Jamison Crowder - Not @ OTA's due to "contract" per Saleh

[doitny]

i told you guys Crowder was gone. you will see its all a numbers game. and not his salary. its playing time

Davis and Cole signed here to be 1 and 2.

Mims and Moore are kids who have to play to develop. 

so what do you do with Crowder? you make him a 3 and he hurts the kids progress. he sits back as a 4 or 5 and he gets no playing time. now JD might want that for 7 mil or less but is it worth it for Crowder to stay here and watch his numbers go down? no. 

i know some of you want Crowder here to help develop Wilson, but we also have Mims and Moore to develop too. and they cant afford to sit the bench .

 

[Jetsfan80]

11 hours ago, SayNoToDMC said:

I think he earned his salary this year by being the only Jet who didn't seem to get the tank memo last season. I say pay him if they're bickering over money and I'm not the sentimental type with this. I wouldn't extend him, cut him or fight over salary. Who better for Elijah Moore to learn from for a year?

That said if you're going to dick around on reducing his salary this year, cut him and let him go get a 3 year deal someplace else. He was basically the last trooper during Gase's final season. I respected him more than anyone else on the team last year

It's not a situation where the Jets win and Crowder loses by moving money around.  They can give him a pay cut but convert the entire salary into guaranteed money, so that Crowder receives job security that he'll be here the full season (and possibly into 2022 as well if they wish to restructure it that way) while still making more than he'd get on the open market.

This isn't rocket science or dirty business here.  Douglas did exactly this with Alex Lewis last week.  It's just good business, and it works out for both sides.  Everyone knows Crowder is overpaid.  Even Crowder and his agent know this, and they'll negotiate in good faith knowing that Crowder remaining a Jet is the best possible outcome. 

Crowder being cut would NOT be doing him or the Jets any favors.  That's a mutually non-beneficial outcome, since the Jets don't need ALL of Crowder's cap dollars to sign another decent FA or 2, and they don't need the roster spot just yet either.  Elijah Moore looks more than capable of being an outside WR rather than a pure slot, so Crowder won't necessarily be stealing too many snaps from the kid.

[Jetluv58]

20 hours ago, kthisguy said:

This will be a terrible move if he’s not back. WRs generally do not breakout year one with a good veteran QB let alone a rookie.

Pay the man there is a ton of cap room. This is a penny wise pound foolish move. Keep the solid veteran who plays and plays hard to show the young QB and WRs how to prepare.

Also where are the posters with the “they signed the contract pay him” as you have with the hold outs.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

Agree. Don’t want him to go the way of Robbie and excel elsewhere. Pay him. 

[Defense Wins Championships]

13 hours ago, doitny said:

i told you guys Crowder was gone. you will see its all a numbers game. and not his salary. its playing time

Davis and Cole signed here to be 1 and 2.

Mims and Moore are kids who have to play to develop. 

so what do you do with Crowder? you make him a 3 and he hurts the kids progress. he sits back as a 4 or 5 and he gets no playing time. now JD might want that for 7 mil or less but is it worth it for Crowder to stay here and watch his numbers go down? no. 

i know some of you want Crowder here to help develop Wilson, but we also have Mims and Moore to develop too. and they cant afford to sit the bench .

 

There is no way Cole is our #2. 

 

He's our #5 behind Davis, Mims, Elijah and Crowder. 

[Jethead]

1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

There is no way Cole is our #2. 

 

He's our #5 behind Davis, Mims, Elijah and Crowder. 

Dude, Cole is a legit, proven talent. Mims is still a wannabe. He may open the season as WR5.

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

There is no way Cole is our #2. 

 

He's our #5 behind Davis, Mims, Elijah and Crowder. 

you could be right when its all said and done after preseason, i just dont see him at the end of the bench. 

well he will be #4 after Crowder goes. 

[Jet Nut]

16 hours ago, doitny said:

i told you guys Crowder was gone. you will see its all a numbers game. and not his salary. its playing time

 

Odd comment since the Jets are trying to keep him here.   Dont think you should he high fiving yourself over the prediction

Theyre obviously trying to keep him here because they want him here.  

It comes down to this, his role has shrunk after FA and the draft and while hes not worth the 11M to keep him here they want him here to help Zach

[doitny]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Odd comment since the Jets are trying to keep him here.   Dont think you should he high fiving yourself over the prediction

Theyre obviously trying to keep him here because they want him here.  

It comes down to this, his role has shrunk after FA and the draft and while hes not worth the 11M to keep him here they want him here to help Zach

yes they want him.... for much less money.

and even then he will probably be a cap cut at the end of training camp. somebody will be cut that we need at a position more than WR, maybe CB and they will spend Crowders money towards that.

or

Crowder refuses the to restructure his contract and gets cut now. hes not dumb. he can get the same reduced contract with more playing time somewhere else. 

that guy went from #1 to #5. 

one way or another i dont think Crowder is on this team in Sept. 

 

[Jet Nut]

19 hours ago, doitny said:

i told you guys Crowder was gone. you will see its all a numbers game. and not his salary. its playing time

 

 

37 minutes ago, doitny said:

yes they want him.... for much less money.

?

[Jetsfan80]

7 hours ago, Jethead said:

Dude, Cole is a legit, proven talent. Mims is still a wannabe. He may open the season as WR5.

I get the feeling that people who keep throwing shade at Mims only looked at a stat sheet and didn’t actually pay attention to how he looked on the field. 

[Jethead]

7 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I get the feeling that people who keep throwing shade at Mims only looked at a stat sheet and didn’t actually pay attention to how he looked on the field. 

You have to admit it was a pretty rare sight. Hoping for a big jump this year. He sure looks like Tarzan.

[FidelioJet]

8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I get the feeling that people who keep throwing shade at Mims only looked at a stat sheet and didn’t actually pay attention to how he looked on the field. 

To me he looked very stiff and seemed to play slow.   

I'm hoping that was because he was still learning.  Hopefully the game slows down for him.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

20 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's not a situation where the Jets win and Crowder loses by moving money around.  They can give him a pay cut but convert the entire salary into guaranteed money, so that Crowder receives job security that he'll be here the full season (and possibly into 2022 as well if they wish to restructure it that way) while still making more than he'd get on the open market.

This isn't rocket science or dirty business here.  Douglas did exactly this with Alex Lewis last week.  It's just good business, and it works out for both sides.  Everyone knows Crowder is overpaid.  Even Crowder and his agent know this, and they'll negotiate in good faith knowing that Crowder remaining a Jet is the best possible outcome. 

Crowder being cut would NOT be doing him or the Jets any favors.  That's a mutually non-beneficial outcome, since the Jets don't need ALL of Crowder's cap dollars to sign another decent FA or 2, and they don't need the roster spot just yet either.  Elijah Moore looks more than capable of being an outside WR rather than a pure slot, so Crowder won't necessarily be stealing too many snaps from the kid.

In terms of need, the Jets don't need any of Crowder's cap dollars to sign another decent FA or two. 

It doesn't benefit any of the fans, and really doesn't free up any serious ability to do anything else, if/when Crowder's salary is adjusted down. It's that they expect him to be more of a role player than one of the QB's top two targets.

It's poor optics, and can make for poor morale, when a QB's 4th or 5th target carries the roster's highest base salary by contract (barely second-highest with Maye's franchise tag, and yes it's lower still when signing bonus is factored in). 

I don't think the adjustment has to be major, down to $6MM or anything, because he's arguably better off turning that down. But there's some wiggle room in the $7MM range. He might not be able to get $6MM elsewhere this summer, but at least he'd get to pick his choice of teams to up his dollars for FA: he'll be 28 in March 2022 & 29 when the season starts. Plenty young enough for a slot receiver when jet-burning sub-4.4 speed was never his game in the first place.

At some point he's better off betting on himself, since the Jets not only have so many targets, but so many young targets with a longer future who'll win tie breakers for planned targets. Don't discount LaFleur is unlikely to use the TE like Gase, and the backs barely got any targets last year either. So while sure it's possible, barring injuries Crowder's unlikely to have another 800-900 yard season with the '21 Jets. 

I still want him here, but - unfortunately for Crowder - the Jets are in a good negotiating position. If he plays hardball too much and gets released, with nobody's slot receiver's injured yet he's going to find a sucky FA market in June, and might have to wait for someone to get hurt in August to get >$5MM for the season. 

[Sperm Edwards]

On 6/5/2021 at 1:50 AM, doitny said:

i told you guys Crowder was gone. you will see its all a numbers game. and not his salary. its playing time

Davis and Cole signed here to be 1 and 2.

Mims and Moore are kids who have to play to develop. 

so what do you do with Crowder? you make him a 3 and he hurts the kids progress. he sits back as a 4 or 5 and he gets no playing time. now JD might want that for 7 mil or less but is it worth it for Crowder to stay here and watch his numbers go down? no. 

i know some of you want Crowder here to help develop Wilson, but we also have Mims and Moore to develop too. and they cant afford to sit the bench .

 

I get what you're saying but that's too much planning, and they're players not chess pieces. I just disagree that his presence "hurts" the progress of younger players. He provides competition with another solid, hard-working veteran in the locker room. Further, Crowder's got one year left, which is more or less ideal: you've got 2-3 question marks that'll be less question-marky as the season progresses.

And yes, developing Wilson >>>>>>>> getting some other WR ~10% more snaps. This isn't remotely like even-splitting the QB snaps a rookie QB needs.

Meanwhile I wouldn't be an advocate for handing any young WR a starting job. If any of them can't beat out Crowder, then they shouldn't be starting yet.  

The only possibility of Crowder affecting Mims's playing time is that Moore takes Mims's starting job away instead of Crowder's. IMO if that happens, so be it. Mims hasn't earned a free pass, and think it's poor planning to simply give it to him just because we like his upside better. I want to see Mims turn into a damn solid starter for us for years but he still should have to earn it, and as it stands he's coming off a 350-yard, 0-touchdown rookie season where he spent more time in the trainer's room than suiting up. 

In such a scenario, this team wouldn't be in terrible shape if Crowder is the slot receiver this year and the next year or two beyond (Davis-Moore-Crowder in 3 WR sets). He's a good player. 

It'd be very easy for the Jets to do nothing with Crowder yet, and then if/when someone else beats him out simply cut Crowder or come to him for a bigger pay cut at that time. In the meantime, if one of them gets injured, then Crowder isn't someone who hasn't shown he belongs on the field (when he isn't injured himself, lol): he absolutely does. So I hope they do come to an agreement.

Douglas can offer Crowder a cut down with incentives, but I don't like that either with someone like him. Then he'll be justifiably bitter if his number's not getting called, since that directly costs him money this season (on top of lowering his $ value as a FA after the season). 

[Rangers9]

I like Crowder but thought his effectiveness was off some last season and not sure we need him esp for 10 mil per season. We drafted Elijah Moore who can fill that position. Moore btw has been looking very good in practice. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, Jethead said:

You have to admit it was a pretty rare sight. Hoping for a big jump this year. He sure looks like Tarzan.

It was only a rare sight because of his QB.  When Flacco was under center, he looked like one of the top 6-7 or so WRs from his class.  

He has blazing speed for his size.  He needs someone who can throw the deep ball.  Darnold had no ability to do this, hence why Robby Anderson is going to be really sad next season.  Flacco, even at 35 and with one foot in retirement, did, and we saw the results:  2 very solid, impressive games out of Mims.

[doitny]

6 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I get what you're saying but that's too much planning, and they're players not chess pieces. I just disagree that his presence "hurts" the progress of younger players. He provides competition with another solid, hard-working veteran in the locker room. Further, Crowder's got one year left, which is more or less ideal: you've got 2-3 question marks that'll be less question-marky as the season progresses.

And yes, developing Wilson >>>>>>>> getting some other WR ~10% more snaps. This isn't remotely like even-splitting the QB snaps a rookie QB needs.

Meanwhile I wouldn't be an advocate for handing any young WR a starting job. If any of them can't beat out Crowder, then they shouldn't be starting yet.  

The only possibility of Crowder affecting Mims's playing time is that Moore takes Mims's starting job away instead of Crowder's. IMO if that happens, so be it. Mims hasn't earned a free pass, and think it's poor planning to simply give it to him just because we like his upside better. I want to see Mims turn into a damn solid starter for us for years but he still should have to earn it, and as it stands he's coming off a 350-yard, 0-touchdown rookie season where he spent more time in the trainer's room than suiting up. 

In such a scenario, this team wouldn't be in terrible shape if Crowder is the slot receiver this year and the next year or two beyond (Davis-Moore-Crowder in 3 WR sets). He's a good player. 

It'd be very easy for the Jets to do nothing with Crowder yet, and then if/when someone else beats him out simply cut Crowder or come to him for a bigger pay cut at that time. In the meantime, if one of them gets injured, then Crowder isn't someone who hasn't shown he belongs on the field (when he isn't injured himself, lol): he absolutely does. So I hope they do come to an agreement.

Douglas can offer Crowder a cut down with incentives, but I don't like that either with someone like him. Then he'll be justifiably bitter if his number's not getting called, since that directly costs him money this season (on top of lowering his $ value as a FA after the season). 

he only hurts there progress if he starts. and if hes here i fully expect him to be starting. along with Davis and Cole.

i think the plan was always to have Davis, Cole and Mims as the top 3. and let Crowder go. then we drafted Moore. now i see Crowder gone even more.

Crowder is not our future. Mims and Moore are, or at least we hope so. we need to see who they are, especially Mims who is in his 2nd year. i don't know how much we can see of them at 4 or 5. in fact the 5th guy whoever it is should probably go to the practice squad cause they wont see any time barring injuries.

if were going to break the young guys in now is the time. 

i don't want to give anyone a job either, that's why you release Crowder so Moore or Mims has to win the #3 spot. they then get valuable PT. otherwise next year Crowder and probably Cole are gone. so we have 2 rookies basically to start next year. 

see where me and you differ is i have Cole as a starter. i don't believe he came here not to start.  

Wilson doesn't need Crowder to help him. he got enough weapons. if he needs 5 good WRs then he sucks. Sam Darnold needs that. hopefully Wilson does not.

and its not just the Jets. i think Crowder sees the writing on the wall. Moore wasn't draft 2nd to sit at the end of the bench. Cole and Davis didn't sign here not to start. we got to play Mims to see what hes got. Crowder is 28, do you think he wants to see less PT and his stats go down?

i don't care if he takes less money, ..... if JD tells us he loves him.... either now or at the final cut hes gone.

 

[kthisguy]

I am not sure where the Cole is a better player. At this point, Crowder and Cole are the same age and Cole just had his best season and that was still close to being an average year for Crowder. Perhaps the mistake was signing Cole prior to the draft. He really should be fighting Moore for playing time.

As a fan with a team with a load of cap room just pay the man. Let them battle it out in training camp. Put the best team out there for Wilson. Crowder is a solid known quantity who preformed well with a terrible QB and line the last two years. With the NFL today keep all quality players due to possible injuries.

Cutting him now, would also set a bad precedent for veteran free agents as the Jets could have cut him early in the cycle and allow him to hook on with another team. Agents and players see this and will take note. I like JD but this was poorly played.


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[Sperm Edwards]

30 minutes ago, doitny said:

he only hurts there progress if he starts. and if hes here i fully expect him to be starting. along with Davis and Cole.

i think the plan was always to have Davis, Cole and Mims as the top 3. and let Crowder go. then we drafted Moore. now i see Crowder gone even more.

Crowder is not our future. Mims and Moore are, or at least we hope so. we need to see who they are, especially Mims who is in his 2nd year. i don't know how much we can see of them at 4 or 5. in fact the 5th guy whoever it is should probably go to the practice squad cause they wont see any time barring injuries.

if were going to break the young guys in now is the time. 

i don't want to give anyone a job either, that's why you release Crowder so Moore or Mims has to win the #3 spot. they then get valuable PT. otherwise next year Crowder and probably Cole are gone. so we have 2 rookies basically to start next year. 

see where me and you differ is i have Cole as a starter. i don't believe he came here not to start.  

Wilson doesn't need Crowder to help him. he got enough weapons. if he needs 5 good WRs then he sucks. Sam Darnold needs that. hopefully Wilson does not.

and its not just the Jets. i think Crowder sees the writing on the wall. Moore wasn't draft 2nd to sit at the end of the bench. Cole and Davis didn't sign here not to start. we got to play Mims to see what hes got. Crowder is 28, do you think he wants to see less PT and his stats go down?

i don't care if he takes less money, ..... if JD tells us he loves him.... either now or at the final cut hes gone.

 

I understand where you're coming from. I just disagree with it.

You can't credibly say in one breath that you don't want to give anyone a job, and in the next de facto say just that. Like believing in competition, so long as the competition isn't too competitive: the only competition the inexperienced Mims & Moore should have is with each other, lest one of them prove less worthy of being on the field than Crowder (or Cole). 

The goal of the team is to put the best roster on the field, not to have season-long tryouts & live-game practices. Especially at WR, where guys can work their way into getting more playing time. It's not like QB or OL where they either get 100% snap counts or 0%.

Also if the obvious plan was to let Crowder go, then they'd have already done so instead of bothering to work out a lower contract. Far more likely they do want him to be here; just not at a $10MM salary. I'm less concerned about the dollars myself, since he's not going to take a $7MM pay cut or anything, but I can see how that'd be bad optics (and if/when he does retain the slot job, Douglas won't be able to then approach him for a shave).

If they don't come to an agreement on a pay cut then I expect him to be released. If they do, then his roster spot is going to get guaranteed; Crowder's not going to agree to a pay cut and still allow himself to be cuttable; he'd rather just get released now.

Also I think you're overrating Cole, who isn't any younger than Crowder - actually he's older - and isn't locked up here for any longer than Crowder. They're both UFAs after the season. I think Cole is fine & he was a nice pickup but don't think he's a better player than Crowder. I also have real doubts they'd have added him at all if they knew they were going to draft Moore in round 2. 

It's quite possible - maybe probable - that the best 3WR set the Jets can put on the field this year is Davis-Moore-Crowder.

[BigRy56]

I’d prefer to keep him but if you told me the idea was to move Crowder to open up cap for Morgan Moses and Steven Nelson, I’d be in

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, kthisguy said:

I am not sure where the Cole is a better player. At this point, Crowder and Cole are the same age and Cole just had his best season and that was still close to being an average year for Crowder. Perhaps the mistake was signing Cole prior to the draft. He really should be fighting Moore for playing time.

As a fan with a team with a load of cap room just pay the man. Let them battle it out in training camp. Put the best team out there for Wilson. Crowder is a solid known quantity who preformed well with a terrible QB and line the last two years. With the NFL today keep all quality players due to possible injuries.

Cutting him now, would also set a bad precedent for veteran free agents as the Jets could have cut him early in the cycle and allow him to hook on with another team. Agents and players see this and will take note. I like JD but this was poorly played.


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Agree with all of this. I doubt very much if they knew then what they know now that Cole would've even been signed in the first place.

I don't know that this is even the best time to approach Crowder, and it would make sense that he's only doing it because he believes Crowder will separate as the top slot receiver (at least to start the season). Ahead of Cole, and probably ahead of Moore, at least to start the season (unless Moore ends up taking Mims's job instead).

Anyway once it's made obvious during July-Aug practices that Crowder's the team's top slot receiver, it'd be a lot harder to get the player to take any pay shave. The optics of that - knowingly going with an inferior starter over such a small amount of money - would be worse than the optics of Crowder getting the 4th or 5th-most targets but having the highest base salary of all players on offense.

If Douglas was so confident that Crowder would lose his job to Cole and/or Moore, then there's no need to bother with a pay cut demand. In that case it'd make more sense to cut him now, or frankly to just wait until he's buried below Cole and/or Moore, and give him the pay cut in exchange for guaranteed money on Aug 31st when everyone else's depth chart & summers are over. 

[Sperm Edwards]

6 minutes ago, BigRy56 said:

I’d prefer to keep him but if you told me the idea was to move Crowder to open up cap for Morgan Moses and Steven Nelson, I’d be in

There's no need to do that, though. If they want Moses and/or Nelson, they can fit both just fine without touching Crowder's contract. This is more that they think he's overpaid for his production - which I'd agree with - but like you I wouldn't want to lose him over a couple million when the team is so flush with cap space. 

They've got somewhere in the $25-30MM cap space neighborhood right now. About $10MM of that will go to rookies. Unless Moses and Nelson would both be signed for 1-year deals, they can spread some of their hits to next year when they're going to have more space than they'd know what to do with (when they'll be entering another draft where they're doubled-up in picks, in rounds 1, 2, 5, and 6).

Right now they've got some $70-75MM in space next year, and that's assuming they keep all of Fant, McGovern, GVR, and Griffin (another $25MM among the four of them). Take some space away for Maye, but it still leaves a bundle.

[Jets723]

On 6/6/2021 at 12:17 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

I get the feeling that people who keep throwing shade at Mims only looked at a stat sheet and didn’t actually pay attention to how he looked on the field. 

Exactly.  Plus his stats were pretty good considering he missed a good amount of time with the injury 

[rangerous]

On 6/4/2021 at 11:30 AM, kdels62 said:

Add 2 years, guarantee him 8 million over 3 years and lower his cap hit this year to 5.5million and keep him on board next year for another 6 million. Boom! We get cap relief and depth, he gets guarantees and some extra money.

well, imo that sounds good on paper but keeping him means they're not going to give the younger guys enough reps and it's not like you can put crowder on specials.  so he's there to be a slot receiver.  i don't disagree with extending him since he has been pretty decent.

[Jet Nut]

10 hours ago, kthisguy said:

At this point, Crowder and Cole are the same age and Cole just had his best season and that was still close to being an average year for Crowder.

Coles best season was the last year that Bortles was good.  In 2017 he had 750 yards @ 17 yds per in 6 starts.  If hes that WR with a decent QB hes not Crowder.  

[Dunnie]

Exactly.  Plus his stats were pretty good considering he missed a good amount of time with the injury 

Mims was on the field ?? Must have been while I was in the head.

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[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Coles best season was the last year that Bortles was good.  In 2017 he had 750 yards @ 17 yds per in 6 starts.  If hes that WR with a decent QB hes not Crowder.  

It was also the season their top 2 wideouts missed significant time (Robinson missing the last 15 games outright). He's had hands problems most of his career, which is my biggest concern. Once Robinson left for Chicago he should have seen a lot more balls (hey now) than he did in 2018. He outright lost his job in 2019 & was relegated to reserve. In 2020 he was really the only slot receiver on the roster, when they called over 650 pass plays, mostly from a weak-armed QB who'd unsurprisingly target a shorter-route receiver plenty.

He's definitely solid depth - experienced, some productive history, and not terribly expensive - but I wouldn't expect to see him starting. The best thing he has going for him is Crowder's contract being too high, and the real possibility he might get released for that reason alone. Even then Cole's indirectly in a competition with Mims, though they play different positions, since absent Crowder I'd figure Moore to take job of the weaker of the two this summer so the team can put its best 3 on the field together.

If Crowder comes to an agreement with the team, and the Jets' receivers all enjoy relatively good health for a change, imo Cole will look like a wasted signing. Even more so if his guaranteed $5MM is the reason they didn't sign some serious insurance at tackle, the way Becton's spring has started.

But if it doesn't cause them to decide against another player they truly covet, I'm all for having more rather than less at WR. I've had it up to here with not enough wepponz as a reason for a young QB's excuses. If it's a little wasteful on paper, so be it. It's not like this team has 5 high-end starters in need of big-money extensions this year & next. 

[rangerous]

11 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I understand where you're coming from. I just disagree with it.

You can't credibly say in one breath that you don't want to give anyone a job, and in the next de facto say just that. Like believing in competition, so long as the competition isn't too competitive: the only competition the inexperienced Mims & Moore should have is with each other, lest one of them prove less worthy of being on the field than Crowder (or Cole). 

The goal of the team is to put the best roster on the field, not to have season-long tryouts & live-game practices. Especially at WR, where guys can work their way into getting more playing time. It's not like QB or OL where they either get 100% snap counts or 0%.

Also if the obvious plan was to let Crowder go, then they'd have already done so instead of bothering to work out a lower contract. Far more likely they do want him to be here; just not at a $10MM salary. I'm less concerned about the dollars myself, since he's not going to take a $7MM pay cut or anything, but I can see how that'd be bad optics (and if/when he does retain the slot job, Douglas won't be able to then approach him for a shave).

If they don't come to an agreement on a pay cut then I expect him to be released. If they do, then his roster spot is going to get guaranteed; Crowder's not going to agree to a pay cut and still allow himself to be cuttable; he'd rather just get released now.

Also I think you're overrating Cole, who isn't any younger than Crowder - actually he's older - and isn't locked up here for any longer than Crowder. They're both UFAs after the season. I think Cole is fine & he was a nice pickup but don't think he's a better player than Crowder. I also have real doubts they'd have added him at all if they knew they were going to draft Moore in round 2. 

It's quite possible - maybe probable - that the best 3WR set the Jets can put on the field this year is Davis-Moore-Crowder.

i said something similar about impeding the younger player progress.  i don't think it would be an issue this season but if they choose to extend crowder then i think it could.  and the problem with keeping crowder beyond his current contract is that he's not going to play specials and he'd be at a pretty high salary level for what would be a role player.

[JoJoTownsell1]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

It was also the season their top 2 wideouts missed significant time (Robinson missing the last 15 games outright). He's had hands problems most of his career, which is my biggest concern. Once Robinson left for Chicago he should have seen a lot more balls (hey now) than he did in 2018. He outright lost his job in 2019 & was relegated to reserve. In 2020 he was really the only slot receiver on the roster, when they called over 650 pass plays, mostly from a weak-armed QB who'd unsurprisingly target a shorter-route receiver plenty.

He's definitely solid depth - experienced, some productive history, and not terribly expensive - but I wouldn't expect to see him starting. The best thing he has going for him is Crowder's contract being too high, and the real possibility he might get released for that reason alone. Even then Cole's indirectly in a competition with Mims, though they play different positions, since absent Crowder I'd figure Moore to take job of the weaker of the two this summer so the team can put its best 3 on the field together.

If Crowder comes to an agreement with the team, and the Jets' receivers all enjoy relatively good health for a change, imo Cole will look like a wasted signing. Even more so if his guaranteed $5MM is the reason they didn't sign some serious insurance at tackle, the way Becton's spring has started.

But if it doesn't cause them to decide against another player they truly covet, I'm all for having more rather than less at WR. I've had it up to here with not enough wepponz as a reason for a young QB's excuses. If it's a little wasteful on paper, so be it. It's not like this team has 5 high-end starters in need of big-money extensions this year & next. 

Jets still have plenty of cap space so you can never argue that Cole prevented them from signing a tackle. 

It's true that if Davis becomes a #1 and Mims/Moore blossom into young studs we won't really see too much of Cole. But that is why Cole was signed as insurance. It would be like saying getting health insurance was a bad idea last year because you never got sick. We all complained about the lack of depth at WR the last few years now we are complaining about having too much depth. I guess that's a pretty good sign. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

5 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i said something similar about impeding the younger player progress.  i don't think it would be an issue this season but if they choose to extend crowder then i think it could.  and the problem with keeping crowder beyond his current contract is that he's not going to play specials and he'd be at a pretty high salary level for what would be a role player.

I'm fairly confident than any extension would be more of an illusion than a guarantee that Crowder is a starter for the next 2 years. I am guessing the extension would be more of a cap manipulation where the Jets would have the flexibility to move on from Crowder after this year without it costing them much, if anything. 

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, rangerous said:

i said something similar about impeding the younger player progress.  i don't think it would be an issue this season but if they choose to extend crowder then i think it could.  and the problem with keeping crowder beyond his current contract is that he's not going to play specials and he'd be at a pretty high salary level for what would be a role player.

Crowder's not getting kept at his current salary, which is the whole reason he's not with the team yet. I don't think they're looking to extend him either; more likely it's just a pay cut. There are a lot more bodies here to be excited about than when he was signed, and while he was good it's not like he was putting up Victor Cruz slot numbers. 

Teams do pay players to be "just" slot receivers and not play on special teams. The Jets certainly have enough young WRs and RBs (and DBs) to return kicks & punts, and neither Crowder nor Cole are fast enough to be gunners in the first place. Honestly I wouldn't want a quasi-starting receiver to risk injury on special teams anyway, unless he was such an electric returner it's worth the risk.

Give the KOR job to a WR4-6 and the punt return job to the same, or to a dime back or RB3. I'm really not concerned with whether or not Crowder doubles up as a return man. 

My biggest concern with him has nothing to do with versatility on specials, nor his salary, nor the idea that decent-but-not-great veterans impede younger but more talented players. It's his injury history. I still think put him on the field if he's one of their top 3 receivers, and if/when he's injured then put the next-best one on the field. Particularly with a rookie QB and no shortage of cap space. 

I disagree with the idea that most of those summer passes wouldn't just otherwise go to camp fodder receivers who'll be at best a WR5-6 or even just hope to make the practice squad. Beating out such players isn't an accomplishment. Let the younger guys watch & learn from - and beat out - veterans that have shown they're worth a damn, not roster bubble nobodies. If the younger players all that, they should be able to do so. Their hard work and success this summer won't go unnoticed by the CS; I take for granted they'd favor younger/faster/cheap guys if it's even close and the team has plenty of depth. 

[kmnj]

On 6/6/2021 at 12:17 AM, Jetsfan80 said:

I get the feeling that people who keep throwing shade at Mims only looked at a stat sheet and didn’t actually pay attention to how he looked on the field. 

when he was on the field he was highly ineffective as shown  by his zero tds

folks want to give him a pass due to sam but crowder was WAY better than Mims and as of now is a  WAY better wr than Mims-folks will say how mims needs a big arm guy and crowder does not but the reality is crowder has been a very good wr in this league for a few years while mims has been outperformed by freaking berrios last year -

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Jets723 said:

Exactly.  Plus his stats were pretty good considering he missed a good amount of time with the injury 

And looked even better when Flacco was under center.  If you extrapolated his performance over those 2 games with Flacco to a full season (and account for small sample size/injury), he would have been one of the top 5 rookie WR's last season.

Darnold's inability to throw the deep ball and general suckage in all ways was Mims' biggest impediment towards putting up even stronger numbers.  

[Jetsfan80]

15 hours ago, kthisguy said:

I am not sure where the Cole is a better player. At this point, Crowder and Cole are the same age and Cole just had his best season and that was still close to being an average year for Crowder. Perhaps the mistake was signing Cole prior to the draft. He really should be fighting Moore for playing time.

So now we have TOO many WR's?  After last season's shortage, I'm fine with that.  Injuries happen.  And rookie WR's take time to develop. 

We should all want there to be an absolute battle for jobs in camp this summer.  I get that the way Cole's 1-year contract is set up makes it impossible to cut him, so his job his safe for 2021 (then Douglas will likely let him walk as a UFA after the season).  But there's still no reason to think he'll take significant playing time/practice snaps away from Moore.  Moore will get every opportunity to pass Cole on the depth chart, and perhaps others.

 

15 hours ago, kthisguy said:

Cutting him now, would also set a bad precedent for veteran free agents as the Jets could have cut him early in the cycle and allow him to hook on with another team. Agents and players see this and will take note. I like JD but this was poorly played.

Let's wait to see the process play out a bit before establishing this.  Crowder is not getting cut unless negotiations go very sour, very quickly.  In the end this will be a win-win for both the Jets and Crowder.  He'll remain a Jet at a stronger salary than he'd get on the open market.  

[kmnj]

On 6/6/2021 at 1:05 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

It was only a rare sight because of his QB.  When Flacco was under center, he looked like one of the top 6-7 or so WRs from his class.  

He has blazing speed for his size.  He needs someone who can throw the deep ball.  Darnold had no ability to do this, hence why Robby Anderson is going to be really sad next season.  Flacco, even at 35 and with one foot in retirement, did, and we saw the results:  2 very solid, impressive games out of Mims.

this is such  nonsense he never looked like a top 6-7 wr he didnt even look at good as a 4th round pick in gabriel davis....

when flacco was under center how many tds did he have ? none oh well then he must have had some hundred yard games then -no he did not do that either

berrios a total jag managed to find the endzone not once not twice but three times with the same qb and the same coach 

mims may turn out to be a good wr but so far he has produced NOTHING