Resetting the New York Jets' roster, two years after The Big Shake-Up

[Bronx]

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/86731/resetting-the-new-york-jets-roster-two-years-after-the-big-shake-up

Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer
FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The New York Jets have come a long way as an organization. Wrap your brain around this:

Two years ago this week, Adam Gase was the interim general manager.

The former coach was handed the title after the firing of GM Mike Maccagnan on May 15, 2019, an abrupt move that plunged the franchise into a state of turmoil. It was bad.

In some ways, the Jets still are recovering, but they're moving in the right direction. The rebuild started with the hiring of GM Joe Douglas on June 7, 2019, and now they have a new coach (Robert Saleh) and a new quarterback (Zach Wilson).

Only 14 of the 90 players on the current roster pre-date Douglas' arrival, most notably safety Marcus Maye, defensive tackle Quinnen Williams, linebacker C.J. Mosley and wide receiver Jamison Crowder. The other 10 are marginal starters and backups.

A stunning transformation.

To mark the two-year anniversary of The Big Shake-Up, let's take a quick look at the roster.

QUARTERBACK: Wilson, James Morgan, Mike White

Douglas inherited Sam Darnold, deciding two years was enough. They haven't revealed their timeline for Wilson, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2021 NFL draft, but know this: If Wilson is healthy, he will be the starter. The only question is the backup plan.

Neither Morgan nor White has regular-season experience, and it wouldn't be prudent to entrust one of them with the QB2 job. You have to go back to 2013 to find the the last time a team went into Week 1 without a quarterback on the active roster who had played in a game, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. The Buffalo Bills did it with E.J. Manuel and Jeff Tuel. The Jets did it the same season with Geno Smith and Matt Simms. (Mark Sanchez was on the roster, but injured and inactive.)

Free agent Nick Mullens, along with Chicago Bears backup Nick Foles (who is likely to be released), are options.

RUNNING BACK: Tevin Coleman, Michael Carter, La'Mical Perine, Ty Johnson, Josh Adams, Austin Walter

Let's say this: Without Frank Gore, 38, the Jets are a lot younger in the backfield. Coleman has a leg-up because he played in the scheme as a member of the San Francisco 49ers, but the situation screams "running back-by-committee." Carter, their fourth-round pick, will have a chance to show his stuff.

WIDE RECEIVER: Corey Davis, Crowder, Keelan Cole, Denzel Mims, Elijah Moore, Braxton Berrios, Vyncint Smith, Jeff Smith, Lawrence Cager, Matthew Cole, Josh Malone, D.J. Montgomery, Manasseh Bailey

This is the most improved position on the team, thanks to the additions of Davis, Cole and Moore. This scheme (a version of the West Coast offense) typically doesn't use four-receiver packages, so it will be interesting to see how the roles are divided. Moore, the Jets' second-round pick, can line up anywhere in the formation, which should allow the coaches to be creative.

TIGHT END: Chris Herndon, Tyler Kroft, Ryan Griffin, Trevon Wesco, Daniel Brown, Kenny Yeboah

The Jets are betting on Herndon, hoping his 2020 funk was an aberration. Truth be told, Herndon, one of the Maccagnan holdovers, hasn't been a reliable player since 2018. Griffin, also coming off a lost season, should be better now that he's a year removed from ankle surgery. Wesco will get a look at fullback, although offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur isn't married to a two-back system.

OFFENSIVE LINE: Mekhi Becton, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Connor McGovern, Greg Van Roten, George Fant, Dan Feeney, Alex Lewis, Chuma Edoga, Cameron Clark, Conor McDermott, Corey Levin, Jimmy Murray, Teton Saltes, Tristen Hoge, Grant Hermanns, Parker Ferguson

This line is pretty much all Douglas. The only Maccagnan player is Edoga, the Jets' 2019 third-round draft pick who hasn't been good enough to win a starting job. Vera-Tucker, drafted in the first round, should be the Day 1 rookie starter at left guard, creating a potentially formidable left side with him and Becton.

The most competitive position is right guard, where Van Roten will be challenged by pretty much every guard on the depth chart. Lewis has a steep cap charge ($6.8 million), which could bite him at some point. The 2020 offensive line ranked near the bottom of the league in the key metrics; there's nowhere to go but up.

DEFENSIVE LINE: Williams, Carl Lawson, Sheldon Rankins, John Franklin-Myers, Vinny Curry, Folorunso Fatukasi, Nathan Shepherd, Jabari Zuniga, Kyle Phillips, Tanzel Smart, Bryce Huff, Jonathan Marshall, Michael Dwumfour, Hamilcar Rashed Jr.

Saleh's 4-3 system is predicated on the front four generating pressure, which explains why they spent big money on Lawson. Williams and Rankins, another free-agent addition, play the same position (3-technique tackle), but the scheme is built for having two on the field at the same time. Williams is rehabbing from foot surgery, but he's expected for training camp.

This is a better group than last season, but the fourth starter remains a question mark. You could see a rotation that includes Franklin-Myers and Curry.

LINEBACKER: C.J. Mosley, Jarrad Davis, Blake Cashman, Jamien Sherwood, Hamsah Nasirildeen, Noah Dawkins, Sharif Finch, Del'Shawn Phillips, Brendon White

This is probably the weakest area on the team. Mosley returns from his 2020 opt-out, but what kind of player will he be after essentially missing two full seasons? Saleh hasn't settled on Mosley as his middle linebacker -- Davis is an option -- so that's something to watch.

The Jets believe Davis, a 2017 first-round disappointment with the Detroit Lions, will flourish in their scheme. In the 4-3, it's all about speed and lateral movement. By default, Cashman is the leader for the weak-side spot, but he can't stay healthy. Sherwood, a fifth-round pick, will push for the job.

CORNERBACK: Blessuan Austin, Bryce Hall, Javelin Guidry, Justin Hardee, Michael Carter II, Jason Pinnock, Brandin Echols, Lamar Jackson, Zane Lewis, Corey Ballentine, Elijah Campbell, Isaiah Dunn

Everybody wants to know, "Will they sign a veteran? Will it be Richard Sherman?"

The sense around the team is that Saleh is comfortable with the idea of riding with so many young players. This group has a combined total of 35 career starts. Yeah, that's young. Austin and Hall return as outside starters, with Carter II (fifth-round pick) expected to push Guidry in the slot. This is one area where Douglas has yet to invest significant resources; it could come back to bite the Jets.

SAFETY: Maye, Lamarcus Joyner, Ashtyn Davis, J.T. Hassell, Bennett Jackson, Jordyn Peters

The big question here is whether the Jets can get Maye signed to a long-term extension by the July 15 deadline. Don't count on it. He already has signed his franchise-tag tender ($10.6 million), so there's no threat of him boycotting mandatory practices.

Joyner, a free-agent addition, is the favorite to start opposite Maye. They see him as a post safety whose presence will allow Maye to move around and play strong safety. They have high hopes for Davis, a 2020 third-round pick, but he didn't show enough last season to be handed a starting job. That's one of the reasons why they signed Joyner, a seasoned pro.

SPECIALISTS: Braden Mann (P), Sam Ficken (K), Thomas Hennessy (LS), Chris Naggar (K)

Mann and Hennessy are locks. Ficken and Naggar, an undrafted rookie from SMU, will battle for the kicking job. Will the game of musical kickers ever stop?

[JustInFudge]

17 minutes ago, Bronx said:

Only 14 of the 90 players on the current roster pre-date Douglas' arrival, most notably safety Marcus Maye, defensive tackle Quinnen Williams, linebacker C.J. Mosley and wide receiver Jamison Crowder. The other 10 are marginal starters and backups.

A stunning transformation

I havent read the rest but I had to pause and laugh quickly because these are the easily, the 4 best players on the team.  

[Bronx]

7 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I havent read the rest but I had to pause and laugh quickly because these are the easily, the 4 best players on the team.  

I predict that 3/4 of them will probably be gone/traded by the end of the season (if we have a losing record). Q.Will will probably be the last man standing due to his rookie contract. I have a feeling that Maye will be tagged again next year, depending on his performance and health.  JD will ride, as he should, most of the rookie contracts. A safety doesn't merit the cap implications.

[mfmartin]

I havent read the rest but I had to pause and laugh quickly because these are the easily, the 4 best players on the team.  

I wouldn’t put either Mosley or Crowder in the 4 best.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[More Cowbell]

Anyone else thinking we absolutely  suck at CB?

[More Cowbell]

54 minutes ago, Bronx said:

I predict that 3/4 of them will probably be gone/traded by the end of the season (if we have a losing record). Q.Will will probably be the last man standing due to his rookie contract. I have a feeling that Maye will be tagged again next year, depending on his performance and health.  JD will ride, as he should, most of the rookie contracts. A safety doesn't merit the cap implications.

I doubt Maye gets a second tag. I don't  recall what the increase in salary is but it is significant.  If Moore has a good season, we can afford to move on from Crowder but imo, you can never have too many solid WR's and Crowder is solid. There are currently no replacements for Mosely unless he absolutely  sucks when he comes back and I don't  expect that. If anything, Mosley is coming back to a more favorable  situation than when he arrived.  

[More Cowbell]

33 minutes ago, mfmartin said:

 

I wouldn’t put either Mosley or Crowder in the 4 best.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

So who is your top?

[Joe W. Namath]

What Douglas has done in 2 years is an absolute miracle.  And we still have 2 firsts and 2 seconds next year.  My goodness.

Thank you Joe Douglas.  Thank you!!

[JustInFudge]

1 hour ago, mfmartin said:

 

I wouldn’t put either Mosley or Crowder in the 4 best.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Who you got over them? Honestly.  I'm not sure who's better on the roster then those 4 dudes.  Lawson/C.Davis maybe but they're more hope then anything else.  It's certainly not anyone else JD has brought in.  I mean, you could be all homerific and say Becton but that's not like a real thing yet.  Sure, he looks promising but homeboy was pulling himself from games for a broken toe nail last year.  It's great he's good when he's in but availability means a ton at LT.  DBrick missed 1 snap his entire career, when he was pulled for a trick play.  Becton might have a higher upside but if you're not available, what good are you?

 

[More Cowbell]

33 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

What Douglas has done in 2 years is an absolute miracle.  And we still have 2 firsts and 2 seconds next year.  My goodness.

Thank you Joe Douglas.  Thank you!!

Please describe this "Miracle ". All i have seen is him replace a bunch of players with a bunch of question marks except for Becton, maybe Davis and Lawson but we actually  don't  know how they will play in green even though i expect them not to suck. So far JD has a 2-14 record to show for his effort. 

[Bronx]

48 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

  If Moore has a good season, we can afford to move on from Crowder

I know most people are against Julio Jones, but his cap #s according to ESPN are 15/11 in the next two years. We can dump Crowder for a 2023 pick. I rather keep Jones away from the Patriots, even if we had to part ways with Seattle's 1st pick. Our WR will immediately become elite and with a rookie QB in the toughest division, the best thing to do is take as much pressure off him.

[LIJetsFan]

The Athletic Names the Jets the No. 3 Most Improved Team in NFL

Joe Douglas Added 12 Free Agents, 10 Draft Picks; Including Zach Wilson, Carl Lawson and Corey Davis

May 26, 2021 at 08:30 AM

Ethan Greenberg

Team Reporter

The Athletic recently published an article detailing the five most-improved teams in the NFL and the Jets came in at No. 3.

"It's hard to not get excited about the moves that Jets GM Joe Douglas made this offseason," Robert Mays wrote. "[Carl] Lawson and [Corey] Davis were two of my favorite players available in free agency, and the Jets somehow landed both. Davis really came into his own with the Titans after starting a bit slow as the fifth overall pick in 2017. He's an ideal fit for offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur's offense, which shares a lot of DNA with the system that LaFleur's brother Matt brought to Tennessee in 2018. In Head Coach Robert Saleh's attacking defensive front, Lawson profiles as a perfect right defensive end who will be truly unleashed as a pass rusher.

"Davis and Lawson were the big swings in free agency, but Douglas also made several other worthwhile dart throws. The Jets brought in former Saints first-round pick Sheldon Rankins on a two-year, $11 million contract with only $6 million guaranteed. Douglas scooped up former Raiders defensive back Lamarcus Joyner on a one-year, $3 million deal. Both are the sort of low-risk bets worth making on talented players with question marks.

"The Jets' big bet was the decision to take Zach Wilson second overall in a draft with five first-round QBs. Even if Wilson takes some time to get going, there's a very good chance that the Jets will be a significantly better offensive team in 2021 than they were under Adam Gase. Among the 42 QBs with at least 150 drop backs last season, Joe Flacco and Sam Darnold ranked 33rd and 39th, respectively, in EPA per play. Even as a rookie, there's a solid chance that Wilson tops those numbers this fall.

"Whether that's because of the system, the surrounding talent, or Wilson's own ability is almost inconsequential. The Jets should be better on offense. That's especially true if LaFleur can get the most out of this team's other early draft picks. Along with adding Davis, the Jets also spent a second-round pick on Ole Miss receiver Elijah Moore, who immediately profiles as the Jets' starting slot option alongside Davis and downfield threat Denzel Mims.

"Douglas also made a bold move to trade a pair of third-round picks, go back up in the first round and snag USC guard Alijah Vera-Tucker. Moving up for a guard isn't necessarily sound process, but in the short term, Vera-Tucker and 2020 first-round pick Mekhi Becton could create a formidable left side of the line.

"The Jets had a ton of resources this offseason, and the result is a roster with considerably more talent than it had a few months ago."

General Manager Joe Douglas attacked the offseason by first signing 12 free agents including Davis, Lawson, Joyner and Rankins. He also added LB Jarrad Davis, WR Keelan Cole, OL Dan Feeney, TE Tyler Kroft, DL Vinny Curry, RB Tevin Coleman, CB/special-teams ace Justin Hardee and LB Del'Shawn Phillips.

After drafting Wilson No. 2 overall, Vera-Tucker No. 14 and Moore No. 34 in the NFL Draft, he added seven more players: RB Michael Carter (Rd 4), LB Jamien Sherwood (Rd 5), DB Michael Carter II (Rd 5), CB Jason Pinnock (Rd 5), LB Hamsah Nasirildeen (Rd 6), CB Brandin Echols (Rd 6) and DT Jonathan Marshall (Rd 6).

[jgb]

When Macc was canned after Jets let him blunder through another draft and FA, posters here defended the timing of the move. Good memories

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

Please describe this "Miracle ". All i have seen is him replace a bunch of players with a bunch of question marks except for Becton, maybe Davis and Lawson but we actually  don't  know how they will play in green even though i expect them not to suck. So far JD has a 2-14 record to show for his effort. 

When someone is kicking you in the beanbag, it's a miracle when someone comes along and makes them stop.

[THE BARON]

2 hours ago, Bronx said:

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/86731/resetting-the-new-york-jets-roster-two-years-after-the-big-shake-up

Rich Cimini, ESPN Staff Writer
FLORHAM PARK, N.J. -- The New York Jets have come a long way as an organization. Wrap your brain around this:

Two years ago this week, Adam Gase was the interim general manager.

The former coach was handed the title after the firing of GM Mike Maccagnan on May 15, 2019, an abrupt move that plunged the franchise into a state of turmoil. It was bad.

In some ways, the Jets still are recovering, but they're moving in the right direction. The rebuild started with the hiring of GM Joe Douglas on June 7, 2019, and now they have a new coach (Robert Saleh) and a new quarterback (Zach Wilson).

Only 14 of the 90 players on the current roster pre-date Douglas' arrival, most notably safety Marcus Maye, defensive tackle Quinnen Williams, linebacker C.J. Mosley and wide receiver Jamison Crowder. The other 10 are marginal starters and backups.

A stunning transformation.

To mark the two-year anniversary of The Big Shake-Up, let's take a quick look at the roster.

QUARTERBACK: Wilson, James Morgan, Mike White

Douglas inherited Sam Darnold, deciding two years was enough. They haven't revealed their timeline for Wilson, the No. 2 overall pick in the 2021 NFL draft, but know this: If Wilson is healthy, he will be the starter. The only question is the backup plan.

Neither Morgan nor White has regular-season experience, and it wouldn't be prudent to entrust one of them with the QB2 job. You have to go back to 2013 to find the the last time a team went into Week 1 without a quarterback on the active roster who had played in a game, according to the Elias Sports Bureau. The Buffalo Bills did it with E.J. Manuel and Jeff Tuel. The Jets did it the same season with Geno Smith and Matt Simms. (Mark Sanchez was on the roster, but injured and inactive.)

Free agent Nick Mullens, along with Chicago Bears backup Nick Foles (who is likely to be released), are options.

RUNNING BACK: Tevin Coleman, Michael Carter, La'Mical Perine, Ty Johnson, Josh Adams, Austin Walter

Let's say this: Without Frank Gore, 38, the Jets are a lot younger in the backfield. Coleman has a leg-up because he played in the scheme as a member of the San Francisco 49ers, but the situation screams "running back-by-committee." Carter, their fourth-round pick, will have a chance to show his stuff.

WIDE RECEIVER: Corey Davis, Crowder, Keelan Cole, Denzel Mims, Elijah Moore, Braxton Berrios, Vyncint Smith, Jeff Smith, Lawrence Cager, Matthew Cole, Josh Malone, D.J. Montgomery, Manasseh Bailey

This is the most improved position on the team, thanks to the additions of Davis, Cole and Moore. This scheme (a version of the West Coast offense) typically doesn't use four-receiver packages, so it will be interesting to see how the roles are divided. Moore, the Jets' second-round pick, can line up anywhere in the formation, which should allow the coaches to be creative.

TIGHT END: Chris Herndon, Tyler Kroft, Ryan Griffin, Trevon Wesco, Daniel Brown, Kenny Yeboah

The Jets are betting on Herndon, hoping his 2020 funk was an aberration. Truth be told, Herndon, one of the Maccagnan holdovers, hasn't been a reliable player since 2018. Griffin, also coming off a lost season, should be better now that he's a year removed from ankle surgery. Wesco will get a look at fullback, although offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur isn't married to a two-back system.

OFFENSIVE LINE: Mekhi Becton, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Connor McGovern, Greg Van Roten, George Fant, Dan Feeney, Alex Lewis, Chuma Edoga, Cameron Clark, Conor McDermott, Corey Levin, Jimmy Murray, Teton Saltes, Tristen Hoge, Grant Hermanns, Parker Ferguson

This line is pretty much all Douglas. The only Maccagnan player is Edoga, the Jets' 2019 third-round draft pick who hasn't been good enough to win a starting job. Vera-Tucker, drafted in the first round, should be the Day 1 rookie starter at left guard, creating a potentially formidable left side with him and Becton.

The most competitive position is right guard, where Van Roten will be challenged by pretty much every guard on the depth chart. Lewis has a steep cap charge ($6.8 million), which could bite him at some point. The 2020 offensive line ranked near the bottom of the league in the key metrics; there's nowhere to go but up.

DEFENSIVE LINE: Williams, Carl Lawson, Sheldon Rankins, John Franklin-Myers, Vinny Curry, Folorunso Fatukasi, Nathan Shepherd, Jabari Zuniga, Kyle Phillips, Tanzel Smart, Bryce Huff, Jonathan Marshall, Michael Dwumfour, Hamilcar Rashed Jr.

Saleh's 4-3 system is predicated on the front four generating pressure, which explains why they spent big money on Lawson. Williams and Rankins, another free-agent addition, play the same position (3-technique tackle), but the scheme is built for having two on the field at the same time. Williams is rehabbing from foot surgery, but he's expected for training camp.

This is a better group than last season, but the fourth starter remains a question mark. You could see a rotation that includes Franklin-Myers and Curry.

LINEBACKER: C.J. Mosley, Jarrad Davis, Blake Cashman, Jamien Sherwood, Hamsah Nasirildeen, Noah Dawkins, Sharif Finch, Del'Shawn Phillips, Brendon White

This is probably the weakest area on the team. Mosley returns from his 2020 opt-out, but what kind of player will he be after essentially missing two full seasons? Saleh hasn't settled on Mosley as his middle linebacker -- Davis is an option -- so that's something to watch.

The Jets believe Davis, a 2017 first-round disappointment with the Detroit Lions, will flourish in their scheme. In the 4-3, it's all about speed and lateral movement. By default, Cashman is the leader for the weak-side spot, but he can't stay healthy. Sherwood, a fifth-round pick, will push for the job.

CORNERBACK: Blessuan Austin, Bryce Hall, Javelin Guidry, Justin Hardee, Michael Carter II, Jason Pinnock, Brandin Echols, Lamar Jackson, Zane Lewis, Corey Ballentine, Elijah Campbell, Isaiah Dunn

Everybody wants to know, "Will they sign a veteran? Will it be Richard Sherman?"

The sense around the team is that Saleh is comfortable with the idea of riding with so many young players. This group has a combined total of 35 career starts. Yeah, that's young. Austin and Hall return as outside starters, with Carter II (fifth-round pick) expected to push Guidry in the slot. This is one area where Douglas has yet to invest significant resources; it could come back to bite the Jets.

SAFETY: Maye, Lamarcus Joyner, Ashtyn Davis, J.T. Hassell, Bennett Jackson, Jordyn Peters

The big question here is whether the Jets can get Maye signed to a long-term extension by the July 15 deadline. Don't count on it. He already has signed his franchise-tag tender ($10.6 million), so there's no threat of him boycotting mandatory practices.

Joyner, a free-agent addition, is the favorite to start opposite Maye. They see him as a post safety whose presence will allow Maye to move around and play strong safety. They have high hopes for Davis, a 2020 third-round pick, but he didn't show enough last season to be handed a starting job. That's one of the reasons why they signed Joyner, a seasoned pro.

SPECIALISTS: Braden Mann (P), Sam Ficken (K), Thomas Hennessy (LS), Chris Naggar (K)

Mann and Hennessy are locks. Ficken and Naggar, an undrafted rookie from SMU, will battle for the kicking job. Will the game of musical kickers ever stop?

Everything and I do mean EVERYTHING hinges on Zac Wilson.  His destiny is now entwined with that of Joe Douglas and Saleh.  If Wilson crashed, do does the Joe Douglas era and subsequently Saleh as well.

The other pieces of the roster are important of course and Douglas is indeed doing all that can be done to help Wilson succeed, but there is no guarantee that Wilson is going to work out.  

It it all riding on Wilson.

[slats]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

When Macc was canned after Jets let him blunder through another draft and FA, posters here defended the timing of the move. Good memories

Chris Johnson was in over his head and, iirc, even admitted as much. He simply wasn’t confident enough to search for a new GM and head coach at the same time, opting to fire Bowles first. 
 
I don’t know if Joe Douglas would’ve been available six months earlier. Was Philly letting him interview at that time? I don’t remember. But if this GM/HC combo that they managed to stumble into is the goods, how they got here doesn’t really matter. 

[section314]

35 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Who you got over them? Honestly.  I'm not sure who's better on the roster then those 4 dudes.  Lawson/C.Davis maybe but they're more hope then anything else.  It's certainly not anyone else JD has brought in.  I mean, you could be all homerific and say Becton but that's not like a real thing yet.  Sure, he looks promising but homeboy was pulling himself from games for a broken toe nail last year.  It's great he's good when he's in but availability means a ton at LT.  DBrick missed 1 snap his entire career, when he was pulled for a trick play.  Becton might have a higher upside but if you're not available, what good are you?

 

By that rationale, how the hell can you even think of putting Mosley on the list?

[jgb]

1 minute ago, slats said:

Chris Johnson was in over his head and, iirc, even admitted as much. He simply wasn’t confident enough to search for a new GM and head coach at the same time, opting to fire Bowles first. 
 
I don’t know if Joe Douglas would’ve been available six months earlier. Was Philly letting him interview at that time? I don’t remember. But if this GM/HC combo that they managed to stumble into is the goods, how they got here doesn’t really matter. 

Agree that all is well that ends well. Let's hope it does.

[More Cowbell]

32 minutes ago, Bronx said:

I know most people are against Julio Jones, but his cap #s according to ESPN are 15/11 in the next two years. We can dump Crowder for a 2023 pick. I rather keep Jones away from the Patriots, even if we had to part ways with Seattle's 1st pick. Our WR will immediately become elite and with a rookie QB in the toughest division, the best thing to do is take as much pressure off him.

I doubt Jones will be a Jet. He has been in the league for like 10 years. Why would he sign with a rebuild?

[jgb]

1 minute ago, More Cowbell said:

I doubt Jones will be a Jet. He has been in the league for like 10 years. Why would he sign with a rebuild?

He doesn't have a no-trade clause. He might not have much of a choice. Although, you'd think Atlanta would try to accommodate him (as long as it suits the team's likely desire to keep him out the division) if several offers are within the ballpark.

[More Cowbell]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

He doesn't have a no-trade clause. He might not have much of a choice. Although, you'd think Atlanta would try to accommodate him (as long as it suits the team's likely desire to keep him out the division) if several offers are within the ballpark.

The guy is an instant 1200 yard receiver. There will be a ton of interest and he will likely cost 2 first round picks 

[GreenFish]

2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I havent read the rest but I had to pause and laugh quickly because these are the easily, the 4 best players on the team.  

Macc was good at finding DT and Safeties. I guess we can ignore positional value for this argument.

I wouldn’t put Mosley or Crowder in our top 5.

Q > Davis > Maye > Lawson > Becton

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, JiFapono said:

I havent read the rest but I had to pause and laugh quickly because these are the easily, the 4 best players on the team.  

Well, maybe you could argue that, but one was a # 3 overall pick, another was an early 2nd round Safety, and the other 2 were overpaid veterans (one massively overpaid, the other a moderately overpaid slot receiver).  So its more of a sad reflection of the Macc era that it required such extensive resources to find a handful (or less) of useful/good players.  And is not Becton in that group of best players on the team?  At lowest I'd put him # 2 on the list behind QW.  And in terms of value/importance, only Zach Wilson currently carries more value/importance on the roster than Becton.

I do credit Macc for finally taking the right player at 3 in QW (though one could maybe argue in hindsight that the BEST move might have been to trade down and take C Garrett Bradbury), but it was about time a high pick worked out, especially at a non-premium position that's supposed to be easier to find.  

But Mosley was a disaster (even if he plays well this year), Maye is good but not special, and 2021 will likely be Crowder's final season in NY.  In the meantime, quite a few of Douglas' acquisitions since the beginning of his tenure will prove to join QW, Becton and Maye at the top of the list, as early as this season.  That list would include Mims, Carl Lawson, and a few of the other picks from the 2020-21 classes.  Corey Davis could end up one of our top players as well by the end of the season.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, GreenFish said:

Macc was good at finding DT and Safeties. I guess we can ignore positional value for this argument.

I wouldn’t put Mosley or Crowder in our top 5.

Q > Davis > Maye > Lawson > Becton

He wasn't good at "finding" them if he had to constantly over-draft them with early 1st and early 2nd round picks.  If he was landing quality DT's and S's with mid and late-round picks, you could say that.  

And even though Leonard Williams appears to finally be coming into his own with the Giants, he didn't accomplish d**k with the Jets.  Probably because Macc loved drafting 4-3 DT's to play in a 3-4 system that didn't suit them.  

Oh, and Nathan Shepherd was a f**king disaster.  The very next pick after taking a QB, and Macc chose a 27-year old project DT who is now little more than a rotational piece.  Absurd.  

The only DT he "found" was Fatukasi.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Well, maybe you could argue that, but one was a # 3 overall pick, another was an early 2nd round Safety, and the other 2 were overpaid veterans (one massively overpaid, the other a moderately overpaid slot receiver).  So its more of a sad reflection of the Macc era that it required such extensive resources to find a handful (or less) of useful/good players.  And is not Becton in that group of best players on the team?  At lowest I'd put him # 2 on the list behind QW.  And in terms of value/importance, only Zach Wilson currently carries more value/importance on the roster than Becton.

I do credit Macc for finally taking the right player at 3 in QW (though one could maybe argue in hindsight that the BEST move might have been to trade down and take C Garrett Bradbury), but it was about time a high pick worked out, especially at a non-premium position that's supposed to be easier to find.  

But Mosley was a disaster (even if he plays well this year), Maye is good but not special, and 2021 will likely be Crowder's final season in NY.  In the meantime, quite a few of Douglas' acquisitions since the beginning of his tenure will prove to join QW, Becton and Maye at the top of the list, as early as this season.  That list would include Mims, Carl Lawson, and a few of the other picks from the 2020-21 classes.  Corey Davis could end up one of our top players as well by the end of the season.

Macc drafted in the first round not to lose rather than to win. Once QW "fell" you knew he couldn't resist.

Not saying the pick didn't work out, only that I don't give Macc credit for making it using a strategy that had terrible results the other times employed.

[Jetsfan80]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Macc drafted in the first round not to lose rather than to win. Once QW "fell" you knew he couldn't resist.

Not saying the pick didn't work out, only that I don't give Macc credit for making it using a strategy that had terrible results the other times employed.

Exactly.  And to be fair to those (including me) who were calling QW a bust prematurely:  He did suck his rookie year, and that suckage lasted even into the following summer when he was shut down by the Jets' 2nd team offensive line during an intra-squad scrimmage.

I'm glad the lightbulb went on and QW now might just be a terrific pass-rushing DT.  But no, you're right that Macc deserves no credit for that, because the process by which he arrived at his picks was ALWAYS flawed.  That's literally the only draft pick Macc made in 5 years that ended up being the right pick (barring a trade down) when compared to the options available at the time, and it required a # 3 overall pick at a non-premium position for it to happen.  Guys like Adams and Maye ended up good players, but they were still the WRONG picks to make at the time, both with foresight AND hindsight in consideration.  

Pathetic.  

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He wasn't good at "finding" them if he had to constantly over-draft them with early 1st and early 2nd round picks.  If he was landing quality DT's and S's with mid and late-round picks, you could say that.  

And even though Leonard Williams appears to finally be coming into his own with the Giants, he didn't accomplish d**k with the Jets.  Probably because Macc loved drafting 4-3 DT's to play in a 3-4 system that didn't suit them.  

Oh, and Nathan Shepherd was a f**king disaster.  The very next pick after taking a QB, and Macc chose a 27-year old project DT who is now little more than a rotational piece.  Absurd.  

The only DT he "found" was Fatukasi.

Macc couldn't resist "best player in the draft" narrative. Isn't it odd that players with that tag always seemed to "fall" to the Jets during that era. I'd love to read the internal memos of the PR departments of the teams drafting immediately after the Jets in those years.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Macc couldn't resist "best player in the draft" narrative. Isn't it odd that players with that tag always seemed to "fall" to the Jets during that era. I'd love to read the internal memos of the PR departments of the teams drafting immediately after the Jets in those years.

Yep.  All these great players falling to us for 5 straight years and we still went 2-14 last year!  Who'd have thunk it???

[chirorob]

3 hours ago, mfmartin said:

I wouldn’t put either Mosley or Crowder in the 4 best.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

 

Mosely has played 15 minutes for the team, and is one of the 4 best?

[GreenFish]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He wasn't good at "finding" them if he had to constantly over-draft them with early 1st and early 2nd round picks.  If he was landing quality DT's and S's with mid and late-round picks, you could say that.  

And even though Leonard Williams appears to finally be coming into his own with the Giants, he didn't accomplish d**k with the Jets.  Probably because Macc loved drafting 4-3 DT's to play in a 3-4 system that didn't suit them.  

Oh, and Nathan Shepherd was a f**king disaster.  The very next pick after taking a QB, and Macc chose a 27-year old project DT who is now little more than a rotational piece.  Absurd.  

The only DT he "found" was Fatukasi.

That’s true. Foley was his only diamond he uncovered. Maye I can argue has played above his draft slot.

But I agree with you. Leo, Q and Jamal were all top 10 picks. 

[LIJetsFan]

I guess it time to confess.  While Mac was a slug in hindsight, I was all in on BPA for the past decade or so.   Seems I was wrong....Glad JD is here  

[jago]

4 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

What Douglas has done in 2 years is an absolute miracle.  And we still have 2 firsts and 2 seconds next year.  My goodness.

Thank you Joe Douglas.  Thank you!!

miracle would be playoff contention. lets set the bar reasonably high at least.

[Jetsfan80]

47 minutes ago, GreenFish said:

That’s true. Foley was his only diamond he uncovered. Maye I can argue has played above his draft slot.

But I agree with you. Leo, Q and Jamal were all top 10 picks. 

I can't agree.  An early 2nd round Safety should be able to produce like Maye does.  Eddie Jackson (4th round pick) has well out-performed Maye, and Maye's play has been either worse or about equal to fellow 2nd round Safeties Budda Baker and Marcus Williams.  

He's a good but not great Safety.  Him getting franchised is only evidence of how little Safeties get paid; the tag is much cheaper than the contract he seeks because the league doesn't value Safeties highly.  At Maye's age (28) I find it unlikely Douglas is going to hand him the long-term deal he seeks.  Douglas will either take the comp pick or try to get him to sign a 2-year deal.

And it obviously doesn't help that that draft class was loaded, meaning he was clearly the wrong pick at the time, particularly after having taken another friggin Safety at 6 overall.  Dalvin Cook, Chris Godwin, Alvin Kamara, JuJu Smith-Schuster, Joe Mixon, Kareem Hunt, Kenny Golladay, Cooper Kupp, Eddie Jackson, G Dion Dawkins, Shaquill Griffin and James Conner are among the long list of players taken in that Rd 2-3 range AFTER Maye that have out-performed him, if not well out-performed him, several of which were players who either played at a premium position, represented a position of need, or both.  

[Jetsfan80]

37 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I guess it time to confess.  While Mac was a slug in hindfsight, I was all in on BPA for the past decade or so.   Seems I was wrong....Glad JD is here  

BPA works, as long as you account for positional importance/value/opportunity cost and show a willingness to move up or down the board with trades when needed in order to maximize your picks. 

By moving around on the board it allows for the value of the player to meet your needs.  Like this year's draft, when Douglas clearly valued Vera-Tucker more than the other G's he could have taken later, and moved up to get him.  Or like last season, when WR was a need but he didn't like Mims (or the other WR's on the board, apparently) enough to take him at our 2nd round slot, and he also knew we had MANY needs, so he moved down.   

Macc didn't do any of that, so many here assumed BPA is the wrong approach.  Its not.  It just requires those caveats I listed.

[GreenFish]

38 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

I guess it time to confess.  While Mac was a slug in hindfsight, I was all in on BPA for the past decade or so.   Seems I was wrong....Glad JD is here  

Man. I’m sure a lot of us need to make that confession. I was there too. Macc took it to the extreme though.

Now I’m all about BPA at positions of need while factoring in positional value relative to the scheme we play.