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New York Jets all-time 53-man team: From Joe Namath to Wayne Chrebet


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20 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

I get that he ran off like a lunatic, but Riggins absolutely belongs.  He should have made it at FB or HB

riggins certainly had the talent.  when you consider what he was asking for back then even allowing for inflation it's less than what some of the backs are getting now.  those guys all played for chicken feed.

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13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, Ellis, Abraham, Chad, Becht, Coles were overrated? 

Youre really going to bitch about Cox and Vinny? LOL

Parcells gets the credit he does for taking over a horrible team adding talent and changing the culture around the team, making them a SB contender.  

 

The Jets acquired all those draft picks because they traded Keyshawn and basically Belichick for 4 1st rounders that saw basically one player (Ellis) become a long time starter for the team.  Potential dynasty with Belichick(assuming he drafts Brady here) or having one long term starter who was good but not great?  That draft was very overrated.

 

I loved Vinny and Bryan but they were scrap heap FAs, signed for depth and they got lucky they were great in '98.

 

Parcells is one of the all time great coaches, they turned it around because of his coaching.  He did a poor job as GM

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13 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

If you read the top of the piece it talks about what counts is what the player did for the Jets, not any other NFL franchise.   Vinny in reality had 3 seasons here, one thats worth talking about where he set team records, one that was average at best and another that was less that average.

I would have been fine with Chad over Ken, but I think without looking it up, Ken has better career numbers other than maybe comp %.  

Every QB throws up hospital balls.  We all remember the bad ones to Toon but I remember a whole lot of bombs, crossing routes etc.  Ken had some talent around him.  For all the talk about OB in the pocket, he didnt have a string of high sack seasons.  

But this is why I thought this would make for fun discussion.  

I remeber Toon as having a huge wingspan and outrageous catch radius.   He layed out and high pointed balls on a regular basis.  He was run into hits and made catches on what were uncatchable balls on a regular basis.  He left the game with his head bashed in because of it.   Ken lived off of the talent around him and when the Jets needed him step up in a big spot most of the time he shrunk.  When Vinny had the talent around him he stepped up.   I think Vinny in 98 did more for the Jets than Ken did in his entire Jets career.

There was no doubt that Ken had a SB quality team in both 85 and 86 and we didn't sniff it because of Ken.  Granted the Bears and Giants would have killed us but we were as good as any team in the AFC those years.  Ken's inability to step up in a big spot was the weak link.  

 

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8 hours ago, Biggs said:

I remeber Toon as having a huge wingspan and outrageous catch radius.   He layed out and high pointed balls on a regular basis.  He was run into hits and made catches on what were uncatchable balls on a regular basis.  He left the game with his head bashed in because of it.   Ken lived off of the talent around him and when the Jets needed him step up in a big spot most of the time he shrunk.  When Vinny had the talent around him he stepped up.   I think Vinny in 98 did more for the Jets than Ken did in his entire Jets career.

There was no doubt that Ken had a SB quality team in both 85 and 86 and we didn't sniff it because of Ken.  Granted the Bears and Giants would have killed us but we were as good as any team in the AFC those years.  Ken's inability to step up in a big spot was the weak link.  

 

I loved Toon.   He did have a huge wingspan and could catch anything 

Hard to compare the OB Jets to the Vinny Jets.  I thought Walton was a terrible coach who always could cost you a game, like the Browns game, by being outcoached and never felt that way with Parcells.  

I think its too easy to blame OB for not getting to the SB while not giving him credit to getting them to that position.  Hard to kill him for, in the 1985 NFL, putting up 3900 yards, 25 TDs, 8 INTS and over 60% comp and similar #s in 86 and then blame it all on him IMO

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17 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I loved Toon.   He did have a huge wingspan and could catch anything 

Hard to compare the OB Jets to the Vinny Jets.  I thought Walton was a terrible coach who always could cost you a game, like the Browns game, by being outcoached and never felt that way with Parcells.  

I think its too easy to blame OB for not getting to the SB and not give him credit to getting them to that position.  Hard to kill him for, in the 1985 NFL, putting up 3900 yards, 25 TDs, 8 INTS and over 60% comp and similar #s in 86 and then blame it all on him IMO

He was really good in '85 then even better during about the first 10 games of '86, after that his career fell apart.  No one blames him for all the problems but to inherit one of the best young rosters in the AFC and to never win a playoff game while his backup won a playoff game after Ken was benched is a pretty bad stain on his Jets legacy.

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39 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I remeber Toon as having a huge wingspan and outrageous catch radius.   He layed out and high pointed balls on a regular basis.  He was run into hits and made catches on what were uncatchable balls on a regular basis.  He left the game with his head bashed in because of it.   Ken lived off of the talent around him and when the Jets needed him step up in a big spot most of the time he shrunk.  When Vinny had the talent around him he stepped up.   I think Vinny in 98 did more for the Jets than Ken did in his entire Jets career.

There was no doubt that Ken had a SB quality team in both 85 and 86 and we didn't sniff it because of Ken.  Granted the Bears and Giants would have killed us but we were as good as any team in the AFC those years.  Ken's inability to step up in a big spot was the weak link.  

 

There was no reason the Jets shouldn't have at least been in an AFC Championship Game in those years, Ken never won a single playoff game and his backup did.  We likely win in cleveland in '86 if Ryan doesn't leave the game early.  I loved Ken as a kid, I still appreciate him but I think he's incredibly overrated by Jet fans today because we see some YouTube highlights of great deep balls.

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5 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

He was really good in '85 then even better during about the first 10 games of '86, after that his career fell apart.  No one blames him for all the problems but to inherit one of the best young rosters in the AFC and to never win a playoff game while his backup won a playoff game after Ken was benched is a pretty bad stain on his Jets legacy.

Is it Kennys fault that the Jets gave up 45 or more points in 3 of their 5 losses down the stretch?

I always thought Walton made OB the scapegoat and then started a QB who was nowhere near as good

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40 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Is it Kennys fault that the Jets gave up 45 or more points in 3 of their 5 losses down the stretch?

I always thought Walton made OB the scapegoat and then started a QB who was nowhere near as good

Yes.  in the first 2 games we scored 3 points each game.  The third game we scored 10 points.  Kenny had 9 INT's and was sacked 16 times in those 5 losses.   He lost his nerve down the stretch in those games and looked and acted like an old man.  Immobile and completely oblivious to how to move in the pocket and he lost his nerve to make the throw. 

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20 minutes ago, PCP63 said:

Two problems for me: no Tony Richardson, and no Kris Jenkins. While they were only on the team for a few years, they were some of the most dominant years I've ever seen from Jets players. Especially Jenkins. 

Richardson isnt on any list over Snell or Mathis.  

Jenkins played one full season.  I loved him but he was a blip here

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28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Is it Kennys fault that the Jets gave up 45 or more points in 3 of their 5 losses down the stretch?

I always thought Walton made OB the scapegoat and then started a QB who was nowhere near as good

I didn't solely blame him but let's look at the last 5 games shall we?

Led O to 3 points at Miami

Led O to 3 points vs the Rams

Led O to 10 points at San Francisco with TD coming in 4th qtr down 21-3

Led O to 10 points vs Pittsburgh. In 17-17 the threw int to set up Pitts go ahead TD then threw pick 6 to seal it.

Led O to 14 points at Cincinnati.

His numbers in last 5 games:

92-169, 54%, 941 yds, 2 TDs, 12 Ints, 45 rating, led O to 8 points per game

 

Wild card game vs KC with part Ryan at QB? Ryan threw 3 TDs with no Ints and let O to 28 points.  

O had 10 points early 2nd qtr at Cleveland in divisional round before Ryan left the game.  Ken had half of 2nd qtr, all 3rd qtr, 4th qtr, 1st OT and into 2nd OT and led O to 10 points with 7 coming on a 1 play drive where Freeman McNeil ran in a long TD.

 

was it all Ken's fault? No but he was awful late in '86 and never really recaptured his 85/half of 86 magic again

 

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3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Yes.  in the first 2 games we scored 3 points each game.  The third game we scored 10 points.  Kenny had 9 INT's and was sacked 16 times in those 5 losses.   He lost his nerve down the stretch in those games and looked and acted like an old man.  Immobile and completely oblivious to how to move in the pocket and he lost his nerve to make the throw. 

We gave up 45 points and lost to the fish, we lost 24-10 to a SB 49r team, 45-24 to the Steelers & 52-21 to the Bengals.

You can blame OB for all those losses.  I cant

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7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

I didn't solely blame him but let's look at the last 5 games shall we?

Led O to 3 points at Miami

Led O to 3 points vs the Rams

Led O to 10 points at San Francisco with TD coming in 4th qtr down 21-3

Led O to 10 points vs Pittsburgh. In 17-17 the threw int to set up Pitts go ahead TD then threw pick 6 to seal it.

Led O to 14 points at Cincinnati.

His numbers in last 5 games:

92-169, 54%, 941 yds, 2 TDs, 12 Ints, 45 rating, led O to 8 points per game

 

Wild card game vs KC with part Ryan at QB? Ryan threw 3 TDs with no Ints and let O to 28 points.  

O had 10 points early 2nd qtr at Cleveland in divisional round before Ryan left the game.  Ken had half of 2nd qtr, all 3rd qtr, 4th qtr, 1st OT and into 2nd OT and led O to 10 points with 7 coming on a 1 play drive where Freeman McNeil ran in a long TD.

 

was it all Ken's fault? No but he was awful late in '86 and never really recaptured his 85/half of 86 magic again

 

Here comes the bombardment 

Eli gets no credit because the Giants had a good D

OB gets blamed for 3 games where his team gives up 45, 45 and 52 points.  Its the QBs fault he didnt lead his team to 46, 46 and 53 points.  Its simple, Blame the QB.  He gets all the blame and when it comes to someone like Eli none of the credit

Playing from deep holes never effects an offense.

Who F'n cares, I dont agree, you hate OB, so end it

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

We gave up 45 points and lost to the fish, we lost 24-10 to a SB 49r team, 45-24 to the Steelers & 52-21 to the Bengals.

You can blame OB for all those losses.  I cant

Kenny really looked like he was done.   He played like he was afraid.  It was really sort of shocking to watch him go from having a terrific year and the Jets looking like a SB contender to looking like a guy who was completely finished down the stretch.   There's no getting around what happend down the stretch in 86.   Ken needed to step up and lead and he shrunk.

The QB is the general and when the QB throws in the towel the troops stop fighting.

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3 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Ken needed to step up and lead and he shrunk.

As I said, we're blaming him for not being able to lead the team to 46, 46 and 53 points.  

He played poorly but the whole team choked away a 10-1 start

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Here comes the bombardment 

Eli gets no credit because the Giants had a good D

OB gets blamed for 3 games where his team gives up 45, 45 and 52 points.  Its the QBs fault he didnt lead his team to 46, 46 and 53 points

Playing from deep holes never effects an offense.

Who F'n cares, I dont agree, you hate OB, so end it

You like to make things up because you don't have anything to counter.  Never once have I said Eli gets no credit. I said the D led those teams which is a fact but Eli, like Sanchez in my 09/10, played very well and helped his team win.

 

I was discussing the offense with regards to Ken. I didn't blame him for the losses but 8 PPG over 5 games? You think 12 Ints helped contribute to those bad D games?  It's amazing how much better the D played with Ryan when he didn't turn it over.

 

They played 3 somewhat close games in that 5 game losing streak.  Led O to 3 in 17-3 loss to LA, led O to 10(with a garbage time TD) at SF in 24-10 loss, led O to 10 in 45-24 loss to Pitt where the final score looked really bad but it was tied 17-17 when he threw an int late 3rd qtr  to set up Pitts taking 24-17 lead in 4th then he threw a pick 6 down 31-17 and driving.  Both Ints to the great Lupe Sanchez which were 2 of his 4 career Ints😂

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6 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Kenny really looked like he was done.   He played like he was afraid.  It was really sort of shocking to watch him go from having a terrific year and the Jets looking like a SB contender to looking like a guy who was completely finished down the stretch.   There's no getting around what happend down the stretch in 86.   Ken needed to step up and lead and he shrunk.

The QB is the general and when the QB throws in the towel the troops stop fighting.

There were a million injuries late that year which contributed to the collapse but once they went to Ryan they magically won and once ken was forced to play again they magically lost.  Many deserve blame(including Walton who always saw his teams struggle late in seasons) but no one deserves more than Ken

 

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

As I said, we're blaming him for not being able to lead the team to 46, 46 and 53 points.  

He played poorly but the whole team choked away a 10-1 start

I'mnot blaming him.  The reality is with good QB play down the stretch and in the playoffs that team in both 85 and 86 has a good shot to go to the AFC finals and the SB.  There is no doubt the NFC was a much stronger confrence in both those years.  The Jets had one of the best rosters in the AFC.  We simply underperformed and Ken was a dissaster down the stretch in 86.  You can't win with that kind of QB play against reasonable competition in the NFL.  

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1 hour ago, JetsFanatic said:

Rex is not a no brained or DC, Walt Michael’s was a very good coach. I would rank Michael’s ahead of Rex.

Rex Ryan is the cocaine of Head Coaches. If you need to win one game, with no concerns about the long term overall health and cohesion of the team, he's your guy. He'll have guys smashing through brick walls. But oh that hangover...

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1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

That's about what I expect from you, can't counter anything so make things up and deflect

Yeah. making them up.  You never went on and on and on and on that the Giants won despite Eli and it was their D that deserves the credit.

I'm making it up to deflect. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah. making them up.  You never went on and on and on and on that the Giants won despite Eli and it was their D that deserves the credit.

I'm making it up to deflect. 

 

Find me quotes where I said Eli did nothing to help them win and that he didn't deserve any credit? I have always said Eli played well in both SB runs but that the reason they won that SBs was primarily because of great D just like I have always said Sanchez played well in our 2 deep runs but the primary reason they made those championship games(and primary reason they lost those championship games) was because of the D.

None of that has anything to do with this discussion anyway.  Please respond to what I posted about Ken and his performance with regards to the end of the 1986 season.

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1 minute ago, nyjunc said:

Find me quotes where I said Eli did nothing to help them win and that he didn't deserve any credit? I have always said Eli played well in both SB runs but that the reason they won that SBs was primarily because of great D just like I have always said Sanchez played well in our 2 deep runs but the primary reason they made those championship games(and primary reason they lost those championship games) was because of the D.

None of that has anything to do with this discussion anyway.  Please respond to what I posted about Ken and his performance with regards to the end of the 1986 season.

Do you ever stop?

I said, I think the losses are on more than OB.  You want to go on and on and on as if youre actually going to change my mind for thinking that failing to score 46, 46 and 53 points isnt totally on the QB

Thats it, simple enough that even you can get it.  Move on, you dont need to continue, bring Sanchez in and whoever else you need to muck it up

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On 5/24/2021 at 9:58 AM, #27TheDominator said:

I get that he ran off like a lunatic, but Riggins absolutely belongs.  He should have made it at FB or HB

This.

If Jamal Adams is the greatest Safety in 4 years as a Jet, John Riggins is easily one of the top 2 Fullback for his 5 years in green and white. The guy who wrote it up didn't even mention him as a consideration

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