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Mark Sanchez named New York Jets’ worst draft pick since 2006


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1 minute ago, Savage69 said:

Lot's a people played bad that day but we lost by more then 1 td.. Vinny had double Elway's passing yardage but in rushing it was a pathetic 178 to 14 yds..:eek:

Got it but that changed momentum for the rest of the game 

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I’m sorry, but Sanchez wasn’t as bad of a pick as guys like Dee Milliner, Calvin Pryor or Darron Lee. Hell, as much as I loved Darnold, he’s a worse pick than Sanchez in hindsight as well.

Gholston, Milliner, Quinton Coples. All these busts and they choose the guy who actually did his job ok from time to time? Ridiculous. Sanchez might not have been great, but he did enough to help his

Vernon Gholston was so bad that they forgot about him actually being the worst Jet ever. 

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26 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

In the Denver AFCCG game we were up by 10 points but then the BB and Tuna's defense couldn't stop Elway's offense correct?? The deference in the Pitt game was the free td the offence gave Pitt without that the Jets win. I get many hate Rex but try to be fair just a tad..:rolleyes:

We arent talking about Tuna and BB

Talking about Rex Ryan and 2009 game    They were winning at the half but couldnt stop the Colts in the second half

 

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23 minutes ago, Bowles Movement said:

We arent talking about Tuna and BB

Talking about Rex Ryan and 2009 game    They were winning at the half but couldnt stop the Colts in the second half

 

 

 

Got it you hated Rex but not Parcells..B)

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Mahomes would have absolutely succeeded here.  Not like he is in KC, but he'd be a top 5 QB.  He checks every single box you could ask for. 

Watson would have been a top 12 or so QB here, as well.  And have you seen what is going on in Houston?  How are they competent, exactly?  Watson had a tremendous year AFTER they traded away Hopkins.  

Those kinds of QB's can't be denied a successful career (except with off the field stuff like in Watson's case).  You're the madman on this one, not me.  

Okay so you argue Mahomes would have succeeded here and you may very well be correct but you don't know that for sure without the benefit of Hindsight like in the other argument. This was a terribly run and terribly coached football team for years and it would have been very difficult for any rookie to succeed. Also your other point below is valid as well but its easy to make arguments with the benefit of Hindsight

 

3 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Why not?  We directly passed on 2 elite QB's in Mahomes/Watson to take a Box Safety.  If you want to bring up what we got back in a trade for Adams, then I get to consider who we passed on when taking Adams.

Hackenberg and Adams:  The 2 worst draft picks in franchise history.  

Obviously Idiot Macc knew Hackenberg was going to be there in round 2 so he weighed the 6th overall vs the second and felt more comfortable with that pick. In reality Macc was a big pussy which led him to that logic and every time he had an early pick he almost exclusively went with what all the analysts were spewing.... Like OMFG I can't believe Jamal has fallen to number 6 OMFG I can't believe Leo fell to 6 he picked who he felt he was expected to pick . You may even be able to make the case he did the same crap with Darnold a QB I said at the time looked like he had major mechanical flaws and that we should probably take Mayfield unfortunately Mayfield was picked first by a GM with a pair of balls.

Bottom line I did not like any of those draft picks but Adams has played well and I think the context of this argument is based on how well the player played rather than who you should have picked. I mean like I said earlier we could probably go through every draft pick ever made by any team and find well you should have done this or that. Just like Mr 199

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10 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Okay so you argue Mahomes would have succeeded here and you may very well be correct but you don't know that for sure without the benefit of Hindsight like in the other argument. This was a terribly run and terribly coached football team for years and it would have been very difficult for any rookie to succeed. Also your other point below is valid as well but its easy to make arguments with the benefit of Hindsight

lol, and yet you're calling me "nuts" for saying he'd have success, even though you "don't know for sure" that he wouldn't succeed, either.  We're both operating in hindsight, but only my side of the argument has clear evidence suggesting Mahomes is objectively great.  Just look at how much better he is than Alex Smith under a similar set of circumstances that Mahomes had for evidence of that.  Did you see Alex Smith putting up a 50+ TD season, an MVP, back to back Super Bowl appearances, or a Super Bowl MVP? 

Good/great QB's do well in all situations, even if they'd do BETTER in some situations versus others.  Justin Herbert just threw for 31 TD's and 10 INT's behind the game's # 32-ranked Offensive Line.  Arguably the best rookie season by a QB in NFL history. 

I'll stick by Mahomes being an elite QB for any of the 32 teams, even if the MOST success he'll have is with Andy Reid and that loaded Chiefs offense.  You can't watch Mahomes and think he's only/mostly special based on his circumstances rather than internal characteristics. 

Meanwhile, you can't watch QB's like Sanchez or Sam Darnold and assume all of their struggles were based on their poor circumstances.

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9 hours ago, mfmartin said:

 


Two things:

1. If Sanchez isn’t the starter, who is?
2. He was far from the reason they lost those championship games.


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1. The best player Tannenbaum could have acquired. Pretty much any mediocre journeyman would have been considerably better than Sanchez for that team who had an elite defense and running game and needed a game manager, not the guy who set an NFL record for turnovers over a three year period during his tenure here.

2. First of all, he was a huge part of why we couldn't win those games -- as soon as Shonn Greene went down in the Colts game the offense became completely ineffective and the offense scoring -7 points in the first half against the Steelers was a huge factor in us losing that game.

But more importantly -- with better QB play we win more games and may not have been a wild card at all. Especially in 2009, even with "below average" QB play we easily win the AFC East with a 12-4 type record. Changes the complexion of the playoffs entirely.

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4 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

blah blah blah.  Mahomes would be #1?  Yeah, maybe all-time.  Mahomes went 10th, not 150th.  Besides, if he was worried about Mahomes coming out of Texas Tech, why not Watson?  That is the real question.  Was Maccagnan that worried about the ourlads radar gun?  

Macc was probably terrified of taking one of those QB's with the 6th pick because neither guy was to consensus pick to go there. A lot of analysts were spilt on both those guys so in essence Macc was split and not willing to take the chance and come out looking like a fool. I guarantee you if everyone was outraged those 2 guys were slipping in the draft Macc would have pulled the trigger on one of them but like I said in my other post he was to big a pussy to do so on his own. He pulled the same sh*t in FA offering way to much money to players because he was probably too afraid to lose out to another team. That much should be evident to Jets fans with the contracts Joe Douglas is now handing out that always seem to come in much lower and favor the Jets. Care to take a guess what Macc would have offered Morgan Moses LOL

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1 hour ago, Savage69 said:

In the Denver AFCCG game we were up by 10 points but then the BB and Tuna's defense couldn't stop Elway's offense correct?? The deference in the Pitt game was the free td the offence gave Pitt without that the Jets win. I get many hate Rex but try to be fair just a tad..:rolleyes:

Different games.  The Denver game was going to be tough to win without a big lead in the first half.  We were dominating the game early, missed a FG and the Curtis fumble was a disaster.  I would argue the Keith Byars fumble was even worse.  Once Denver started running down hill in the thin air we were done.   We simply botched a chance to put a very good team at home away when we had the chance.   It was a good game plan.  Curtis and Byars, two vets Parcell's counted on fumbled.  

Rex built the team on  running the ball and D.  Pittsburgh ran the ball down the throat of our D on the first drive.  They made a statement.   They could run the ball and we couldn't.   We came out flat and unprepared.  They were the tougher team.   They pushed us around.

Tuna's game plan was to outscore Denver with our O and they turned the ball over.

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4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

lol, and yet you're calling me "nuts" for saying he'd have success, even though you "don't know for sure" that he wouldn't succeed, either.  

Good/great QB's do well in all situations, even if they'd do BETTER in some situations versus others.  Justin Herbert just threw for 31 TD's and 10 INT's behind the game's # 32-ranked Offensive Line.  Arguably the best rookie season by a QB in NFL history. 

I'll stick by Mahomes being an elite QB for any of the 32 teams, even if the MOST success he'll have is with Andy Reid and that loaded Chiefs offense.  You can't watch Mahomes and think he's only/mostly special based on his circumstances rather than internal characteristics.  Just look at how much better he is than Alex Smith under the same circumstances for evidence of that.  Just like you can't watch Sam Darnold and assume all of his struggles were based on his poor circumstances.

Honestly 80 great QB's do not do good in all situations because its very rare they get traded so that's not even an argument to make. Even some of the great QB's have lulls in their careers because teams usually have a 2-4 year window once that window closes its back to rebuilding the roster . The Steelers are a prime example of this and they do it like clock work. Brady is the exception because he's actually proven it for the NFL and to your point the only other great QB to come close to that feat was Joe Montana who took the Chiefs to the AFCCG and lost and they just so happen to be the 2 greatest QB's of all time.

BTW I didn't call you nuts but ......

:)

 

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11 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Honestly 80 great QB's do not do good in all situations because its very rare they get traded so that's not even an argument to make. Even some of the great QB's have lulls in their careers because teams usually have a 2-4 year window once that window closes its back to rebuilding the roster . The Steelers are a prime example of this and they do it like clock work. Brady is the exception because he's actually proven it for the NFL and to your point the only other great QB to come close to that feat was Joe Montana who took the Chiefs to the AFCCG and lost and they just so happen to be the 2 greatest QB's of all time.

BTW I didn't call you nuts but ......

:)

 

"Lulls" are relative.  A "lull" for the Steelers is failing to the make the playoffs with their future HOF QB from time to time, or not winning a Super Bowl for a little while.  We haven't been to the playoffs in over a decade.

Jets fans are constantly trying to perform mental gymnastics on why good QB's are good, and why bad QB's are bad.  It's really not that hard.  Especially in today's game, QB's will show early on whether they can be a franchise guy or not.  No one would ever argue that a QB like Big Ben, Russell Wilson, etc aren't good/great QB's just because they have "lulls" without winning much.  There are QB's you build around and QB's you don't, and most of the time you know whether you have it or you don't.  

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On 7/7/2021 at 7:38 AM, LIJetsFan said:

A pair of AFC title game appearances couldn’t save former New York Jets QB Mark Sanchez from a dubious distinction bestowed by PFF.

Pro Football Focus couldn’t wait until.........

 

On 7/7/2021 at 7:38 AM, LIJetsFan said:

FYI Jets Fans, I strongly disagree but posted this article as food for thought during these doldrums.  

It's really not food for thought and certainly not news.

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23 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Different games.  The Denver game was going to be tough to win without a big lead in the first half.  We were dominating the game early, missed a FG and the Curtis fumble was a disaster.  I would argue the Keith Byars fumble was even worse.  Once Denver started running down hill in the thin air we were done.   We simply botched a chance to put a very good team at home away when we had the chance.   It was a good game plan.  Curtis and Byars, two vets Parcell's counted on fumbled.  

Rex built the team on  running the ball and D.  Pittsburgh ran the ball down the throat of our D on the first drive.  They made a statement.   They could run the ball and we couldn't.   We came out flat and unprepared.  They were the tougher team.   They pushed us around.

Tuna's game plan was to outscore Denver with our O and they turned the ball over.

Don't disagree however there is a negative bias when it comes to Rex that other HC's don't get. In 08 Brady is done game one with a future HOF QB Mangini goes 9-7 while the QB he dumped takes a 1-15 team and wins the east.. And I don't want to hear Farve got hurt because Clemens was in his 3rd year was that because Mangini never developed him?? The Pats went 11-5 with a QB that never started a game before..There is no equal justice in many things which includes football..

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3 minutes ago, Savage69 said:

Don't disagree however there is a negative bias when it comes to Rex that other HC's don't get. In 08 Brady is done game one with a future HOF QB Mangini goes 9-7 while the QB he dumped takes a 1-15 team and wins the east.. And I don't want to hear Farve got hurt because Clemens was in his 3rd year was that because Mangini never developed him?? The Pats went 11-5 with a QB that never started a game before..There is no equal justice in many things which includes football..

Rex coached great in 2009, 2010, and even early on in 2011.  I don't think anyone objects to this.  The problem was that great HC's need to be adaptable, and Rex Ryan was anything but.  The league figured him out and exploited his weaknesses when they did.  It happens.  If you want to say he was a great coach in 2009-2011 you have to take the good with the bad and acknowledge how awful he became from 2012-2016 with 2 different franchises. 

His overall record is 61-66, with 6 straight years without a postseason appearance to finish his career.  There are good reasons why he can't get a HC job anymore and didn't even get an interview for the U of Miami HC job.  It is what it is.  He shouldn't be viewed as some hero in Jets lore because of 2 nice postseason runs.  

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11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Rex coached great in 2009, 2010, and even early on in 2011.  I don't think anyone objects to this.  The problem was that great HC's need to be adaptable, and Rex Ryan was anything but.  The league figured him out and exploited his weaknesses when they did.  It happens.  If you want to say he was a great coach in 2009-2011 you have to take the good with the bad and acknowledge how awful he became from 2012-2016 with 2 different franchises. 

His overall record is 61-66, with 6 straight years without a postseason appearance to finish his career.  There are good reasons why he can't get a HC job anymore and didn't even get an interview for the U of Miami HC job.  It is what it is.  He shouldn't be viewed as some hero in Jets lore because of 2 nice postseason runs.  

Don't disagree with most of that but he gets no credit even for 09-10 with most here where Mangini gets praised and he never won a playoff game and had a 33-47 record.. 

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On 7/7/2021 at 10:44 AM, Savage69 said:

But his fumble that resulted in a Pitt td was the difference in that AFCCG 24-19 loss. The D gave up no points in the 2nd half of that game.

They did score 2 though. 

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On 7/7/2021 at 10:15 AM, Beerfish said:

Rex and Tanny did that by not getting a medium vet who could play instead of a raw rookie.

but there really wasnt anybody to get.

1. Kurt Warner resigned with Arizona for 3 years. at 38 tr old i dont think he was an option. even so i doubt Arizona would let him go.

2. Fitz?... finally started in 2008 in his 4th year with 8 TDs and 9 INTs. no way would we go with him over a rookie. he wasnt Fritzmagic yet

3. Matt Cassell... traded by NE

who else?

A.J Feeney, Kerry Collins, Byron Leftwich, David Carr....

did i miss a good FA we could have got?

and the Draft had no one after Stafford. 

Sanchez was the only option.

 

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It’s so funny that people look back on Pennington with reverence and Sanchez with such disdain. Pennington was not a good QB at all. He was about the equivalent of Jeff Garcia at best. Any time Pennington faced a tough D he got his ass whooped. Pennington played football like an absolute pussy, never ever bending a D to his will. He was praised “for taking what the D gave him” which worked against mediocre D’s but never against an aggressive D that also took away the underneath routes. People point to his injuries but nothing changed, he had a popgun arm before he hurt his shoulder. Healthy and at their best Sanchez was a much better QB.


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1 minute ago, Snell41 said:

It’s so funny that people look back on Pennington with reverence and Sanchez with such disdain. Pennington was not a good QB at all. He was about the equivalent of Jeff Garcia at best. Any time Pennington faced a tough D he got his ass whooped. Pennington played football like an absolute pussy, never ever bending a D to his will. He was praised “for taking what the D gave him” which worked against mediocre D’s but never against an aggressive D that also took away the underneath routes. People point to his injuries but nothing changed, he had a popgun arm before he hurt his shoulder. Healthy and at their best Sanchez was a much better QB.


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Most of this may be true, but Pennington was still considerably better than Sanchez.  I don't know where you see people treating Pennington with reverence.  Probably 75% of the board would call him noodle arm to his face if they met him.  Garcia was arguably better than both of them, but certainly better than Sanchez.  When the **** did Mark Sanchez "bend a D to his will?"  Especially a tough D.  Maybe you should watch him against the Ravens and refresh your recollection.

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25 minutes ago, doitny said:

but there really wasnt anybody to get.

1. Kurt Warner resigned with Arizona for 3 years. at 38 tr old i dont think he was an option. even so i doubt Arizona would let him go.

2. Fitz?... finally started in 2008 in his 4th year with 8 TDs and 9 INTs. no way would we go with him over a rookie. he wasnt Fritzmagic yet

3. Matt Cassell... traded by NE

who else?

A.J Feeney, Kerry Collins, Byron Leftwich, David Carr....

did i miss a good FA we could have got?

and the Draft had no one after Stafford. 

Sanchez was the only option.

 

There are ALWAYS options.  No way Sanchez was the only option.  Could have used some of the resources we used to draft sanchez to trade.

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14 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

It’s so funny that people look back on Pennington with reverence and Sanchez with such disdain. Pennington was not a good QB at all. He was about the equivalent of Jeff Garcia at best. Any time Pennington faced a tough D he got his ass whooped. Pennington played football like an absolute pussy, never ever bending a D to his will. He was praised “for taking what the D gave him” which worked against mediocre D’s but never against an aggressive D that also took away the underneath routes. People point to his injuries but nothing changed, he had a popgun arm before he hurt his shoulder. Healthy and at their best Sanchez was a much better QB.


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If Chad had Vinny's arm he would have been a franchise QB.. Or Vinny Chad's brain.LOL

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Most of this may be true, but Pennington was still considerably better than Sanchez.  I don't know where you see people treating Pennington with reverence.  Probably 75% of the board would call him noodle arm to his face if they met him.  Garcia was arguably better than both of them, but certainly better than Sanchez.  When the **** did Mark Sanchez "bend a D to his will?"  Especially a tough D.  Maybe you should watch him against the Ravens and refresh your recollection.


Against the Ravens when he had a 270lb undrafted rookie starting at Center? Yeah, that game ended his career if you want to talk about career altering injuries, Sanchez was never the same after that. Sanchez had a much better arm, much better mechanics, and much better mid-deep field vision. Pennington was better at taking the 5 yard dump off. You gotta remember Pennington played in the era of the Cover 2, when D’s were predicated on the end don’t break philosophy. Pennington was just racking up stats taking what was given. Sanchez on the other hand made plenty of downright amazing throws to Holmes and Edwards regularly that Chad could only dream of. If I had the chance right now to choose only one of them in their prime in a one game playoff I’d take Sanchez every single time.


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21 minutes ago, Snell41 said:

 


Against the Ravens when he had a 270lb undrafted rookie starting at Center? Yeah, that game ended his career if you want to talk about career altering injuries, Sanchez was never the same after that. Sanchez had a much better arm, much better mechanics, and much better mid-deep field vision. Pennington was better at taking the 5 yard dump off. You gotta remember Pennington played in the era of the Cover 2, when D’s were predicated on the end don’t break philosophy. Pennington was just racking up stats taking what was given. Sanchez on the other hand made plenty of downright amazing throws to Holmes and Edwards regularly that Chad could only dream of. If I had the chance right now to choose only one of them in their prime in a one game playoff I’d take Sanchez every single time.


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And you'd be wrong, but you really aren't winning sh*t with either of them.  Which Ravens game was that?  Cause he never played well against them.  If his career was ended on the opener of his sophomore season, **** him.  Far as I know, Mangold played that whole game Sanchez threw for less than 75.  The idea that Pennington faced more bend but don't break than Sanchez is laughable.  

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53 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Rex coached great in 2009, 2010, and even early on in 2011.  I don't think anyone objects to this.  The problem was that great HC's need to be adaptable, and Rex Ryan was anything but.  The league figured him out and exploited his weaknesses when they did.  It happens.  If you want to say he was a great coach in 2009-2011 you have to take the good with the bad and acknowledge how awful he became from 2012-2016 with 2 different franchises. 

His overall record is 61-66, with 6 straight years without a postseason appearance to finish his career.  There are good reasons why he can't get a HC job anymore and didn't even get an interview for the U of Miami HC job.  It is what it is.  He shouldn't be viewed as some hero in Jets lore because of 2 nice postseason runs.  

but alot of the awfulness was the roster went bad. Idzik didnt help either

Rex went 8-8 with Geno in 2013

and in Buffalo he went 8-8 and 7-9. thats not awful. add in the fact he did it with Tyrod Taylor is pretty good. and McDermott only went 9-7 then 6-10. it wasnt until he got Josh Allen that McDermott is being called a good coach. 

if Rex could have a good QB just once he would have been a great coach.

and Rex hasnt got another HC job because guys dont get a 3rd shot, especially when their below 500. 

and i think its his attitude. how do you get fired with one game to go when your 7-8 in your 2nd year.

you dont have to have a long career to be a hero. 2009-10 were the 2 best years in Jets history. so yeah he deserves some herodom in "Jets Lore". maybe when we win a couple of SBs and win the AFC East a few times in a row it might seem different. but for now hes a hero.

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25 minutes ago, doitny said:

but alot of the awfulness was the roster went bad. Idzik didnt help either

Rex went 8-8 with Geno in 2013

and in Buffalo he went 8-8 and 7-9. thats not awful. add in the fact he did it with Tyrod Taylor is pretty good. and McDermott only went 9-7 then 6-10. it wasnt until he got Josh Allen that McDermott is being called a good coach. 

if Rex could have a good QB just once he would have been a great coach.

and Rex hasnt got another HC job because guys dont get a 3rd shot, especially when their below 500. 

and i think its his attitude. how do you get fired with one game to go when your 7-8 in your 2nd year.

you dont have to have a long career to be a hero. 2009-10 were the 2 best years in Jets history. so yeah he deserves some herodom in "Jets Lore". maybe when we win a couple of SBs and win the AFC East a few times in a row it might seem different. but for now hes a hero.

 

Rex played a role in not having a QB.  He was on the same page with Tannenbaum when they re-signed Sanchez.  He should have been demanding a new QB once it was pretty clear Sanchez didn't have it.

And by the way, Tyrod Taylor played at a top 12 level in 2015.  Rex's defense failed the Bills that year, not the offense.  Rex fired Greg Roman the next season, lol.  

The "just get him a QB" argument is a tired one.  If that was really true, someone with a good QB would have hired him as a HC by now.  No one has, because that wouldn't be enough to prop Rex Ryan up.  

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Rex played a role in not having a QB.  He was on the same page with Tannenbaum when they re-signed Sanchez.  He should have been demanding a new QB once it was pretty clear Sanchez didn't have it.

And by the way, Tyrod Taylor played at a top 12 level in 2015.  Rex's defense failed the Bills that year, not the offense.  Rex fired Greg Roman the next season, lol.  

The "just get him a QB" argument is a tired one.  If that was really true, someone with a good QB would have hired him as a HC by now.  No one has, because that wouldn't be enough to prop Rex Ryan up.  

 

B7B49133-10C0-417C-8C3D-FD3F1E5C0E60.jpeg

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8 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

blah blah blah.  Mahomes would be #1?  Yeah, maybe all-time.  Mahomes went 10th, not 150th.  Besides, if he was worried about Mahomes coming out of Texas Tech, why not Watson?  That is the real question.  Was Maccagnan that worried about the ourlads radar gun?  

Maybe his sister was a massage therapist?

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Anyone mentioned Vernon Gholston yet? 

Sanchez had two AFC Championship Games.

Vernon didn't even have two sacks during practices. 

Whoever wrote that article should be fired or put him in the backseat with me and I'll kick his little ass all the way to two back to back AFC Championship Games. 

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Quick thought experiment:

-How would the 2009 and 2010 seasons looked different if you replace Sanchez with a league-average QB?

Next question:

-How would the 2009 and 2010 seasons looked different if you replaced the defense with a league-average defense?

Stop blaming the defense for those AFC Championship losses. 

 

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Gholston has to be the worst 1st Rounder but Hack is easily the worst pick IMO. Passing on Mahomes/Watson then the following years we could have had Quenton Nelson and DK Metcalf + 2 more second rounders.

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On 7/7/2021 at 9:37 AM, UntouchableCrew said:

I think it kind of depends on context.

Obviously Gholston and Hackneberg were much worse picks in terms of production relative to draft slot.

But this sentence summarizes the argument for Sanchez: “(He) quite easily cost one of the best rosters in the NFL a chance at a Super Bowl.”

It's not just his production it's the opportunity cost of having him at QB.

Sanchez was more than average in the playoffs. A SB ready roster doesn’t lose when your QB plays at nearly 100 rating. 

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