OT Morgan Moses available via trade

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

I love OTC, but their estimate appears to have been projected before the Jets traded up for AVT. Take a look at @Lith's post above. The pool is expected to be over $12M with that trade, or about $2.5M more than OTC suggested. 

That leaves the remaining cap space in the $12M range. I really cannot envision Joe Douglas trading away future draft assets for a 30-year-old OT that would drop that cap number down to $4.5M or so. That's probably about the bare minimum of cap space he'd be looking to carry into the season to allow himself to maneuver before the trade deadline. That aside, trading future rookies for 30-somethings is the polar opposite of how Joe Douglas appears to be looking to build this team. 

I can certainly appreciate the fact that you're looking to spend just to spend and throw money at the team's problems, but that argument would hold a lot more water if cap space didn't carry over from one year to the next. They're at least okay at RT with Fant there. This is a foundational year where we hopefully see the team move from very bad to mediocre. Rookie coaching staff working with the team for the first time. I'd much prefer to roll that cap space forward when the whole organization has a clearer picture of what they have and what they need, and to spend that money trying to get from mediocre to good, rather than burning it this year along with a 2022 draft pick. 

Regarding the bolded: you're entitled to your opinion but not to mine. All I said was there's not a cap reason why we can't get this guy if JD wants him.

[slats]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Regarding the bolded: you're entitled to your opinion but not to mine. All I said was there's not a cap reason why we can't get this guy if JD wants him.

Yeah, and I said there is. 

[jgb]

Just now, slats said:

Yeah, and I said there is. 

Then JD sucks at his job if he can't figure out to fit in $7.5M for a guy he likes, if he does (and there is no indication he does).

[jamesr]

17 hours ago, David Harris said:

"I think I need to be more physical with my hands in the offseason,"

This is a common thought amongst posters on JN too.  

[slats]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Then JD sucks at his job if he can't figure out to fit in $7.5M for a guy he likes, if he does (and there is no indication he does).

I posted in this thread because I was talking specifically about trading future draft assets for the right to pay $7.5M for a 30-year-old OT. That's a bad idea, and I don't see Joe Douglas doing that. 

But let's not pretend that you haven't been bitching and moaning about how much cap space the Jets have, and questioning why they're not spending it. There are very good reasons not to spend that money. I highlighted a couple of them in the post you dismissed. 

[jgb]

Just now, slats said:

I posted in this thread because I was talking specifically about trading future draft assets for the right to pay $7.5M for a 30-year-old OT. That's a bad idea, and I don't see Joe Douglas doing that. 

But let's not pretend that you haven't been bitching and moaning about how much cap space the Jets have, and questioning why they're not spending it. There are very good reasons not to spend that money. I highlighted a couple of them in the post you dismissed. 

k

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, jamesr said:

This is a common thought amongst posters on JN too.  

I think single people have done enough "individual drills" during the pandemic.

[jamesr]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

I think single people have done enough "individual drills" during the pandemic.

I still think back to the times where two-a-days were par for the course.  

[jgb]

1 minute ago, jamesr said:

I still think back to the times where two-a-days were par for the course.  

All palm, no break

 

[Larz]

17 hours ago, David Harris said:

We're sticking with Fant.  I think JD and the staff like him but this will be a big year for him. 

 

Jets' George Fant Proves He Belongs as NFL Starter in 2020

Took Second-Most Snaps on Team; Believes in GM Joe Douglas’ Vision

Jan 13, 2021 at 09:00 AM

 

Ethan Greenberg

Team Reporter

 

•  
•  
•  
•  

 

 

Jets' RT George Fant believes his 2020 season, his first with the team and his first entrenched as a starter, could be a launching pad for his career.

"I proved to myself and I feel like I proved to everybody else that I deserve to be in the league, deserve to be a starter in this league and that I could play at a high level consistently," he said. "There are more things I want to work on, but I feel like that's the No. 1 thing. I needed that for myself, the confidence in myself and hopefully put that confidence in the team as well."

Fant was the first player to agree to terms with the Jets in free agency in 2019, which was General Manager Joe Douglas' first full offseason with the Green & White. Fant spent the first four seasons of his career with the Seahawks as their swing tackle. He took 664 snaps as an undrafted rookie in 2016 (10 starts) which was the most playing time he received until he joined the Jets. He started 14 games this past season (12 at RT, 2 at LT) and took 829 snaps which was the second-most on the team behind C Connor McGovern.

"It means a lot," he said. "I proved a lot to myself. Coming in next year, this was the best thing for me. Being able to look back on this season and see what I accomplished this year, it's going to a huge confidence boost for me."

He added: "I think my ceiling is pretty high There's a lot I can do. There's a lot of things I really want to work on this offseason. I've already been talking to people getting ready to work on things."

 

 

George Fant: Proved to Myself That I Can Play at a High Level Consistently



 

While speaking to the media, Fant was itching to get back into the lab to work on his craft.

"I think I need to be more physical with my hands in the offseason," he said. "That's the No. 1 thing. Transitioning to the right side, I don't think a lot of people understand the transition. It has a lot to do with feet, hands and timing. Once I kind of got that down toward the end of the season, that's the No. 1 thing I want to work on. I want to get stronger and things like that as well."

Fant, who was voted team captain by his teammates in his first season with the Green & White, comes from a winning culture in Seattle. The Seahawks went 40-23-1 in his four seasons in the Pacific Northwest, and clinched three playoff berths. Their worst record was 9-7. Fant is excited to be a part of the Jets' turnaround because he's encouraged by the foundation Douglas has built.

"I like a lot about it," he said. "I tell people all the time that this place has a lot of tools, a lot of good young guys. They just need to be developed. There's a lot of potential here and I'm really excited for a lot of these young guys to hit this offseason, to put in the work and get ready for the next step next season."

Yes agree. You’re always looking to improve depth but I don’t see a big move or investment beyond fant this year 

[BettyBoop]

Just fit Steve Nelson into the cap and we’re good to go.

[Lith]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I love OTC, but their estimate appears to have been projected before the Jets traded up for AVT. Take a look at @Lith's post above. The pool is expected to be over $12M with that trade, or about $2.5M more than OTC suggested. 

That leaves the remaining cap space in the $12M range. I really cannot envision Joe Douglas trading away future draft assets for a 30-year-old OT that would drop that cap number down to $4.5M or so. That's probably about the bare minimum of cap space he'd be looking to carry into the season to allow himself to maneuver before the trade deadline. That aside, trading future rookies for 30-somethings is the polar opposite of how Joe Douglas appears to be looking to build this team. 

I can certainly appreciate the fact that you're looking to spend just to spend and throw money at the team's problems, but that argument would hold a lot more water if cap space didn't carry over from one year to the next. They're at least okay at RT with Fant there. This is a foundational year where we hopefully see the team move from very bad to mediocre. Rookie coaching staff working with the team for the first time. I'd much prefer to roll that cap space forward when the whole organization has a clearer picture of what they have and what they need, and to spend that money trying to get from mediocre to good, rather than burning it this year along with a 2022 draft pick. 

If JD wanted Moses, I don't think cap would stop him.  We can free up $5M by releasing Alex Lewis, which would fund much of Moses salary.  The major issue to me is fit.  Moses is a big mauling type man blocker who, imo, lacks the athleticism to play in our zone scheme.  Following are athleticism scores for Moses and the rest of our projected starting OL (from relativeathleticscores.com 

• Becton:  9.85
• AVT 9.80
• Mcgovern: 9.76
• Van Roten: 9.31 // Lewis 7.26 // Feeney 7.72
• Fant: 9.48 
• Moses: 2.15

One of these is not like the others.  Moses may be a better OL than Fant, if trying to neutralize his guy in man blocking.  But i don't see him as a fit with his athletic profile within the OL this team is trying to build.  

[Sperm Edwards]

Another thing that’s being overlooked is the value of consistency on the line. On a purely individual basis, say for the sake of argument it’s a given that Moses > Fant as a RT. That doesn’t therefore mean the line gets better with that swap. 

I think one of the hardest things to overcome on last year’s line, since most or all these guys were at least average before 2020, is how many new faces there were. The only returning starter was Lewis, making all 5 strangers to one another.

They’ve already all but cemented AVT as a starter this year, so there’s one new starter. It’s possible the other guard spot goes to last year’s LG; not a new face per se, but kinda somewhat as he’ll now be playing to McGovern’s right instead. Never mind the possibility that Feeney may win the RG job, which would make 2 new starters at the guards.

Swapping Fant out could then make it 3 new OL starters a year after seeing the disatrous early results of fielding 4 new OL starters. That’s just a bad idea that incorrectly presumes these guys each perform in a vacuum. Particularly when they’re chiefly going to be zone blocking not each one simply latching onto the man in front of him. 

[Biggs]

16 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Another thing that’s being overlooked is the value of consistency on the line. On a purely individual basis, say for the sake of argument it’s a given that Moses > Fant as a RT. That doesn’t therefore mean the line gets better with that swap. 

I think one of the hardest things to overcome on last year’s line, since most or all these guys were at least average before 2020, is how many new faces there were. The only returning starter was Lewis, making all 5 strangers to one another.

They’ve already all but cemented AVT as a starter this year, so there’s one new starter. It’s possible the other guard spot goes to last year’s LG; not a new face per se, but kinda somewhat as he’ll now be playing to McGovern’s right instead. Never mind the possibility that Feeney may win the RG job, which would make 2 new starters at the guards.

Swapping Fant out could then make it 3 new OL starters a year after seeing the disatrous early results of fielding 4 new OL starters. That’s just a bad idea that incorrectly presumes these guys each perform in a vacuum. Particularly when they’re chiefly going to be zone blocking not each one simply latching onto the man in front of him. 

Much less relevant with a new scheme and coaching staff.  The time to improve the caliber of the player is now if you're looking to developing long term continuity.  

[Sperm Edwards]

46 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Much less relevant with a new scheme and coaching staff.  The time to improve the caliber of the player is now if you're looking to developing long term continuity.  

Fine to disagree, but honestly I think the exact opposite is beneficial.

The new scheme is new enough for one summer/season. Any amount of continuity is helpful. Besides, they were doing plenty of zone blocking last year, though this year there should be more outside zone it's not the difference to switching over from mostly (let alone almost exclusively) manning up. 

This "off like a bandaid"/"get it all out of the way on day one" type idea may sound more efficient on paper, but in practice every new thing a team adds all at once is another setback. The fewer people on the line we need to turn over, the better. It'd be one thing if the current personnel was a total ill-fit (e.g. James Carpenter in zone), or expecting individual holdovers to not buy in to a new scheme so they need to go, but neither is the case here. 

[Biggs]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

Fine to disagree, but honestly I think the exact opposite is beneficial.

The new scheme is new enough for one summer/season. Any amount of continuity is helpful. Besides, they were doing plenty of zone blocking last year, though this year there should be more outside zone it's not the difference to switching over from mostly (let alone almost exclusively) manning up. 

This "off like a bandaid"/"get it all out of the way on day one" type idea may sound more efficient on paper, but in practice every new thing a team adds all at once is another setback. The fewer people on the line we need to turn over, the better. It'd be one thing if the current personnel was a total ill-fit (e.g. James Carpenter in zone), but that's not the case here. 

On a 2 and 14 the more the roster is turned over the better.  Were not talking about bringing in an inexperienced rookie.  We are talking about upgrading a veteran on day 1 with a new scheme and coaching staff.  

The Jets need better players, better coaching, rinse repeat until we have a very good team.  

[Sperm Edwards]

21 minutes ago, Biggs said:

On a 2 and 14 the more the roster is turned over the better.  Were not talking about bringing in an inexperienced rookie.  We are talking about upgrading a veteran on day 1 with a new scheme and coaching staff.  

The Jets need better players, better coaching, rinse repeat until we have a very good team.  

Yeah I'm saying I don't agree. There's a blind presumption that because the team finished 2-14, that everything must be turned over. That was the rationale when they turned over 4 OL starters a year ago, to the applause of most here, with that same over-simplified rationale that it couldn't get any worse so therefore any change is welcomed. It isn't so, particularly a unit that plays as a group more than individually like a zb OL. 

See who the new coaches want & don't want anymore first, before just cutting for the sake of cutting. There is such a thing as a player - in fact, multiple players - who'll perform in one scheme (or for one coach) and doesn't perform in another. 

[Biggs]

23 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah I'm saying I don't agree. There's a blind presumption that because the team finished 2-14, that everything must be turned over. That was the rationale when they turned over 4 OL starters a year ago, to the applause of most here, with that same over-simplified rationale that it couldn't get any worse so therefore any change is welcomed. It isn't so, particularly a unit that plays as a group more than individually like a zb OL. 

See who the new coaches want & don't want anymore first, before just cutting for the sake of cutting. There is such a thing as a player - in fact, multiple players - who'll perform in one scheme (or for one coach) and doesn't perform in another. 

Who said anyting about not doing an evaluation?  Obviousy trade means you're giving up something of value.  Generally speaking if you can upgrade a position without giving up equal or better talent and you have cap room because you're roster isn't very good and you've paired off enough dead cap space you should upgrade the talent.  

Last year we had a young team, a bad coaching staff and there was a pandemic with lock outs, no pre-seasons, limited practice, etc., etc., etc.   What happened last year.  We won 2 games instead of 4 or 5.  We upgraded the coaching staff and we were in position to draft the QB we wanted instead of someone's sloppy seconds.   We almost won the Lawrence sweepstakes.  

In retrospect the rationale for lossing 4 starters was wrong but the outcome was even better. 

[jetspenguin]

Don't need him..

Wait on N.O. to make their moves and see who shakes loose...

Sent from the NY Jets Draft Suicide Watch desk.

[Alka]

19 hours ago, jgb said:

WE have $25M cap remaining. 3rd most in the league. Why not both??

Exactly what I'm thinking.  Then maybe we can cut or trade Edoga, who hasn't been consistent since he's been on the Jets.

[MichaelScott]

21 hours ago, David Harris said:

We're sticking with Fant.  I think JD and the staff like him but this will be a big year for him. 

 

Jets' George Fant Proves He Belongs as NFL Starter in 2020

Took Second-Most Snaps on Team; Believes in GM Joe Douglas’ Vision

Jan 13, 2021 at 09:00 AM

 

Ethan Greenberg

Team Reporter

 

•  
•  
•  
•  

 

 

Jets' RT George Fant believes his 2020 season, his first with the team and his first entrenched as a starter, could be a launching pad for his career.

"I proved to myself and I feel like I proved to everybody else that I deserve to be in the league, deserve to be a starter in this league and that I could play at a high level consistently," he said. "There are more things I want to work on, but I feel like that's the No. 1 thing. I needed that for myself, the confidence in myself and hopefully put that confidence in the team as well."

Fant was the first player to agree to terms with the Jets in free agency in 2019, which was General Manager Joe Douglas' first full offseason with the Green & White. Fant spent the first four seasons of his career with the Seahawks as their swing tackle. He took 664 snaps as an undrafted rookie in 2016 (10 starts) which was the most playing time he received until he joined the Jets. He started 14 games this past season (12 at RT, 2 at LT) and took 829 snaps which was the second-most on the team behind C Connor McGovern.

"It means a lot," he said. "I proved a lot to myself. Coming in next year, this was the best thing for me. Being able to look back on this season and see what I accomplished this year, it's going to a huge confidence boost for me."

He added: "I think my ceiling is pretty high There's a lot I can do. There's a lot of things I really want to work on this offseason. I've already been talking to people getting ready to work on things."

 

 

George Fant: Proved to Myself That I Can Play at a High Level Consistently



 

While speaking to the media, Fant was itching to get back into the lab to work on his craft.

"I think I need to be more physical with my hands in the offseason," he said. "That's the No. 1 thing. Transitioning to the right side, I don't think a lot of people understand the transition. It has a lot to do with feet, hands and timing. Once I kind of got that down toward the end of the season, that's the No. 1 thing I want to work on. I want to get stronger and things like that as well."

Fant, who was voted team captain by his teammates in his first season with the Green & White, comes from a winning culture in Seattle. The Seahawks went 40-23-1 in his four seasons in the Pacific Northwest, and clinched three playoff berths. Their worst record was 9-7. Fant is excited to be a part of the Jets' turnaround because he's encouraged by the foundation Douglas has built.

"I like a lot about it," he said. "I tell people all the time that this place has a lot of tools, a lot of good young guys. They just need to be developed. There's a lot of potential here and I'm really excited for a lot of these young guys to hit this offseason, to put in the work and get ready for the next step next season."

??????

I didn't want to downvote the post, I'm down voting this articlr every word Fant said. 

Fant did not play good. 

"I proved I can play in this league"

"My ceiling is high" ?!

Gtfo. You're a 28-29 year old vet. You're time to be proving you can play in the league was a couple years ago. What you proved is that you're a JAG. 

Ceiling? Again, you're past that point. This guy sounds like an UDFA that made the team last year. You were mediocre in your chances to start in Seattle, JD certainly gave you a contract hoping you had not reached your ceiling and you fell short of it. You proved you're a Jag in this league and the team still needs to upgrade this position. 

[David Harris]

49 minutes ago, MichaelScott said:

??????

I didn't want to downvote the post, I'm down voting this articlr every word Fant said. 

Fant did not play good. 

"I proved I can play in this league"

"My ceiling is high" ?!

Gtfo. You're a 28-29 year old vet. You're time to be proving you can play in the league was a couple years ago. What you proved is that you're a JAG. 

Ceiling? Again, you're past that point. This guy sounds like an UDFA that made the team last year. You were mediocre in your chances to start in Seattle, JD certainly gave you a contract hoping you had not reached your ceiling and you fell short of it. You proved you're a Jag in this league and the team still needs to upgrade this position. 

I appreciate you protecting my rep while disagreeing the article ? 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Who said anyting about not doing an evaluation?  Obviousy trade means you're giving up something of value.  Generally speaking if you can upgrade a position without giving up equal or better talent and you have cap room because you're roster isn't very good and you've paired off enough dead cap space you should upgrade the talent.  

Last year we had a young team, a bad coaching staff and there was a pandemic with lock outs, no pre-seasons, limited practice, etc., etc., etc.   What happened last year.  We won 2 games instead of 4 or 5.  We upgraded the coaching staff and we were in position to draft the QB we wanted instead of someone's sloppy seconds.   We almost won the Lawrence sweepstakes.  

In retrospect the rationale for lossing 4 starters was wrong but the outcome was even better. 

How do you know the team badly needs an upgrade there, let alone that Moses would even be such an upgrade? Nobody trades for an $8MM starting RT and then merely evaluates whether or not he'd be an upgrade. You make that trade then (absent injury) he's starting, plain and simple. 

All that stuff you listed from last year doesn't therefore mean everyone was a terrible player in bad need of jettisoning. The "Oh we woulda only won 4-5 games max" by pure talent alone isn't a premise I agree with. Such limited time together over the summer has a more disparate effect on a team with that much turnover than on other teams. So just as 2-3 of the returning OL starters are getting used to playing alongside each other, let's disrupt most of that group yet again and expect different results this time?

I don't think the personnel is elite 5-across, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. 

For example, the difference between a super bowl caliber OL and a trash OL on the Chiefs wasn't 5 players. It was closer to 1-2 players. The middle 3 on their OL was between mediocre and lousy even when they had both starting tackles in there. Then they lost Schwartz like week 6 or something, and Fisher at the end of the championship game. But if you didn't know any better, just looking at those two backup tackles, you'd think the team was in need of 5 new offensive linemen. Reid isn't blind to his players' abilities; surely he realizes that too much change, even if you're theoretically improving the personnel individually, can have the opposite effect as a group. 

Further selectively take away just a handful of starters (not even considering injuries on many of the rest of them) and any playoff team can look like a 2-5 win team. The Jets needed plenty of help, but they didn't need 20 replacement starters.

Continuity on a zbl isn't just a fluff concept used by those who are too benighted to see that better talent players = better performing players = better offense = better team = more wins. 

 

[Biggs]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

How do you know the team badly needs an upgrade there, let alone that Moses would even be such an upgrade? Nobody trades for an $8MM starting RT and then merely evaluates whether or not he'd be an upgrade. You make that trade then (absent injury) he's starting, plain and simple. 

All that stuff you listed from last year doesn't therefore mean everyone was a terrible player in bad need of jettisoning. The "Oh we woulda only won 4-5 games max" by pure talent alone isn't a premise I agree with. Such limited time together over the summer has a more disparate effect on a team with that much turnover than on other teams. So just as 2-3 of the returning OL starters are getting used to playing alongside each other, let's disrupt most of that group yet again and expect different results this time?

I don't think the personnel is elite 5-across, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as people are making it out to be. 

For example, the difference between a super bowl caliber OL and a trash OL on the Chiefs wasn't 5 players. It was closer to 1-2 players. The middle 3 on their OL was between mediocre and lousy even when they had both starting tackles in there. Then they lost Schwartz like week 6 or something, and Fisher at the end of the championship game. But if you didn't know any better, just looking at those two backup tackles, you'd think the team was in need of 5 new offensive linemen. Reid isn't blind to his players' abilities; surely he realizes that too much change, even if you're theoretically improving the personnel individually, can have the opposite effect as a group. 

Further selectively take away just a handful of starters (not even considering injuries on many of the rest of them) and any playoff team can look like a 2-5 win team. The Jets needed plenty of help, but they didn't need 20 replacement starters.

Continuity on a zbl isn't just a fluff concept used by those who are too benighted to see that better talent players = better performing players = better offense = better team = more wins. 

 

The Chiefs replaced 3 starters from last year already.   If you think last years roster was better than 4 or 5 wins there's no longer any point in having this conversation.  

Douglas traded our best player and unloaded players knowing full well last year was the big tear down.   Take a look at what this team did last offseason and this offseason.  

It's not about what you or I think.  It's about Douglas and the coaching staff.  Everything Douglas did last year and this points to him thinking we had a crappy losing roster in 2020 that needed a huge overhaul.  

I would be very surprised if Douglas doesn't bring someone else in to compete for a job on the right side of the line.

[Jetsfan80]

22 hours ago, HawkeyeJet said:

OL evaluation seems to have the least common consensus from fans of any position.  I don't think I know more than anyone else, but I personally think Fant is probably the most underappreciated player on the Jets roster.  

I think he's generally a good player.  Not great or elite by any stretch, but if he's the weakest link on your OL, you are in terrific shape.  He's a "quality starter" in my opinion.  Lots of folks think he's below average.  Not saying I'm right, just find it interesting as I think the views swing a lot more for OL then other positions.

It's because Sam Darnold sucked but there are still people here who actually think "NO QB COULD SUCCEED WITH THIS TALENT."  Ignoring of course that the corpse of Joe Flacco, in fact, had a modicum of success with this talent, including the Offensive Line.

Things will look much better across the offense with competent QB play.  Suddenly we'll find gems that many didn't think we had.  

[jgb]

16 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's because Sam Darnold sucked but there are still people here who actually think "NO QB COULD SUCCEED WITH THIS TALENT."  Ignoring of course that the corpse of Joe Flacco, in fact, had a modicum of success with this talent, including the Offensive Line.

Things will look much better across the offense with competent QB play.  Suddenly we'll find gems that many didn't think we had.  

Completely agree. If skill players are "weaponzz", then the QB is the bullets. No gun looks dangerous shooting these:

[slats]

23 hours ago, Lith said:

If JD wanted Moses, I don't think cap would stop him.  We can free up $5M by releasing Alex Lewis, which would fund much of Moses salary.  The major issue to me is fit.  Moses is a big mauling type man blocker who, imo, lacks the athleticism to play in our zone scheme.  Following are athleticism scores for Moses and the rest of our projected starting OL (from relativeathleticscores.com 

• Becton:  9.85
• AVT 9.80
• Mcgovern: 9.76
• Van Roten: 9.31 // Lewis 7.26 // Feeney 7.72
• Fant: 9.48 
• Moses: 2.15

One of these is not like the others.  Moses may be a better OL than Fant, if trying to neutralize his guy in man blocking.  But i don't see him as a fit with his athletic profile within the OL this team is trying to build.  

I don't think the cap would stop him, I do think the cap and the draft pick cost are part of the reason that he's not interested in the player, though. 

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

The Chiefs replaced 3 starters from last year already.   If you think last years roster was better than 4 or 5 wins there's no longer any point in having this conversation.  

Douglas traded our best player and unloaded players knowing full well last year was the big tear down.   Take a look at what this team did last offseason and this offseason.  

It's not about what you or I think.  It's about Douglas and the coaching staff.  Everything Douglas did last year and this points to him thinking we had a crappy losing roster in 2020 that needed a huge overhaul.  

I would be very surprised if Douglas doesn't bring someone else in to compete for a job on the right side of the line.

The Chiefs replaced 3 starters because two were injured. Otherwise it'd have been just one, at guard, and we haven't yet seen positive results of it (compared to their prior line, not the SB line with 3 marginal iOL starters and 2 backup tackles). 

And if you think that Adam Gase and so many starter injuries (and a major opt-out) had no part in that roster - that absent a couple unlucky breaks Gase & Williams more or less got the most out of that planned opening day roster - then we can agree to disagree. Never mind the ridiculous idea that he was tanking well in advance of a year he needed to see what he had in Darnold. 

Unloaded players in the 2020 offseason for a tear-down? What are you even talking about?

• Douglas traded Adams - in late July - because the player had been intimating he wanted upwards of (if not in excess of) $20MM/year by claiming he deserved to be paid like a top 5 defender. I'm not Douglas's biggest booster but that's the only player he outright unloaded before the season, it came months after the FA/draft periods, and only a great fool would have preferred Adams under those circumstances. Luckily Seattle had two such fools.
• He unloaded Bell in October, after missing 4 of 6 games (and looking like crap in both when he was there) and no one else wanted Bell at that price either. 
• The rest were FAs, and I'm struggling to see which 2020 OL FAs lost that you feel were particularly missed. Becton + McGovern + GVR + Fant were universally considered upgrades to Beachum + Harrison + Winters + Shell. So again, the idea that this was a tank effort is just ridiculous. 
• He made an offer to Anderson - not as good as Carolina's offer, but it wasn't like it was off by $4MM/year - and Anderson chose to sign with Carolina instead, after which he took the next-best rated WR available in Perriman. That's poor judgment but it's not unloading a player.

Also his best prior player was Mosley, not Adams. Mosley opted out of the season a solid week after Adams was traded, not before. In addition to Mosley opting out of the season - something Douglas couldn't have known about during free agency or the draft - then there were 6-8 missed games, to outright full-season injuries, to a number of starters & hopeful starters. Mims, Hall, Zuniga, Perine, Davis, and Clark; plus Onwuasor, Austin, Lewis, McDougald, Poole; and major setbacks & letdowns in play from prior performers like Williamson, and honestly McDougald was way worse than expected, even if one expected a downgrade from Adams.

As to your last remark, I'd be doubly surprised if Douglas did bring in someone else to compete for a job on the right side of the line. You're surprised if he doesn't? I doubt there's a 1 in 10 chance he does, barring injuries of course. If he wanted to move on from Fant he wouldn't have doubled down on him by letting his 2021 guarantee kick in. 

I've got no problem with you disagreeing with me; it's all good. But you're wrong about literally all of this. ?   

[jgb]

12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The Chiefs replaced 3 starters because two were injured. Otherwise it'd have been just one, at guard, and we haven't yet seen positive results of it (compared to their prior line, not the SB line with 3 marginal iOL starters and 2 backup tackles). 

And if you think that Adam Gase and so many starter injuries (and a major opt-out) had no part in that roster - that absent a couple unlucky breaks Gase & Williams more or less got the most out of that planned opening day roster - then we can agree to disagree. Never mind the ridiculous idea that he was tanking well in advance of a year he needed to see what he had in Darnold. 

Unloaded players in the 2020 offseason for a tear-down? What are you even talking about?

• Douglas traded Adams - in late July - because the player had been intimating he wanted upwards of (if not in excess of) $20MM/year by claiming he deserved to be paid like a top 5 defender. I'm not Douglas's biggest booster but that's the only player he outright unloaded before the season, it came months after the FA/draft periods, and only a great fool would have preferred Adams under those circumstances. Luckily Seattle had two such fools.
• He unloaded Bell in October, after missing 4 of 6 games (and looking like crap in both when he was there) and no one else wanted Bell at that price either. 
• The rest were FAs, and I'm struggling to see which 2020 OL FAs lost that you feel were particularly missed. Becton + McGovern + GVR + Fant were universally considered upgrades to Beachum + Harrison + Winters + Shell. So again, the idea that this was a tank effort is just ridiculous. 
• He made an offer to Anderson - not as good as Carolina's offer, but it wasn't like it was off by $4MM/year - and Anderson chose to sign with Carolina instead, after which he took the next-best rated WR available in Perriman. That's poor judgment but it's not unloading a player.

Also his best prior player was Mosley, not Adams. Mosley opted out of the season a solid week after Adams was traded, not before. In addition to Mosley opting out of the season - something Douglas couldn't have known about during free agency or the draft - then there were 6-8 missed games, to outright full-season injuries, to a number of starters & hopeful starters. Mims, Hall, Zuniga, Perine, Davis, and Clark; plus Onwuasor, Austin, Lewis, McDougald, Poole; and major setbacks & letdowns in play from prior performers like Williamson, and honestly McDougald was way worse than expected, even if one expected a downgrade from Adams.

As to your last remark, I'd be doubly surprised if Douglas did bring in someone else to compete for a job on the right side of the line. You're surprised if he doesn't? I doubt there's a 1 in 10 chance he does, barring injuries of course. If he wanted to move on from Fant he wouldn't have doubled down on him by letting his 2021 guarantee kick in. 

I've got no problem with you disagreeing with me; it's all good. But you're wrong about literally all of this. ?   

gotta remember to stay off your bad side

[Biggs]

Slats the cap space this year is artificially low.  Douglas is likely to consider the contract cost on a multi year level.  I agree giving up picks is a much bigger deal.

The Jets have players they can cut or renegotiate  with.  We’re in a pretty good position to make a couple of big moves if Douglas wants to pull the trigger.   The low cap this year may play to our advantage when teams start cutting their rosters.  I think Douglas will upgrade the right side of the line but not through trade unless we’re swapping second day picks.   A lot of decent vets are going to be cut.  

[jgb]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I don't think the cap would stop him, I do think the cap and the draft pick cost are part of the reason that he's not interested in the player, though. 

How to get slats to agree with me -- have someone else say the same thing  

[Lith]

 

[rangerous]

there doesn't appear to be much wrong in keeping fant at rt.  he played well enough.  i hate to sound like a broken record but what they need to do is set the starting lineup and then do as much as they can to get this oline working together.  once it's set they can feed replacement guys in during the season to handle the inevitable injuries and such.  they have enough oline players to head into camp and get the job done.  if there is a good player coming free then maybe they can look and they have enough money to sign someone that breaks free.  good place to be in.

[flgreen]

Washington releases Morgan Moses: Steelers among the five best team fits for the veteran right tackle

Moses likely won't be out of work for long

 

By Bryan DeArdo

 

33 mins ago2 min read

G Fiume/Getty Images

After reportedly getting permission to seek a trade, veteran offensive lineman Morgan Moses has instead been released by the Washington Football Team. Washington's starting right tackle since 2015, Moses was deemed expendable after the Football Team acquired several new offensive tackles -- including second-round pick Samuel Cosmi -- over the past month. Moses' 2021 salary (he was slated to make $7.75) likely limited Washington's options via a trade. 

While he will come at a considerable price, Moses should generate healthy interest on the open market. A third-round pick in the 2014 draft, the 30-year-old Moses has not missed a game since his rookie season. Last season, the 6-foot-6, 330-pound Moses was tabbed as Pro Football Focus' sixth-ranked offensive tackle. His play last season helped Washington capture its first division title since 2015. 

Despite the recently-concluded NFL draft, there are more than a few teams that are still in need of reinforcements on the offensive line. Given their needs up front, here are five teams that may be in the running to land Moses. 

Pittsburgh Steelers 

The Steelers could certainly use Moses after losing Matt Feiler in free agency. Pittsburgh likes Zach Banner, but Banner is coming off of an injury that sidelined him for just about all of the 2020 season. Moses would add much-needed depth to a Steelers' offensive line that is lacking at the tackle position. 

Cincinnati Bengals

Cincinnati's top objective this year is protecting Joe Burrow, whose rookie season was off to a record-setting start before the former No. 1 overall pick went down with a season-ending injury in Week 10. While they did acquire Riley Reiff this offseason along with rookie Jackson Carman and D'Ante Smith, the Bengals could still use some reinforcements on the offensive line. Adding Moses would allow Reiff to move from right to left tackle, his predominant position during the first nine years of his career. Moses and Reiff are quality veterans who should be able to provide significantly better protection for Burrow in 2021. 

Arizona Cardinals 

Moses would be an upgrade at right tackle over the team's current projected starter, Kelvin Beachum, who has spent the majority of his career at left tackle. Moses would surely help the Cardinals provide better protection for Kyler Murray, whose injury late in the 2020 season contributed to Arizona missing the playoffs for a fifth consecutive year. 

New York Jets 

Speaking of young quarterbacks, Moses could be summoned to New York to help protect Zach Wilson, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2021 draft. Moses could also serve as a mentor for fellow offensive tackle Mekhi Becton and guard Alijah Vera-Tucker, who was selected by the Jets with the 14th overall pick. 

Baltimore Ravens 

While the Alejandro Villanueva signing helps, the Ravens could use more depth on the offensive line after losing Orlando Brown Jr. Best case, Moses would challenge Villanueva for the Ravens' starting right tackle spot. Worst case, he adds quality depth to a Ravens team that relies heavily on their offensive line. 

[Barton]

I dont want to hear about a zone scheme nonsense. Fant cant run block vs a damn tight end. Get a real right tackle on this team and watch what happens.