What is funnier in this Panthers 1st day of mini camp article?

[jgb]

7 minutes ago, genot said:

But you and JetsFan80, and others acknowledge that the last two years we're a disaster from the coaching down to the oline. It's reasonable to take a wait and see atitude. 

Disagree. What is reasonable to predict that Darnold is one of the 90% (or more) of QBs who sucked for 3 years and continued to suck for the rest of their careers rather than one of the outliers who experienced material turnarounds.

[slats]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I had Lamar as my # 3 prospect from the class, if I recall correctly.  I had Darnold # 1, Rosen # 2, Jackson # 3, Mayfield # 4 and Allen # 5.  

Lol, I’d love to see you bump a post with Jackson as your third fave that year. Thankfully for me, Rosen was always at the bottom of my list. I wanted and expected Mayfield. 

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I had Lamar as my # 3 prospect from the class, if I recall correctly.  I had Darnold # 1, Rosen # 2, Jackson # 3, Mayfield # 4 and Allen # 5.  

I had 1. Baker, 2. Darnold, 3. Allen, 4. Jackson, 5. Literally every other eligible QB, 6. Rosen (undraftable).

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, slats said:

Mark Sanchez was a lousy prospect who went to the AFCCG his first two years in the league but, yeah, good example. 

But I thought circumstances mattered more than the prospect himself?

And he was still sh*tty in those first 2 seasons  One of the worst QB's in the league, statistically, and easily the weakest link on the team.  So it was a great example, actually.

[Jetsfan80]

3 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, I’d love to see you bump a post with Jackson as your third fave that year. Thankfully for me, Rosen was always at the bottom of my list. I wanted and expected Mayfield. 

It doesn't exactly make me look good to have Darnold and Rosen 1-2 and Mayfield-Allen as 4-5.  Why would I lie about that given how stupid that made me look in hindsight?  I'll try to find the post if you'd like, however.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It doesn't exactly make me look good to have Darnold and Rosen 1-2 and Mayfield-Allen as 4-5.  Why would I lie about that?  I'll try to bump the post if you really want.  

If Giants drafted Darnold there is a 99.9% chance Rosen would've been a Jet. I would've been very disappointed but in the end it would've changed little. We'd be hearing all the same excuses for basically the same performance.

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

If Giants drafted Darnold there is a 99.9% chance Rosen would've been a Jet. I would've been very disappointed but in the end it would've changed little. We'd be hearing all the same excuses for basically the same performance.

It always boggles my mind that some people think of Darnold as somehow separate from the rest of Macc's draft history.  The same guy who drafted Hackenburg in rd 2 and had Josh Rosen as his # 2 QB in the '18 class somehow secretly got it right with Darnold?

Yeah, ok.  

[Jimmy 2 Times]

The majority of this board argued profusely that accuracy cannot be taught or improved.  

Allen = Hack Spiderman GIFS were littered all over the place.

 

Simple fact is no one knows who's going to work out.  Some may believe in a prospect, but there's no guarantee on anyone.  There isn't even a right or wrong way to bring rookies along.  Sit them, play them, support them, nothing is absolute.  

 

Sam was given a raw deal, but he probably wasn't ever going to be as good as we all hoped.  

 

It all comes down to three things:

-Processing information in 1-2 seconds

-Having the God given arm talent to do something with that information

-Big balls to stand in there and not flinch

 

All of the above average starters in the league have these qualities.  What makes the rare quarterback is having all three of those in spades PLUS:

-extreme work ethic on and off the field.  Film study, strength and conditioning, off season throwing programs, and self evaluation to learn your own weaknesses. 

-leadership and finding a way to gain the respect of your teammates while still holding them accountable for mistakes.

 

 

Zach appears to have most of these things, but we won't know until the reps are live.

 

At least he has some real talent around him so failure is on him and no one else.  

 

 

 

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It doesn't exactly make me look good to have Darnold and Rosen 1-2 and Mayfield-Allen as 4-5.  Why would I lie about that given how stupid that made me look in hindsight?  I'll try to find the post if you'd like, however.

Even the pros haven't cracked the "what makes a college QB a good pro" code. Why we bash each other over the heads with a higher standard than that is really an interesting quirk of semi-anonymous Internet discourse. At the NC Jets Fans club no one tells someone to shut up with their opinions because they "liked" Sanchez coming out, or whatever.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It always boggles my mind that some people think of Darnold as somehow separate from the rest of Macc's draft history.  The same guy who drafted Hackenburg in rd 2 and had Josh Rosen as his # 2 QB in the '18 class somehow secretly got it right with Darnold?

Yeah, ok.  

I did think Darnold was a blind squirrel finding a nut situation and the Giants basically did the work to put Macc in a "even he can't mess this pick up" situation. But then... evidence. So I changed my opinion. Or in Internet terms: YUGE HYPOCRITE!

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Thank you for sharing. It's a nice change to see a view that isn't a cut and paste of the standard defenses of nearly every highly-drafted QB bust "still so young," "bad situation," etc.

I will add and should have mentioned...

Last year he was as much of the reason as anyone else.  He clearly regressed.

 

 

[Jimmy 2 Times]

5 minutes ago, jgb said:

I did think Darnold was a blind squirrel finding a nut situation and the Giants basically did the work to put Macc in a "even he can't mess this pick up" situation. But then... evidence. So I changed my opinion. Or in Internet terms: YUGE HYPOCRITE!

You're not alone.

He was supposed to go 1 and then the Giants inexplicably took a running back. 

The great prospect finally fell to us!

[SOJ]

The guy is gone,,, can we move on please?  I

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, SOJ said:

The guy is gone,,, can we move on please?  I

Lol, right. Welcome to JN, rook.

[genot]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Disagree. What is reasonable to predict that Darnold is one of the 90% (or more) of QBs who sucked for 3 years and continued to suck for the rest of their careers rather than one of the outliers who experienced material turnarounds.

The amount of dysfunction, including getting the correct plays into the huddle,cannot be minimized. He'll never sniff another HC job. Maybe boo other coaching job

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, genot said:

The amount of dysfunction, including getting the correct plays into the huddle,cannot be minimized. He'll never sniff another HC job. Maybe boo other coaching job

Gase absolutely sucked.  But apparently USC's coaches sucked too, when Darnold led all of FBS in turnovers his final year in school.

It's always some kind of excuse when it comes to Darnold.  Always.  I wonder what those excuses will look like in Carolina.

[pointman]

Can you guys please keep this thread on topic. This is about how Sam looks terrible leading up to the season. Thank you.

[genot]

47 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Gase absolutely sucked.  But apparently USC's coaches sucked too, when Darnold led all of FBS in turnovers his final year in school.

It's always some kind of excuse when it comes to Darnold.  Always.  I wonder what those excuses will look like in Carolina.

He threw for 31tds to go along with 9 interceptions the year before. What happened

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, genot said:

He threw for 31tds to go along with 9 interceptions the year before. What happened

The USC coaches failed him, clearly.  

[genot]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The USC coaches failed him, clearly.  

That's not a legitimate answer. He showed the ability as a sophomore to put the ball in the end zone without throwing a lot of pics. At nineteen. What happened his last year. 

[Charlie Brown]

3 hours ago, SOJ said:

The guy is gone,,, can we move on please?  I

All I can say is we will see...  

[jgb]

On 6/23/2021 at 11:24 PM, genot said:

That's not a legitimate answer. He showed the ability as a sophomore to put the ball in the end zone without throwing a lot of pics. At nineteen. What happened his last year. 

Everyone drafted by an NFL team shows ability. In ideal circumstances (elite line, elite weaponz), there are plenty of guys that can resemble a competent NFL QB over short timeframes. The average QB2 makes several million dollars a year. They are (nearly) at the top of human skill in putting that weird, oblong ball where they want it to go while a horde of hyper athletic gladiators is doing all they can to stop them.

What separates them from an average starting QB? Consistency, mostly. This is why I never buy into the "flashes" argument. Flashes? He's paid millions of dollars a year to do what he does, being able to flash is the entry-level requirement for the job. Every QB2 can flash. Nearly every rostered NFL QB can, too (the Luke Falks aside). This is why they are on an NFL team and not selling insurance.

But if you want to be on the field and not holding a clipboard, your outlier moments need to be your bad plays, not your flashes.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

Everyone drafted by an NFL team shows ability. In ideal circumstances (elite line, elite weaponz), there are plenty of guys that can resemble a competent NFL QB over short timeframes. The average QB2 makes several million dollars of year. They are (nearly) at the top of human skill in putting that weird, oblong ball where they want it to go.

What separates them from an average starting QB? Consistency, mostly. This is why I never buy into the "flashes" argument. Flashes? He's paid millions of dollars a year to do what he does, being able to flash is the entry-level requirement for the job. Every QB2 can flash. Nearly every rostered NFL QB can, too (the Luke Falks aside). This is why they are on an NFL team and not selling insurance.

But if you want to be on the field and not holding a clipboard, your outlier moments need to be your bad plays, not your flashes.

He was consistently good his sophomore year. He was up and down as a junior. I think he needs to trust his line. If he doesn't, he forces things. Trying to hard to make a play when none is there. 

[jgb]

35 minutes ago, genot said:

He was consistently good his sophomore year. He was up and down as a junior. I think he needs to trust his line. If he doesn't, he forces things. Trying to hard to make a play when none is there. 

There is a large bias and with good reason against QBs who do not show improvement year-over-year at the college level. Especially a guy like Darnold who didn't start playing QB until soph or jr. year of high school. His learning curve should've still been extremely steep but he regressed. Whatever he learned his sophomore year, why could he not apply and expand it during his junior year? That's when the "fluke" discussions start happening.

Darnold was largely a product of that Rose Bowl game. He had his biggest game when the lights were brightest. While that is good and if you're going to flash that's the time to do it -- why was he not able to follow that up during the following regular season? I think Darnold is challenged not by pressure but by expectation. That soph year and Rose Bowl he played loose and never once had time to stop to wonder whether he belonged. After and on into the NFL he falls victim to brain freeze like he's forgotten how to play instinctually and is way overthinking it. Having to try to live up to the Rose Bowl Legend expectation turned him from Lenny Dykstra to Billy Beane overnight.

You can really see this on his deep ball. He is consistent there -- frequently overthrowing his man by a couple yards. That's a guy who lacks trust in himself and is trying to give too big a cushion to protect himself from the big mistake. "The NFL is a game of inches" applies not just to picking up the first down in a cloud of dust but to ball placement in the air, as well.

I think it's a disservice to him to hand him another starting QB role. He seems like a prime candidate to benefit from a "chill out reset" as a backup somewhere with much lower expectation. Will it be enough to rehabilitate him into a FQB? I doubt it. But I think he needs that to get to whatever his ceiling is. Right now I wouldn't trust him as a QB2 even. He takes gunslinger risks without ever delivering gunslinger rewards. He's like a mix of the worst halves of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Teddy Bridgewater.

Sometimes when you buy the hype you get Lebron and sometimes you get Kwame Brown.

[jgb]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Gase absolutely sucked.  But apparently USC's coaches sucked too, when Darnold led all of FBS in turnovers his final year in school.

It's always some kind of excuse when it comes to Darnold.  Always.  I wonder what those excuses will look like in Carolina.

Don't forget to save a clip for Bowles and all the Jets OCs over Darnold's tenure.

Lack of "a true #1 WR" is the favorite right now to be the first circle on Darnold Excuse Twister: The Carolina Years. Also the left side of Carolina's line was cobbled together this off season. Oh boy!

[genot]

23 minutes ago, jgb said:

There is a large bias and with good reason against QBs who do not show improvement year-over-year at the college level. Especially a guy like Darnold who didn't start playing QB until soph or jr. year of high school. His learning curve should've still been extremely steep but he regressed. Whatever he learned his sophomore year, why could he not apply and expand it during his junior year? That's when the "fluke" discussions start happening.

Darnold was largely a product of that Rose Bowl game. He had his biggest game when the lights were brightest. While that is good and if you're going to flash that's the time to do it -- why was he not able to follow that up under less pressure during the following regular season? I think Darnold is challenged not by pressure but by expectation. That soph year and Rose Bowl he played loose and never once had time to stop to wonder whether he belonged. After and on into the NFL he falls victim to brain freeze like he's forgotten how to play instinctually and is way overthinking it. 

You can really see this on his deep ball. He is consistent there -- frequently overthrowing his man by a couple yards. That's a guy who lacks trust in himself and is trying to give too big a cushion to protect himself from the big mistake. The NFL is a game of inches applies not just to picking up the first down but to ball placement in the air as well.

I think it's a disservice to him to hand him another starting QB role. He seems like a prime candidate to benefit from a "chill out reset" as a backup somewhere with much lower expectation. Will it be enough to rehabilitate him into a FQB? I doubt it. But I think he needs that to get to whatever his ceiling is. Right now I wouldn't trust him as a QB2 even. He takes gunslinger risks without ever delivering gunslinger rewards. He's like a mix of the worst halves of Ryan Fitzpatrick and Teddy Bridgewater.

Sometimes when you buy the hype you get Lebron and sometimes you get Kwame Brown.

Gunslinger rewards. Gunslingers need talent around them. Without it, they're gunslinger approach gets them in hot water. That's why Douglas revamped the WR unit. That's why he's solidifying the line. He doesn't want what happened to Darnold to happen to Wilson. Who also is bit of a gunslinger.

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

Gunslinger rewards. Gunslingers need talent around them. Without it, they're gunslinger approach gets them in hot water. That's why Douglas revamped the WR unit. That's why he's solidifying the line. He doesn't want what happened to Darnold to happen to Wilson. Who also is bit of a gunslinger.

If it was just about situation than JD is colossally stupid for trading Darnold and not just using the #2 on another weapon. You trust JD to build the right team around Wilson, you gotta trust him that Darnold was a large -- probably the biggest -- part of the problem.

[genot]

55 minutes ago, jgb said:

If it was just about situation than JD is colossally stupid for trading Darnold and not just using the #2 on another weapon. You trust JD to build the right team around Wilson, you gotta trust him that Darnold was a large -- probably the biggest -- part of the problem.

I believe what JD has said. It was about resetting the financial clock, and a slightly higher evaluation of Wilson coming out of BYU

[jgb]

11 minutes ago, genot said:

I believe what JD has said. It was about resetting the financial clock, and a slightly higher evaluation of Wilson coming out of BYU

Believe what you want but GMs don't trade away FQBs on their rookie contracts. Or they are terrible at their jobs. Can't have this one both ways, I'm afraid.

[genot]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Believe what you want but GMs don't trade away FQBs on their rookie contracts. Or they are terrible at their jobs. Can't have this one both ways, I'm afraid.

They had the 2nd pick and a QB that fit the scheme. In his eyes it made sense to start over,and give Sam a fresh start elsewhere. It was a difficult decision. If it wasn't he would have been traded sooner

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, genot said:

They had the 2nd pick and a QB that fit the scheme. In his eyes it made sense to start over,and give Sam a fresh start elsewhere. It was a difficult decision. If it wasn't he would have been traded sooner

okie dokie

[genot]

21 minutes ago, jgb said:

okie dokie

Lol. Your not buying it 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, genot said:

Lol. Your not buying it 

Not a bit, no lol

[genot]

6 minutes ago, jgb said:

Not a bit, no lol

[jgb]

52 minutes ago, genot said:

Man I hate these forced corporate memes