2021 QB competition

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

No problem I understand some fans like to play GM I'm more of a see the results of what was done and what could have been better possibly. How many seasoned Vets did Brady have behind him in his years with the Pats?? And they were always in the playoff hunt..

Some fans? Yeah I'd say posters with tens of thousands of posts on a team's messageboard have a lot to say about their team. Bad day?

[JohnnyLV]

27 minutes ago, jgb said:

How would signing Trubisky for the $2.5M he got in Buffalo run contrary to "commit everything?"

Even Joe Montana got hurt sometimes.

 

What in the hell would Trubisky do? We know he pretty much sucks and will not win you anything. I would rather roll with Morgan and see what he has then trot out another washed out backup veteran for a 10% better chance to win a game, maybe

[Jet Nut]

23 minutes ago, jgb said:

Trubisky is a reclamation project with upside.

No hes not

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, johnnysd said:

What in the hell would Trubisky do? We know he pretty much sucks and will not win you anything. I would rather roll with Morgan and see what he has then trot out another washed out backup veteran for a 10% better chance to win a game, maybe

He proved in 5 seasons with the Bears that hes not a FQB.

 

[jgb]

10 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

What in the hell would Trubisky do? We know he pretty much sucks and will not win you anything. I would rather roll with Morgan and see what he has then trot out another washed out backup veteran for a 10% better chance to win a game, maybe

Mitch Trubisky is going to be one of those "washed out" vets who makes GMs wonder how the Hell they missed it.

[Savage69]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Some fans? Yeah I'd say posters with tens of thousands of posts on a team's messageboard have a lot to say about their team. Bad day?

I don't like to play GM that's fine if others do.. So thousands of posts qualifies you as a GM? I hope Woody checks out JN if JD screws up.. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

No hes not

 

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

He proved in 5 seasons with the Bears that hes not a FQB.

 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

I don't like to play GM that's fine if others do.. So thousands of posts qualifies you as a GM? I hope Woody checks out JN if JD screws up.. 

You're a very confused individual lol

[Jet Nut]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

Thats where Trubisky's career will wind up, the second level in a file cabinet.  As in "remember when the Beards traded up for Trubisky and passed on Watson and Mahomes." 

[jgb]

Just now, Jet Nut said:

Thats where Trubisky's career will wind up, the second level in a file cabinet.  As in "remember when the Beards traded up for Trubisky and passed on Watson and Mahomes." 

Quoted for posterity. One less JN poster who can claim "calling Trubisky wasn't the bold call you make it out to be. After all, he did go to a pro bowl with the Bears."

[Jet Nut]

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Quoted for posterity. One less JN poster who can claim "calling Trubisky wasn't the bold call you make it out to be. After all, he did go to a pro bowl with the Bears."

So going to a pro bowl, when all the deserving QBs opted out is an indicator of how good he was for the Bears?

And should have been the pick over Watson and Mahomes?

This may be he worst hill to die on

 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

So going to a pro bowl, when all the deserving QBs opted out is an indicator of how good he was for the Bears?

And should have been the pick over Watson and Mahomes?

 

At this point of the debate, time is the judge. Let's wait for her ruling 

 

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

28 minutes ago, Warfish said:

There is also not a shred of proof that facing more competition, and maybe not just winning the job by default, or even sitting early, wouldn't have helped them.  The best Jets QB of the past 30 years had real competition and sat before starting.

Which is why this is a pure speculation/opinion question.  There is no objectively true answer here, it's all theory and opinion.

No stress tho, the majority has clearly spoken, and said loud and clear that competition isn't just not needed, it's a seriously bad idea, and anointing a draft pick as the day 1 starter before he's taken a snap on an NFL practice field is apparently the best practice.

Fair enough.  Not a hill I feel like dying on rhetorically today.

 

Who is the best QB of the past 30 years that had competition and sat?

[Bronx]

11 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

As in "remember when the Beards traded up for Trubisky and passed on Watson and Mahomes

They got it right this time around by drafting Fields. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 

[Warfish]

28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Your premises is that they failed and had the job handed to them (in your mind) is the reason they failed.

My premise is that being handed a starting job without having to earn it is almost always worse than earning a job via competition.

28 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Could be but I dont see how Sanchez beating out Kellen Clemons is the reason he sucked in year 6.  He had the # 1 RB, #1 running game, #1 OL, # defense.  Better yet, when Tebow was brought in that was sited as a reason he failed.  He was looking over his shoulder

I'm not talking about anyone's "Year 6".

I'm talking about rookies, specifically in this case, rookie QB's.

The interplay of an established veteran QB is always going to be a different animal.  I prefer they compete too if they suck badly enough, lol, but that's a whole other thread.

[Jet Nut]

8 minutes ago, Bronx said:

They got it right this time around by drafting Fields. 

I dont know that at this point but also it has nothing to do with Trubisky

[Jet Nut]

55 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

 

Great QBs throwing picks, we know they all do, doesnt change not seeing a wide open WR waving his arms in the EZ.  You know one of the biggest knocks on Darnold.  In year 3 he couldn't see the open man

[JohnnyLV]

13 minutes ago, Bronx said:

They got it right this time around by drafting Fields. 

We will see. His legs give him a chance to have a certain level of success early but of the Top 5 he has by far the highest bust potential.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 5/27/2021 at 10:23 AM, THE BARON said:

The CS will have to evaluate his ability to start during camp/preseason.  If he looks up to it, he starts.  If he looks shaky, bring in a vet, any vet available and sit Wilson for how ever long he has to sit until he is ready. 

This. He doesn't need a phony/baloney "competition" to determine if he looks like he can start or not. If he looks ready to hit the field, I'm disinterested in wasting extra time on his backups. Backups see the practice field a little, even without a purported competition, and if they look really good - and only if they look really good - should any consideration be given to robbing the starter of extra reps in his rookie summer. 

If Wilson blatantly looks unready on his own, then I'm ok with Morgan (or I suppose white) getting more reps...while Douglas is on the phone working out an agreement with Mullens or Foles, or waiting for the former to get cleared physically. If Morgan impresses before Douglas gets off the phone, then LaFleur or Saleh can text Douglas there's no need to bring one of them in lol. 

It's all a moot point: absent an injury, Wilson is clearly starting week 1. 

[Bronx]

15 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

This. He doesn't need a phony/baloney "competition" to determine if he looks like he can start or not. If he looks ready to hit the field, I'm disinterested in wasting extra time on his backups. Backups the practice field a little, even without a purported competition, and if they look really good - and only if they look really good - should any consideration be given to robbing the starter of extra reps in his rookie summer. 

If Wilson blatantly looks unready on his own, then I'm ok with Morgan (or I suppose white) getting more reps...while Douglas is on the phone working out an agreement with Mullens or Foles, or waiting for the former to get cleared physically. If Morgan impresses before Douglas gets off the phone, then LaFleur or Saleh can text Douglas there's no need to bring one of them in lol. 

It's all a moot point: absent an injury, Wilson is clearly starting week 1. 

The case with the NY Jets, none of them are proven. You don't handle the keys at the start of training camp. You have to evaluate all avenues. What if Morgan outshines Wilson? Is that a possibility? If so, did JD get it right by drafting him or wrong by drafting Wilson. There should be competition, and if I was White or Morgan, I'll be working my butt off trying to beat Wilson for the starting job.

 

 

[Jet Nut]

52 minutes ago, Warfish said:

My premise is that being handed a starting job without having to earn it is almost always worse than earning a job via competition.

Your premise is Sanchez didnt have comp in Clemons and Darnold didnt have comp in Bridgewater and that if they sat it would have made a difference.  

And year 6 is relevant to me only because not having faced completion in year 1 was long gone.  Sanchez was in the perfect situation to start from day 1 and still failed.  

I dont think earning it makes any difference long term.  I could be wrong but no one can predict.  Wilson is the best QB in camp and will get most of the work to better be ready to hit the ground running.  

If Wilson looks unready to play in game 1 we'll see, the CS will see it in practices and in the preseason games.  In essence hes competing but with himself

[Sperm Edwards]

42 minutes ago, Warfish said:

My premise is that being handed a starting job without having to earn it is almost always worse than earning a job via competition.

 

I get what you're saying but don't agree that a 3-way QB competition with Morgan & White is needed in order to judge Wilson as ready or unready to start.

These coaches have seen QBs before; they know what it's supposed to look like when someone's not terrible; they can tell plainly if he's doing it right or if this kid is totally overwhelmed & in over his head so far. Robbing him of 2/3 of his preseason reps that could accelerate that process isn't required to illuminate them on this like it's too fine a point that would've otherwise escaped them. There's no coaches' or GM's ego/pride involved in starting him right away if he's clearly unready; Douglas won't get gloating points for putting him on the field vs. Carolina, knowing he's just going to make a doody in his pants every time there's pressure and/or tight coverage. 

I don't think it's exactly the same as your garden variety competitions among veterans (e.g. at RG this year). Not just because he's a rookie, but because the position is of such singular importance, and further because QB's also unlike any other skill positions in football that can gradually see more playing time as the season progresses. A QB is on the field or he's not. IMO he needs the reps and they'll see what he's got (and what he doesn't) at this juncture, even without competition. 

If he seems to be coasting & doesn't seem to know the play book and other evidence of outright laziness, well then yeah start giving Morgan half the reps instantaneously. I can't predict the future, but he doesn't come across as a hyper-douche Manziel II, so I'd say that's unlikely. 

But if it's not out of laziness, and he's so bad it looks like he may as well give it a try throwing lefty, or just clearly is too clueless as to what he's doing yet, the coaches won't need a competition to clue them in that someone else should be on the field instead.

[Sperm Edwards]

17 minutes ago, Bronx said:

The case with the NY Jets, none of them are proven. You don't handle the keys at the start of training camp. You have to evaluate all avenues. What if Morgan outshines Wilson? Is that a possibility? If so, did JD get it right by drafting him or wrong by drafting Wilson. There should be competition, and if I was White or Morgan, I'll be working my butt off trying to beat Wilson for the starting job.

 

 

If Morgan starts to wow them in practice, then - especially if Wilson isn't looking too hot - I'm sure they'll make an alteration at that time. The starter getting "all the reps" is an expression; it's not like the other two don't get to throw the football all summer.

Also the "none of them are proven" is more of a Devil's Advocate role. None of them have proven anything good as pros, but the other two have proven to be pretty awful so far. White got cut from the Cowboys because - in his second year in their system - he couldn't earn the #3 QB job to run their practice squad instead of some waiver-wire rookie named Clayton Thorson. A season later, it seems he was deemed less worthy of the #3 QB job than Luke Falk. So White is useless. This then brings us to Morgan, who got beaten out by White last year when faced with the prospect of maybe seeing the field in an emergency.

So there IS going to be competition at the QB position: White is competing with Morgan so the latter isn't just handed a roster spot again. And if the former wins, then expect them to sign someone else (as well they should). 

You go with the odds, and that's Wilson. If one of the other two is turning heads in practice, it won't go unnoticed. A backup QB doesn't fully need 1/3 of the starter reps to prove/show he's working hard. 

What each can do at this point is be the best QBs they can be, to earn a roster spot, and show their stuff if/when Wilson is unable to go. Because if it's even close then Wilson easily wins by default. Either of them would have to wipe the floor with Wilson - with the latter looking pretty awful - for that to be less than a total waste of Wilson's reps. The coaches won't need competition to see if Wilson is that terrible this summer. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

Trade for Deshaun Watson and let the two of them battle it out for starter this year

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

Mitch Trubisky is going to be one of those "washed out" vets who makes GMs wonder how the Hell they missed it.

you are a tough poster to figure out. Sam Darnold sucks, always sucked, was heaping trash who will always suck, yet Mitch Trubisky is going to make GM's wonder how the hell they missed it?

What difference do you see in Trubisky and Darnold? Trubisky sucked every bit as bad and probably didn't have as much adversity as Darnold did to deal with.

 

[jgb]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Great QBs throwing picks, we know they all do, doesnt change not seeing a wide open WR waving his arms in the EZ.  You know one of the biggest knocks on Darnold.  In year 3 he couldn't see the open man

With a sample size of 1, I can make Steven Hawking look like a moron.

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I dont think earning it makes any difference long term.

Ok.

[Savage69]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

You're a very confused individual lol

I disagree I'm not the Darksider I'm sensible and sane..LOL

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

With a sample size of 1, I can make Steven Hawking look like a moron.

Just not Trubinsy into a better QB than Watson or Mahomes.

[jgb]

59 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you are a tough poster to figure out. Sam Darnold sucks, always sucked, was heaping trash who will always suck, yet Mitch Trubisky is going to make GM's wonder how the hell they missed it?

What difference do you see in Trubisky and Darnold? Trubisky sucked every bit as bad and probably didn't have as much adversity as Darnold did to deal with.

 

Trubisky is in another league than Darnold. And I'm not saying Trubisky is elite. I'm saying he's got major rebound potential. Poor man's Tannehill potential. It's not a slam dunk by any means and I acknowledge it's a bold call (until it happens then all I'll hear is that it was "actually obvious").

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Just not Trubinsy into a better QB than Watson or Mahomes.

Who da fugg said that lol. I'm probably his most (only?) supporter here and I said "poor man's Tannehill."

[Jetsfan80]

Obviously Wilson needs to earn the job, but realistically the competition will end up being for the # 2 job between Morgan, White, and possibly a veteran add (if neither of those 2 look the part).

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

Trubisky is in another league than Darnold. And I'm not saying Trubisky is elite. I'm saying he's got major rebound potential. Poor man's Tannehill potential. It's not a slam dunk by any means and I acknowledge it's a bold call (until it happens then all I'll hear is that it was "actually obvious").

Oh, well, if you say so, I guess it must be