Jets and Jameson Crowder agree to contract restructuring (merged)

[Warfish]

52 minutes ago, jgb said:

You can’t be best GM ever until you hit on a QB

Hopefully this years shows he has done just that.

[Dcat]

55 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Lifetime record:  9-23 over two seasons.

Maybe, and this is just a thought, we should wait till he has produced at least one winning season before we declare him the greatest Jets GM in Jets history?

He seems to be improving, we look to have a much better team now.  Lots of room for optimism.  But lets keep it real, eh?  Best ever?  Not yet.

What took you so long?

[nycdan]

7 minutes ago, Dcat said:

in addition, they failed to even notice the obvious increase in value on the field haaving Crowder available and the importance of depth, which we haven't had at the position in a very long time.

Whatever are you talking about?  Look at this depth from Week 3!  We had not 1, but 2 WRs making a catch.

 

[flgreen]

4 hours ago, kmnj said:

teams always want the player to be loyal but dont want to honor their own contracts

I am on team crowder who actually has been a good player for us

 

 

Crowder has been a good player for the Jets.  He was also paid for that production last season to the tune of $9,000,000. They have honered their contract. That $9M was considerably more then any other team was willing to pay him.

Due to additiions to  the Jets in the off season Crowder's production is more then likely going to go WAY down.  Jets are offering to pay him a fair amount in line with that coming production.  Has 0 to do with loyalty on either sides part.  Jets have honered, and fulfilled the finances of the contract. 

If he feels there are teams lining up to pay him that $11+M  he should refuse, and get cut.  If he decides to leave I strongly suspect he is going to be sadly mistaken.   

[jetstream23]

2 hours ago, Columbia Jet Fan said:

The potential hidden benefit of this is if Cole and Berrios and Moore ball out Crowder should actually have legit trade value at the deadline. If his new contract is ~$6mm than a contender could trade for him and only have to pay ~$3mm for him for the rest of the season. JD can probably get a mid rounder and half a season of production for a guy that may have been cut. Good move. 

Great take!

[choon328]

1 hour ago, Larz said:

You really just can’t admit that you forgot about the rookie pool?

 

guess what ?  It’s going to be even more next year considering the first 4 picks 

BTW   I provided specific numbers and a link to a relevant website. 
 

the only reason you are insisting on players names is so that YOU can change the subject to the player and not the cap. 
 

oh if you didn’t notice JD the cheap jerk just dunked on you

 

You are incorrect about the Rookie pool anyway. The Jets have $27 million in cap space with every pick signed and accounted for except the top 3. They account for just under $11 million in needed cap space remaining

In the off-season the Cap # is totaled by adding the top 53 salaries. 6 of the rookies that are signed along with 5 players (Mann, Ficken, Guidry, Huff and Ty Johnson) who should make the 53 are not included in the current cap number bc they're not in the top 53 highest players signed currently. If we assume they all make the final cut they would replace higher salaried players that are currently counting against the cap. On average they all are making about $175,000 LESS than the players they would replace and that would give the Jets another $2 million in cap room. So now they would have $29 million in cap space.

Lets be conservative and say Crowder only took a cut to $5.5 million.  That's another $5.7 million in cap space. That's $34.7 million in cap space with just under $11 million in Rookie cap space needed. Let's also not forget those 3 rookies will replace 3 players that are currently accounted for in the current cap number. At the very least those 3 contracts will add up to $2.5 million, but most likely much more.  $11 million for the 3 rookies minus $2.5 million for the players they replace is $8.5 million left in Rookie cap space needed.  After the 3 Rookies are signed the Jets would ultimately have $26.2 million in cap space remaining. 

Other potential cuts that I think will happen:

Herndon ($2,183,000) or Griffin ($1,848,438)

GVR ($3,383,353)

 

I really don't think you should be laughing at anybody since all of your "relevant" cap related information was incorrectly used by you. 

 

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Lifetime record:  9-23 over two seasons.

Maybe, and this is just a thought, we should wait till he has produced at least one winning season before we declare him the greatest Jets GM in Jets history?

He seems to be improving, we look to have a much better team now.  Lots of room for optimism.  But lets keep it real, eh?  Best ever?  Not yet.

His 1st season here was with Mac's Free Agents and Draftees where 3rd rounder Polite couldn't make it out of TC. This offseason is about purging Mac's stench on this team. His tenure should be judged by this year but mostly next season. Until then you really can't. 

 

[billo83]

1 minute ago, Claymation said:

His 1st season here was with Mac's Free Agents and Draftees where 3rd rounder Polite couldn't make it out of TC. This offseason is about purging Mac's stench on this team. His tenure should be judged by this year but mostly next season. Until then you really can't. 

 

IMO, JD should get a Mulligan for year 1. Not only was he saddled with Mac's stench, but it was his 1st year as a GM and you expect some growing pains. I thought he had a great offseason, and learned from prior mistakes for the most part. Still can't understand why he can't find a kicker, and he definitely needs to sign Moses, but otherwise very happy.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't think the best General Manager in Jets history was ever General Manager.  Ron Wolf. 

[choon328]

2 hours ago, Rhg1084 said:

It is crazy to think we got another 2 1sts and 2 2nd round picks next year plus all the cap space. Douglas really can do whatever the heck he wants 

They have to hit on Wilson otherwise the picks are pointless in my opinion. 

[Warfish]

13 minutes ago, Claymation said:

His tenure should be judged by this year but mostly next season. Until then you really can't. 

Ok, a bit friendly to him for 2020, but fair enough perhaps.

So not "Greatest Jets GM ever" but "Incomplete, pending the results of 2021" then.

I'm ok with that.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, JetsFanShawn said:

if jamerson crowder can be the jets number gye in the upcoming reglure season he will be alright next to Denzel mims 

are you having a stroke?  

Legit question Shawn.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

As predicted. Nice move JD.

 

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Good to see JD isn’t counting his chickens before they hatch with the new crew 

 

Wow.  No mentions of Woody's wallet in your first 2 posts of the thread.  Either tremendous restraint, or you're growing as a person.  Well done!

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

Lifetime record:  9-23 over two seasons.

Maybe, and this is just a thought, we should wait till he has produced at least one winning season before we declare him the greatest Jets GM in Jets history?

He seems to be improving, we look to have a much better team now.  Lots of room for optimism.  But lets keep it real, eh?  Best ever?  Not yet.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, slats said:

He owns the 2-14, but the previous one is on the previous GM. 

And I would argue the 2-14 mostly falls on the previous GM too.  The last 2 offseasons have been spent shedding the Jets from all of Maccagnan's bad contracts while stockpiling picks.

Now, if the 2020 draft class ends up being a bust, the signs of which we'll start to see early this season, that does absolutely fall on him.  Hoping to see huge strides out of that draft class in '21.

[Sperm Edwards]

On 6/14/2021 at 9:55 AM, Larz said:

I don’t need to name the players when my only point is that your math is way off. Do you follow the NFL ?  Teams need cap space for in season street free agents to back fill for injuries. That can be as much as 10 million. So  you need to acknowledge that. The jets rookie pool is 16 million (estimated).   That’s 26 million.  
you need to acknowledge your argument is based on a wrong assumption. 
 

The 1 million is wrong tho. AVT , carter, Moore  and others will take veterans jobs so depending on who is cut that number will go up. 
 

The jets are simply not swimming in an ocean of cap space.  They just aren’t 

This is inaccurate.

The net Jets' rookie pool cap hit is $9-10MM not $16MM. Even from the link you posted earlier yourself, because they don't just add all these rookies to the roster: 1 comes in, 1 goes out, and you need to remove the out-players from the cap. $6-7MM savings from the full figure.

Plus in signing Moses it's hardly commonplace to have the 1st year cap hit = the contract average if taken to its full end. It's common for year 1  to be 10-20% lower than that average (unless it's a 1 year contract). At least $1MM savings, but $2-3MM this year if they so desire = $8-10MM so far.

Further, the Jets are unlikely to sign Moore and keep 3 veteran guards at $3-4MM apiece. Feeney's guaranteed for the year so it's likely at least one of Lewis or GVR is going to get released as it is. If another tackle like Moses is signed, then maybe both of them. So that's $3-7MM savings = $11-17MM more space total cleared, not only $1MM left.

It's not all in-in-in where you keep adding but never subtract. That's even more of a wrong assumption, as though the Jets are permitted more roster spots than everyone else. 

The Jets have enough cap space to sign anyone they want even if they overpaid Crowder to the tune of $10MM -- it clearly isn't going to happen, but they could. They could afford Crowder and Moore and a corner and a veteran QB2 and all their rookies.

[thshadow]

I haven't felt this optimistic about a GM since they hired Mike Maccagnan.

 

[BROOKLYN JET]

JC, Moses & Elijah...

If JD is really any good he'll be able to get a guy named Enoch in here.

[Irish Jet]

Some of the best news all off-season. Legit group of weapons Zach has.

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

I'll start believing the "we will need that money in a year" argument when we actually spend that money the next year as opposed to just saving money for the Owner.

Just be aware, that "baptism by fire" could hurt Wilson.  He better be up to that challenge.

Fundamentally, I'm not against a youth movement, or starting the kids.  They just better be the right kids, and kids ready to play and produce and support our key asset, Wilson.  This entire WR group sans Crowder is a giant ? as of today.  Davis has never carried a team as a #1.  Mims is soft, or so it seems so far.  Cole is a #3.  Moore had a great minicamp but hasn't played a single NFL snap yet.    

Again, if it all works out, great.  If not, Wilson could be hurt by this, and that, for cap money we don't need to save, is IMO unacceptable penny pinching that only helps the Owners bottom line.

The Jets are in the top 5-10 teams in money spent on free agents from 2017-2021.  They spent over $100 million this offseason.  Spending up to the cap just to spend and make fans like you happy is bad business in the NFL. The main reason for this spending is that the Jets' drafts have been horrifically bad.  I would much rather "invest" in draft picks like Mims and Moore - and the OL - than to overspend on an average slot receiver for depth, especially when that receiver is not in the Jets long term plans.  Crowder is a  free agent next season.  He either plays for what a 4th or 5th WR is worth or he tries to get more money elsewhere.  You pay a player for future performance, not past performance, and Crowder is likely to be a low priority for targets this season.  You made a big deal about how Moore was a "bad pick" on draft day because of the redundancy with Crowder and  you continue to beat this drum now.  The Jets need to develop their own players and not invest in stop gaps like Crowder.  He either plays for pay that reflects his role or he refuses and he can try to get $5 million from another WR poor team.  NFL teams can't overpay for depth in the salary cap era for "just in case"scenarios."  

[Sperm Edwards]

28 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You are incorrect about the Rookie pool anyway. The Jets have $27 million in cap space with every pick signed and accounted for except the top 3. They account for just under $11 million in needed cap space remaining

In the off-season the Cap # is totaled by adding the top 53 salaries. 6 of the rookies that are signed along with 5 players (Mann, Ficken, Guidry, Huff and Ty Johnson) who should make the 53 are not included in the current cap number bc they're not in the top 53 highest players signed currently. If we assume they all make the final cut they would replace higher salaried players that are currently counting against the cap. On average they all are making about $175,000 LESS than the players they would replace and that would give the Jets another $2 million in cap room. So now they would have $29 million in cap space.

Lets be conservative and say Crowder only took a cut to $5.5 million.  That's another $5.7 million in cap space. That's $34.7 million in cap space with just under $11 million in Rookie cap space needed. Let's also not forget those 3 rookies will replace 3 players that are currently accounted for in the current cap number. At the very least those 3 contracts will add up to $2.5 million, but most likely much more.  $11 million for the 3 rookies minus $2.5 million for the players they replace is $8.5 million left in Rookie cap space needed.  After the 3 Rookies are signed the Jets would ultimately have $26.2 million in cap space remaining. 

Other potential cuts that I think will happen:

Herndon ($2,183,000) or Griffin ($1,848,438)

GVR ($3,383,353)

 

I really don't think you should be laughing at anybody since all of your "relevant" cap related information was incorrectly used by you. 

 

Didn't notice you posted this by the time I hit submit, and saw yours underneath. Oh well. 

But yes, all of this. 

Ridiculous to keep counting all the debits and none of the credits, as though the Jets get more roster spots than everyone else. 

No one seriously thinks the Jets would sign Moses and still keep, in addition to Becton & AVT starting, 2 veteran starter contracts apiece at each of the other 3 OL positions: GVR, Lewis, McGovern, Feeney, Fant, Moses. 

Absurd. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

in addition, they failed to even notice the obvious increase in value on the field haaving Crowder available and the importance of depth, which we haven't had at the position in a very long time.

In the old system, sure.  In a system that requires versatility at WR, its going to be difficult for Crowder to make a significant impact.  He's a pure slot receiver in a system that barely uses a slot receiver.

[undertow]

17 hours ago, Maynard13 said:

I think 6 months ago they didn’t have Davis, Cole or Moore.  Yea I’m pretty sure of that. 

Which makes wanting to get rid of Crowder then even dumber.

[Warfish]

41 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's amazing how often facts are read by Jets Fans as being a "downer", lol. ?

Don't kill the messenger.  If you want me say JD is a Golden God, the Holy Personification of Jesus Christ Himself, and the Greatest MInd that has ever worked in Football, I can do that too if you really have to hear it, lol.

Who knew God was really a Quadrality and not a Trinity, God the Father, Jesus the Son, the Holy Spirit, and J'mothing F'ing D!

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

It's amazing how often facts are read by Jets Fans as being a "downer", lol. ?

Don't kill the messenger.  If you want me say JD is a Golden God, the Holy Personification of Jesus Christ Himself, and the Greatest MInd that has ever worked in Football, I can do that too if you really have to hear it, lol.

Who knew God was really a Quadrality and not a Trinity, God the Father, Jesus the Son, the Holy Spirit, and J'mothing F'ing D!

 

[Joe W. Namath]

With Denzel Mims disappointing, I think you will see the stating outside receivers will be Davis and Moore and crowder starts in the slot.

Depth will be berrios, cole and mims.

[choon328]

15 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In the old system, sure.  In a system that requires versatility at WR, its going to be difficult for Crowder to make a significant impact.  He's a pure slot receiver in a system that barely uses a slot receiver.

LaFleur used a slot WR only 55% of the time while in SF. Way less than Gase.

[BettyBoop]

1 hour ago, Dcat said:

MY favorite law firm name: Moore, Payne and Hertz.

Mine is Dewey, Cheatem and Howe.

[choon328]

Just now, Joe W. Namath said:

With Denzel Mims disappointing, I think you will see the stating outside receivers will be Davis and Moore and crowder starts in the slot.

Depth will be berrios, cole and mims.

Cole and Moore both are versatile enough to play inside and outside and I think they will switch often. In a 3 WR set it'll be Davis, Cole and Moore. Cole is way more versatile than Crowder and this offensive staff values versatility. Crowder value to this offense is very limited, hence the paycut. 

[DetroitRed]

Going to miss the days of Hogan and Cager

[Joe Willie White Shoes]

He restructured.  Close the thread.  

[jeremy2020]

I'm super pleased they got Crowder to agree to get in here. 

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

Wow.  No mentions of Woody's wallet in your first 2 posts of the thread.  Either tremendous restraint, or you're growing as a person.  Well done!

Forgive me for weighing 30 years of woody’s ownership more than 2 Douglas off seasons when Woody was mostly out of the country. You know how much sample sizes mean to me.

[Claymation]

38 minutes ago, choon328 said:

LaFleur used a slot WR only 55% of the time while in SF. Way less than Gase.

They don't have a legitimate TE yet. Unless someone emerges in TC, but I wouldn't count on it.

[jetsons]