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28 minutes ago, Bronx said:

I agree 100% , but there are protocols that will follow prior to naming the starting QB.

Yeah. The protocol is that Wilson is starting unless he is completely lost in camp/pre-season and gets utterly embarrassed by Morgan/White to the extent Saleh risks losing the team's buy-in by starting him. If Wilson doesn't start the season, his bust percentage goes from a baseline of 50% for high first-round QBs to like 90%.

This isn't an Aaron Rodgers/Brett Favre situation. It's freaking James Morgan and Mike White we are talking about here.

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No competition.  He gets ever rep.  If they want to sit him for a while bring in a Vet to start.  He needs all the work he can get.  Morgan and White get 2nd team reps and work in pre-season games. 

It’s building a winning culture. If the #2 OA selection who played in a similar system at BYU can’t beat out Morgan/White then he sits   Apart from that… he starts. Wilson is the hill we either captur

This isnt some clown show.  You think Saleh is going to put Morgan out there 1st today to send a pointless message to Wilson? Those days are over.  No need for silly games and dog/pony shows.  Th

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Maybe JD is holding off on bringing in a vet in order to avoid this scenario: Zach does OK in camp but the vet does even better. If that came to pass, then starting Zach anyway would contradict all of the “best players play” talk from the coach, but sitting Zach because he’s not the best QB in camp would delay his development. Maybe JD and Saleh want to avoid that scenario and make sure that Zach is the best at his position.

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1 minute ago, Stanley Blinka said:

Maybe JD is holding off on bringing in a vet in order to avoid this scenario: Zach does OK in camp but the vet does even better. If that came to pass, then starting Zach anyway would contradict all of the “best players play” talk from the coach, but sitting Zach because he’s not the best QB in camp would delay his development. Maybe JD and Saleh want to avoid that scenario and make sure that Zach is the best at his position.

Could be but if you need to insulate your FQB from competition, you probably don't have a FQB.

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13 minutes ago, jgb said:

Apparently. If Wilson can't beat out White and Morgan in camp, the bust detector's needle will be in the red zone already.

There is no competition from those 2. Wilson could throw a pick every drive in the preseason and he would still start vs Carolina.  There is no way he sits in favor of those 2. 

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Have no fear, if he is 1/10th the QB his hype-men here at JN claim

His hype men, here.  lol

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14 minutes ago, More Cowbell said:

There is no competition from those 2. Wilson could throw a pick every drive in the preseason and he would still start vs Carolina.  There is no way he sits in favor of those 2. 

Agree 100%. He doesn't even have to beat them out. He just needs to play something that resembles football. If he doesn't start, the bust calls will be justifiable.

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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

There is nothing "clown show" or "dog and pony" about competition and earning jobs.

You must not have much confidence in Wilson if you're this afraid even a minor competition against a lesser prospect would be a problem for him to quickly win, or would hamper him so much he's be less successful.

The amount of work guys get before the season starts is minimal.   We traded Sam and drafted this guy at 2.  He's getting the first team reps.  It's not about fear of competition it's about putting your best QB in position to be successful as soon as possible.   Zach was evaluated by Douglas, the HC and the OC.  He's the man unless he's not ready.

If he craps out or shows he's not ready you make a move at some point.  Competition is splitting first team reps.  It puts all 3 of the QB's in position to fail out of the gate.  

I have no doubt if Zach shows he's not ready mentally they will reevaluate.  This "Fear" of competition is insanely stupid comment.  My biggest fear is the Union and owners have made it very hard for rookies to get up to speed with the vets.  The amount of work you get even without competition is very limited.  

In today's NFL if you're having a QB comp in camp you really don't have a QB.  Management has basically decided they are clueless losers.  

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33 minutes ago, Biggs said:

The amount of work guys get before the season starts is minimal.   We traded Sam and drafted this guy at 2.  He's getting the first team reps.  It's not about fear of competition it's about putting your best QB in position to be successful as soon as possible.   Zach was evaluated by Douglas, the HC and the OC.  He's the man unless he's not ready.

If he craps out or shows he's not ready you make a move at some point.  Competition is splitting first team reps.  It puts all 3 of the QB's in position to fail out of the gate.  

I have no doubt if Zach shows he's not ready mentally they will reevaluate.  This "Fear" of competition is insanely stupid comment.  My biggest fear is the Union and owners have made it very hard for rookies to get up to speed with the vets.  The amount of work you get even without competition is very limited.  

In today's NFL if you're having a QB comp in camp you really don't have a QB.  Management has basically decided they are clueless losers.  

Agree to disagree I guess.

It's amazing how little some of you care about old school ideas like competition, and earning ones job by being the better player on the field.

I wonder how many times we have to fail at QB before some folks come around on this.  The "Anoint the QB King" method certainly didn't help Sanchez or Darnold be better QB's, where people made the exact same arguments we're hearing made now.

I can only hope Saleh really believe what he says about Competition. If Wilson is half the player he's supposed to be, that Competition would be over quickly and the result would be unequivocal.  Somehow I don't think a few days of Reps with the 2nd team is going to stunt Wilson or destroy his career like some of you seem to think. 

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's amazing how little some of you care about old school ideas like competition, and earning ones job by being the better player on the field.

Bingo. 

 

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On 5/26/2021 at 5:53 PM, DepressedJetsFan23 said:

IMO the worst part of the cheats is their fans  denial of it. I would actually find it better to comprehend if they were like “whatever it takes” if you talk to any NE fan they actually believe they did nothing wrong and they are perfect 

Would respect them more if they owned it, honestly. Like this line from Goodfellas where Henry's wife Karen basically justifies all the terrible things he and his friends do:

Our husbands weren't brain surgeons, they were blue-collar guys. The only way they could make extra money, real extra money, was to go out and cut a few corners.

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agree to disagree I guess.

It's amazing how little some of you care about old school ideas like competition, and earning ones job by being the better player on the field.

I wonder how many times we have to fail at QB before some folks come around on this.  The "Anoint the QB King" method certainly didn't help Sanchez or Darnold be better QB's, where people made the exact same arguments we're hearing made now.

I can only hope Saleh really believe what he says about Competition. If Wilson is half the player he's supposed to be, that Competition would be over quickly and the result would be unequivocal.  Somehow I don't think a few days of Reps with the 2nd team is going to stunt Wilson or destroy his career like some of you seem to think. 

Competition starts with having credible competitors. Bring in a vet QB with some upside, please! 

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4 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Wilson gets every rep and is handed the job.  No need for a dog and pony show.  Do u think Trevor Lawrence is competing in Jax?

He was the number 2 pick in the draft and is uber talented.  Hes already the starter.

This. A gazillion percent. I am not sure why this board is obsessed with getting a backup QB and having a competition for a QB that you drafted at the #2 spot and then trade away your veteran. There is only 1 option,: he starts, he gets all the #1 reps, and you put 100% of the teams resources behind me. 

All these ideas of competition is not being 100% behind your guy and that makes him struggling more likely.

Look he may fail like Darnold but until he does you need to commit everything

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7 minutes ago, jgb said:

Would respect them more if they owned it, honestly. Like this line from Goodfellas where Henry's wife Karen basically justifies all the terrible things he and his friends do:

Our husbands weren't brain surgeons, they were blue-collar guys. The only way they could make extra money, real extra money, was to go out and cut a few corners.

Competition starts with having credible competitors. Bring in a vet QB with some upside, please! 

Name a vet with upside?

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13 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agree to disagree I guess.

It's amazing how little some of you care about old school ideas like competition, and earning ones job by being the better player on the field.

I wonder how many times we have to fail at QB before some folks come around on this.  The "Anoint the QB King" method certainly didn't help Sanchez or Darnold be better QB's, where people made the exact same arguments we're hearing made now.

I can only hope Saleh really believe what he says about Competition. If Wilson is half the player he's supposed to be, that Competition would be over quickly and the result would be unequivocal.  Somehow I don't think a few days of Reps with the 2nd team is going to stunt Wilson or destroy his career like some of you seem to think. 

I feel that the competition concept just does not apply to QBs taken in the Top 5 picks If you make that investment you put everything you have behind the decision and do whatever you can to insure he succeeds. Splitting reps in a "competition" does not do that. In a way, he already "competed" for the spot through his college career and results. The Jets did not adequately support Sam and he failed. The Jets definitely do not seem to be making that mistake with Zach. Do you honestly think Lawrence is competing? And despite his national acclaim Lawrence is less prepared for the NFL stage. The QB position is just too important and too complicated to futz around with a competition when we know the result anyway. If we had an established veteran guy you could make a different argument, but once Darnold was traded the Jets were all in on Zach as Day 1 starter. And they know it unlike many of the armchair QBs here.

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2 hours ago, Bronx said:

So letting Zach sit, watch and learn the NFL pace until he is ready a bad thing? Foles won a Superbowl, Mullins played the system. Let someone else get the beating before he is determined ready.

So did Flacco want him back? Right now Saleh said all the reps go to the young guys period.. Once training camp gets going and someone interesting shakes loose if someone interests JD he'll make a move then..

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3 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

So did Flacco want him back? Right now Saleh said all the reps go to the young guys period.. Once training camp gets going and someone interesting shakes loose if someone interests JD he'll make a move then..

Great points and in agreement. Maybe LaFleur's system can be excelled even by an average QB. However, competition should be in place for ALL positions regardless.

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34 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Name a vet with upside?

Trubisky and Minshew are two. (Yes I know Trubisky is no longer available and Minshew maybe is/maybe is not).

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48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Agree to disagree I guess.

It's amazing how little some of you care about old school ideas like competition, and earning ones job by being the better player on the field.

I wonder how many times we have to fail at QB before some folks come around on this.  The "Anoint the QB King" method certainly didn't help Sanchez or Darnold be better QB's, where people made the exact same arguments we're hearing made now.

I can only hope Saleh really believe what he says about Competition. If Wilson is half the player he's supposed to be, that Competition would be over quickly and the result would be unequivocal.  Somehow I don't think a few days of Reps with the 2nd team is going to stunt Wilson or destroy his career like some of you seem to think. 

Old school there were no “voluntary” workouts.  They had a long killer training camp and plenty of preseason games.   There was no rookie cap or 5th year option.  
 

Sam, who has shown no ability to be a quality NFL starter had the competition traded off Carolina in 5 minutes.  Teddy outplayed Sam here and he outplays him in a comp in Carolina.   Old School has been defunded.   The little red brick schoolhouse was either torn down or is someone’s historic home.  

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4 hours ago, Warfish said:

In the earliest camp, it should be a competition.  Wilson, unlike so many of our 'anointed future-bust' QB's, MUST EARN his starting job.

Have no fear, if he is 1/10th the QB his hype-men here at JN claim, he should easily beat out a developmental backup QB prospect like Morgan and White.  He won't miss many reps, be assured.  Fans think a competition means the eventual #1 is somehow only getting a few reps, that simply isn't how it works in an NFL Camp, especially early.

And once he does, he gets every #1 rep from then on, nothing of value lost, and he at least had to earn his job for a change. 

Competition brings out the best in athletes, I've said it for years, and love that Saleh says it.  Make him earn it. 

And I believe he would, quickly.  Then we move on with a #1 who earned it.

QB competitions are a complete crock and a joke. Wilson should get all of the first team reps from day 1.  There are not enough practices in training camp these days to play around with this faux competition stuff.  Are we really willing to read Rich Cimini's columns every day in July and August that say Wilson was 8 of 13 with a TD today and Morgan was 7 of 11 with a TD?  What does any of that prove?  It was a disaster in the Sanchez/Tebow/Smith years and demonstrated how these "competitions" don't work.  John Madden was right when he said "When you have two quarterbacks, you have none."  This is even more accurate today when practice reps in camp are limited.  Wilson wasn't drafted with the #2 pick to sit behind either some 2nd rate veteran journeyman like Foles or Mullens or behind a lottery ticket like Morgan.  

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50 minutes ago, jgb said:

Competition starts with having credible competitors

White and Morgan could have worked out their butts off during the off-season. The judgement is still out there. Regardless, competition is healthy and it will bring the best out of all. It is better to have these guys work for theirs spots than being handed off on a silver plate.

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1 minute ago, Bronx said:

White and Morgan could have worked out their butts off during the off-season. The judgement is still out there. Regardless, competition is healthy and it will bring the best out of all. It is better to have these guys work for theirs spots than being handed off on a silver plate.

Lots of things "could have." Let's hope they push Zach, if not for playing time, at least to be his best self.

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7 minutes ago, Bronx said:

White and Morgan could have worked out their butts off during the off-season. The judgement is still out there. Regardless, competition is healthy and it will bring the best out of all. It is better to have these guys work for theirs spots than being handed off on a silver plate.

I don’t know. I’d like to see White and Morgan in the preseason. But this whole “competition” thing seems like pro-Darnold fans hoping there might still be some way to stop Wilson from taking over. 
 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I wonder how many times we have to fail at QB before some folks come around on this.  The "Anoint the QB King" method certainly didn't help Sanchez or Darnold be better QB's, where people made the exact same arguments we're hearing made now.

 

Sometimes players fail because theyre not good enough.  Not because they were anointed and didnt face competition.  Theres not a shred of proof to indicate that Sanchez or Darnold would have succeeded if they faced competition in their first camps.  Especially given Sanchez was here 6 years, Darnold 3.  By year 3 both should have been over all the damage of not facing real competition in their first camps.  Most QBs fail, thats football, the haves and have nots need to be weeded out as soon as possible, that 5th year option sneaks up quickly and is a real factor.

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Just now, Jet Nut said:

Sometimes players fail because theyre not good enough.  Not because they were anointed and didnt face competition.  Theres not a shred of proof to indicate that Sanchez or Darnold would have succeeded if they faced competition in their first camps.  Especially given Sanchez was here 6 years, Darnold 3.  By year 3 both should have been over all the damage of not facing real competition in their first camps.  Most QBs fail, thats football

It ignores that Darnold had competition in year 1 and still won the job and was bad.

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4 minutes ago, Jetluv58 said:

But this whole “competition” thing seems like pro-Darnold fans hoping there might still be some way to stop Wilson from taking over. 

Team first, individual second..the exact reasons why you should have a competition (all of our QBs are on the same boat, unproven).

 

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3 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

It ignores that Darnold had competition in year 1 and still won the job and was bad.

True.  It wasnt written in stone from day one that he had to start game 1.

I dont think for a minute that Darnold would have worked out if Bridgewater would have started and Sam sat 4-6 games.  And especially dont believe that his being a bottom of the NFL QB in his 3rd year would have been avoided.  Its obvious that Darnold just didnt developed as all hoped.  

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

This. A gazillion percent. I am not sure why this board is obsessed with getting a backup QB and having a competition for a QB that you drafted at the #2 spot and then trade away your veteran. There is only 1 option,: he starts, he gets all the #1 reps, and you put 100% of the teams resources behind me. 

All these ideas of competition is not being 100% behind your guy and that makes him struggling more likely.

Look he may fail like Darnold but until he does you need to commit everything

How would signing Trubisky for the $2.5M he got in Buffalo run contrary to "commit everything?"

Even Joe Montana got hurt sometimes.

 

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1 minute ago, jgb said:

How would signing Trubisky for the $2.5M he got in Buffalo run contrary to "commit everything?"

Even Joe Montana got hurt sometimes.

 

If you have a playoff team like the Bills or the 49'ers like with Montana you want a established vet. We are a young team that is not playoff ready yet, lets see how this season goes first..

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3 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

If you have a playoff team like the Bills or the 49'ers like with Montana you want a established vet. We are a young team that is not playoff ready yet, lets see how this season goes first..

Trubisky is a reclamation project with upside. Absolutely a no-brainer to sign for the Jets -- Hell any team -- for a lousy $2.5M

I don't want a Matt Moore type JAG -- that's who a contending team should want. Steady eddie game manager don't hurt you if your starter is out for 3 games and maybe steal a win, or if you're lucky two.

Upside dudes with potential is exactly who Jets should be aiming for. I want 2 QB lotto tickets this time around. "All eggs in one basket" is a garbage strategy (clearly).

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10 minutes ago, jgb said:

Trubisky is a reclamation project with upside. Absolutely a no-brainer to sign for the Jets -- Hell any team -- for a lousy $2.5M

I don't want a Matt Moore type JAG -- that's who a contending team should want. Steady eddie game manager don't hurt you if your starter is out for 3 games and maybe steal a win, or if you're lucky two.

Upside dudes with potential is exactly who Jets should be aiming for. I want 2 QB lotto tickets this time around. "All eggs in one basket" is a garbage strategy (clearly).

Well when JD gets fired and they hire you make that move.. Till then I'm happy with JD..

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4 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Well when JD gets fired and they hire you make that move.. Till then I'm happy with JD..

The Jets could do worse (and have).

 

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26 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

It ignores that Darnold had competition in year 1 and still won the job and was bad.

Actually he didn’t.  Teddy was clearly better.  As soon as he showed he was better they traded him.  

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26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Sometimes players fail because theyre not good enough.  Not because they were anointed and didnt face competition.  Theres not a shred of proof to indicate that Sanchez or Darnold would have succeeded if they faced competition in their first camps.

There is also not a shred of proof that facing more competition, and maybe not just winning the job by default, or even sitting early, wouldn't have helped them.  The best Jets QB of the past 30 years had real competition and sat before starting.

Which is why this is a pure speculation/opinion question.  There is no objectively true answer here, it's all theory and opinion.

No stress tho, the majority has clearly spoken, and said loud and clear that competition isn't just not needed, it's a seriously bad idea, and anointing a draft pick as the day 1 starter before he's taken a snap on an NFL practice field is apparently the best practice.

Fair enough.  Not a hill I feel like dying on rhetorically today.

 

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3 minutes ago, jgb said:

And I'll continue to comment on moves JD makes or I'd wish he made. Doesn't mean I hate him.

 

No problem I understand some fans like to play GM I'm more of a see the results of what was done and what could have been better possibly. How many seasoned Vets did Brady have behind him in his years with the Pats?? And they were always in the playoff hunt..

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There is also not a shred of proof that facing more competition, and maybe not just winning the job by default, or even sitting early, wouldn't have helped them.  The best Jets QB of the past 30 years had real competition and sat before starting.

Which is why this is a pure speculation/opinion question.  There is no objectively true answer here, it's all theory and opinion.

No stress tho, the majority has clearly spoken, and said loud and clear that competition isn't just not needed, it's a seriously bad idea, and anointing a draft pick as the day 1 starter before he's taken a snap on an NFL practice field is apparently the best practice.

Fair enough.  Not a hill I feel like dying on rhetorically today.

 

Your premises is that they failed and had the job handed to them (in your mind) is the reason they failed.

Could be but I dont see how Sanchez beating out Kellen Clemons is the reason he sucked in year 6.  He had the # 1 RB, #1 running game, #1 OL, # defense.  Better yet, when Tebow was brought in that was sited as a reason he failed.  He was looking over his shoulder

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