Prospects 2022 and random college ball talk.

[kdels62]

PSA I’m gonna do my @Paradis impression and say we cannot exit this draft without 2 TIGHT END prospects. In order:

Trey McBride (Late Round 1)

Isaiah Likely (Round 2)

Jeremy Ruckert (Round 2)

Jalen Wydermyer (Round 2)

Josh Whyle (Round 2)

Brant Kuithe (Round 2)

Cole Turner (Round 3)

Greg Dulcich (Round 3)

Cade Otton (Round 4)

Will Mallory (Round 4)

Derrick Deese Jr. (Round 5)

After those guys it’s a bunch of dudes I’m mild on but could fill in as depth. (LaPorta, Ferguson, Stogner, Calcaterra)

[Chrebetfan80]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

Tackle will be an interesting position for us in the offseason.  Really curious to see how JD handles it. 

Fant has been very good for us.  Excellent in the pass game, probably below average as a run blocker -- but I would rather it be this way than the other way around.  Moses likely will be gone next year.  At this point, I have no idea what to expect from Becton.  He was dominant at times as a rookie, but has not been able to stay healthy.  Fant was not very good last year on the right side.  Don't know if Becton can play there.  If you draft Neal, not sure what you do with all 3 of them, unless Neal can move inside for a year or two while we figure out where things stand with Becton and Fant.  I believe Neal did play one season at guard for Bama.  Neal gives us more flexibility than Linderbaum in the event Becton misses time again next year.  But Linderbaum may be the closest thing to a sure thing in this draft.

My head hurts just thinking about the options and possibilities.

 

Neal has played LT, RT, and I believe RG at bama, definitely did time at guard just not sure if it was left or right.  THat is also a very good selling point for Neal.  He offers protection and versatility, which we know JD covets in the OL.  It was a big part of the evaluation of Vera Tucker last year too. 

Becton is a little snake bit.  I cant say injury prone yet because honestly the strained pec seemed to be mismanaged last year by a staff that had no idea what they were doing, and this year a OL rolled up into his knee, no amount of conditioning or injury prevention can stop that.  He definitely deserves more time before saying he cant stay healthy enough to man the LT position.  We'll see when he comes back this year hoepfully what we can get out of him. 

[derp]

5 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Yea i can agree with that, i do think there will be no one to garner huge money this offseason out in FA because as were seeing now a lot of the top guys are getting locked up.  There definitely needs to be depth added through FA though.  Whether it be offensive line, WR or defensively.  JD needs to use the cap to his advantage and bring in solid guys to help this rebuild. 

You make a good point about the Tackle situation.  Fant has been great so that gives them some leeway on if they want to push this back a year. but the tackle talent this year is there and available at the picks we have.  It wouldnt be crazy to add a tackle either.  In fact i would guarantee thats the way we go if Linderbaum wasnt so damn good.  JD does seem to adhere to positional value though so if the grade is close between a Linderbaum and Neal I could see Neal being the favorite.  I guess it just really depends on how insanely highly graded Linderbaum is and does he view him as a quentin nelson like piece that will turn around a line. 

Burkes is an interesting topic.  I obviously have been pretty adamant that as of right now I view wilson as the #1 WR in this draft.  The problem is I do not think the jets will be in a position to take him if they trade down.  I have a feeling wilson will go top 12/15 when all is said and done. Technically burkes leaves a lot to be desired and while what he does have is excellent, theres going to be some developmental things he has to work on at the next level. I like him quite a bit, and probably because of his tools he's my #2 in this draft.  However, forced to choose between the 2?  Idk its tough, i think the offense functions a little better with a guy like wilson than burkes initially, but burkes size and ability on contested catches does provide something that we dont really have (even though we though davis would be that guy).  Really I wouldnt be upset with either of them obviously.  I fall in love with guys that are route technicians though because those guys always work in the league, and Wilson may be the best in this draft running routes.  Ive said it before but he reminds me of robert woods alot. 

Oh they absolutely need to add depth. Tight end, linebacker, safety, probably wide receiver. I think that’s where the draft stuff gets interesting because as of today they really need help at linebacker and safety but I think those needs can get addressed in FA. Draft would be good too but they’re not going to go into the draft without addressing those spots.

Positions like tackle, edge, and center I think need to be addressed via the draft somewhere but I just don’t know where they happen. If I was Douglas as much as I like some of the receivers in this draft class I’d be inclined to address it aggressively in free agency to focus elsewhere in the draft.

Figure positions that would make sense to address in the first three rounds include T, iOL, TE, WR, LB, S, and edge - and they could double up at a few of those spots.

The ones I think need to be drafted are long-term center (is that Linderbaum and kick McGovern to guard or a mid-round development guy), tackle (is that a round 2-4 depth guy you’re going to let compete with Fant or a day one starter in the first, I do think Raimann would be kind of ideal at the top of the second), and edge. Edge is also kind of interesting, it’s really similar to tackle. Important position but two starters are coming back (Lawson, JFM), you don’t know what you have long-term in really any of them (Lawson and Becton haven’t played, JFM is early in the new deal, Fant’s run blocking isn’t a great fit), and you’re not entirely sure what they’re looking for.

At edge Lawson and JFM are very very different physically and that meshes with what they had in SF with Bosa and Armstead but they still had other bodies like Ford. Which kind of guy do they want to add to bolster the rotation, or both?

I really really struggle with the idea of where tackle and edge are best addressed because they’re round one positions but honestly I don’t think they’re round one needs and you could argue for the class depth in either direction. Still think someone like Raimann at the top of the second is ideal and if the Jets are returning Lawson and JFM looking at Brugler’s top 50 adding a guy like Foskey, Cameron Thomas, Logan Hall, Jermaine Johnson, or Enagbare with the Carolina 2…it’s maybe not ideal but it’s not bad, especially if you can do more in the first.

I do think the three positions that go off a cliff after the early second round are all offense - OT, C, WR. The TE conversation basically starts at that point. Edge, LB, and S should have quality depth up to the Carolina pick and beyond. Some special guys available earlier though.

I think Burks and Wilson is an interesting conversation. Wilson is certainly more of a sure thing and to an extent that’s important for the Jets but I just like Burks’ fit from an upside, complement to Moore, scheme fit standpoint. I think with Moore and Davis I want the Jets to draft someone to play a Deebo Samuel rookie season type role and bring him along slowly and I like Burks the best for that. Like the idea of giving a guy easy touches early in a gadget role and expanding since I think being on the field helps for development. And I am a sucker for guys who have the potential to win with tools. I do like Wilson quite a bit too.

[Paradis]

4 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Trey McBride (Late Round 1)

Isaiah Likely (Round 2)

Jeremy Ruckert (Round 2)

Jalen Wydermyer (Round 2)

That grouping right there is... *chef's kiss*

We must leave april with at least 1 of those 4 names.

[kdels62]

17 hours ago, Paradis said:

That grouping right there is... *chef's kiss*

We must leave april with at least 1 of those 4 names.

That’s funny because I was originally gonna tier it into two groups but settled on round grades. Brant Kuithe and Josh Whyle have really grown on me recently.

[kdels62]

I’ll say it. I am not convinced by Aidan Hutchinson. Idk why but I watch him and I feel like something lacks in his game.

[Chrebetfan80]

17 hours ago, derp said:

Oh they absolutely need to add depth. Tight end, linebacker, safety, probably wide receiver. I think that’s where the draft stuff gets interesting because as of today they really need help at linebacker and safety but I think those needs can get addressed in FA. Draft would be good too but they’re not going to go into the draft without addressing those spots.

Positions like tackle, edge, and center I think need to be addressed via the draft somewhere but I just don’t know where they happen. If I was Douglas as much as I like some of the receivers in this draft class I’d be inclined to address it aggressively in free agency to focus elsewhere in the draft.

Figure positions that would make sense to address in the first three rounds include T, iOL, TE, WR, LB, S, and edge - and they could double up at a few of those spots.

The ones I think need to be drafted are long-term center (is that Linderbaum and kick McGovern to guard or a mid-round development guy), tackle (is that a round 2-4 depth guy you’re going to let compete with Fant or a day one starter in the first, I do think Raimann would be kind of ideal at the top of the second), and edge. Edge is also kind of interesting, it’s really similar to tackle. Important position but two starters are coming back (Lawson, JFM), you don’t know what you have long-term in really any of them (Lawson and Becton haven’t played, JFM is early in the new deal, Fant’s run blocking isn’t a great fit), and you’re not entirely sure what they’re looking for.

At edge Lawson and JFM are very very different physically and that meshes with what they had in SF with Bosa and Armstead but they still had other bodies like Ford. Which kind of guy do they want to add to bolster the rotation, or both?

I really really struggle with the idea of where tackle and edge are best addressed because they’re round one positions but honestly I don’t think they’re round one needs and you could argue for the class depth in either direction. Still think someone like Raimann at the top of the second is ideal and if the Jets are returning Lawson and JFM looking at Brugler’s top 50 adding a guy like Foskey, Cameron Thomas, Logan Hall, Jermaine Johnson, or Enagbare with the Carolina 2…it’s maybe not ideal but it’s not bad, especially if you can do more in the first.

I do think the three positions that go off a cliff after the early second round are all offense - OT, C, WR. The TE conversation basically starts at that point. Edge, LB, and S should have quality depth up to the Carolina pick and beyond. Some special guys available earlier though.

I think Burks and Wilson is an interesting conversation. Wilson is certainly more of a sure thing and to an extent that’s important for the Jets but I just like Burks’ fit from an upside, complement to Moore, scheme fit standpoint. I think with Moore and Davis I want the Jets to draft someone to play a Deebo Samuel rookie season type role and bring him along slowly and I like Burks the best for that. Like the idea of giving a guy easy touches early in a gadget role and expanding since I think being on the field helps for development. And I am a sucker for guys who have the potential to win with tools. I do like Wilson quite a bit too.

alot to unpack here. 

FA is going to be about quality depth because a lot of the big name guys will be gone before FA. We're seeing it now, teams locking up guys mid year at a higher rate because they know the whole market will be flush with cash.  Some guys may opt to hit the market to drive up their price but we'll see.  I dont know how many quality starters youll end up getting a shot at in FA, but there are interesting names out there. 

Marcus Williams with the saints would be an interesting move for the Jets.  Gotta figure they offer Maye a low ball deal since he'll be rehabbing the achillies, but to get another cover guy in the back end would be good. 

Also interesting to see what happens Barnett.  The jets have been linked to him for a few years now, and that is someone that if signed would probably deter the jets from taking an edge high in this draft.  

theres a bunch of interesting guys but hard to say who will hit FA or not.  

 

As for the draft, I would be surprised right now going if the first pick is not an Edge player. Team needs to impact the passer more than they have and it allows for more rotations on the DL.  Hutchinson/Karlaftis/Thibs all allow the jets to get creative on 3rd and long while also keeping De's fresh.  If the DE's next year are Lawson, Huff, JFM, and Rookie you feel good about having 4 guys that can get after it, and on 3rd and long you can kick JFM inside and bring more speed off the edge with the Rookie/Huff.  

But I do acknowledge that with the amount we have invested there, its possible to be able to sign Barnette, skip drafting an Edge, get the same result, and now be able to maneuver for OL and WR/ more defense in the first round. 

Alot of ways it can go but I do see them going either Edge or OL with the first pick since the value meets the need and BPA there.  now whether thats Linderbaum or Neal I have no idea.  You can make an equal case for both.  Neal allows more flexibility across the OL, you can start him at guard if you and, RT, but also insurance for LT, but also like you said you can get a tackle in the 2nd and be happy with that, while also still having Becton and Fant.   So do you take Linderbaum, who is maybe the best OL prospect period, but also allows you to upgrade two positions at once.  However, he's not a valued position.  To me, I take linderbaum and a tackle later, but I could see it both ways. 

Funny, I dont see burks in that deebo mold really.  He's a bigger guy, to me he kind of reminds me of Chase Claypool.  not saying he's a bad fit for the offense, but i dont see him being the swiss army knife deebo has been for San Fran.  Id have to look through all of the prospects to see if i can find a guy like that in this draft.  I just havent had the time to deep dive into those middle of the pack guys.  Ive said it before to me Wilson has a lot of robert woods to his game, good route runner, good at finding holes in the zone, very sure handed.  Last year OSU had him in the backfield as a wing a lot running routes from roll out and backside overs like the rams do with woods.  Now idk if he's the blocker that woods is, but im saying their game is reminiscent of each other.  Burks like i said reminds me of claypool.  Big guy, 6'3 230+ (Claypool is 6'4 230). Wins a lot of contested catches, great body control, good speed. Long strider.   I could find room in the offense for each of their skill sets and not be upset about it.  

[Chrebetfan80]

38 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I’ll say it. I am not convinced by Aidan Hutchinson. Idk why but I watch him and I feel like something lacks in his game.

all the guys have warts. Its not a clear cut top of the draft this year unfortunately.  Thats also why I think theres so much intrigue, you can go a number of ways.  I also think it helps the case of a Linderbaum because in a year where theres not big time stand out consensus talent, it may be the kind of year where you just take your favorite guy and say screw the positional value. 

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

all the guys have warts. Its not a clear cut top of the draft this year unfortunately.  Thats also why I think theres so much intrigue, you can go a number of ways.  I also think it helps the case of a Linderbaum because in a year where theres not big time stand out consensus talent, it may be the kind of year where you just take your favorite guy and say screw the positional value. 

Okay I figured it out. Hutchinson is clearly a good athlete with decent burst and really good agility. But he doesn’t win in ways that’s translate to the NFL. He doesn’t jolt back OL with a long arm or chest control instead his primary move is either make a false step in the space between the OL and himself and hope the tackle bites or it’s a Bull rush made up of lowering his head and thrusting both arms forward. He has a decent rip but his set up isn’t great. Doesn’t show a swim, spin or push/pull move in this game. In the NFL, Hutchinson gets long armed in the chest and controlled. This Penn State game is considered his best game and it’s where I finally had my aha moment. 

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Okay I figured it out. Hutchinson is clearly a good athlete with decent burst and really good agility. But he doesn’t win in ways that’s translate to the NFL. He doesn’t jolt back OL with a long arm or chest control instead his primary move is either make a false step in the space between the OL and himself and hope the tackle bites or it’s a Bull rush made up of lowering his head and thrusting both arms forward. He has a decent rip but his set up isn’t great. Doesn’t show a swim, spin or push/pull move in this game. In the NFL, Hutchinson gets long armed in the chest and controlled. This Penn State game is considered his best game and it’s where I finally had my aha moment. 

Great observations.  Certainly not a repertoire of moves on display in that film.  There are two things that stuck out to me.  

1. Hand placement, he routinely get his hands on the outside of the tackle rather than making contact at the chest and getting hands down. He's getting shoulders and not using his hands at all to disengage. 

2. Michigan is doing him a big time disservice standing him up every play.  Its killing his momentum.  He has good burst, accentuate that and fire out of a stance.  I hate when teams stand guys up, its a less efficient start than a 3 point stance. 

[derp]

On 11/24/2021 at 9:42 AM, Chrebetfan80 said:

alot to unpack here. 

FA is going to be about quality depth because a lot of the big name guys will be gone before FA. We're seeing it now, teams locking up guys mid year at a higher rate because they know the whole market will be flush with cash.  Some guys may opt to hit the market to drive up their price but we'll see.  I dont know how many quality starters youll end up getting a shot at in FA, but there are interesting names out there. 

Marcus Williams with the saints would be an interesting move for the Jets.  Gotta figure they offer Maye a low ball deal since he'll be rehabbing the achillies, but to get another cover guy in the back end would be good. 

Also interesting to see what happens Barnett.  The jets have been linked to him for a few years now, and that is someone that if signed would probably deter the jets from taking an edge high in this draft.  

theres a bunch of interesting guys but hard to say who will hit FA or not.  

 

As for the draft, I would be surprised right now going if the first pick is not an Edge player. Team needs to impact the passer more than they have and it allows for more rotations on the DL.  Hutchinson/Karlaftis/Thibs all allow the jets to get creative on 3rd and long while also keeping De's fresh.  If the DE's next year are Lawson, Huff, JFM, and Rookie you feel good about having 4 guys that can get after it, and on 3rd and long you can kick JFM inside and bring more speed off the edge with the Rookie/Huff.  

But I do acknowledge that with the amount we have invested there, its possible to be able to sign Barnette, skip drafting an Edge, get the same result, and now be able to maneuver for OL and WR/ more defense in the first round. 

Alot of ways it can go but I do see them going either Edge or OL with the first pick since the value meets the need and BPA there.  now whether thats Linderbaum or Neal I have no idea.  You can make an equal case for both.  Neal allows more flexibility across the OL, you can start him at guard if you and, RT, but also insurance for LT, but also like you said you can get a tackle in the 2nd and be happy with that, while also still having Becton and Fant.   So do you take Linderbaum, who is maybe the best OL prospect period, but also allows you to upgrade two positions at once.  However, he's not a valued position.  To me, I take linderbaum and a tackle later, but I could see it both ways. 

Funny, I dont see burks in that deebo mold really.  He's a bigger guy, to me he kind of reminds me of Chase Claypool.  not saying he's a bad fit for the offense, but i dont see him being the swiss army knife deebo has been for San Fran.  Id have to look through all of the prospects to see if i can find a guy like that in this draft.  I just havent had the time to deep dive into those middle of the pack guys.  Ive said it before to me Wilson has a lot of robert woods to his game, good route runner, good at finding holes in the zone, very sure handed.  Last year OSU had him in the backfield as a wing a lot running routes from roll out and backside overs like the rams do with woods.  Now idk if he's the blocker that woods is, but im saying their game is reminiscent of each other.  Burks like i said reminds me of claypool.  Big guy, 6'3 230+ (Claypool is 6'4 230). Wins a lot of contested catches, great body control, good speed. Long strider.   I could find room in the offense for each of their skill sets and not be upset about it.  

I think my big beef with edge with that first pick is I’m a little meh on Hutchinson like kdels and this class is overall pretty elite. I just don’t think they miss much by waiting. But I love the idea of adding to the position in the class. If they can address other positions thoroughly in FA it’d be awesome if they could double dip at edge in this class. As you said they do rotate quite a bit, it’s a need, and it’s important. I think the OL makes a little more sense with the first pick for that reason. Realistically the top of this class is weak and I just don’t like picking there. But I like the OL who will be drafted early a tick more relative to the rest of the class than the edges who will be drafted early relative to the rest of that class - if that makes sense. Although they could edge early and double dip.

I can kind of see the Burks-Claypool comparison. Both pretty elite physically and Pittsburgh schemes some stuff for Claypool. I think even though the size is similar they’re built very differently. Few reasons I mentioned Burks for the Deebo role - I don’t think the class has a great fit fit for that either but Deebo is pretty unique. As you said Burks is thick - I think that’s one of Deebo’s more unique traits. Maybe Burks is actually 6’3 and he looks shorter because he’s so thick but I think he’ll come in a tick under. I think to get used on those more gadget-y plays and hold up it helps to be bigger. Other is the way Burks is used at Arkansas. His YAC numbers are impressive, between 8 and 9 I think, and he’s given a good amount of carries - more than most of the rest of the WR class. I think the run after catch ability and carry experience are well suited to early gadget usage. Being a numbers dork I know the bulk and being given carries are both good indicators - easier to hold up and if your team gives you carries as a wide receiver they know you’re talented and just want to get the ball in your hands. Between that and the athletic ability and size that potentially helps in the red zone I feel like he could help in the short-term (jet sweeps, screens, deep shots) and still develop into a pretty ideal complement to Moore. Also less Deebo role but Burks is almost a small tight end at this point - depending on how far he comes along as a blocker we know LaFleur loves his 12 personnel and it’s a little of a stretch but Burks could potentially allow them to play 11 in a way that’s kind of like an 11/12 hybrid. 

It’s very much a high level thought though - you’ve forgotten more about the technical details of the position than I’ll ever know. And the more dangerous Moore continues to look the more a high probability safe bet like Wilson probably makes sense. Last time I took a look at Burks I noticed that even though he can absolutely pluck away from his frame he seems to have a little body catching tendency which isn’t great. Definitely very raw and an imperfect prospect.

[Chrebetfan80]

2 hours ago, derp said:

I think my big beef with edge with that first pick is I’m a little meh on Hutchinson like kdels and this class is overall pretty elite. I just don’t think they miss much by waiting. But I love the idea of adding to the position in the class. If they can address other positions thoroughly in FA it’d be awesome if they could double dip at edge in this class. As you said they do rotate quite a bit, it’s a need, and it’s important. I think the OL makes a little more sense with the first pick for that reason. Realistically the top of this class is weak and I just don’t like picking there. But I like the OL who will be drafted early a tick more relative to the rest of the class than the edges who will be drafted early relative to the rest of that class - if that makes sense. Although they could edge early and double dip.

I can kind of see the Burks-Claypool comparison. Both pretty elite physically and Pittsburgh schemes some stuff for Claypool. I think even though the size is similar they’re built very differently. Few reasons I mentioned Burks for the Deebo role - I don’t think the class has a great fit fit for that either but Deebo is pretty unique. As you said Burks is thick - I think that’s one of Deebo’s more unique traits. Maybe Burks is actually 6’3 and he looks shorter because he’s so thick but I think he’ll come in a tick under. I think to get used on those more gadget-y plays and hold up it helps to be bigger. Other is the way Burks is used at Arkansas. His YAC numbers are impressive, between 8 and 9 I think, and he’s given a good amount of carries - more than most of the rest of the WR class. I think the run after catch ability and carry experience are well suited to early gadget usage. Being a numbers dork I know the bulk and being given carries are both good indicators - easier to hold up and if your team gives you carries as a wide receiver they know you’re talented and just want to get the ball in your hands. Between that and the athletic ability and size that potentially helps in the red zone I feel like he could help in the short-term (jet sweeps, screens, deep shots) and still develop into a pretty ideal complement to Moore. Also less Deebo role but Burks is almost a small tight end at this point - depending on how far he comes along as a blocker we know LaFleur loves his 12 personnel and it’s a little of a stretch but Burks could potentially allow them to play 11 in a way that’s kind of like an 11/12 hybrid. 

It’s very much a high level thought though - you’ve forgotten more about the technical details of the position than I’ll ever know. And the more dangerous Moore continues to look the more a high probability safe bet like Wilson probably makes sense. Last time I took a look at Burks I noticed that even though he can absolutely pluck away from his frame he seems to have a little body catching tendency which isn’t great. Definitely very raw and an imperfect prospect.

Great details in the numbers here on Burks.  Like i said I have burks probably as my number 2 in this class so I agree he would be a help to the offense.  I think it just determines where you want to go building the offense.  Bigger WR's or guys that maybe are smaller, but technically really sound.  If you draft burks you have Davis Burks and Mims as your three big dudes.  All 6'3 all over 200 lbs.  If you draft Wilson youre probably a little more balanced with moore being smaller and wilson at 6'0  190.  

So if youre just looking at versatility size wise in your offense it may lead you one way or another.  Also skill wise, while burks definitely is more versatile than a Davis or Mims they do all have similar abilities to go vertical get body positioning and go up for balls.  Burks i probably a better version of the other two right now, but its just something to think about. 

Im fine with either guy honestly. I just like polish more than tools.  Guys like Wilson and Olave are so seasoned and polished as WR's its just something i love. Watch some of that OSU tape from this year and those guys are putting on route running clinics. its impressive. 

 

I think i agree with you too on the OL over edge.  Thibs seems to be the clear cut favorite at the top of the class (i feel like he's had a down year though). it just becomes where do you go if you have the 2nd pick?  Neal, Linderbaum?  What OL is the pick there?  I think realistically youd want to trade out of 2 to move down a little where everything seems to fit a little cleaner. 

[Chrebetfan80]

ive talked alot about Wilson and last year i loved Olave.  

Watch OSU this year.  Its WR porn.  

Route running is spectacular.  I get they havent played many top defenses so you can argue if these guys are wide open against better pass defenses. Still, route running porn from a coaches perspective. 

[sec101row23]

22 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Great details in the numbers here on Burks.  Like i said I have burks probably as my number 2 in this class so I agree he would be a help to the offense.  I think it just determines where you want to go building the offense.  Bigger WR's or guys that maybe are smaller, but technically really sound.  If you draft burks you have Davis Burks and Mims as your three big dudes.  All 6'3 all over 200 lbs.  If you draft Wilson youre probably a little more balanced with moore being smaller and wilson at 6'0  190.  

So if youre just looking at versatility size wise in your offense it may lead you one way or another.  Also skill wise, while burks definitely is more versatile than a Davis or Mims they do all have similar abilities to go vertical get body positioning and go up for balls.  Burks i probably a better version of the other two right now, but its just something to think about. 

Im fine with either guy honestly. I just like polish more than tools.  Guys like Wilson and Olave are so seasoned and polished as WR's its just something i love. Watch some of that OSU tape from this year and those guys are putting on route running clinics. its impressive. 

 

I think i agree with you too on the OL over edge.  Thibs seems to be the clear cut favorite at the top of the class (i feel like he's had a down year though). it just becomes where do you go if you have the 2nd pick?  Neal, Linderbaum?  What OL is the pick there?  I think realistically youd want to trade out of 2 to move down a little where everything seems to fit a little cleaner. 

That’s why I think this staff needs to use these last 7 games to figure out if Mims is going to be part of this WR group going forward.  They need to give him a legit chance to show what he can do.  Thus far it seems like he’s not going to be part of the future of this offense.  Like you said, IF Mims has a role here then I think it makes sense to look at Wilson.   Either way, they need to incorporate some receivers with contested catch ability, either with a major upgrade at TE or a receiver like Burks.   
 

This is a bad draft to have two top 10 or so picks, it’s just not a great group of prospects.   

[GreenFish]

Deuce Vaughn from K State is a problem for defenses. First time I've watched him play but he looks really good. Just a sophomore (so he likely comes out in the 2023 draft) and a RB which is not really a need. Just wanted to put his name out there.

[sec101row23]

 

[sec101row23]

Good story about David Ojabo.   He went to high school at Blair Academy here in Northern New Jersey.  If you’re from the area you’re probably familiar with the school.  A good kid with massive potential upside as an edge rusher.  
 

 

[derp]

I like Ojabo a lot as a prospect. I don't know where he goes but more interesting to me as a potential draft pick than Hutchinson or Karlaftis. Particularly as someone who's likely to be a rotational guy early, give me pass rushing upside over anything else.

Part of why I'm meh with edge with one of the first two picks, especially the first one. No clue how high Ojabo rises though. We'll have a better feel for these guys as we get their physical tools. 

I also think with the pretty clear willingness to play smaller guys in certain situations and running heavy rotations, a Nik Bonitto or Myjai Sanders could make a pretty big impact as a rotational guy if they were to wait to day two. This class is just so deep there's a lot they can do there. 

There are interesting guys in this class who fit the backup JFM role well too - Travon Walker, Cameron Thomas, Logan Hall.

Other random thought of the day - Jalen Pitre is probably too small for a linebacker conversion even though he's used that way at points but seems like he fits how Saleh wants guys to play.

[kdels62]

29 minutes ago, derp said:

I like Ojabo a lot as a prospect. I don't know where he goes but more interesting to me as a potential draft pick than Hutchinson or Karlaftis. Particularly as someone who's likely to be a rotational guy early, give me pass rushing upside over anything else.

Part of why I'm meh with edge with one of the first two picks, especially the first one. No clue how high Ojabo rises though. We'll have a better feel for these guys as we get their physical tools. 

I also think with the pretty clear willingness to play smaller guys in certain situations and running heavy rotations, a Nik Bonitto or Myjai Sanders could make a pretty big impact as a rotational guy if they were to wait to day two. This class is just so deep there's a lot they can do there. 

There are interesting guys in this class who fit the backup JFM role well too - Travon Walker, Cameron Thomas, Logan Hall.

Other random thought of the day - Jalen Pitre is probably too small for a linebacker conversion even though he's used that way at points but seems like he fits how Saleh wants guys to play.

Pitre has to show he can transition full time to safety. He’s not gonna be able to be a LB but if he can cover space and be as active moving forward as he is, he’ll carve out a role in the NFL. I can’t look at him and feel that he projects well to the NFL game.

[derp]

11 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Pitre has to show he can transition full time to safety. He’s not gonna be able to be a LB but if he can cover space and be as active moving forward as he is, he’ll carve out a role in the NFL. I can’t look at him and feel that he projects well to the NFL game.

Yeah definitely agreed. Was interesting to watch him for a bit and see what I think Saleh wants in his linebackers, even if they're small, but I think he's still too small.

[kdels62]

Hutchinson’s first 2 sacks were nothing special. The first was that inside step in space that he hits against less athletic tackles and the second was a clean up effort off of Ojabo’s pressure. 

That 3rd sack tho was bend and explosion and then enough quickness and flexibility to close the space. He even used a club move to get to the outside of the tackle. That was the first time I felt excitement about Hutchinson’s next level pass rush potential. His work in the run game needs a lot of development but who cares about that. 

Ojabo is also very legitimately a top end pass rusher. 

[derp]

14 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Hutchinson’s first 2 sacks were nothing special. The first was that inside step in space that he hits against less athletic tackles and the second was a clean up effort off of Ojabo’s pressure. 

That 3rd sack tho was bend and explosion and then enough quickness and flexibility to close the space. He even used a club move to get to the outside of the tackle. That was the first time I felt excitement about Hutchinson’s next level pass rush potential. His work in the run game needs a lot of development but who cares about that. 

Ojabo is also very legitimately a top end pass rusher. 

I wonder if he starts getting mocked to Detroit more with that production and being local.

The third sack was definitely nice.

[sec101row23]

 

[BCJet]

19 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Hutchinson’s first 2 sacks were nothing special. The first was that inside step in space that he hits against less athletic tackles and the second was a clean up effort off of Ojabo’s pressure. 

That 3rd sack tho was bend and explosion and then enough quickness and flexibility to close the space. He even used a club move to get to the outside of the tackle. That was the first time I felt excitement about Hutchinson’s next level pass rush potential. His work in the run game needs a lot of development but who cares about that. 

Ojabo is also very legitimately a top end pass rusher. 

This is a bigger conversation for the team in the offseason, and I know both JD and Saleh had no problem stockpiling DL in their previous stops, but how does Hutchinson fit in schematically?  Assuming we get Lawson back at 80% of what he was and JFM just signed a deal that will keep him here at minimum through 2022, would Hutchinson play in a rotational role with Lawson?

He (and Thibdeaux) are both big and talented enough to be every down 4-3 DEs, and clearly its a position you take and figure out later, but still curious how people see him fitting.

[derp]

Not intended to be reactionary - the Jets only have Zach Wilson signed at quarterback next year. Even if they bring back one vet, teams frequently carry three. Any mid-round prospects who might be interesting to develop as backups or who we'd like to watch in case of an injury?

Thinking maybe one of the fourth round picks, third seems a little rich. Presumably Corral, Howell, Ridder, Willis, and Pickett will be long gone by then. I actually bet a couple of those guys go to good teams and develop into solid pros - this feels like a QB class that ends up better than it's projected. 

I like some stuff Douglas does and don't like some other stuff he does. Feel like there's a decent chance he wastes a fourth round pick on Rattler. Feels very on brand for him and for the franchise.

Clear needs for the Texans, Steelers, Broncos, Redskins, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, and Lions at least. So those five likely get scooped up in the first couple rounds. Should be fun to see how it shuffles out. 

[derp]

6 hours ago, BCJet said:

This is a bigger conversation for the team in the offseason, and I know both JD and Saleh had no problem stockpiling DL in their previous stops, but how does Hutchinson fit in schematically?  Assuming we get Lawson back at 80% of what he was and JFM just signed a deal that will keep him here at minimum through 2022, would Hutchinson play in a rotational role with Lawson?

He (and Thibdeaux) are both big and talented enough to be every down 4-3 DEs, and clearly its a position you take and figure out later, but still curious how people see him fitting.

I think if you're taking a guy in the top five you're expecting he outperforms Lawson - who's only signed for two more years anyway and obviously coming off a serious injury. A really important position obviously as you said, and the Jets do rotate guys a bunch. But it's a good question. I do think it's a take him and figure it out later situation but it's certainly not clean. Neither is tackle. 

Honestly the only clean positions for the Jets to take are non-premium spots. Right guard, off-ball linebacker, safety, tight end. Some of those positions have guys who will be in play top ten but most don't. I think it's very much just take the best guy at an important position and figure it out. Not like they have long-term answers at lots of spots anyway.

[kdels62]

4 hours ago, derp said:

Not intended to be reactionary - the Jets only have Zach Wilson signed at quarterback next year. Even if they bring back one vet, teams frequently carry three. Any mid-round prospects who might be interesting to develop as backups or who we'd like to watch in case of an injury?

Thinking maybe one of the fourth round picks, third seems a little rich. Presumably Corral, Howell, Ridder, Willis, and Pickett will be long gone by then. I actually bet a couple of those guys go to good teams and develop into solid pros - this feels like a QB class that ends up better than it's projected. 

I like some stuff Douglas does and don't like some other stuff he does. Feel like there's a decent chance he wastes a fourth round pick on Rattler. Feels very on brand for him and for the franchise.

Clear needs for the Texans, Steelers, Broncos, Redskins, Saints, Panthers, Falcons, and Lions at least. So those five likely get scooped up in the first couple rounds. Should be fun to see how it shuffles out. 

Carson Strong, Grayson McCall, Sam Hartman

I like Hartman. I’d be fine burning a 4th or 5th rounder on a QB.

[Barton]

Kayvon from Oregon can bend around the tackle without losing speed. Cant teach that. Looks really explosive.

Aidan gets the job done at michigan but he doesnt jump off the screen. Nowhere near the athlete that Nick Bosa is. Maybe not even Joey Bosa. 

[Chrebetfan80]

On 11/26/2021 at 1:43 PM, sec101row23 said:

That’s why I think this staff needs to use these last 7 games to figure out if Mims is going to be part of this WR group going forward.  They need to give him a legit chance to show what he can do.  Thus far it seems like he’s not going to be part of the future of this offense.  Like you said, IF Mims has a role here then I think it makes sense to look at Wilson.   Either way, they need to incorporate some receivers with contested catch ability, either with a major upgrade at TE or a receiver like Burks.   
 

This is a bad draft to have two top 10 or so picks, it’s just not a great group of prospects.   

Agreed, not a great time to have two top 10s but perhaps there will be some late risers that people get excited about and we can steal a trade down or two. 

This is probably the key point in whether to go burks or wilson.  IS mims a part of this team?  I dont know right now, i know they really like him but he's had a real issue staying available.  He was getting a lot more playing time, then bam covid protocol.  He may just be a guy thats going to take a year or two to come on.  

This is going to sound silly, but the importance of having great hands away from the body is going to be big in this offense.  Watching the game, the one thing I notice when zach really lets it rip is guys are having a hard time grabbing it.  Im not sure if they're just surprised, or its too far out in front but its noticable that his fast ball is eating guys up a little bit.  This I think is in his head a little and what im seeing is him short arm throws which is why they're fluttering or low on a lot of passes. he's trying to push completions. Grabbings with excellent strong hands is going to make a big difference.  

[kdels62]

John Michael Schmitz, Center, Minnesota: 

The unfortunate part of being a center in this draft class is that you end up being compared to Tyler Linderbaum. Schmitz is bigger than Linderbaum and is listed at 320lbs and he looks like a cabbage patch kid. The kid has a good anchor isn’t easily moved. Minnesota doesn’t ask him to pull or lead outside runs but they do run in the A gaps plenty. While Linderbaum is a zone blocking dream, Schmitz is gap blocker  who seals the inside effectively and creates lanes by planting himself on the inside of defenders. He’s got a good initial punch and he’s not a bad player at the second level. The problem is that for all of his size he is not a people mover. He holds his position and seals off well but the defender is not gonna get moved. He plays a little high and loses leverage, never getting the drive forward that Linderbaum does. He also doesn’t hold blocks well, his hands just don’t seem strong enough to remain engaged at the point of contact. I think he’s a nice player who might move to guard. 3rd/ 4th round pick in my eyes.

To recap my thoughts on the Centers in this draft so far.

Tyler Linderbaum- Top 10 pick - Comp: Jason Kelce 

Jarret Patterson - 2nd/ 3rd Rounder

Dohnovan West - 3rd/ 4th Rounder 

John Michael Schmitz - 3rd/4th Round

[kdels62]

I know all of this just propaganda but this is the guy that Jets fan dreams are made of. 

He’s gonna fly up draft boards and end up at worst a second rounder when it’s all said and done. Idc pull the trigger JD, make this guy a Jet at all costs.

[Chrebetfan80]

12 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I know all of this just propaganda but this is the guy that Jets fan dreams are made of. 

He’s gonna fly up draft boards and end up at worst a second rounder when it’s all said and done. Idc pull the trigger JD, make this guy a Jet at all costs.

At first, i thought my love for trey mcbride was due to my old school infatuation with Joel Dressen lol but he's the real deal, if we trade down in the first we should be able to afford ourselves flexibility to move around in the second and grab this guy. 

[kdels62]

Max Mitchell- Right Tackle- Louisiana Raging Caguns

He’s PFF’s highest graded tackle in college football. So I checked him out and I came out super impressed. He’s a lean “tackle only” type of player. He’s listed at 6’-6” 297 LB so he has room to fill out his frame but should I don’t know if he should. Super long arms and good balance, he rarely loses the movement battle in the pass game. Uses his hands and arms well and extends his arms to their limit to control pass rushers. The surprising thing for me was his play strength. He drives in the run game and moves defenders. He does struggle a bit getting outside on true pass sets and sometimes he loses leverage and can only stand up defenders rather than moving them. His recovery ability seems to lack a little bit. Evan Neal’s greatest strength is that he doesn’t need to be perfect to win a rep, Max Mitchell almost needs perfection every play. 

He’s gonna be at the senior bowl which should help gauge his relative play strength so I’m very excited. 

Round grade: 2/3 

[Guilhermezmc]

Its a growing theme that Hutchinson is going before Thibodeaux

[kdels62]

Quick OT recap

Charles Cross- Mississippi State- Top 10

Evan Neal - Alabama - Top 15

Ikem Ekwonu- NC State - Round 1

Bernhard Raimann- Central Michigan - Round 1

Darian Kinnard- Kentucky - Round 1/2

Sean Rhyan - UCLA - Round 2

Max Mitchell - Louisiana - Round 2/3

Trevor Penning - Northern Iowa - Round 3

Kellen Diesch - Arizona State - Round 5