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Initial Impression of Saleh: The Anti-Bowles


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49 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Bowles was non-confrontational and didn’t want players who would challenge him, and he and Maccagnan went way out of their way to prioritize bringing in humble, low-maintenance self-starters. It was gross.

It’s cool that Saleh seems ok with a youth movement, but that’s more a reflection of the minimal expectations the org has for this season record-wise, and Douglas not wanting to burn cash on a vet QB and a legit CB1 in an effort to steal another win or two. 

Normally I might agree with that but I really do think he just wants to develop all his own players.

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25 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Normally I might agree with that but I really do think he just wants to develop all his own players.

No doubt, which is exactly what he should do at this stage of his tenure. No harm In letting the young dudes go out and make their mistakes now, when there’s no pressure to accumulate wins. If a CB1 (etc) emerges, they’ll have saved a sh*t-ton of money. The only area where I don’t like this practice is at QB, because they’re in a situation where Zach Wilson *has to* start on Day One, which turns his learning process into an urgent matter with a strictly-defined timeframe. Seems sub-optimal to me, considering how young and sheltered he seems to be. 

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6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

No doubt, which is exactly what he should do at this stage of his tenure. No harm In letting the young dudes go out and make their mistakes now, when there’s no pressure to accumulate wins. If a CB1 (etc) emerges, they’ll have saved a sh*t-ton of money. The only area where I don’t like this practice is at QB, because they’re in a situation where Zach Wilson *has to* start on Day One, which turns his learning process into an urgent matter with a strictly-defined timeframe. Seems sub-optimal to me, considering how young and sheltered he seems to be. 

Yeah I can see that point but by all accounts he has adjusted really well and already being seen as a leader. Always 2 sides to that coin. If they keep a veteran than some will rally around the veteran making it harder on Zach, if they do what they did he goes have to start ready or not but the entire team will be behind him

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

Bowles was non-confrontational and didn’t want players who would challenge him, and he and Maccagnan went way out of their way to prioritize bringing in humble, low-maintenance self-starters. It was gross.

It’s cool that Saleh seems ok with a youth movement, but that’s more a reflection of the minimal expectations the org has for this season record-wise, and Douglas not wanting to burn cash on a vet QB and a legit CB1 in an effort to steal another win or two. 

Got to say, I dont agree with any of this.

 

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6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And if Mahomes OL wasnt decimated by injuries we might be having a different conversation.

Bowles deserves his share of the credit.  As for this time here, he had 4 years, probably 2 too many.  He had a fair chance

Speaking of O-Lineman being injured for K.C....

How many awesome O-Lineman did Macc provide Bowles with? 

Exactly. 

 

 

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13 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Yeah I can see that point but by all accounts he has adjusted really well and already being seen as a leader. Always 2 sides to that coin. If they keep a veteran than some will rally around the veteran making it harder on Zach, if they do what they did he goes have to start ready or not but the entire team will be behind him

But, I mean, we agree that Saleh is more willing than Bowles to give the young guys a shot, so he (hopefully) wouldn’t make the mistake of falling in love with a Fitzpatrick of McCown, and it’d probably do Wilson some good to have to beat out even a marginal vet such as Hoyer or Foles. I like the idea of letting Bless Austin and Bryce Hall take their lumps at CB, but I’m leery of forcing Wilson onto the field if he’s not really ready in a few months.

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55 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Speaking of O-Lineman being injured for K.C....

How many awesome O-Lineman did Macc provide Bowles with? 

Exactly. 

Macc was getting Bowles the DLmen he wanted. 

The OL wasnt the reason sucked as a HC.  Bowles was the reason

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1 hour ago, T0mShane said:

But, I mean, we agree that Saleh is more willing than Bowles to give the young guys a shot, so he (hopefully) wouldn’t make the mistake of falling in love with a Fitzpatrick of McCown, and it’d probably do Wilson some good to have to beat out even a marginal vet such as Hoyer or Foles. I like the idea of letting Bless Austin and Bryce Hall take their lumps at CB, but I’m leery of forcing Wilson onto the field if he’s not really ready in a few months.

My recollection was Fitz was taking a backseat to Geno until the knockout punch. I'm struggling to think of a HC who'd have benched Fitz a year later, after the GM chased him for 6 months, or the year after that who would've started Hackenberg over McCown. Bowles also started an UDFA WR.

Agree on most other positions, though. Then again it's hard to come up with a list of young talents who were buried on the Jets' bench those years.

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9 minutes ago, peebag said:

I'm gonna wait until he coaches his first game before slobbin his knobbin.

Same. I like everything so far, but none of the things so far involve successfully coaching the Jets. Prerequisite for knobbin slobbin. 

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3 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I am still in wait and see mode with Saleh but I cannot lie and say I am not excited about what we have seen so far.

Teams that hire new head coaches tend to hire the opposite of the head coach they had (and if we try and erase the Gase hiring from our minds) they sort of did that 2 years removed from Bowles.

Bowles was low key, Saleh high energy rah rah

 

there going back to the last HC that worked for them... Rex.

now i dont see Saleh wearing any wigs to any press conferences, but hes seems a little bolstered , loud, like Rex.

they both are high energy guys. we will see if this works out. 

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4 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Bowles just led a dominant TB Defense and absolutely best the living crap out of Mahomes to win a SB. 

I always loved Bowles and he never had a chance in hell here in NY.

Did you not watch week 17 against Buffalo in 2015?  One of the worst coached 'must win' game ive EVER seen

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Saleh just seems like a really positive guy. I don’t view him like a Rex type though. He is a high energy guy but Rex was a unique character. Saleh is more  Pete Carroll.

I don’t think he’s the anti Bowles either. From an energy perspective, yes. But both come off as player coaches.

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5 hours ago, Jet hustle said:

Did you not watch week 17 against Buffalo in 2015?  One of the worst coached 'must win' game ive EVER seen

He should have been fired after that game IMHO. Inexcusable

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9 hours ago, T0mShane said:

No doubt, which is exactly what he should do at this stage of his tenure. No harm In letting the young dudes go out and make their mistakes now, when there’s no pressure to accumulate wins. If a CB1 (etc) emerges, they’ll have saved a sh*t-ton of money. The only area where I don’t like this practice is at QB, because they’re in a situation where Zach Wilson *has to* start on Day One, which turns his learning process into an urgent matter with a strictly-defined timeframe. Seems sub-optimal to me, considering how young and sheltered he seems to be. 

I think it dovetails with the drafting strategy on defense.  Bring in a lot of guys, see who emerges and go with them. And since they’re not worried about getting canned after this year they won’t feel the pressing need to play vets and keep more talented rooks on the bench.  

Also contrast this with the circus on Jax where Tebow is again and already the headliner there despite Lawrence being the #1 pick.  

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26 minutes ago, billo83 said:

He should have been fired after that game IMHO. Inexcusable

His QB threw 4 ints....

He wasn't out there throwing those passes.  That game was on Fitz more than anything else.

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@FidelioJet thank you. 
 

Bowles had the worst GM in the league coupled with eventually erratic, at best, QB play how was he supposed to win?

Couple that with having (his fault) a terrible assistant coaching staff in general and the guy had no chance.  The Jets fired Bowles at the and of the day because he refused to get rid of his poorly performing DC. 

Now Saleh’s staff on paper is a thousand times that of Bowles and the communication is already a thousand times better with JD then Bowles ever had with Mac (Mac never consulted Bowles about any draft pick). 

At the end of the day let’s all hope that Saleh lives up to our collective expectations that’s all. 

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12 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I am still in wait and see mode with Saleh but I cannot lie and say I am not excited about what we have seen so far.

Teams that hire new head coaches tend to hire the opposite of the head coach they had (and if we try and erase the Gase hiring from our minds) they sort of did that 2 years removed from Bowles.

Bowles was low key, Saleh high energy rah rah

Saleh seems to be a CEO type guy whereas Bowles was a glorified DC

Scheme wise on defense especially a 180 from Bowles.

But what I wanted to talk about and the biggest difference I see is in terms of his players.

Bowles wanted veterans. He trusted them and would play veterans even when a younger player was actually better. He insisted on the "competition" model with QBs that meant that the eventual starter got way less reps and less 1st team reps in OTAs and camps (yes I know some here prefer this)

But the more I hear from Saleh the more I realize he is the exact opposite. He flat out said that bringing in a Vet CB will take away snaps from his young guys.  He wants young players that he can develop. I find this incredibly exciting personally because I think it is the right way to go. Long term you will be a better team.

On the QB, JD strongly hinted in some of his press conferences that they are not in any rush to get a veteran QB, if they ever do. I believe this comes from Saleh. In the OTAs Zach got every single first team rep. Under Bowles Darnold was getting the fewest reps and the third string ones at that. (as a result of the competition thing. He really wants to roll with young guys and personally I love it.

Those expecting a vet QB and more CB signings may be disappointed. We are a different team than we have ever been in pretty much every way. Completely different offensive and defensive schemes, different drafting philosophy, preference for younger guys, value signings in free agency.

Like I said about Wilson himself. it just feels different.

There’s stuff in here that is just not accurate.

Darnold always got the most snaps when he came in. Maye and Adams both started from day 1. Geno was supposed to start of Fitz. Brandon Shell was a fifth rounder who played very early on. Robby Anderson emerged as a UDFA rookie and Jalin Marshall was slated for a starting role until he fumbled every time he touched the ball. Bowles weaknesses were in game planning and management, the rest is just narrative. 

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9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Same. I like everything so far, but none of the things so far involve successfully coaching the Jets. Prerequisite for knobbin slobbin. 

I guess I'm becoming a prude in my old age but I find this offensive.  I know you're only quoting someone else but I wish people would use their words rather that offensive images.  (climbs down off his soapbox)

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13 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I am still in wait and see mode with Saleh but I cannot lie and say I am not excited about what we have seen so far.

Teams that hire new head coaches tend to hire the opposite of the head coach they had (and if we try and erase the Gase hiring from our minds) they sort of did that 2 years removed from Bowles.

Bowles was low key, Saleh high energy rah rah

Saleh seems to be a CEO type guy whereas Bowles was a glorified DC

Scheme wise on defense especially a 180 from Bowles.

But what I wanted to talk about and the biggest difference I see is in terms of his players.

Bowles wanted veterans. He trusted them and would play veterans even when a younger player was actually better. He insisted on the "competition" model with QBs that meant that the eventual starter got way less reps and less 1st team reps in OTAs and camps (yes I know some here prefer this)

But the more I hear from Saleh the more I realize he is the exact opposite. He flat out said that bringing in a Vet CB will take away snaps from his young guys.  He wants young players that he can develop. I find this incredibly exciting personally because I think it is the right way to go. Long term you will be a better team.

On the QB, JD strongly hinted in some of his press conferences that they are not in any rush to get a veteran QB, if they ever do. I believe this comes from Saleh. In the OTAs Zach got every single first team rep. Under Bowles Darnold was getting the fewest reps and the third string ones at that. (as a result of the competition thing. He really wants to roll with young guys and personally I love it.

Those expecting a vet QB and more CB signings may be disappointed. We are a different team than we have ever been in pretty much every way. Completely different offensive and defensive schemes, different drafting philosophy, preference for younger guys, value signings in free agency.

Like I said about Wilson himself. it just feels different.

To be fair to Bowles, he’s clearly a very good DC, just wasn’t a strong enough personality to be an effective HC and his reliance on vets was maddening, You can argue that’s down to not trusting the talent he was being given by Maccagnan and while there’s some merit in that argument, a good coach needs to be able to be flexible enough to work with what they have. 


I also feel like it’s obvious how much more we are on the same page between Douglas and the scouting dept and Saleh and the coaching dept. ....maybe I’m wrong but it does feel like the two are getting together and saying ‘we like these types of guys for our system and our culture” and the FO has gone out and actually acquired them. There does seem to be a proper joined up plan going on here

that said, as @Warfish pointed out....it’s all puff and wonderful at this time of the season.....let’s see if the plan survives intact after they start getting punched in the mouth

I do agree though, it feels way more positive this time, it feels like the early days under Rex.....it feels like we might actually be fun to watch

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12 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

And Bowles was the anti-Rex, who was the anti-Mangini, who was the anti-Herm. Wheeeeeeeeeeee

Bowles was framed!

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18 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

And Bowles was the anti-Rex, who was the anti-Mangini, who was the anti-Herm. Wheeeeeeeeeeee

Yeah, beat me to it here.  It's such a ridiculous concept that around here with every new hire, some become desperate to try to paint one coach as the opposite extreme of another, as if that will fix everything.  Like it really comes to mean anything and at this point the Jets haven't failed miserably with every different variation of coach out there.

Meanwhile, the only thing Saleh and Bowles truly have that is completely different is their sideline demeanor, which is also the one thing that has been shown to be the most meaningless of all traits for coaches.  Other than that, there is some highly questionable revisionist history behind thrown around here in order to try to force a narrative.

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2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

There’s stuff in here that is just not accurate.

Darnold always got the most snaps when he came in. Maye and Adams both started from day 1. Geno was supposed to start of Fitz. Brandon Shell was a fifth rounder who played very early on. Robby Anderson emerged as a UDFA rookie and Jalin Marshall was slated for a starting role until he fumbled every time he touched the ball. Bowles weaknesses were in game planning and management, the rest is just narrative. 

And why in the world are we comparing Bowles to Saleh when he wasn't the HC of the Jets for the last two years?

Why is he the whipping post?

Gase was a firebrand?

I don't get it; Bowles at least had the Jets competitive at times while Gase had some of the worst games I have ever seen and that includes the Kotite years.

So why a Bowels comparison?  

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I think Bowles is a very good DC who hit his Peter Principal as a HC here.  Not saying he can't do better the next time around (see Belichick in CLE vs. NE) but despite some challenges he had here, he repeatedly showed a lack of ability to raise the level of play in games when things didn't start out well.  Bad clock management, bad situational awareness, and no apparent ability to 'rally the troops'.  I'm not even talking about his 'Walking Dead' press conferences.  I just don't recall seeing him exhibit any emotion on the sideline at times when I think the team needed to see something.

Having said all that, i would take him back in a heartbeat over Gase.  Gase belongs in the same room as Kotite and Handley.  Just abysmal in almost every single capacity. 

There are HCs who can do well with a good team, but are incapable of elevating a bad team.  That's fine if you have a great GM and a great roster.   But that never lasts.  Rex could will a victory now and then, but was lacking in some of the other basic skills you need to be successful.  It's a rare combination.  I really hope we have something close to it in Saleh.  Time will tell. 

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2 hours ago, redlichtie said:

To be fair to Bowles, he’s clearly a very good DC, just wasn’t a strong enough personality to be an effective HC and his reliance on vets was maddening, You can argue that’s down to not trusting the talent he was being given by Maccagnan and while there’s some merit in that argument, a good coach needs to be able to be flexible enough to work with what they have. 


I also feel like it’s obvious how much more we are on the same page between Douglas and the scouting dept and Saleh and the coaching dept. ....maybe I’m wrong but it does feel like the two are getting together and saying ‘we like these types of guys for our system and our culture” and the FO has gone out and actually acquired them. There does seem to be a proper joined up plan going on here

that said, as @Warfish pointed out....it’s all puff and wonderful at this time of the season.....let’s see if the plan survives intact after they start getting punched in the mouth

I do agree though, it feels way more positive this time, it feels like the early days under Rex.....it feels like we might actually be fun to watch

"Everyone's got a plan until they get punched in the face". Mike Tyson

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14 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Bowles just led a dominant TB Defense and absolutely best the living crap out of Mahomes to win a SB. 

I always loved Bowles and he never had a chance in hell here in NY.

Some of that is true, but he was also a dumbass as a HC. So there's that too.

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