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Do we give Christopher J a Mulligan on Gase and WTH was Peyton thinking?


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2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

My reasoning is simple. I don’t pretend that the world of billionaires with play things functions like the rest of the world. Also who would CJ have given power to? Neil Glatt? Mike Mccagnan? What if Woody then handed the reins over to some other ego soaked under qualified executive? It’s not like CJ came here and steered the ship from salvation to the grave. CJ came into a team in disarray with bad management and bad results for years before he took over. Should he have realized that the structure of the organization was bad immediately? Probably. Instead of making changes he did the tame patient thing and it failed. His next time up, he changed the approach and uprooted the old system. I’m okay with that for now. 

So I don't get any praise for him whatsoever, just because of a need to grade him on a curve.

That's like saying it's a good thing we drafted Sanchez and then Geno and then Petty and then Hackenberg and then Darnold, because it eventually led to drafting Wilson (assuming he's even all that).

Or "If I didn't get into a car accident, I wouldn't have gotten a new car. And I like my new car. Therefore it was a good thing I got into a car accident."

Except in this case it's 3 car accidents - one for each of the 3 prior CJ seasons - so that we could rejoice at the arrival of our new car in this 4th season.

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F' Payton Manning. That is all, and always WAS all IMO.

No, if he made a bad hire he may get a mulligan. But a hire 98% of the fan base knew was a f**king dumpster fire, absolutely not. 

The guy in his first managerial decision made a mistake. He pivoted and learned from that mistake. He then hired Douglas, and understood the importance of changing the reporting structure and the proc

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11 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

So I don't get any praise for him whatsoever, just because of a need to grade him on a curve.

That's like saying it's a good thing we drafted Sanchez and then Geno and then Petty and then Hackenberg and then Darnold, because it eventually led to drafting Wilson (assuming he's even all that).

Or "If I didn't get into a car accident, I wouldn't have gotten a new car. And I like my new car. Therefore it was a good thing I got into a car accident."

Except in this case it's 3 car accidents - one for each of the 3 prior seasons - so that we could rejoice at the arrival of our new car in this 4th season.

Yep. Plus it improperly assigns a value of zero to the opportunity cost along the way. If Macc were not a blundering incompetent, we'd have Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes, we would've had three more 2nd round picks over the last three years, and we would've avoided the entire Darnold era.

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32 minutes ago, jgb said:

Yep. Plus it improperly assigns a value of zero to the opportunity cost along the way. If Macc were not a blundering incompetent, we'd have Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes, we would've had three more 2nd round picks over the last three years, and we would've avoided the entire Darnold era.

Yeah but they wouldn't have been good QBs here & stuff

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10 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Yeah but they wouldn't have been good QBs here & stuff

Real Jets Fans™: "Darnold critics actually want him to fail and aren't real fans."

Also Real Jets Fans™: "It doesn't matter who we draft, no one can succeed here, it's all meaningless."

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11 minutes ago, jgb said:

Real Jets Fans™: "Darnold critics actually want him to fail and aren't real fans."

Also Real Jets Fans™: "It doesn't matter who we draft, no one can succeed here, it's all meaningless."

The forever circular logic that even good coaches couldn't succeed here because we didn't have good players, but even if we drafted good players we'd never know it because the coaches aren't good, but back to we have no way of properly judging the coaches as being truly not-good because the players aren't good enough.

Then move on to the same rationale of "can't judge without" among the QB, RB, WRs, TE, and OL.

And may as well throw in the defense can't be judged with a bad offense and vice versa, just for the sake of completeness. 

Also you can't complain about any of it, otherwise you're a bad/worse fan, which is thinly-veiled code for accusing someone of being a bad/worse person. 

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7 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The forever circular logic that even good coaches couldn't succeed here because we didn't have good players, but even if we drafted good players we'd never know it because the coaches aren't good, but back to we have no way of properly judging the coaches because the players aren't good enough.

Then move on to the same rationale of "can't judge without" among the QB, RB, WRs, TE, and OL.

And may as well throw in the defense can't be judged with a bad offense and vice versa, just for the sake of completeness. 

Also you can't complain about any of it, otherwise you're a bad/worse fan, which is thinly-veiled code for accusing someone of being a bad/worse person. 

I love the “can’t judge without” arguments. So GMs are expected to judge college kids and extrapolate that to expected pro outcomes but can’t judge an NFL player on his NFL performance “without?”

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2 minutes ago, jgb said:

I love the “can’t judge without” arguments. So GMs are expected to judge college kids and extrapolate that to expected pro outcomes but can’t judge an NFL player on his NFL performance “without?”

Now you've got it. 

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CJ did not come in with a plan for things to work out this way and did not steer the organization. He seemed to be more of a passenger than the driver for which the only credit he likely deserves for how things ended up is that he did not prevent it from happening--and you can only say that in hindsight knowing things maybe improved after several awful years. That's not saying much for a person running a billion dollar enterprise. 

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He badly bungled the post 2018 situation. I think we stumbled into a good situation in 2021 but the fact that we ended up with Douglas and Saleh almost feels like a miracle when you consider the decision making that was made around that time.

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Inexperienced owner who got overwhelmed when his phone rang and Peyton Manning was on he other line so he did what Peyton told him to do.

No free pass because not another person on the planet thought it was a good idea.  Gase had done nothing up to that point to inspire any confidence and he turned out to be even worse than any of us imagined.

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On 6/8/2021 at 6:34 PM, SouthernJet said:

Man, sorry Chris, but major messup but you put in bad situation so we 'maybe' you a mulligan on the hire. You got fan-boyed by Mannings call and that gave you instant reason to hire and built in excuse if he failed )Peyton said he was great)

What the hell did Manning see in this clown? It was 100% obvious he was out of his element. Did Manning just do this for a favor? If so, he screwed a fanbase over it. Anyone watching Manning knows he called all his plays and a Peyton Manning OC does nothing but generalized film scouting week pre-game and get Peytons Coffee and Breakfast burrito.

I cant fathom Manning that dumb as far as whether Gase was a XsOs stud. He did a friend a favor but set a franchise back 5 years.

 

He gets a mulligan if I get a refund for watching that crap!

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10 hours ago, HighPitch said:

I dont get the silly obsession with uni changes. 
 

That is all

When the team sucks people talk about their clothes.  It's indeed weird but not that surprising.   

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10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

When the team sucks people talk about their clothes.  It's indeed weird but not that surprising.   

Clothes and how much cap we are rolling over. 

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On 6/8/2021 at 8:56 PM, Joe W. Namath said:

Chris Johnson hired Joe Douglas who is the best up and coming GM in the league, who hired the best up and coming coach in the league, then drafted the best up and coming qb in the league.

We owe a big thanks to Chris Johnson!

Douglas is unproven….  Saleh needs to show us.  I’ve heard this before.  Win some games and then I’ll believe in Douglas.   right now we have proven nothing.  

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5 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Douglas is unproven….  Saleh needs to show us.  I’ve heard this before.  Win some games and then I’ll believe in Douglas.   right now we have proven nothing.  

He's all we've got man.  If Douglas fails then the Johnson's will be back to their old tricks and hiring another yes-man GM.  At which point the franchise will never succeed until the Johnson's die or sell the team.  We need Douglas to be "the guy", so I'll believe in him until he gives me strong reason not to.  

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Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

He's all we've got man.  If Douglas fails then the Johnson's will be back to their old tricks and hiring another yes-man GM.  We need Douglas to be "the guy", so I'll believe in him until he gives me strong reason not to.  

Absolutely.   BUT. We thought MAC was the man after year 1.   We thought REX and Tanny were the Man.   Success is measure with wins….. 

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Just now, southparkcpa said:

Absolutely.   BUT. We thought MAC was the man after year 1.   We thought REX and Tanny were the Man.   Success is measure with wins….. 

Those were all guys who answered to the Johnson's and were incompetent yes-men.  Yes, we were duped on all of them.  But at the very least, Douglas has boxed out the Johnson's in football decision-making processes, from the looks of things.  That alone is progress.

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On 6/9/2021 at 10:38 AM, k-met57 said:

i am sure the billionaire owner gives a sh*t what you think about a product that you will keep consuming no matter what he does with it or to it.

do you really think anyone here doesnt realize that Captain Obvious?

Its a Message Board to talk about anything under the sun. We know in end he goes skiing and doesnt lose sleep but we can discuss whether we think he learned any managerial lessons...geeeesh... we better not talk about players anymore cause newsflash,,they care WAY LESS than the fans do after a loss

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9 minutes ago, SouthernJet said:

do you really think anyone here doesnt realize that Captain Obvious?

Its a Message Board to talk about anything under the sun. We know in end he goes skiing and doesnt lose sleep but we can discuss whether we think he learned any managerial lessons...geeeesh... we better not talk about players anymore cause newsflash,,they care WAY LESS than the fans do after a loss

@k-met57 was promoted to major two years ago. Show respect.

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CJ seems like a good dude.  I think the players like him much more then Woody.  
 

But hiring Gase was an all time blunder.  Leaving Macc in place for the 2019 draft just as bad.   
 

The only silver lining is that those decisions were so bad it helped us fall into JD, Saleh and Wilson. (But the jury is obviously still out on those guys). 

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43 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

@k-met57 was promoted to major two years ago. Show respect.

congrats to him and thanks for service. But doesnt change my post,,that silly to even think so..

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No, if he made a bad hire he may get a mulligan. But a hire 98% of the fan base knew was a f**king dumpster fire, absolutely not. 
I see you weren't on the forum when we made the gase hire. Most of the forum loved the hire at the time. Some still love the hire because gase got rid of Mac.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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I recall the Board being basically "meh" on the Gase hiring.  A few of us knew it was a disaster, but for the most part we thought it was an ok hire-McCarthy seemed old and burned out, missing out on Rhule appeared to be a mistake, but the Jets were coming off of Bowles not hiring any real assistants.  Gase made the playoffs his first year and generally out-coached Bowles, so we thought he would be ok, and more importantly, we thought he could develop Darnold.

Obviously it was a giant mistake, but in large part because I think Gase realized that he was exposed and just gave up.  I am not sure that CJ and team was supporting Gase as well either (or Gase was not asking for support).  

The Jets appear to be in a better place now, but for all intents and purposes this is JD's first year.   2018 he came in late and 2019 was too influenced by Gase (and JD may have been practicing).  I think JD's 2019 Draft is going to go down as very mediocre. 

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6 hours ago, bealeb319 said:

I see you weren't on the forum when we made the gase hire. Most of the forum loved the hire at the time. Some still love the hire because gase got rid of Mac.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

Ha you are right I was not on the forum at the time I am basing this opinion on the sports radio 

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On 6/9/2021 at 1:48 PM, jgb said:

Yep. Plus it improperly assigns a value of zero to the opportunity cost along the way. If Macc were not a blundering incompetent, we'd have Deshaun Watson or Patrick Mahomes, we would've had three more 2nd round picks over the last three years, and we would've avoided the entire Darnold era.

“Blundering incompetent” love to learn a new insult when I can 

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On 6/9/2021 at 2:40 PM, Sperm Edwards said:

The forever circular logic that even good coaches couldn't succeed here because we didn't have good players, but even if we drafted good players we'd never know it because the coaches aren't good, but back to we have no way of properly judging the coaches as being truly not-good because the players aren't good enough.

Then move on to the same rationale of "can't judge without" among the QB, RB, WRs, TE, and OL.

And may as well throw in the defense can't be judged with a bad offense and vice versa, just for the sake of completeness. 

Also you can't complain about any of it, otherwise you're a bad/worse fan, which is thinly-veiled code for accusing someone of being a bad/worse person. 

100% agree how about a new way of thinking that if someone stinks they simply stink 

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First of all, this has nothing to do with Peyton Manning. He helped a friend out by giving him an excellent reference.

In regards to Woody or Chris... The stupidity and insults are just DUMB. It's been made plain so many times on this website. Woody or Chris just want to win. JUST LIKE YOU OR ME. The criticism of them should always fall on the hire a that they've made. They have made poor hiring choices just like Hess used to.

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