PFF: Jets Have Most Improved WR Corp in NFL

[jgb]

2 hours ago, slats said:

I liked Robby and wanted to keep him, but I don’t know if he has a role on this team. JD favors versatility, and Robby is strictly a Z. I think he’d be behind Mims and Moore in this offense at that position. Cole can line up at any WR spot, making him a valuable 4th WR. He had a couple good practices, which is better than bad ones, but I don’t see anyone anointing him. Just a solid depth piece on a unit that had none last year. 

4th WR seems about right 

[Larz]

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, jgb said:

4th WR seems about right 

Funny how no one seems to be bemoaning the loss of Robby Anderson anymore.  Almost as if those of us who expressed confidence that Douglas would end up "recruiting over" Anderson at WR were right all along....

I know.  I know.  Too early for a victory lap.  Let's see how the receivers do on the field.  Blah blah blah.  

Oh, and I bet Douglas wasn't actually remorseful at all about "failing" to bring Anderson back like he said he was.  He may have admitted a mistake publicly, but privately, he had upgrades in mind.

[Sperm Edwards]

9 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Funny how no one seems to be bemoaning the loss of Robby Anderson anymore.  Almost as if those of us who expressed confidence that Douglas would end up "recruiting over" Anderson at WR were right all along....

I know.  I know.  Too early for a victory lap.  Let's see how the receivers do on the field.  Blah blah blah.  

Oh, and I bet Douglas wasn't actually remorseful at all about "failing" to bring Anderson back like he said he was.  He may have admitted a mistake publicly, but privately, he had upgrades in mind.

My brother, you took your victory lap when Douglas signed Perriman in his place: a move you characterized as an unequivocal upgrade iirc . Fight me. 

IMO it was stupid and unnecessary, but not at all the kind of ill-conceived move from which the team couldn't recover. Hopefully they already have, and I'm optimistic about this group. 

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My brother, you took your victory lap when Douglas signed Perriman in his place: a move you characterized as an unequivocal upgrade iirc . Fight me. 

IMO it was stupid and unnecessary, but not at all the kind of ill-conceived move from which the team couldn't recover. Hopefully they already have, and I'm optimistic about this group. 

The Perriman Wars were fun. He was who we thought he was.

[jgb]

10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Funny how no one seems to be bemoaning the loss of Robby Anderson anymore.  Almost as if those of us who expressed confidence that Douglas would end up "recruiting over" Anderson at WR were right all along....

I know.  I know.  Too early for a victory lap.  Let's see how the receivers do on the field.  Blah blah blah.  

Oh, and I bet Douglas wasn't actually remorseful at all about "failing" to bring Anderson back like he said he was.  He may have admitted a mistake publicly, but privately, he had upgrades in mind.

The draft is over. Now is peak optimism time. Let's see if anyone still pines for Anderson if our new additions don't deliver.

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

The Perriman Wars were fun. He was who we thought he was.

Never mind the idea that Anderson was only capable of go routes, and at best a mid-50% catch rate.

It's not as though we failed to re-sign Megatron in his prime. Also like I said, the team can recover from that whiff, and I'm optimistic they already have. However that doesn't cease making it a whiff. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Never mind the idea that Anderson was only capable of go routes, and at best a mid-50% catch rate.

It's not as though we failed to re-sign Megatron in his prime. Also like I said, the team can recover from that whiff, and I'm optimistic they already have. However that doesn't cease making it a whiff. 

It's funny the Anderson detractors pushed the whole go-route thing but then also bashed him for his YPC declining last year lol.

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My brother, you took your victory lap when Douglas signed Perriman in his place: a move you characterized as an unequivocal upgrade iirc . Fight me. 

IMO it was stupid and unnecessary, but not at all the kind of ill-conceived move from which the team couldn't recover. Hopefully they already have, and I'm optimistic about this group. 

Signing Perriman was part of the plan to rid the team of Gase.  They hired Gase to get rid of Maccagnan and then used Perriman's injuries and incompetence to rid the team of Gase and Darnold.  Now we will surely prosper!

[Integrity28]

18 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Nope!  Matt Millen drafted Calvin Johnson, Shaun Rogers, Jeff Backus, Dominic Raiola, Cliff Avril, Cory Redding, and Andre' Goodman.  

Mike Maccagnan, meanwhile, drafted DT's and Box Safeties.  And as bad as he was at drafting, the FA's and contracts he handed out were even worse.

Mac has officially whiffed in every pick he made. There’s no comparison.

[Jetsfan80]

31 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Mac has officially whiffed in every pick he made. There’s no comparison.

Except Quinnen Williams and I guess Marcus Maye, yep.  And maybe Juston Burris (the current starting SS in Carolina).  And Leonard Williams will need to come close to duplicating his efforts last season to join the list.

No more than 4 useful players from 5 drafts, with 2 of them currently on other teams.  Horrific.

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

My brother, you took your victory lap when Douglas signed Perriman in his place: a move you characterized as an unequivocal upgrade iirc . Fight me. 

IMO it was stupid and unnecessary, but not at all the kind of ill-conceived move from which the team couldn't recover. Hopefully they already have, and I'm optimistic about this group. 

And yet, Perriman looked more than serviceable with Flacco under center.  As a 1-year rental, he was fine.  You do realize he had as many TD's as Robby Anderson finished with despite only playing in 4 fewer games than Anderson, in an Adam Gase offense, on the 2nd worst overall team in football, with Darnold as his primary QB.....don't you?

[jgb]

34 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Mac has officially whiffed in every pick he made. There’s no comparison.

Macc's best draft pick wasn't even a draft pick

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

The Perriman Wars were fun. He was who we thought he was.

So was Robby Anderson.  At least we're not the ones paying him $12M this season to be paired with Sam Darnold.  Anderson represents the 2nd biggest cap hit on the Panthers roster in 2021.  Ponder that one for a moment!

Perriman, meanwhile, is off the books and the WR room looks pretty stout after "recruiting over" both he and Anderson.

[jgb]

2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And yet, Perriman looked more than serviceable with Flacco under center.  As a 1-year rental, he was fine.  You do realize he had as many TD's as Robby Anderson finished with despite only playing in 12 games, in an Adam Gase offense, on the 2nd worst overall team in football, with Darnold as his primary QB.....don't you?

Perriman is a cautionary tale as to the limits of athleticism defining a player's career trajectory. The fear with Mims is that he will be another Breshad Perriman / waste of God-given talent.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So was Robby Anderson.  At least we're not the ones paying him $12M this season to be paired with Sam Darnold.  Anderson represents the 2nd biggest cap hit on the Panthers roster in 2021.  Ponder that one for a moment!

Perriman, meanwhile, is off the books and the WR room looks pretty stout after "recruiting over" both he and Anderson.

I wonder what Robby is really thinking on the inside. He bet on himself with a 2-year deal to get a shot at a big payday before hitting 30 and then Carolina trades for Darnold!

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, jgb said:

The draft is over. Now is peak optimism time. Let's see if anyone still pines for Anderson if our new additions don't deliver.

Not all of the new additions will deliver, or perhaps several won't do so right away.  But there's no way we end up pining for Robby Anderson.  Of that I am fully confident.  We have 2 guys with a decent floor (Crowder, Cole), 2 with pretty massive upside (Mims, Moore) and one with both a decent floor and decent upside (Davis).  That's the kind of WR group that ends up fun to watch as a unit, even if there isn't a true WR1.

But of course, we know much of that will depend on whether the QB is the right guy.  

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, jgb said:

Perriman is a cautionary tale as to the limits of athleticism defining a player's career trajectory. The fear with Mims is that he will be another Breshad Perriman / waste of God-given talent.

An absolutely legitimate fear, to be sure. Fortunately, Douglas wisely hedged his bets this offseason by adding Moore, Davis and Cole and keeping Crowder.   

But if Mims DOES meet his potential....watch out.

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Not all of the new additions will deliver, or perhaps several won't do so right away.  But there's no way we end up pining for Robby Anderson.  Of that I am fully confident.  We have 2 guys with a decent floor (Crowder, Cole), 2 with pretty massive upside (Mims, Moore) and one with both a decent floor and decent upside (Davis).  That's the kind of WR group that ends up fun to watch as a unit, even if there isn't a true WR1.

But of course, we know much of that will depend on whether the QB is the right guy.  

I think you underestimate how stubborn some of us can be!

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

An absolutely legitimate fear, to be sure. Fortunately, Douglas wisely hedged his bets this offseason by adding Moore, Davis and Cole and keeping Crowder.   

But if Mims DOES meet his potential....watch out.

Gotta take those swings for potential. JD was wise to also build depth.

[Sperm Edwards]

37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And yet, Perriman looked more than serviceable with Flacco under center.  As a 1-year rental, he was fine.  You do realize he had as many TD's as Robby Anderson finished with despite only playing in 4 fewer games than Anderson, in an Adam Gase offense, on the 2nd worst overall team in football, with Darnold as his primary QB.....don't you?

And an isolated 1-year TD total is the measure of how good a WR is? Don't tell Julio Jones his contributions are mediocre because he only averages 6 TDs a year. The 3 prior years Anderson also averaged 6 TDs/season. Therefore by your measurement, from 2017-2019 Robby Anderson was as valuable as Julio Jones.

Very convincing.  

[jetfan39]

On 6/22/2021 at 10:36 AM, BROOKLYN JET said:

Great!

Zach is a shoulder surgery away from throwing ducks though.

So is any quarterback

 

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

And an isolated 1-year TD total is the measure of how good a WR is? Don't tell Julio Jones his contributions are mediocre because he only averages 6 TDs a year. The 3 prior years Anderson also averaged 6 TDs/season. Therefore by your measurement, from 2017-2019 Robby Anderson was as valuable as Julio Jones.

Very convincing.  

It is funny to think Anderson isn't that good because of his TD total last year while also thinking that Lawson is going to be a stud pass rusher after averaging 5 sacks a year.

TDs and sacks are similar -- they can be a streaky stat, especially over small sample sizes.

[Sperm Edwards]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

It is funny to think Anderson isn't that good because of his TD total last year while also thinking that Lawson is going to be a stud pass rusher after averaging 5 sacks a year.

TDs and sacks are similar -- they can be a streaky stat, especially over small sample sizes.

In 2003 Curtis Martin had 2 TDs on 323 carries. LaMont Jordan had 4 TDs on 46 carries. Therefore Jordan was twice as valuable in the aggregate, and on a per-carry basis was some 14x more valuable. #statsdontlie

[jgb]

Just now, Sperm Edwards said:

In 2003 Curtis Martin had 2 TDs on 323 carries. LaMont Jordan had 4 TDs on 46 carries. Therefore Jordan was twice as valuable in the aggregate, and on a per-carry basis was some 14x more valuable. #statsdontlie

It's a 3-way tie for highest passer rating (158.3/perfect) in Jets history:

-Curtis Martin (2/2, 2 TDs)

-Blair Thomas (1/1, 1 TD)

and...

-Jamison Crowder (1/1, 1 TD)

Why the heck did we bother drafting a QB?!?

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

And an isolated 1-year TD total is the measure of how good a WR is? Don't tell Julio Jones his contributions are mediocre because he only averages 6 TDs a year. The 3 prior years Anderson also averaged 6 TDs/season. Therefore by your measurement, from 2017-2019 Robby Anderson was as valuable as Julio Jones.

Very convincing.  

I mean, scoring TD's is pretty important for deep threat receivers.  What's also important is factoring in the other items I mentioned.  Like, you know, Perriman playing in an Adam Gase offense, on the 2nd worst team in the NFL, with the 36th ranked QB in the NFL as his primary QB. 

Plus the financial aspect of the argument you're ALWAYS good at factoring in normally, but didn't in this post.  Weird!  

Perriman on a 1-year deal now off the books >>>>>> paying Anderson $12M against the cap in 2021.  And I say that while fully acknowledging Anderson is the better receiver.  The gap just isn't worth close to $12M.

But attempt to convince me otherwise and I'll listen!   

[jgb]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean, scoring TD's is pretty important for deep threat receivers.  What's also important is factoring in the other items I mentioned.  Like, you know, Perriman playing in an Adam Gase offense, on the 2nd worst team in the NFL, with the 36th ranked QB in the NFL as his primary QB.  

Perriman is a strange wagon to hitch to. He's a bum.

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, jgb said:

Perriman is a strange wagon to hitch to. He's a bum.

And Anderson is slightly better than a bum, and is getting paid $12M by the Panthers in 2021 while the Jets owe Perriman nothing.

Not to mention, Perriman did not look like a bum with Flacco under center.  He and Mims both have some very nice games.  Is he still a bum?  Sure.  A serviceable bum for 1 year, and a better option than paying Anderson $20M over 2 years?  Also true.  

That is the point I was making.  I'd rather have had Perriman, when factoring in ALL the info/circumstances involved, than Anderson.  Anderson's presence here would have likely cost us Corey Davis.  Davis >>>> Anderson.

[jgb]

37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

And Anderson is slightly better than a bum, and is getting paid $12M by the Panthers in 2021 while the Jets owe Perriman nothing.

Not to mention, Perriman did not look like a bum with Flacco under center.  He and Mims both have some very nice games.  Is he still a bum?  Sure.  A serviceable bum for 1 year, and a better option than paying Anderson $20M over 2 years?  Also true.  

That is the point I was making.  I'd rather have had Perriman, when factoring in ALL the info/circumstances involved, than Anderson.  Anderson's presence here would have likely cost us Corey Davis.  Davis >>>> Anderson.

Anderson is a lot better than Perriman IMHO. Perriman is a superior/elite raw athlete and sometimes that is enough for him to have a game. But as a football player? Not even close. Perriman is a story of wasted potential. Anderson is a story of maximizing his potential. I gotta respect a guy like that even if he is a dope.

Of course, all of this became moot when Rhule entered the league. Anderson wanted to play for him and wasn't going to stay here, anyway. The window had closed. Macc should've extended him earlier with some of that ridiculous Enunwa money, which was a total loss. Instead, he could've given Robby a raise to $5-6M or so for 4 years in 2018 and Robby would've snap-accepted (he made $650k in 2018). Then, if he really agitated to go play with Rhule while under contract through 2022, get a draft pick back. 

I do, however, agree that Anderson would not have changed the franchise's fortunes appreciably and he very well could be off the team anyway if we did extend him (see: trade to Panthers, above). I'm only referring to the flattering (for Perriman) comparison to Anderson, which I disagree with. You know I'm not sold on Davis but that's not relevant to the point I'm making here. No dispute that Macc blew it by extending Enunwa, I contend it was a double-bungle to the extent it prevented extending Robby.

PS: Maybe one big reason Robby wanted out is because the Jets -- by throwing $9M/year at Enunwa -- utterly disrespected him. If a worse-performing and unreliable co-worker got a huge raise over me, I'd be looking.

[Albaniajet]

On 6/21/2021 at 5:43 PM, Beerfish said:

Our #1 Wr for about 3 games last year is playing in a pro lacrosse league now.

Ask the Patriots how good hogan was.  Major contributor on multiple playoff teams for them.  His problem was Sam Darnold

[Albaniajet]

On 6/22/2021 at 9:57 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

Darnold was the biggest problem with the roster, yes.  But his rosters were not "good".  When the best player on your roster is an overrated Box Safety, and you have no LT, awful WR's, no pass rush and terrible Corners, you have the worst roster in the NFL.  Every other roster in the league at least contained 1-2 of those elements.  

Mike Maccagnan was the worst GM in NFL history, and its really not even close.

Completely disagree.  We had a good roster last year.  The problem is we had the worst qb in the nfl by far.  You will see this year 

[jgb]

 

2 hours ago, Albaniajet said:

Completely disagree.  We had a good roster last year.  The problem is we had the worst qb in the nfl by far.  You will see this year 

See what?

[Irish Jet]

On 6/23/2021 at 8:53 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

And Anderson is slightly better than a bum, and is getting paid $12M by the Panthers in 2021 while the Jets owe Perriman nothing.

Not to mention, Perriman did not look like a bum with Flacco under center.  He and Mims both have some very nice games.  Is he still a bum?  Sure.  A serviceable bum for 1 year, and a better option than paying Anderson $20M over 2 years?  Also true.  

That is the point I was making.  I'd rather have had Perriman, when factoring in ALL the info/circumstances involved, than Anderson.  Anderson's presence here would have likely cost us Corey Davis.  Davis >>>> Anderson

Stop.

[JohnnyLV]

On 6/23/2021 at 11:10 AM, jgb said:

It is funny to think Anderson isn't that good because of his TD total last year while also thinking that Lawson is going to be a stud pass rusher after averaging 5 sacks a year.

TDs and sacks are similar -- they can be a streaky stat, especially over small sample sizes.

I saw a good explanation on why Lawson's sack totals were so low but pressures were so high. The thought process was that their defensive line was so bad that the QB almost always had a lot of room to move up in the pocket and avoid the sack. That is not likely to be true with the Jets so his sack totals could really rise. We will just have to see.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

I saw a good explanation on why Lawson's sack totals were so low but pressures were so high. The thought process was that their defensive line was so bad that the QB almost always had a lot of room to move up in the pocket and avoid the sack. That is not likely to be true with the Jets so his sack totals could really rise. We will just have to see.

Lawson also benefitted for most of his career by having all-world Geno Atkins opposite him. So that argument cuts both ways IMHO.