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My guess is that Trubisky could have done a bit better than what he got, but he wanted a one year contract and then reboot next year.  He believes that he would play better in the system that Josh Allen plays in.  So he wants to prove it when and if Josh Allen has to leave the game for injuries.  Like Garropolo did.  Good luck with that.  

Darnold is a 2 year deal, his last contract plus his fifth year option.  Its not $19mm.  Per OTC its $23mm owed over 2 years.  So its a slightly more than what the Jets are guaranteeing Wilson over three years.  The cap hit is light this year and much more next year.   

i think Trubisky shorted himself, but the Panthers were not signing Trubisky.  They needed a QB, so they basically drafted Darnold in the mini draft, for a 2,4 and 6.  Darnold can be franchised year 3.  

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No competition.  He gets ever rep.  If they want to sit him for a while bring in a Vet to start.  He needs all the work he can get.  Morgan and White get 2nd team reps and work in pre-season games. 

It’s building a winning culture. If the #2 OA selection who played in a similar system at BYU can’t beat out Morgan/White then he sits   Apart from that… he starts. Wilson is the hill we either captur

This isnt some clown show.  You think Saleh is going to put Morgan out there 1st today to send a pointless message to Wilson? Those days are over.  No need for silly games and dog/pony shows.  Th

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This is just masturbation with regard to some ideal of a meritocracy. Earn his starting job? How? By splitting reps with two guys who were on the roster previously who if they had a shot in hell the Jets wouldn't have drafted ZW to begin with? Or by bringing in some has been vet and wasting valuable reps in practice on a dog and pony show for the public? Maybe offer Fitztragic a second chance? ZW needs all the reps he can get. He earned the starting job when the new administration saw him as a perfect fit and decided to pick him number two overall. The Jets are committed to ZW as the starter at this point. If the Jets had a Farve Rodgers situation that would be different.
 
 
You buy a lamborghini to win an 8 million dollar street race .... you organize a few test races to see if this beast can beat your beat up 69 Mustang ... or you Porsche 911... for some reason the Lambo just is not tuned fine enough to pull it off ... your mechanic is working his ass off to get it tuned up ....but just cant do it in time...

... your telling me you ride the Lambo just cause ???

Child please.

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5 hours ago, Dunnie said:

While I love Vinnie .. because he had a big arm and was Vinnie ... the guy was never more than average.

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I agree. He had one great year and two mediocre to bad years with the Jets.  But he was never in a QB competition with Pennington until 2002. And even then, it wasn't until the regular season started that it became an issue.  Teams switch QBs when the starter struggles all the time, but preseason competitions are rare.    In fact, until recently, there were not many pre season QB competitions in Jets history.  Todd/Robinson was the first true competition in 1978.  Then  O'Brien/Nagle in 1992.  After that nothing until all the Sanchez/Tebow/Smith nonsense.  Did any of these make any Jets QB - or the Jets - better?  Nope.  Most QB competitions occur because the teams are choosing being multiple bad options.  QB competitions are a farce and Madden was right when he said that if you have 2 QBs you have none.  

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51 minutes ago, Dunnie said:

You buy a lamborghini to win an 8 million dollar street race .... you organize a few test races to see if this beast can beat your beat up 69 Mustang ... or you Porsche 911... for some reason the Lambo just is not tuned fine enough to pull it off ... your mechanic is working his ass off to get it tuned up ....but just cant do it in time...

... your telling me you ride the Lambo just cause ???

Child please.

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At no point are you going to return your 21' Lambo because your 69' Mustang (not that the Jets have one or that one is even on the market) had a couple good snaps in camp as a 52 year vet. You watch the Lambo, check the data, and adjust accordingly. You don't waste mechanic or driver time with the Mustang, because the Lambo is what you'll be running when it counts. It wouldn't be a real competition anyway, and everyone involved knows it. Plus, practice isn't equal to game time, child. If we were still living in the days of two a days during camp and snaps were abundant during the season go placate yourself with a show of things so one could claim victory one way or the other according to their underlying preferences.  

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They should be no doubt by any Jets fan that we all want Wilson to earn the job and start game one.
That being said, not having a good backup ready in case of injuries to your FQB is not a smart move in today’s NFL. I certainly am tired of bring in these old retreads and not developing our backups in house. As such, seeing what Morgan or White has to offer playing with the first unit is absolutely essential.


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8 hours ago, section314 said:

You really think so? I think the guys today are way more one dimensional. They are never under center, run gimmick offenses, if the first guy isn't open, tuck and run. They don't have to read defenses.

Oh yeah, easily.  The game 20+ years ago in college was mostly ground and pound.  They pass for more yardage in college today than NFL QBs did back then.  Look at Wilson, hes coming to the Jets after running a very similar offense at BYU.  Lawrence?  2 of the top 3, 3 of the top 5 draftees ran pro style offenses in college

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10 hours ago, Dunnie said:

It's ok to have a diff take ... I completely disagree with you... handing the job to a kid that is not ready has backfired repeatedly for the Jets ... the definition of insanity is repeating the same mistake repeatedly

If Wilson cannot beat out a scrub ... he should not start.

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There is a subtlety here, Sam and the others did not fail because we "handed" the job to them they failed in large part because we never fully committed to any of them and ultimately the lack of support is what doomed them plus maybe our evaluations were not as strong to begin with.

A QB competition for a rookie QB is a self prophesying road to failure.

It is ludicrous to think that any rookie QB would beat out a veteran in a true camp competition. Then by the process of splitting the reps the rookie is less perpared for the season which makes his progress harder. Because they are never real competitions and in the end the #2 or #3 pick is going to play, because the competition is there in name only. 

If you are going to run a real competition then the answer is to sit the QB for a year behind the veteran.

It is ludicrous to think that a rookie QB with essentially 2 months of development is going to outplay a veteran, but the hope would be that with proper development and support that at some point in the season he WILL be better.

It is the dumbest and most franchise crippling decision a team can make.

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i think Andy Reid said this

the best way for a rookie QB to develop is to start him from day 1. nothing can replace the experience of playing in the game. no better way to learn.

now i will wait for someone to bring up Aaron Rodgers and totally forget the reason he sat was because of HOF Brett Farve.

that ones my favorite.

or Mahomes who sat for Alex Smith who was a pretty good QB . he went 50-26 in 5 years with 3 pro bowls including his last 2 years there.

you dont sit your new FQB for scrubs like Sam Darnold, or Hoyer .

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There is a subtlety here, Sam and the others did not fail because we "handed" the job to them they failed in large part because we never fully committed to any of them and ultimately the lack of support is what doomed them plus maybe our evaluations were not as strong to begin with.
A QB competition for a rookie QB is a self prophesying road to failure.
It is ludicrous to think that any rookie QB would beat out a veteran in a true camp competition. Then by the process of splitting the reps the rookie is less perpared for the season which makes his progress harder. Because they are never real competitions and in the end the #2 or #3 pick is going to play, because the competition is there in name only. 
If you are going to run a real competition then the answer is to sit the QB for a year behind the veteran.
It is ludicrous to think that a rookie QB with essentially 2 months of development is going to outplay a veteran, but the hope would be that with proper development and support that at some point in the season he WILL be better.
It is the dumbest and most franchise crippling decision a team can make.
The rook does not need to beat the vet outright ... he just needs to shine enough ... I get both arguments ...as far as who starts ... I think it's clear by my sig who I want under center.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 5/29/2021 at 7:09 PM, Jet Nut said:

Im going to guess that when people see Darnold they see the QB that most ranked as the best since Luck, who's only 23 and people still think can develop

When people look at Trubisky they see a QB who with a half season or so of college production was overdrafted and has proven out all the fears over problems to his game when he came out of NC and after 5 years havent been eliminated. 

More to the point Darnold is a starting QB and Trubisky isnt.

Honestly, this describes Darnold as well (except Darnold did start 2x as many games in college, true). The big difference is that Trubisky has had some modicum of success (results and statistically) in the big leagues. That trumps college narratives IMHO.

Oh and Trubisky has only been in NFL 4 years, one more than Darnold.

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Chad Pennington, arguably the best Jets QB we drafted post Namath had a competition and lost.  He was handed the Job when Vinny sucked.  Aaron Rodgers never had a competition with Bret Favre.  They unloaded Favre and gave him the job.  They might have cost themselves a SB because of it.  

The Jets drafted Zach to start.  If he isn't ready to start you don't start him.  That has nothing to do with "competition".  That's just good QB development.  

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30 minutes ago, jgb said:

Honestly, this describes Darnold as well (except Darnold did start 2x as many games in college, true). The big difference is that Trubisky has had some modicum of success (results and statistically) in the big leagues. That trumps college narratives IMHO.

The things that are in favor of Darnold is people see the college play his sophomore season and that hes still only 23.  That will all be over after his term with the Panthers.  If he doesnt take advantage of his second chance and show that it was the lack of talent and coaching in NY he'll be finished as a starter in the NFL.

Trubisky may already be there

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On 5/29/2021 at 11:22 PM, johnnysd said:

It is ludicrous to think that any rookie QB would beat out a veteran in a true camp competition. Then by the process of splitting the reps the rookie is less perpared for the season which makes his progress harder. Because they are never real competitions and in the end the #2 or #3 pick is going to play, because the competition is there in name only. 

If you are going to run a real competition then the answer is to sit the QB for a year behind the veteran.

It is ludicrous to think that a rookie QB with essentially 2 months of development is going to outplay a veteran, but the hope would be that with proper development and support that at some point in the season he WILL be better.

It is the dumbest and most franchise crippling decision a team can make.

This

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On 5/27/2021 at 6:38 AM, Bronx said:

Should there be a QB competition this year or hand off the keys to Wilson? All QBs on the roster are a question mark at this point. We have not seen Morgan or White in action. The Jets were all in on Wilson this off season, but should he be excluded regardless of his draft position?

Saleh is big on competition, "Competition breeds improvement and so there's just going to be a great level of competition," Head Coach Robert Saleh said. He added: "We love the competition."-Saleh

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/hc-robert-saleh-loves-the-competition-especially-in-cornerbacks-room

Wilson has an incredible arm and great instincts, but he should not be excluded from competing. Morgan and White are a mystery and would be intriguing to view their potential this off season.

 

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24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

The things that are in favor of Darnold is people see the college play his sophomore season and that hes still only 23.  That will all be over after his term with the Panthers.  If he doesnt take advantage of his second chance and show that it was the lack of talent and coaching in NY he'll be finished as a starter in the NFL.

Trubisky may already be there

College was a long time ago for both of these guys. I don't think it has much predictive value any longer versus what we have seen from both in the NFL.

Trubisky has started 12 more games than Darnold and has been many times better. One can (correctly) point out that Darnold was in a worse situation but I don't think we can discount that the shell of Joe Flacco performed better (at worst, equal) to Darnold with the same squad while Foles did worse than Trubisky. Trubisky came in a saved the Bears' season last year. Was he perfect? No. But think about the hype Darnold got after "surging" (term used lightly) at the end of the 2019 season. What Trubisky did was much more impressive.

Trubisky also has a similar athletic profile to Tannehill (both are "A" athletes at the position, which can cover a lot of other gaps in their games) and like Tannehill in Miami, Trubisky currently "enjoys" a reputation as a bit of a dink-and-dunker operating in a rigid system not well-adapted to his talents. And like Titans for Tannehill, the Bills are a perfect fit for Trubisky's skill set. The big question is will he get an opportunity to show it like Tannehill did. Josh Allen ain't getting benched like Mariota did. Now Tannehill was an "easy" call to win CBPOTY because he was (1) more accurate than Trubisky; (2) had two 4,000 yard seasons under his belt in Miami and nearly a 3rd; and (3) is a touch more athletic than Trubisky. Hence why I say Trubisky has a relatively good chance of becoming "a poor man's Tannehill."

A QB being able to "turn it around" after 3-4 years in the NFL is a long shot in any case. The outliers are so well known because they are outliers. All I'm saying is Trubisky needs to turn about 90 degrees to be going in the right direction while Darnold needs a 180. The Trubisky case for becoming a competent starter is much stronger than for Darnold IMHO.

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59 minutes ago, jgb said:

College was a long time ago for both of these guys. I don't think it has much predictive value any longer versus what we have seen from both in the NFL.

Trubisky has started 12 more games than Darnold and has been many times better. One can (correctly) point out that Darnold was in a worse situation but I don't think we can discount that the shell of Joe Flacco performed better (at worst, equal) to Darnold with the same squad while Foles did worse than Trubisky. Trubisky came in a saved the Bears' season last year. Was he perfect? No. But think about the hype Darnold got after "surging" (term used lightly) at the end of the 2019 season. What Trubisky did was much more impressive.

Trubisky also has a similar athletic profile to Tannehill (both are "A" athletes at the position, which can cover a lot of other gaps in their games) and like Tannehill in Miami, Trubisky currently "enjoys" a reputation as a bit of a dink-and-dunker operating in a rigid system not well-adapted to his talents. And like Titans for Tannehill, the Bills are a perfect fit for Trubisky's skill set. The big question is will he get an opportunity to show it like Tannehill did. Josh Allen ain't getting benched like Mariota did. Now Tannehill was an "easy" call to win CBPOTY because he was (1) more accurate than Trubisky; (2) had two 4,000 yard seasons under his belt in Miami and nearly a 3rd; and (3) is a touch more athletic than Trubisky. Hence why I say Trubisky has a relatively good chance of becoming "a poor man's Tannehill."

A QB being able to "turn it around" after 3-4 years in the NFL is a long shot in any case. The outliers are so well known because they are outliers. All I'm saying is Trubisky needs to turn about 90 degrees to be going in the right direction while Darnold needs a 180. The Trubisky case for becoming a competent starter is much stronger than for Darnold IMHO.

Think about what you just posted. It's a sad, sad indictment of just how far Sam has fallen off the cliff. Oh, by the way, I agree with you 100%.

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1 hour ago, jgb said:

College was a long time ago for both of these guys. I don't think it has much predictive value any longer versus what we have seen from both in the NFL.

Trubisky has started 12 more games than Darnold and has been many times better. One can (correctly) point out that Darnold was in a worse situation but I don't think we can discount that the shell of Joe Flacco performed better (at worst, equal) to Darnold with the same squad while Foles did worse than Trubisky. Trubisky came in a saved the Bears' season last year. Was he perfect? No. But think about the hype Darnold got after "surging" (term used lightly) at the end of the 2019 season. What Trubisky did was much more impressive.

Trubisky also has a similar athletic profile to Tannehill (both are "A" athletes at the position, which can cover a lot of other gaps in their games) and like Tannehill in Miami, Trubisky currently "enjoys" a reputation as a bit of a dink-and-dunker operating in a rigid system not well-adapted to his talents. And like Titans for Tannehill, the Bills are a perfect fit for Trubisky's skill set. The big question is will he get an opportunity to show it like Tannehill did. Josh Allen ain't getting benched like Mariota did. Now Tannehill was an "easy" call to win CBPOTY because he was (1) more accurate than Trubisky; (2) had two 4,000 yard seasons under his belt in Miami and nearly a 3rd; and (3) is a touch more athletic than Trubisky. Hence why I say Trubisky has a relatively good chance of becoming "a poor man's Tannehill."

A QB being able to "turn it around" after 3-4 years in the NFL is a long shot in any case. The outliers are so well known because they are outliers. All I'm saying is Trubisky needs to turn about 90 degrees to be going in the right direction while Darnold needs a 180. The Trubisky case for becoming a competent starter is much stronger than for Darnold IMHO.

Trubisky sucks.  In his second season he topped out in yardage with all of 3200 yards on a 12 win team.  I dont get the belief that after 4 mediocre seasons hes anything more than a mediocre QB.  Its not Tannehill to the Titans.  For one Tannehill was a much better Qb in Miami.  Se3condly I honestly dont see any similarity to their athletic profiles or more to the point to Trubiskys game nothing that makes him special.  I really see no advantage to Trubiskys physical skills over Darnold.

With Darnold we have the allure that all the talk is true, that he was held back by a team without an OL that could protect, without a running game, without a WR group and maybe most importantly a HC or OC that could gamelan effectively and make the proper adjustments.  If those were the reasons Darnold failed here there is a chance.  But with Trubisky I think more believe the failure is on him.

But thats just me

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51 minutes ago, section314 said:

Think about what you just posted. It's a sad, sad indictment of just how far Sam has fallen off the cliff. Oh, by the way, I agree with you 100%.

I was so stoked when Giants took Barkley. Was not a fan of Mac but I thought we dodged a major bullet (he would've taken Rosen almost certainly) and put him in a position he could not mess up. And he took the right guy. So I thought.

I was wrong. Darnold isn't the guy. He lacks the internal processor to slow the game down. Yes he was in a terrible situation. But his accuracy is at best OK. And he misses/fails to see the few opportunities his weaponz gave him. That's on him. I have not seen any evidence that he can be a turnaround story. 

But who knows. I was wrong about him once, maybe I will be again.

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32 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Trubisky sucks.  In his second season he topped out in yardage with all of 3200 yards on a 12 win team.  I dont get the belief that after 4 mediocre seasons hes anything more than a mediocre QB.  Its not Tannehill to the Titans.  For one Tannehill was a much better Qb in Miami.  Se3condly I honestly dont see any similarity to their athletic profiles or more to the point to Trubiskys game nothing that makes him special.  I really see no advantage to Trubiskys physical skills over Darnold.

With Darnold we have the allure that all the talk is true, that he was held back by a team without an OL that could protect, without a running game, without a WR group and maybe most importantly a HC or OC that could gamelan effectively and make the proper adjustments.  If those were the reasons Darnold failed here there is a chance.  But with Trubisky I think more believe the failure is on him.

But thats just me

Disagreements are what makes messageboards fun. I understand your position and you have the benefit of being in the majority and there is some wisdom in the majority.

Regarding the bad situation stuff -- we can agree Darnold was in a garbage situation without agreeing that it is evidence that he's nevertheless good.

I'm well-known for saying a FQB is obvious. Even on a terrible team. Just never got the "it" vibe from Darnold at all. The team looked the same with Flacco back there -- bad and bad. Sure Darnold is leagues better than Luke Falk but so is Deshonne Kizer.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. But if I was betting on a turnaround for Darnold or Trubisky -- first of all, I wouldn't bet on either without serious odds, QB turnarounds are very rare -- but if forced, I'd bet Trubisky.

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2 hours ago, jgb said:

Disagreements are what makes messageboards fun. I understand your position and you have the benefit of being in the majority and there is some wisdom in the majority.

Regarding the bad situation stuff -- we can agree Darnold was in a garbage situation without agreeing that it is evidence that he's nevertheless good.

I'm well-known for saying a FQB is obvious. Even on a terrible team. Just never got the "it" vibe from Darnold at all. The team looked the same with Flacco back there -- bad and bad. Sure Darnold is leagues better than Luke Falk but so is Deshonne Kizer.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out. But if I was betting on a turnaround for Darnold or Trubisky -- first of all, I wouldn't bet on either without serious odds, QB turnarounds are very rare -- but if forced, I'd bet Trubisky.

Disagreements handled correctly can be a hell of a lot of fun, especially when they’re sports related.  Sports just lends itself to debate.  

Im with you on Darnold.   I like to think that I’ve watched enough football to recognize a FQB even through the haze of Gase and a horrible lack of talent to the offense.  I just didn’t see it last year, which to me was his break or make season.  I wanted to see some improvement, a lightbulb moment where you say “I think he’s getting it”.  Sucks because the best case scenario would have been for him to get it.  
So we’re off to Wilson.  Hopefully this one is it.  We really had no chance but to go this route with Darnold $$$ and our draft position

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  • 1 month later...

Do you think that we need to give a crack at JJ, White or Morgan with the 1st team?  It's only one scrimmage, but still, the rookie needs additional time to be thrown into live action. 

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1 hour ago, Bronx said:

Do you think that we need to give a crack at JJ, White or Morgan with the 1st team?  It's only one scrimmage, but still, the rookie needs additional time to be thrown into live action. 

No

 

taking away reps now is the worst thing to do. 
 

JF and staff made this decision months ago. 
 

 

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1 hour ago, Larz said:

No

 

taking away reps now is the worst thing to do. 
 

JF and staff made this decision months ago. 
 

 

But they also rebuttal bringing a vet QB.  I get it, it was one scrimmage; but missing on open receivers, etc. has to bring some concerns.  Hoping that he can rebound, but it will be a rough ride if this pace continues. I would like to see at least one series from one of the other QBs and see the difference if any,  

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6 minutes ago, Bronx said:

But they also rebuttal bringing a vet QB.  I get it, it was one scrimmage; but missing on open receivers, etc. has to bring some concerns.  Hoping that he can rebound, but it will be a rough ride if this pace continues. I would like to see at least one series from one of the other QBs and see the difference if any,  

Nope. 
 

There are approximately 14 practices until Carolina. 
 

every rep matters. 
 

talk radio ideas are not the way to go now 

 

the pass protection is a bigger problem tbh

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1 hour ago, Larz said:

the pass protection is a bigger problem tbh

That's extremely disappointing especially with the offseason investments. 

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1 minute ago, Bronx said:

That's extremely disappointing especially with the offseason investments. 

Yeah Becton is either still dealing with the foot injury or Lawson is going to break the sack record lol

 

McGovern and GVR are weak points in pass pro 

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On 5/27/2021 at 6:38 AM, Bronx said:

Should there be a QB competition this year or hand off the keys to Wilson? All QBs on the roster are a question mark at this point. We have not seen Morgan or White in action. The Jets were all in on Wilson this off season, but should he be excluded regardless of his draft position?

Saleh is big on competition, "Competition breeds improvement and so there's just going to be a great level of competition," Head Coach Robert Saleh said. He added: "We love the competition."-Saleh

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/hc-robert-saleh-loves-the-competition-especially-in-cornerbacks-room

Wilson has an incredible arm and great instincts, but he should not be excluded from competing. Morgan and White are a mystery and would be intriguing to view their potential this off season.

I don't  see the point in playing Morgan or White in the regular season.  We invested a lot in the OL (finally) and the WR's are a good group. Also we have a lot of RB's who are good at catching passes. I would just throw Zack in there and get him ready to be an NFL player. 

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6 hours ago, Bronx said:

Do you think that we need to give a crack at JJ, White or Morgan with the 1st team?  It's only one scrimmage, but still, the rookie needs additional time to be thrown into live action. 

So you came to that conclusion after 1 bad practice. Got it. I guarantee that every QB in the NFL has a game as bad or worse than Zach yesterday as veterans. 

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Do you think that we need to give a crack at JJ, White or Morgan with the 1st team?  It's only one scrimmage, but still, the rookie needs additional time to be thrown into live action. 
Geez....we are already thinking about pulling him? Really? Is this a joke?

Sent from the NY Jets Training Camp Suicide Watch desk.

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On 5/29/2021 at 11:16 AM, Embrace the Suck said:

This is just masturbation with regard to some ideal of a meritocracy. Earn his starting job? How? By splitting reps with two guys who were on the roster previously who if they had a shot in hell the Jets wouldn't have drafted ZW to begin with? Or by bringing in some has been vet and wasting valuable reps in practice on a dog and pony show for the public? Maybe offer Fitztragic a second chance? ZW needs all the reps he can get. He earned the starting job when the new administration saw him as a perfect fit and decided to pick him number two overall. The Jets are committed to ZW as the starter at this point. If the Jets had a Farve Rodgers situation that would be different.

 

 

100% correct. 

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