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Not sure I can agree with that.  Geddy Lee has technical chops that are almost impossible for mortals to replicate.  JPJ's playing is beautiful but approachable in a way that Lee is not.
My Mt. Rushmore on any given day could include around 6-7 bassists, but if you press me right now:
JPJ, Geddy Lee, Stanley Clarke, Jaco.
All bring something VERY different to the table, and I have a little bit of all of them in what I do.  Leaving off Jamerson is hard but if you limit me to four...what's a guy to do?
 
It's the same with Bonham and Peart ... Pearts lifelong quest was to retain his almost unmatched technical playing with the feel of the greatest jazz drummers. He never really got there.

Bonhams raw power and artistic chops for me edged Peart out .. but they are both at the highest level.

Whe I was playing.. I loved to incorporate both.

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HONORABLE MENTION:  BASS - PAUL MCCARTNEY 
HONORABLE MENTION: DRUMS - IAN PAICE /oh and BILLY COBHAM 
I'll back Cobham for sure ... and Dave Weckl ...

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6 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

HONORABLE MENTION:  BASS - PAUL MCCARTNEY 

HONORABLE MENTION: DRUMS - IAN PAICE /oh and BILLY COBHAM 

In terms of influence on everyone who came after.  Sure.

But I can do everything Paul ever did on tracks.  It's like what I said about JPJ but more so.  He created perfect moments, but it wasn't technically challenging.  Just brilliant.  But with guys like Lee and Jaco, it's taking things to a new level that you struggle to even attempt while still being brilliant.  In fact, it's relevant that Paul cites Jamerson as his biggest influence, hence why I think JJ is the next man up.

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8 hours ago, nycdan said:

Not sure I can agree with that.  Geddy Lee has technical chops that are almost impossible for mortals to replicate.  JPJ's playing is beautiful but approachable in a way that Lee is not.

My Mt. Rushmore on any given day could include around 6-7 bassists, but if you press me right now:

JPJ, Geddy Lee, Stanley Clarke, Jaco.

All bring something VERY different to the table, and I have a little bit of all of them in what I do.  Leaving off Jamerson is hard but if you limit me to four...what's a guy to do?

 

Ever listen to Vulfpeck? Joe Dart is absolutely amazing. 

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8 hours ago, nycdan said:

Not sure I can agree with that.  Geddy Lee has technical chops that are almost impossible for mortals to replicate.  JPJ's playing is beautiful but approachable in a way that Lee is not.

My Mt. Rushmore on any given day could include around 6-7 bassists, but if you press me right now:

JPJ, Geddy Lee, Stanley Clarke, Jaco.

All bring something VERY different to the table, and I have a little bit of all of them in what I do.  Leaving off Jamerson is hard but if you limit me to four...what's a guy to do?

 

Covering Geddy takes left hand and right hand technicality, and JPJ takes feel, touch.  Depends on what you are best at.  As odd as it seems, I find some off Geddy's stuff easier to get right than I do getting some of Roger Water's work on bass.  Getting such a slow groove right is a challenge if you grew up on reproducing all the electronic synth bass lines that dominated the 80's :) Go, go go !!! 

Here is another "self oddity".   I think the biggest POS of a bass is the Rickenbacker.  Tried one once and almost vomited.  BUT.  My absolute favorite rock/pop bass player, Chris Squire used a Rickenbacker for all of his work with Yes.  And two of my other favorites, McCartney and Geddy also used the Rickenbacker bass.   Odd indeed... 

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17 hours ago, Dunnie said:

It's the same with Bonham and Peart ... Pearts lifelong quest was to retain his almost unmatched technical playing with the feel of the greatest jazz drummers. He never really got there.

Bonhams raw power and artistic chops for me edged Peart out .. but they are both at the highest level.

Whe I was playing.. I loved to incorporate both.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

 

Don't kill me, but I always wondered why Bonham was/is so wildly loved.  I know he came up with a pile of slick grooves and he was somewhat of a proto-thrash guy with his patented triplets, but I think he was pretty much a caveman style drummer.  My favorite rock-pop players are Bill Bruford and Stuart Copeland. I would not put Bonham anywhere near those two.  I dig fully that he was the ideal drummer for LZ and it would not be the same without him, but no way do I laud JB as an elite talent.  He is a "great" drummer, but not a great player.   Like I said... Please stay calm and put down the bat :) 

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51 minutes ago, slats said:

Ever listen to Vulfpeck? Joe Dart is absolutely amazing. 

Yes!  He reminds me of Jeff Beck in so many ways.  

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33 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Covering Geddy takes left hand and right hand technicality, and JPJ takes feel, touch.  Depends on what you are best at.  As odd as it seems, I find some off Geddy's stuff easier to get right than I do getting some of Roger Water's work on bass.  Getting such a slow groove right is a challenge if you grew up on reproducing all the electronic synth bass lines that dominated the 80's :) Go, go go !!! 

Here is another "self oddity".   I think the biggest POS of a bass is the Rickenbacker.  Tried one once and almost vomited.  BUT.  My absolute favorite rock/pop bass player, Chris Squire used a Rickenbacker for all of his work with Yes.  And two of my other favorites, McCartney and Geddy also used the Rickenbacker bass.   Odd indeed... 

Ah...Chris Squire and the Rickenbacker.  

My first bass was a Rick 3001 because it was what I could afford when I really wanted the 4001 - because of Squire.  It's pretty worthless now but I still have it because does anyone ever really sell instruments? LOL  However...there is something about that trebley, twangy sound on Chris's work that grabs you.  I think it's something you can really only do with the 4001 and the dual outputs.  It's been a while since I was up on this stuff, but Roundabout does not sound right on almost any other bass.

BTW on this topic....one of my absolute favorite things to play is the bass walk from Yours is No Disgrace.  There's something about that I just love.

 

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11 hours ago, nycdan said:

Not sure I can agree with that.  Geddy Lee has technical chops that are almost impossible for mortals to replicate.  JPJ's playing is beautiful but approachable in a way that Lee is not.

My Mt. Rushmore on any given day could include around 6-7 bassists, but if you press me right now:

JPJ, Geddy Lee, Stanley Clarke, Jaco.

All bring something VERY different to the table, and I have a little bit of all of them in what I do.  Leaving off Jamerson is hard but if you limit me to four...what's a guy to do?

 

IMO, Clarke and Jaco are on another level compared to the other predominantly rock bass players.   In the rock idiom, to your list I'd add John Entwistle, Gary Thain and Chris Squire.   Squire's trebly Rik style always floored me and gave me the most trouble reproducing.

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10 hours ago, Dunnie said:

It's the same with Bonham and Peart ... Pearts lifelong quest was to retain his almost unmatched technical playing with the feel of the greatest jazz drummers. He never really got there.

Bonhams raw power and artistic chops for me edged Peart out .. but they are both at the highest level.

Whe I was playing.. I loved to incorporate both.

Sent from my SM-G950U1 using Tapatalk

 

What about Bill Bruford????

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6 hours ago, nycdan said:

In terms of influence on everyone who came after.  Sure.

But I can do everything Paul ever did on tracks.  It's like what I said about JPJ but more so.  He created perfect moments, but it wasn't technically challenging.  Just brilliant.  But with guys like Lee and Jaco, it's taking things to a new level that you struggle to even attempt while still being brilliant.  In fact, it's relevant that Paul cites Jamerson as his biggest influence, hence why I think JJ is the next man up.

I mention Paul because of his impact on bass in pop music. Before Paul, bassists were way more inclined to be less adventurous and not stray from the obvious root notes associated with the chord structures of the songs. Paul ventured beyond those restrictions and because he was so high-profile as a Beatle, he was very influential. It unlocked the door for bassists to expand their previous roles in pop songcraft. Throw in the fact that he was one of the 20th century’s best and most prolific pop composers and it makes him even more impressive. It’s often been said that if Paul wasn’t so famous for his songwriting, he would have been more widely acknowledged as a great bassist. You may be technically better than Paul, but could you have done it in 1965, and written dozens of incredible songs? Dudes like him will humble us all. Pretty decent human being, as well. Keep making music! The world needs it.

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6 hours ago, nycdan said:

In terms of influence on everyone who came after.  Sure.

But I can do everything Paul ever did on tracks.  It's like what I said about JPJ but more so.  He created perfect moments, but it wasn't technically challenging.  Just brilliant.  But with guys like Lee and Jaco, it's taking things to a new level that you struggle to even attempt while still being brilliant.  In fact, it's relevant that Paul cites Jamerson as his biggest influence, hence why I think JJ is the next man up.

Jaco, yes, beyond all. 

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2 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

I mention Paul because of his impact on bass in pop music. Before Paul, bassists were way more inclined to be less adventurous and not stray from the obvious root notes associated with the chord structures of the songs. Paul ventured beyond those restrictions and because he was so high-profile as a Beatle, he was very influential. It unlocked the door for bassists to expand their previous roles in pop songcraft. Throw in the fact that he was one of the 20th century’s best and most prolific pop composers and it makes him even more impressive. It’s often been said that if Paul wasn’t so famous for his songwriting, he would have been more widely acknowledged as a great bassist. You may be technically better than Paul, but could you have done it in 1965, and written dozens of incredible songs? Dudes like him will humble us all. Pretty decent human being, as well. Keep making music! The world needs it.

I guess the question is whether Paul was the trailblazer or was he following in Jamerson's footsteps.  JJ was the embodiment of the Motown groove and he was rewriting the bassists place in the song before even Paul.  Not to minimize Paul's legacy as a bassist in any way, but I think he partly stood upon Jamerson's shoulders.

 

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4 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

Jaco, yes, beyond all. 

Jaco technical, creative innovative.  BUT... i SOOO much prefer when he is supportive rather than explorational.  I also find the sound of a fretless J-Bass annoying at times.  The initial attack of a hammer stroke on a fretless electric bass has that pseudo string bass sound that I don't find too pleasing. Id rather listen to Cliff Williams with AC/DC over an hour long explorational jazz jam with Jaco.  Another guy that many players talk about a lot for technical ability is Less Claypool.  Most of Less Claypool's work sounds like a big diarrhea stew to me. 

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Don't kill me, but I always wondered why Bonham was/is so wildly loved.  I know he came up with a pile of slick grooves and he was somewhat of a proto-thrash guy with his patented triplets, but I think he was pretty much a caveman style drummer.  My favorite rock-pop players are Bill Bruford and Stuart Copeland. I would not put Bonham anywhere near those two.  I dig fully that he was the ideal drummer for LZ and it would not be the same without him, but no way do I laud JB as an elite talent.  He is a "great" drummer, but not a great player.   Like I said... Please stay calm and put down the bat  
Oh no ... for what it's worth I love both the guys you stated ... Copeland... growing up with him.i dod not realize how greatness till.o was 35 ... Bruford ... oh yeaaaah.

Bonham to me has an unbelievable combination of power and feel .. his bluesy stuff was on point ... and dont get me started with the patented grooves .. though a couple of them were direct rips.

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3 hours ago, Dunnie said:

Oh no ... for what it's worth I love both the guys you stated ... Copeland... growing up with him.i dod not realize how greatness till.o was 35 ... Bruford ... oh yeaaaah.

Bonham to me has an unbelievable combination of power and feel .. his bluesy stuff was on point ... and dont get me started with the patented grooves .. though a couple of them were direct rips.

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Speaking of rips (and I'm totally non-sequituring here)...

One of the most blatant rip-offs in rock and roll history was Chicago literally copying the line from Babe I'm Gonna Leave You into the intro to 25 or 6 to 4.  It's hard to believe nobody had a problem with it when it came out.

2:22 into the song:

 

 

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18 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Don't kill me, but I always wondered why Bonham was/is so wildly loved.  I know he came up with a pile of slick grooves and he was somewhat of a proto-thrash guy with his patented triplets, but I think he was pretty much a caveman style drummer.  My favorite rock-pop players are Bill Bruford and Stuart Copeland. I would not put Bonham anywhere near those two.  I dig fully that he was the ideal drummer for LZ and it would not be the same without him, but no way do I laud JB as an elite talent.  He is a "great" drummer, but not a great player.   Like I said... Please stay calm and put down the bat :) 

I kind of agree. Dont really see or hear the hype. Hes good in his own way but cmon no way he is on a peart/bruford level

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12 hours ago, Jetluv58 said:

I mention Paul because of his impact on bass in pop music. Before Paul, bassists were way more inclined to be less adventurous and not stray from the obvious root notes associated with the chord structures of the songs. Paul ventured beyond those restrictions and because he was so high-profile as a Beatle, he was very influential. It unlocked the door for bassists to expand their previous roles in pop songcraft. Throw in the fact that he was one of the 20th century’s best and most prolific pop composers and it makes him even more impressive. It’s often been said that if Paul wasn’t so famous for his songwriting, he would have been more widely acknowledged as a great bassist. You may be technically better than Paul, but could you have done it in 1965, and written dozens of incredible songs? Dudes like him will humble us all. Pretty decent human being, as well. Keep making music! The world needs it.

I know im gonna get trashed but what you said also fits early gene simmons and kiss. Hes a very tasty bassist at times

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On 6/11/2021 at 3:13 PM, Drums said:

Speaking of raw, guitarists not using their iconic typical guitars, and life changing drums, if you haven’t seen this watch it too. Noel shines. After seeing these two concerts I went out and got a 24x14 bass drum and never looked back (Bonham was 26x14, Mitch was 24x14). My two favorite drummers. 
 

 

Mitch was the best rock and roll drummer I ever saw live.  Bonham was great as was Palmer. Crimsons Bill Bruford was a close second to Mitch.  

For bass after hearing Jaco there’s no one else.  I remember Stanley Clark and others making us listen to bass but Jaco was Hendrix on bass, mind altering.  

 

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I kind of agree. Dont really see or hear the hype. Hes good in his own way but cmon no way he is on a peart/bruford level
Perhaps not technically .. though he had solid chops ... but stylistically and for raw power ... I think so ... for sure.

The guy I never saw the greatness in was Keith Moon ... I acknowledge the greatness ... but to me .. sounded sloppy as hell.

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On 6/11/2021 at 1:54 PM, munchmemory said:

OMG.  So many of those stories about the unknown nature of vintage instruments.  I have friends who were real musicians in the 60s-70s who bought Stratocasters and Fender Twin Reverbs from parents/grandparents for nearly nothing.  Their kids had moved and they just wanted the stuff out of the garage/attic.

This will take you back some: As a kid one Xmas, I got a Silvertone guitar (three pickups and a tremolo bar) and amp.  Had it for years sitting in my closet until my Mom pitched it when I was at college.  Not exactly sure why, but those Silvertone guitars and amps are worth a fortune.   I can't imagine what my pre-CBS Precision would be worth today.  Think I sold it in the late 70s for like $400.  

I came across a picture of David Lindley playing a Silvertone on wikipedia when I was reading about him cause I love his lap steel version of Mercury Blues.   The wiki is full of some weird language about him using Silvertones.  

David_lindley_31101981_01_300.jpg

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