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Corey Davis 2nd smartest WR 2017 Combine, naturally we drafted a dope (Chad Hansen)


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The wonderlic asks stuff like "Which day of the week starts with a 'w'".  All it tells you is whether or not the guy taking it bothered to read the questions before choosing an answer.

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17 minutes ago, AFJF said:

The wonderlic asks stuff like "Which day of the week starts with a 'w'".  All it tells you is whether or not the guy taking it bothered to read the questions before choosing an answer.

I've taken a practice Wonderlic for the hell of it before.  While there are indeed questions like these on there, there is also a mixture of logic-based questions that are more difficult.  I did well when I took it but not perfect.  Probably missed like 6-8 questions, I would guess.

I don't know how much use/value it has, but its not exactly "50 questions for meatheads" like you're making it seem.  

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1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I've taken a practice Wonderlic for the hell of it before.  While there are indeed questions like these on there, there is also a mixture of logic-based questions that are more difficult.  I did well when I took it but not perfect.  Probably missed like 6-8 questions, I would guess.

I don't know how much use/value it has, but its not exactly "50 questions for meatheads" like you're making it seem.  

Regardless of degree of meatheadedness needed to do well on the wonderlic, nobody is passing on a player who has legit skills and production on the football field because of how he did on the wonderlic.  Dexter Manley couldn't read and he did alright.  Frank Gore got a 6 on the wonderlic.  Morris Claiborne got a 4 and a team traded up to get him.

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32 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Regardless of degree of meatheadedness needed to do well on the wonderlic, nobody is passing on a player who has legit skills and production on the football field because of how he did on the wonderlic.  Dexter Manley couldn't read and he did alright.  Frank Gore got a 6 on the wonderlic.  Morris Claiborne got a 4 and a team traded up to get him.

Guys like Deion sanders blew these tests off because he knew he was going high, but

let us know how you did 

 

https://footballiqscore.com/

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45 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Regardless of degree of meatheadedness needed to do well on the wonderlic, nobody is passing on a player who has legit skills and production on the football field because of how he did on the wonderlic.  Dexter Manley couldn't read and he did alright.  Frank Gore got a 6 on the wonderlic.  Morris Claiborne got a 4 and a team traded up to get him.


I don’t disagree with this.  Like I said, I have no idea whether the Wonderlic has any predictive use for the NFL, and if it does, I have no idea how.

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54 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:


I don’t disagree with this.  Like I said, I have no idea whether the Wonderlic has any predictive use for the NFL, and if it does, I have no idea how.

Non-morons better than morons but like all things it's only one piece of the puzzle. 

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11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:


I don’t disagree with this.  Like I said, I have no idea whether the Wonderlic has any predictive use for the NFL, and if it does, I have no idea how.

If everyone cared - or cared enough - the average score would be higher. The best training to take it, off the bat, probably isn’t even getting tutored briefly in practicing the type of questions they ask. Rather, it’s knowing when to skip one because - even if you’re able to figure out or calculate the answer correctly - it’s not worth it on a timed test where each correct answer is worth the same. 

It explains how some reputedly brainy QBs - e.g. Peyton Manning, or whomever - only got such mediocre scores. Some can’t accept the “defeat” of not getting any/every question right & stay on it too long. His score was a meh 28, but for all we know he didn’t get any wrong, and merely took so much time on a couple questions that he never even saw the last 22 questions. So did he get 20 wrong, or did he not even see 20 questions, with some of those he never saw of the, “What day of the week begins with w?” variety? 

If the Qs were nothing but 5 (or even 10) second & lower questions (even if some fast-answer ones weren’t fast because they’re stupidly easy), then I think it’d translate to the field better. What problem-solving endeavor does one face on a football field where you’re still successful if you “solve” the problem in 30-60 seconds? On the field it’s not merely about whether he can figure out what he’s seeing; it’s whether he can see it quickly. e.g QBs have a few seconds standing at the line to diagnose what the D is doing, so it’s not all the 2-3 seconds after the ball’s snapped, but if he needed 60 seconds it’s as valuable as if he needed 60 hours — or if he couldn’t even solve it if given 60 years. 

If the prospects all were trained to have a 10-second timer internally for this test, to answer or admit defeat for every question, I’m sure the average score would jump by at least 5 points - maybe 10 - even without innately being able to answer one more thing correctly. Or even better, just put all those <5-second questions first, and have them get gradually more difficult, and never bury a quick-answer question in the final 5 that many (and perhaps most) of the test-takers never see before time runs out.

Absent that, it’s a test in test-taking as much as it is a test in intelligence & knowledge. 

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12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:


I don’t disagree with this.  Like I said, I have no idea whether the Wonderlic has any predictive use for the NFL, and if it does, I have no idea how.

Josh Allen had the highest wonderlic score of the top QBs in the 2018 draft with a 37. 

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49 minutes ago, slats said:

Josh Allen had the highest wonderlic score of the top QBs in the 2018 draft with a 37. 

Allen had the highest Wonderlic score of the class, yes. Lamar Jackson got an embarrassingly low 13 and isn’t far behind, if he is at all (despite having the obvious disparity in receiving wepponz in the only year where Allen’s looked better). Jackson is the poster boy for wepponz don’t make the QB: his best target by far - Andrews - was on the field barely half the time in 2020, and less than half the time over their 3 years together; conversely Diggs (considerably more valuable of a target outright) is on the field 90% of the time. Fans complain the Jets didn’t/don’t have a true #1; Jackson hasn’t even had a true #2: he’s had part-time TEs and some #3 WRs.

All other things being equal I’d prefer a QB who scored higher than lower, and don’t think it’s always 100% meaningless, but all other things are rarely equal & I don’t know that the reason for Allen’s success in year 3 is necessarily related to his Wonderlic score. Plus the score doesn’t tell how many Qs were attempted: did LJax get ~35 wrong (unlikely), or did he only get around to attempting ~15 of them because he spent too much time on one or two questions (or is he just a slower reader, or suck at math, and/or did Allen just flat-out prepare for the test more; none of which is of obvious, inherent use to QBing)?

Eli (39) scored way higher than his brother (28). How many people think he was a smarter QB (or if his 2:1 SB ratio is related to which extra 11 Wonderlic questions he answered correctly when each was 22-23)? Greg McElroy certainly wasn’t unable to throw a football, and supposedly got a 48; so much for that. 

If they put all the quick+easy ones at the start of the test, and then gradually added in more in difficulty + time-to-answer order, then I think (while still not flawless, since it assumes equal backgrounds and more) it’d at least be a more reliable test in who’s smarter rather than who’s a better and/or more practiced test taker. 

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18 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Right, but plenty of morons have done well in the pros, even those who play QB.  Dan Marino "famously" scored just a 16.  Perhaps just an outlier?

@nico002 @QB1

Haha. Marino was excellent in other areas. His composite score was high. A less physically-gifted QB probably could not succeed with Marino’s brain.

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If everyone cared - or cared enough - the average score would be higher. The best training to take it, off the bat, probably isn’t even getting tutored briefly in practicing the type of questions they ask. Rather, it’s knowing when to skip one because - even if you’re able to figure out or calculate the answer correctly - it’s not worth it on a timed test where each correct answer is worth the same. 

It explains how some reputedly brainy QBs - e.g. Peyton Manning, or whomever - only got such mediocre scores. Some can’t accept the “defeat” of not getting any/every question right & stay on it too long. His score was a meh 28, but for all we know he didn’t get any wrong, and merely took so much time on a couple questions that he never even saw the last 22 questions. So did he get 20 wrong, or did he not even see 20 questions, with some of those he never saw of the, “What day of the week begins with w?” variety? 

If the Qs were nothing but 5 (or even 10) second & lower questions (even if some fast-answer ones weren’t fast because they’re stupidly easy), then I think it’d translate to the field better. What problem-solving endeavor does one face on a football field where you’re still successful if you “solve” the problem in 30-60 seconds? On the field it’s not merely about whether he can figure out what he’s seeing; it’s whether he can see it quickly. e.g QBs have a few seconds standing at the line to diagnose what the D is doing, so it’s not all the 2-3 seconds after the ball’s snapped, but if he needed 60 seconds it’s as valuable as if he needed 60 hours — or if he couldn’t even solve it if given 60 years. 

If the prospects all were trained to have a 10-second timer internally for this test, to answer or admit defeat for every question, I’m sure the average score would jump by at least 5 points - maybe 10 - even without innately being able to answer one more thing correctly. Or even better, just put all those <5-second questions first, and have them get gradually more difficult, and never bury a quick-answer question in the final 5 that many (and perhaps most) of the test-takers never see before time runs out.

Absent that, it’s a test in test-taking as much as it is a test in intelligence & knowledge. 

Thanks for that, but I was just busting @Jetsfan80's balls. 

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12 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

 

Eli (39) scored way higher than his brother (28). How many people think he was a smarter QB (or if his 2:1 SB ratio is related to which extra 11 Wonderlic questions he answered correctly when each was 22-23)? 

 

You're confusing smarts with work ethic and preparation.  Eli lack of preparation and he's don't give a Sh*t attitude also made him a lot more clutch in big spots.  Peyton may have worked much harder to develop because he wasn't as naturally gifted as Eli either physically or mentally.  Peyton had a high enough score to know that up front. 

If you have a naturally gifted QB who also applies himself it's probably a huge benefit.    In some cases a QB may be so gifted and have such a natural gun slinger attitude being really stupid might benefit them.  See Bret Favre's penis selfie as an example.  

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1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Allen had the highest Wonderlic score of the class, yes. Lamar Jackson got an embarrassingly low 13 and isn’t far behind, if he is at all (despite having the obvious disparity in receiving wepponz in the only year where Allen’s looked better). Jackson is the poster boy for wepponz don’t make the QB: his best target by far - Andrews - was on the field barely half the time in 2020, and less than half the time over their 3 years together; conversely Diggs (considerably more valuable of a target outright) is on the field 90% of the time. Fans complain the Jets didn’t/don’t have a true #1; Jackson hasn’t even had a true #2: he’s had part-time TEs and some #3 WRs.

All other things being equal I’d prefer a QB who scored higher than lower, and don’t think it’s always 100% meaningless, but all other things are rarely equal & I don’t know that the reason for Allen’s success in year 3 is necessarily related to his Wonderlic score. Plus the score doesn’t tell how many Qs were attempted: did LJax get ~35 wrong (unlikely), or did he only get around to attempting ~15 of them because he spent too much time on one or two questions (or is he just a slower reader, or suck at math, and/or did Allen just flat-out prepare for the test more; none of which is of obvious, inherent use to QBing)?

Eli (39) scored way higher than his brother (28). How many people think he was a smarter QB (or if his 2:1 SB ratio is related to which extra 11 Wonderlic questions he answered correctly when each was 22-23)? Greg McElroy certainly wasn’t unable to throw a football, and supposedly got a 48; so much for that. 

If they put all the quick+easy ones at the start of the test, and then gradually added in more in difficulty + time-to-answer order, then I think (while still not flawless, since it assumes equal backgrounds and more) it’d at least be a more reliable test in who’s smarter rather than who’s a better and/or more practiced test taker. 

Sums it up. QBs have to be able to process information heuristically and accept something less than perfection. We've all heard of QBs who are "overthinking" -- these are probably the type of guys who "can't accept defeat" on a question and hit skip.

One observation: on the online one, you must answer something to move on and then cannot come back to the question. I assume when you take in person, "skipping" doesn't have as much as a perceived cost because you can always convince yourself that "I can return at the end if I have time."

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

You're confusing smarts with work ethic and preparation.  Eli lack of preparation and he's don't give a Sh*t attitude also made him a lot more clutch in big spots.  Peyton may have worked much harder to develop because he wasn't as naturally gifted as Eli either physically or mentally.  Peyton had a high enough score to know that up front. 

If you have a naturally gifted QB who also applies himself it's probably a huge benefit.    In some cases a QB may be so gifted and have such a natural gun slinger attitude being really stupid might benefit them.  See Bret Favre's penis selfie as an example.  

Wow you could tell all that from a single test score?

Particularly when one was in a time when there was far less scrutiny placed on the Wonderlic test, explain how you don't know the older brother didn't just get stuck on one question instead of skipping it & moving on. 

You really know not just how many someone got right, but how many he got wrong (as opposed to how many he just didn't get around to answering), and how many practice tests each took (never mind there were more practice ones floating around when the younger one took it)?

Anyway, to derive all that innate intelligence of each person from a single score in a short, 12-minute test, that's pretty impressive. You must have gotten a perfect 50 yourself. Thanks for correcting my "confusion" here.

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22 hours ago, jgb said:

Sums it up. QBs have to be able to process information heuristically and accept something less than perfection. We've all heard of QBs who are "overthinking" -- these are probably the type of guys who "can't accept defeat" on a question and hit skip.

One observation: on the online one, you must answer something to move on and then cannot come back to the question. I assume when you take in person, "skipping" doesn't have as much as a perceived cost because you can always convince yourself that "I can return at the end if I have time."

I don't know what test format is given to the players. The online practice ones/samples may or may not be the same format that are administered to NFL prospects, though it'd be interesting to find out. 

It'd be pretty stupid if there's no option to "skip" a question once things switched to a more electronic, on-screen exam, whereby it goes back to it (and other skipped ones) after reaching the end of the 50 questions, as opposed to forcing someone to submit an answer. 

Fitzpatrick said he knew he didn't get a perfect 50 (before finding out his score) because didn't answer one question. So unless that was literally the 50th & final question I think they have the ability to skip & come back. 

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3 hours ago, jgb said:

Haha. Marino was excellent in other areas. His composite score was high. A less physically-gifted QB probably could not succeed with Marino’s brain.

Lets not forget though... 

Marino had the smarts/instincts...where withall...to come up to the LOS and execute the infamous fake spike play...that broke the Jets.  And me too.  Jets never won another game that season.  Pete Carroll got fired. Replaced by  "deez 'n doez"...that took Jets and us fans on a journey to football Purgatory.  

Not bad for a Wonderlic score of just 16.

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43 minutes ago, GreenReaper said:

Lets not forget though... 

Marino had the smarts/instincts...where withall...to come up to the LOS and execute the infamous fake spike play...that broke the Jets.  And me too.  Jets never won another game that season.  Pete Carroll got fired. Replaced by  "deez 'n doez"...that took Jets and us fans on a journey to football Purgatory.  

Not bad for a Wonderlic score of just 16.

Yep. Plus someone can just have a bad 12 minutes when taking the thing. It's a single data point, nothing more. But that also doesn't make it worthless.

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4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

If everyone cared - or cared enough - the average score would be higher. The best training to take it, off the bat, probably isn’t even getting tutored briefly in practicing the type of questions they ask. Rather, it’s knowing when to skip one because - even if you’re able to figure out or calculate the answer correctly - it’s not worth it on a timed test where each correct answer is worth the same. 

It explains how some reputedly brainy QBs - e.g. Peyton Manning, or whomever - only got such mediocre scores. Some can’t accept the “defeat” of not getting any/every question right & stay on it too long. His score was a meh 28, but for all we know he didn’t get any wrong, and merely took so much time on a couple questions that he never even saw the last 22 questions. So did he get 20 wrong, or did he not even see 20 questions, with some of those he never saw of the, “What day of the week begins with w?” variety? 

If the Qs were nothing but 5 (or even 10) second & lower questions (even if some fast-answer ones weren’t fast because they’re stupidly easy), then I think it’d translate to the field better. What problem-solving endeavor does one face on a football field where you’re still successful if you “solve” the problem in 30-60 seconds? On the field it’s not merely about whether he can figure out what he’s seeing; it’s whether he can see it quickly. e.g QBs have a few seconds standing at the line to diagnose what the D is doing, so it’s not all the 2-3 seconds after the ball’s snapped, but if he needed 60 seconds it’s as valuable as if he needed 60 hours — or if he couldn’t even solve it if given 60 years. 

If the prospects all were trained to have a 10-second timer internally for this test, to answer or admit defeat for every question, I’m sure the average score would jump by at least 5 points - maybe 10 - even without innately being able to answer one more thing correctly. Or even better, just put all those <5-second questions first, and have them get gradually more difficult, and never bury a quick-answer question in the final 5 that many (and perhaps most) of the test-takers never see before time runs out.

Absent that, it’s a test in test-taking as much as it is a test in intelligence & knowledge. 

Peyton Manning graduated Phi  Beta Kappa

https://www.pbk.org/Members

 

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2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Wow you could tell all that from a single test score?

Particularly when one was in a time when there was far less scrutiny placed on the Wonderlic test, explain how you don't know the older brother didn't just get stuck on one question instead of skipping it & moving on. 

You really know not just how many someone got right, but how many he got wrong (as opposed to how many he just didn't get around to answering), and how many practice tests each took (never mind there were more practice ones floating around when the younger one took it)?

Anyway, to derive all that innate intelligence of each person from a single score in a short, 12-minute test, that's pretty impressive. You must have gotten a perfect 50 yourself. Thanks for correcting my "confusion" here.

 

I know that in 8th grade if I got 8 out of 10 questions right on a math quiz and the kid next to me got 10 out of 10 he would know I got an 80 and a low B and I still wouidn't give a sh*t.  That doesn't mean the test doesn't have merit.  

In the case of Eli and Peyton clearly Eli is smarter.   Peyton was dumb enough to suggest Adam Gase and Sam Darnold would be a good fit for each other.  The wonderlic was spot on.  

 

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19 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I've taken a practice Wonderlic for the hell of it before.  While there are indeed questions like these on there, there is also a mixture of logic-based questions that are more difficult.  I did well when I took it but not perfect.  Probably missed like 6-8 questions, I would guess.

I don't know how much use/value it has, but its not exactly "50 questions for meatheads" like you're making it seem.  

Isn't there a time element too? 

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3 minutes ago, Bruce Harper said:

It's kind of a pet peeve of mind that the Wonderlic results get leaked year after year.  These are kids and I see no need to embarrass them by releasing this stuff. 

I feel the same, but I like to know it too.  I guess I am also part of the demand that creates the supply.

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