Prospects 2022 and random college ball talk.

[Chrebetfan80]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:21 PM, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I still can't get over how bad we are at generating turnovers. And it's not even from a lack of trying to strip the ball, the guys are clearly coached up in doing that, it's just such a lack of speed and ball skills on the back end.

0 safeties and 0 speed. thats the issues here.  I think Davis will come along and be a good player eventually (whether a solid backup or decent starter), but he's really just finally getting his first action of his career now, going to take a while for him to develop a little and not just be running around out there.  You can see some development, but he's still reading his keys a beat too slow. 

Other than that the safety position is a gaggle of crap, its just bums who will bounce around practice squads for the next 3 years.   Corners have been the bright spot as MC2 and Hall are starters for this team going forward.  all the other guys are good too once you get good play from other positions.  I like Echols a good deal as well. 

[Chrebetfan80]

On 11/19/2021 at 2:19 PM, sec101row23 said:

Pretty crazy stat if it’s accurate.  
 

 

 

this just makes me chub up...

Can we hope for a Hutchinson/Linderbaum combo?! that would be a hell of a round 1.  

Frees you up to go with anything you want in round two. 

[Paradis]

 

[kdels62]

Dane Brugler updated his top 50 players for the Athletic. I love Dane Brugler and thing he’s the best guy doing this draft stuff in the last few years. I’m not gonna post the whole list since I encourage getting The Athletic which is very good product. Here are some observations.

- 0 wide receivers in the top 15 but 6 in the top 30 

- Top WRs are in this order: Wilson, Jameson Williams, Burks, Olave, London, Dotson

- Top 3 Edge are Thibs, Hutch, Karlaftis and they all come through within the top 11 players

- 5 OL on top 10: Neal, Ekonwu, Cross, Penning, Linderbaum

- Stingley at 3… ew

- Second highest rated CB is at 15 and it’s Roger McCreary

- DeMarvin Leal falls to 21 confirming my recent observation that’s he’s been disappointing.

- Bernhard Raimann arrives at 34 

- Jalen Wydermyer is the only TE in the list and he’s at 49

- Ojabo at 26, Zion Johnson at 29, Daniel Faalele at 40, Isaiah Foskey at 42 are the most surprising inclusions.

- Cameron Thomas at 43 is an interesting player. Moves to Edge this year after being on the Interior for a few seasons. Not slow but definitely wins with strength. He’s likely a 34 DE but he’s impressive and his testing numbers will be interesting. 

[derp]

Thanks for posting, fun read. Agree Brugler does a really good job relative to some others.

It’s kind of an interesting demonstration of how the Jets could make an absolute killing in the 20-50 range of this class (that’s weak at the top anyway) but they’ve only got a couple picks in that range right now. 

No clue what they’re doing with edge and tackle but between the philosophical desire to build up front, the need to get better there, and the strength of this class at both spots I think both need to be addressed somewhere.

To me the depth of the classes and the warts the guys at the top have just make it easier to focus on adding at another position early. Opens up Hamilton as much as I don’t love the early safety.

Even the safety class is decent though. I guess why I keep coming back to Linderbaum.

There are just too many needs, too. The way this draft falls I think addressing edge, tackle, and WR within those first 4 picks is pretty important but that framework makes it difficult to address other spots where need/value may well match up in those first four picks like center, safety, linebacker, and maybe tight end.

I also continue to be intrigued by how Burks might fit but I think he’s going to go outside the Jets’ range.

[kdels62]

It’s hard to watch a game like the one against the Dolphins and think we should draft anything other than defense.

[Chrebetfan80]

19 hours ago, derp said:

Thanks for posting, fun read. Agree Brugler does a really good job relative to some others.

It’s kind of an interesting demonstration of how the Jets could make an absolute killing in the 20-50 range of this class (that’s weak at the top anyway) but they’ve only got a couple picks in that range right now. 

No clue what they’re doing with edge and tackle but between the philosophical desire to build up front, the need to get better there, and the strength of this class at both spots I think both need to be addressed somewhere.

To me the depth of the classes and the warts the guys at the top have just make it easier to focus on adding at another position early. Opens up Hamilton as much as I don’t love the early safety.

Even the safety class is decent though. I guess why I keep coming back to Linderbaum.

There are just too many needs, too. The way this draft falls I think addressing edge, tackle, and WR within those first 4 picks is pretty important but that framework makes it difficult to address other spots where need/value may well match up in those first four picks like center, safety, linebacker, and maybe tight end.

I also continue to be intrigued by how Burks might fit but I think he’s going to go outside the Jets’ range.

You can address two huge needs early with hutchinson and linderbaum and feel really good about the picks, but also, there so much more depth in that range like you said, it almost feels necessary to trade down.  

If you traded down and were able to acquire a mid first round pick where you could target WR/LB to pair with either Hutchinson or an OL in the first round while picking up another 2 it may be the way to go since there is going to be a good deal of depth at positions of need.  

I think everyone here is on the same page that this team needs massive amounts of talent, I dont think either scenario JD could go wrong.  If he stayed put and took two players top 12, I couldnt be mad.. If he traded down and got extra 2/3rds I also couldnt be mad.  FA is going to give us a clear indication where this team is going in the draft this year. JD adds and edge? then we prob dont go top 10, Adds an OL then thats probably out so on so forth. 

Safe to say though after watching these games, I cant see us not prioritizing Defense, and in particular LB/S, now idk if that means first round, but I definitely could see us adding one of each by the end of round 3. 

[Chrebetfan80]

15 hours ago, kdels62 said:

It’s hard to watch a game like the one against the Dolphins and think we should draft anything other than defense.

I still think we need help upfront on the right side to get better push in the run game.  Becton SHOULD help give us more push on the left, but getting another G/C in here to help beef up that interior for the run will do wonders for this offense. 

But I agree, watching the Defense, the team needs quality depth, and 1-2 new starters at LB and S.  

 

Outside of an early EDGE player, DL has to be reserved for later rounds.  Theres too much monetarily invested in the front 4 currently

[Chrebetfan80]

Also encouraging, and its very early in the process.  News came out this weekend, and talking to people they seem to agree early on that there is a large perception that up to 5 QBs will be taken in round 1 this year.  Now, where those QB's are taken is another matter all together, but if there can be some big risers.... 

Jets may get lucky on the trade front. 

[kdels62]

So here’s a guy that interesting:

Rachaad White, RB, Arizona State University 

Big upright running back with soft hands. Fast but not a burner and able to run patiently, or hit the hole aggressively. 6-2, 210 lbs with decent lateral quickness. I think he could be Ty Johnson’s successor behind Michael Carter for the next 5 years. 
 

 

[sec101row23]

8 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Also encouraging, and its very early in the process.  News came out this weekend, and talking to people they seem to agree early on that there is a large perception that up to 5 QBs will be taken in round 1 this year.  Now, where those QB's are taken is another matter all together, but if there can be some big risers.... 

Jets may get lucky on the trade front. 

Right now the Jets have 2 and 5 in the first round, those are some high picks.  You really just need two QBs to be considered worthy of a high selection for the trade value to be high.  

[Chrebetfan80]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

Right now the Jets have 2 and 5 in the first round, those are some high picks.  You really just need two QBs to be considered worthy of a high selection for the trade value to be high.  

I think the seattle pick will slide to around 10 eventually, I just have a hard time believing we'll have two top 5 picks.  If we do wowzers watch out. 

 

But that becomes the rub right.  You love to be able to add 2 of any combo of a Thibs, Hutchinson, Linderbaum, Neal, and Hamilton.  All blue chip prospects, and this team needs elite talent in the worst way.  

But if you add 1 and then say slide down to 15-20, add a 2nd and grab one of the afore mentioned guys and a Lloyd or Neal to start for the next decade at LB for you, or a WR  is that better or no?  I dont know honestly.  I am torn about each direction. 

[sec101row23]

3 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I think the seattle pick will slide to around 10 eventually, I just have a hard time believing we'll have two top 5 picks.  If we do wowzers watch out. 

 

But that becomes the rub right.  You love to be able to add 2 of any combo of a Thibs, Hutchinson, Linderbaum, Neal, and Hamilton.  All blue chip prospects, and this team needs elite talent in the worst way.  

But if you add 1 and then say slide down to 15-20, add a 2nd and grab one of the afore mentioned guys and a Lloyd or Neal to start for the next decade at LB for you, or a WR  is that better or no?  I dont know honestly.  I am torn about each direction. 

It’s going to be interesting, aside from Linderbaum what other offensive player do you feel comfortable taking in the top 10?   

[Chrebetfan80]

Just now, sec101row23 said:

It’s going to be interesting, aside from Linderbaum what other offensive player do you feel comfortable taking in the top 10?   

maybeeeee Neal.  Thats about it.  No WR is worth it to me, plus while we need one, I dont know if the need is so great id invest in one over other positions right now.  I think we could add WR in FA and be fine, even though I like a bunch of guys in this draft. 

You could make the case that first round is all defense.  Edge, LB, S are all prime players in the first round.  Hamilton is special.  I havent seen enough of the edge class otuside of thibs to make my own judgements, I'll leave that to others, but Its a premium position and there seems to be at least 3 guys that are suitable top 10-15. 

then LB, both Lloyd and Dean are excellent prospects. If you take either theres a good chance you have a big time impact starter like a devin bush. 

[Peace Frog]

Seattle is at 3-7 now and they still have SF, Rams and AZ again (likely with a healthy Murray).

So they likely have a minimum 10 losses.  @ Washington could be a loss.  

Likely wins against Houston, Chicago and Lions.  

So maybe they wind up 6-11 or 7-10. Not getting to 8 wins.  

[derp]

Seattle pick should be 6 if the Giants lose to the Bucs which seems likely. The Seahawks have a much harder schedule than a lot of other teams, though. A loss to the Cardinals without Murray or Hopkins is pretty gross. Wilson doesn’t look right and apparently wants out.

I don’t think you trade down with both the top picks but if that Seattle pick settles close to ten it’s probably a good spot to go OL or WR but also good to move down to a team that wants a QB.

This class is deep more than it’s top heavy. Even a guy like Hutchinson I think is more good than elite as a prospect. Hamilton ticks a ton of boxes but plays a non premium positions. We all agree on Stingley. It’s a lot of guys I’d rather take at 6-10 than 2-5. Even Thibodeaux isn’t a slam dunk #1 guy most years.

I also really think the offense still needs attention because you’re trying to develop a young QB and the offense staying on the field helps the defense. I’d rather build up the offense until they’re losing games while putting up points over the course of the game. Most of the time when they’re scoring now it’s garbage time.

Team can always use edge help but safety and linebacker are non premium positions. I’d love to address them but those can be picks in round 2 or early round three. The OL still needs help and a young QB and the offense as a whole would benefit from a better receiver. I think at least one of those should be addressed with the Seattle pick or a move down from that spot where need and value mesh.

I did just see a mock with Hutchinson to the Lions which would be quite interesting.

[Barry McCockinner]

What is going on with this years QB class? Right now we're slotted at #2 usually when you aren't taking a QB you look to trade down there. Could Thibodeaux make it to #2? Aside from him it seems like a must trade down situation, no? Are teams going to be looking to get to #2 for a QB as per usual?

[Chrebetfan80]

12 minutes ago, derp said:

Seattle pick should be 6 if the Giants lose to the Bucs which seems likely. The Seahawks have a much harder schedule than a lot of other teams, though. A loss to the Cardinals without Murray or Hopkins is pretty gross. Wilson doesn’t look right and apparently wants out.

I don’t think you trade down with both the top picks but if that Seattle pick settles close to ten it’s probably a good spot to go OL or WR but also good to move down to a team that wants a QB.

This class is deep more than it’s top heavy. Even a guy like Hutchinson I think is more good than elite as a prospect. Hamilton ticks a ton of boxes but plays a non premium positions. We all agree on Stingley. It’s a lot of guys I’d rather take at 6-10 than 2-5. Even Thibodeaux isn’t a slam dunk #1 guy most years.

I also really think the offense still needs attention because you’re trying to develop a young QB and the offense staying on the field helps the defense. I’d rather build up the offense until they’re losing games while putting up points over the course of the game. Most of the time when they’re scoring now it’s garbage time.

Team can always use edge help but safety and linebacker are non premium positions. I’d love to address them but those can be picks in round 2 or early round three. The OL still needs help and a young QB and the offense as a whole would benefit from a better receiver. I think at least one of those should be addressed with the Seattle pick or a move down from that spot where need and value mesh.

I did just see a mock with Hutchinson to the Lions which would be quite interesting.

You make good points here.  Cant argue with wanting to help Zach out more via the draft, which is why I am still advocating for the OL help.  I think its necessary to add a starter on the right side. 

The top of the draft leaves a lot to be desired, not a year where youre getting the bang for your buck in the top 5.  Makes me think if a QB shoots up in the pre draft process JD will be open to moving either of the picks to get to positions where need and value meet. 

I was thinking FA would help get some more weapons, specifically WR. but looks like theres gonna be a rush to sign guys seeing how denver just locked up Sutton to 4 for 60.8M.  May not be a ton of guys to choose from. 

[sec101row23]

9 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

What is going on with this years QB class? Right now we're slotted at #2 usually when you aren't taking a QB you look to trade down there. Could Thibodeaux make it to #2? Aside from him it seems like a must trade down situation, no? Are teams going to be looking to get to #2 for a QB as per usual?

I don’t see the QB who a team would want to move up all that much in this draft, especially to 2.  The QB sweet spot could be the 8-15 range.   Thibodeaux could absolutely be there at 2, especially if Hutchinson tests well.  

[sec101row23]

5 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

You make good points here.  Cant argue with wanting to help Zach out more via the draft, which is why I am still advocating for the OL help.  I think its necessary to add a starter on the right side. 

The top of the draft leaves a lot to be desired, not a year where youre getting the bang for your buck in the top 5.  Makes me think if a QB shoots up in the pre draft process JD will be open to moving either of the picks to get to positions where need and value meet. 

I was thinking FA would help get some more weapons, specifically WR. but looks like theres gonna be a rush to sign guys seeing how denver just locked up Sutton to 4 for 60.8M.  May not be a ton of guys to choose from. 

I think we see an epically bad free agency class this year, the salary cap bump will allow teams to keep anyone they want to thus leaving a pretty poor group of players.   

[Chrebetfan80]

5 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

I think we see an epically bad free agency class this year, the salary cap bump will allow teams to keep anyone they want to thus leaving a pretty poor group of players.   

yea im starting to agree with you... I think alot of teams are going to lock up guys ahead of time so they dont have to get into a bidding war with teams flush with cap.  

All the more reason to trade down and acquire more picks.  Team needs a lot of talent, and the more pics the more we can add.  

[derp]

42 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

You make good points here.  Cant argue with wanting to help Zach out more via the draft, which is why I am still advocating for the OL help.  I think its necessary to add a starter on the right side. 

The top of the draft leaves a lot to be desired, not a year where youre getting the bang for your buck in the top 5.  Makes me think if a QB shoots up in the pre draft process JD will be open to moving either of the picks to get to positions where need and value meet. 

I was thinking FA would help get some more weapons, specifically WR. but looks like theres gonna be a rush to sign guys seeing how denver just locked up Sutton to 4 for 60.8M.  May not be a ton of guys to choose from. 

Right or wrong too, Douglas just doesn't sign serious free agents. The guys he's going to add are going to be #2 receivers, solid safeties, fringe starter caliber tight ends, linemen on either side of the ball he thinks are going to break out...I think it's beneficial cap situation wise - it'll be fun not to have $30M in dead cap next season - and it'll help if guys prove to be worth re-signing in the future. But if it's a long-term hole today it'll probably be a long-term hole draft day too. 

Honestly for all the desire to build the defense, stuff like safety and off ball linebacker can be addressed in free agency. Particularly when the goal is to get to having capable players at what are non-premium positions, not just fishing for superstars. Those are the kinds of boring signings I think you can make to help the team in free agency but I don't know how much a mid-level signing at WR or OT really helps. Difference makers are what they really need at those positions. Even just having solid starters at linebacker and safety would be a big difference.

But if he wants to address linebacker and safety via FA and the draft I do think there are a lot of guys in this class at both spots and they can be pretty capably addressed on day two. Safety especially I think Douglas will be able to go into the draft confident that he'll be able to pick a guy capable of competing for day one snaps somewhere.

I think the heavy favorite is that the right side starter comes from the Seattle pick and edge gets addressed with the Jets' pick. Long term need, short term need, philosophy, and draft board value kind of all converge there. I could see waiting on tackle since it's the right side but at this stage I think there's a very real chance Becton isn't a long-term answer there and so taking a tackle at ten-ish - when it just kind of fits into who the top guys on the board will be at that time.

[Chrebetfan80]

2 hours ago, derp said:

Right or wrong too, Douglas just doesn't sign serious free agents. The guys he's going to add are going to be #2 receivers, solid safeties, fringe starter caliber tight ends, linemen on either side of the ball he thinks are going to break out...I think it's beneficial cap situation wise - it'll be fun not to have $30M in dead cap next season - and it'll help if guys prove to be worth re-signing in the future. But if it's a long-term hole today it'll probably be a long-term hole draft day too. 

Honestly for all the desire to build the defense, stuff like safety and off ball linebacker can be addressed in free agency. Particularly when the goal is to get to having capable players at what are non-premium positions, not just fishing for superstars. Those are the kinds of boring signings I think you can make to help the team in free agency but I don't know how much a mid-level signing at WR or OT really helps. Difference makers are what they really need at those positions. Even just having solid starters at linebacker and safety would be a big difference.

But if he wants to address linebacker and safety via FA and the draft I do think there are a lot of guys in this class at both spots and they can be pretty capably addressed on day two. Safety especially I think Douglas will be able to go into the draft confident that he'll be able to pick a guy capable of competing for day one snaps somewhere.

I think the heavy favorite is that the right side starter comes from the Seattle pick and edge gets addressed with the Jets' pick. Long term need, short term need, philosophy, and draft board value kind of all converge there. I could see waiting on tackle since it's the right side but at this stage I think there's a very real chance Becton isn't a long-term answer there and so taking a tackle at ten-ish - when it just kind of fits into who the top guys on the board will be at that time.

I think JD would like to bring in some big time FA's but he hasnt gotten them to sign or in the case of this season, dont think there will be many available.  He did have a rather high number out there for Thuney, I think in some aspects it was better than KC but obviously he wanted to play for a winner.  That hurts the jets quite a bit in that area. 

The most sensible way to go in the draft to get value and need are Edge and OL with the first two picks.  It all meets there and there are enough guys at spots of need to fit the value of the picks.   I'm really just playing devils advocate here saying that if he wanted to trade down and acquire more picks, he could select a day 1 starter at another positions (maybe not premium positions like LB as I suggested) and have more ammo for those crucial depth areas of 15-50 in the draft. 

My gut tells me between the guys we list, JD will find at least 2 to fall in love with top 12. whether it be linderbaum, hamilton, neal, karlaftis, hutchinson.. somebody will catch his eye enough to stay put unless there is a significant offer on the table. 

again, my bet continues to be hutchinson/linderbaum. 

If we trade down, ill be interested to see the WR market and where guys are getting pushed.  Wilson is being mocked top 12 in mocks ive seen. i dont see us going WR that high. 

[derp]

20 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

I think JD would like to bring in some big time FA's but he hasnt gotten them to sign or in the case of this season, dont think there will be many available.  He did have a rather high number out there for Thuney, I think in some aspects it was better than KC but obviously he wanted to play for a winner.  That hurts the jets quite a bit in that area. 

The most sensible way to go in the draft to get value and need are Edge and OL with the first two picks.  It all meets there and there are enough guys at spots of need to fit the value of the picks.   I'm really just playing devils advocate here saying that if he wanted to trade down and acquire more picks, he could select a day 1 starter at another positions (maybe not premium positions like LB as I suggested) and have more ammo for those crucial depth areas of 15-50 in the draft. 

My gut tells me between the guys we list, JD will find at least 2 to fall in love with top 12. whether it be linderbaum, hamilton, neal, karlaftis, hutchinson.. somebody will catch his eye enough to stay put unless there is a significant offer on the table. 

again, my bet continues to be hutchinson/linderbaum. 

If we trade down, ill be interested to see the WR market and where guys are getting pushed.  Wilson is being mocked top 12 in mocks ive seen. i dont see us going WR that high. 

Yeah I could see him ideally wanting to make that happen and maybe being able to get a big number out there in an ideal scenario - but we also haven't seen him go over three years for a FA. The kinds of contracts he's giving out probably aren't going to move the needle and guys like to play for winning teams, especially if they're not getting ridiculously overpaid to do it. Linsley too. Even if he would've wanted Mosley I don't think he would've overpaid to get him or a Trumaine Johnson here like Maccagnan did - and that might not be a bad thing in most circumstances.

I totally agree with your devils advocate, brought it up before. I think trading down opens things up a little bit more. Really I suppose it boils down to whether he's willing to take a first round OL for the third consecutive year. I think that's where value will be with the Seattle pick. And then if not, what's the long-term plan at tackle - because if you need one this is probably the draft to accomplish that. That is the one thing that I think makes Linderbaum a tick less likely. I don't think Neal-Linderbaum is likely and if you go Hutchinson-Linderbaum I'm not sure who makes sense as the long-term tackle replacement. Suppose that can be kicked down the curb a year but I could see regretting not taking on of this year's guys - although I doubt anyone regrets taking Linderbaum so maybe it's not a big deal. I do think Hutchinson is the favorite to go with the first pick though - or even Thibodeaux if Detroit takes Hutchinson.

Really really interested in the WR market too. I almost think someone has to be there with the first second round selection but I suppose that clustered tier could push guys up a little since if teams want one they'll likely want one of the top seven or so. I continue to be particularly intrigued by Burks. I know he's a little rough around the edges but I think that's maybe okay because Davis and Moore are competent enough to let Burks be a #3 option to start things off - his build and YAC ability make it possible to scheme some touches for him early (I don't think this would be as much of an option for Mims for example) and fit the scheme and he's explosive enough to add an element to the offense that someone like Crowder really doesn't. You've forgotten more about WR play than I'll know and I imagine he doesn't tick a lot of the technical boxes but I think day one role, scheme fit, and long-term complement to Moore he's the most interesting guy.

[sec101row23]

 

[kdels62]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

 

Probably guaranteed 1st rounders: 
Thibs, Linderbaum, Hamilton, Hutchinson, Karlaftis, Stingley, Neal, Cross, Ekonwu, Green, Dean, Wilson, Burks, Lloyd, Jordan Davis

Last three probably come from a pool of: McCreary, McDuffie, Elam, Leal, Jameson Williams, London, Drake Jackson, Ojabo, Adam Anderson(pre-legal issues), Dotson, Brisker, Penning, Travon Walker. 

[Barry McCockinner]

33 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

 

I mean isn't that just our luck? We get 2 top 5 picks and there aren't any QB's in the draft. tf

[Guilhermezmc]

Is Hutchinson a Edge worth taking top 5? Is he athletic enough to translate to the NFL?

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Guilhermezmc said:

Is Hutchinson a Edge worth taking top 5? Is he athletic enough to translate to the NFL?

I think he is.  Follwoing is from Bruce Feldman's column in athe Athletic -- he has Hutchinson as #2 on his list of 50 athletic freaks in the 2022 draft class.

2. Aidan Hutchinson, Michigan, defensive end

After an injury-shortened season that limited him to three games with 15 tackles, sources inside the program expect Hutchinson, who made 68 tackles, 10 tackles for loss and 4.5 sacks in 2019, to have a huge 2021 season. We had his former teammate Kwity Paye at the top of this list a year ago, and we hear that 265-pound Hutchinson is every bit as big a Freak.

“He’s gonna test really well when he goes to the combine,” one source said. “He has a huge chip on his shoulder and can be right where Kwity was (in those agility numbers), running low 4.6s, with a mid-30s vert, but he’s over 6-6, and he’s gonna bench (225) in the 30s.”

While at Michigan, Paye clocked the second-best 3-cone time on the team at 6.37. This offseason, Hutchinson timed 6.54, which would’ve been better than anyone at the 2020 combine. In addition, he vertical jumped 36 inches, ran a 4.64 40 and ripped off a 4.07 shuttle time. Hutchinson also did a 2.57-second reactive plyo stair, which at 265, amazed even his strength coaches. He is the first athlete that veteran strength coach Ben Herbert has witnessed do a “Turkish Get-up” with 135 pounds and no collars (to lock on the plates) in 24 years working in college weight rooms. (Any mistake or hint of imbalance in keeping the bar perfectly level, and the weight will slide off.)

 

[maury77]

Are you guys really buying into the Thibodeaux hype? I haven't watched tape this year, but from last year I thought he was a little thin for a 4-3 end and his pass rush was pretty raw. 

[Claymation]

This is a big weekend for Hutchinson, play well against Petit-Frere, if he does it will solidify him being a top 5 prospect.

Treylon Burks reminds me of Andre Johnson, doubt he is there in the 2nd but he’s my favorite WR prospect this upcoming draft.

[Guilhermezmc]

1 hour ago, maury77 said:

Are you guys really buying into the Thibodeaux hype? I haven't watched tape this year, but from last year I thought he was a little thin for a 4-3 end and his pass rush was pretty raw. 

He's not that raw, i like what i have seen so far

[Chrebetfan80]

18 hours ago, derp said:

Yeah I could see him ideally wanting to make that happen and maybe being able to get a big number out there in an ideal scenario - but we also haven't seen him go over three years for a FA. The kinds of contracts he's giving out probably aren't going to move the needle and guys like to play for winning teams, especially if they're not getting ridiculously overpaid to do it. Linsley too. Even if he would've wanted Mosley I don't think he would've overpaid to get him or a Trumaine Johnson here like Maccagnan did - and that might not be a bad thing in most circumstances.

I totally agree with your devils advocate, brought it up before. I think trading down opens things up a little bit more. Really I suppose it boils down to whether he's willing to take a first round OL for the third consecutive year. I think that's where value will be with the Seattle pick. And then if not, what's the long-term plan at tackle - because if you need one this is probably the draft to accomplish that. That is the one thing that I think makes Linderbaum a tick less likely. I don't think Neal-Linderbaum is likely and if you go Hutchinson-Linderbaum I'm not sure who makes sense as the long-term tackle replacement. Suppose that can be kicked down the curb a year but I could see regretting not taking on of this year's guys - although I doubt anyone regrets taking Linderbaum so maybe it's not a big deal. I do think Hutchinson is the favorite to go with the first pick though - or even Thibodeaux if Detroit takes Hutchinson.

Really really interested in the WR market too. I almost think someone has to be there with the first second round selection but I suppose that clustered tier could push guys up a little since if teams want one they'll likely want one of the top seven or so. I continue to be particularly intrigued by Burks. I know he's a little rough around the edges but I think that's maybe okay because Davis and Moore are competent enough to let Burks be a #3 option to start things off - his build and YAC ability make it possible to scheme some touches for him early (I don't think this would be as much of an option for Mims for example) and fit the scheme and he's explosive enough to add an element to the offense that someone like Crowder really doesn't. You've forgotten more about WR play than I'll know and I imagine he doesn't tick a lot of the technical boxes but I think day one role, scheme fit, and long-term complement to Moore he's the most interesting guy.

Yea i can agree with that, i do think there will be no one to garner huge money this offseason out in FA because as were seeing now a lot of the top guys are getting locked up.  There definitely needs to be depth added through FA though.  Whether it be offensive line, WR or defensively.  JD needs to use the cap to his advantage and bring in solid guys to help this rebuild. 

You make a good point about the Tackle situation.  Fant has been great so that gives them some leeway on if they want to push this back a year. but the tackle talent this year is there and available at the picks we have.  It wouldnt be crazy to add a tackle either.  In fact i would guarantee thats the way we go if Linderbaum wasnt so damn good.  JD does seem to adhere to positional value though so if the grade is close between a Linderbaum and Neal I could see Neal being the favorite.  I guess it just really depends on how insanely highly graded Linderbaum is and does he view him as a quentin nelson like piece that will turn around a line. 

Burkes is an interesting topic.  I obviously have been pretty adamant that as of right now I view wilson as the #1 WR in this draft.  The problem is I do not think the jets will be in a position to take him if they trade down.  I have a feeling wilson will go top 12/15 when all is said and done. Technically burkes leaves a lot to be desired and while what he does have is excellent, theres going to be some developmental things he has to work on at the next level. I like him quite a bit, and probably because of his tools he's my #2 in this draft.  However, forced to choose between the 2?  Idk its tough, i think the offense functions a little better with a guy like wilson than burkes initially, but burkes size and ability on contested catches does provide something that we dont really have (even though we though davis would be that guy).  Really I wouldnt be upset with either of them obviously.  I fall in love with guys that are route technicians though because those guys always work in the league, and Wilson may be the best in this draft running routes.  Ive said it before but he reminds me of robert woods alot. 

[Lith]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

You make a good point about the Tackle situation.  Fant has been great so that gives them some leeway on if they want to push this back a year. but the tackle talent this year is there and available at the picks we have.  It wouldnt be crazy to add a tackle either.  In fact i would guarantee thats the way we go if Linderbaum wasnt so damn good.  JD does seem to adhere to positional value though so if the grade is close between a Linderbaum and Neal I could see Neal being the favorite.  I guess it just really depends on how insanely highly graded Linderbaum is and does he view him as a quentin nelson like piece that will turn around a line. 

Tackle will be an interesting position for us in the offseason.  Really curious to see how JD handles it. 

Fant has been very good for us.  Excellent in the pass game, probably below average as a run blocker -- but I would rather it be this way than the other way around.  Moses likely will be gone next year.  At this point, I have no idea what to expect from Becton.  He was dominant at times as a rookie, but has not been able to stay healthy.  Fant was not very good last year on the right side.  Don't know if Becton can play there.  If you draft Neal, not sure what you do with all 3 of them, unless Neal can move inside for a year or two while we figure out where things stand with Becton and Fant.  I believe Neal did play one season at guard for Bama.  Neal gives us more flexibility than Linderbaum in the event Becton misses time again next year.  But Linderbaum may be the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft.

My head hurts just thinking about the options and possibilities.

 

[kdels62]

13 hours ago, maury77 said:

Are you guys really buying into the Thibodeaux hype? I haven't watched tape this year, but from last year I thought he was a little thin for a 4-3 end and his pass rush was pretty raw. 

He’s definitely bulked up. He’s got a crazy broad chest so he actually looks like he isn’t maxed out yet either. Besides that you’re not wrong about his pass rush lacking a plan. He doesn’t use many counter moves yet but he’s first move is close to elite. He’s not Garrett and he’s not Chase Young, but he’s a freak with every tool.