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Prospects 2022 and random college ball talk.


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2 hours ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

At first, i thought my love for trey mcbride was due to my old school infatuation with Joel Dressen lol but he's the real deal, if we trade down in the first we should be able to afford ourselves flexibility to move around in the second and grab this guy. 

The Carolina pick could actually be the perfect spot for McBride.   

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3 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Max Mitchell- Right Tackle- Louisiana Raging Caguns

He’s PFF’s highest graded tackle in college football. So I checked him out and I came out super impressed. He’s a lean “tackle only” type of player. He’s listed at 6’-6” 297 LB so he has room to fill out his frame but should I don’t know if he should. Super long arms and good balance, he rarely loses the movement battle in the pass game. Uses his hands and arms well and extends his arms to their limit to control pass rushers. The surprising thing for me was his play strength. He drives in the run game and moves defenders. He does struggle a bit getting outside on true pass sets and sometimes he loses leverage and can only stand up defenders rather than moving them. His recovery ability seems to lack a little bit. Evan Neal’s greatest strength is that he doesn’t need to be perfect to win a rep, Max Mitchell almost needs perfection every play. 

He’s gonna be at the senior bowl which should help gauge his relative play strength so I’m very excited. 

Round grade: 2/3 

Good stuff. I think that’s the sweet spot to draft a tackle. Compete with Fant, maybe play the Moses role, figure out where the guy goes next year.

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On 8/11/2021 at 1:18 PM, Defense Wins Championships said:

FSU Football is finally back.

image.png.bff0524bd10b766e019a1ac43b486a28.png

Not only because we're now loaded in talent again but because 2021's season will be dedicated to honor legendary coach Bobby Bowden. Rest in heaven Champ. And our FSU kids out of the state of Florida are going to wear their emotions on their sleeves, play with 100% heart and absolutely BALL OUT!

If you've never rooted for FSU football before. Please root for us this year. Because it's going to be fun and we'll win the National Championship too. 

bwhaahahahahahahahahahaha what a ******* idiot bwhahahahahahahahahahahaha ******* scum bag.  

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Western Michigan WR Skyy Moore is an interesting one I stumbled upon today. Looks like he's a true junior (technically a redshirt sophomore I guess with the COVID year) originally recruited as a corner. Shorter, 5'10ish, pretty well built, looks to have good speed, broke out as a freshman, some evidence he can catch outside his frame on a quick look. Worth digging into a little. Could be an interesting day two prospect.

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If Saleh likes to play the "Seattle style" defense, I seem to remember that defense's heyday featured 2 very good safeties in Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. With Maye likely leaving, safety will likely be a hole. Do you guys think Hamilton is going to be a target in the top 10. I understand the argument that safety is a non premium position (and the Hamilton to Adams comparisons will likely get old quickly), but I have to imagine Hamilton might be in play (if he is as good as people say, I haven't watched Hamilton play). 

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49 minutes ago, maury77 said:

If Saleh likes to play the "Seattle style" defense, I seem to remember that defense's heyday featured 2 very good safeties in Earl Thomas and Kam Chancellor. With Maye likely leaving, safety will likely be a hole. Do you guys think Hamilton is going to be a target in the top 10. I understand the argument that safety is a non premium position (and the Hamilton to Adams comparisons will likely get old quickly), but I have to imagine Hamilton might be in play (if he is as good as people say, I haven't watched Hamilton play). 

Imagine Jamal but he can cover and also he’s super fast and super long. I don’t buy that a safety would fix the defense but Hamilton has a chance to be special. I really think Jalen Pitre is a nice consolation prize, he’s less of a natural but he’s refined with potential.

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11 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Imagine Jamal but he can cover and also he’s super fast and super long. I don’t buy that a safety would fix the defense but Hamilton has a chance to be special. I really think Jalen Pitre is a nice consolation prize, he’s less of a natural but he’s refined with potential.

I think Derwin James is a better comp for Hamilton.  And while we have a bad history with taking a Safety that high, I think Hamilton could be a real game-changer.  Look at it this way; would you rather have a very good Cornerback or an All-pro Safety.  Because that might be the choice between Hamilton and Stingley.  

I'm not supporting we draft either, as I think we might have better options, but if it came down to those two, I don't think the knee-jerk choice of CB is necessarily the right one.

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It's still early, but the more I look at the top of this coming draft, the more I realize Houston is going to be the fulcrum around which everything hinges.  If they go QB, it drops one more top player down.  That could be the difference in us getting either Hutchinson or Thibodeaux, or getting Karlaftis.  Maybe that's not a huge drop, but it could be.  It also could mean the difference in Neal getting to us.  Or Stingley (or Hamilton) versus not.  I'm assuming one of our picks will be around the 4-6 range, and the other not far behind it (unless something unexpected happens). 

Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there will be a run on QBs early.  Not one of these prospects looks good enough to warrant spending a ransom for a trade-up unless it's just a few slots.  

Having said that, I think the combination of our second first round pick, and the two high second rounders, is going to be where JD makes his money.  I could definitely see him moving around, perhaps moving into two mid-late first round picks.  Names like Devin Lloyd, Linderbaum, Wydermeyer all get interesting in that area.  And they all address big needs.

 

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It's still early, but the more I look at the top of this coming draft, the more I realize Houston is going to be the fulcrum around which everything hinges.  If they go QB, it drops one more top player down.  That could be the difference in us getting either Hutchinson or Thibodeaux, or getting Karlaftis.  Maybe that's not a huge drop, but it could be.  It also could mean the difference in Neal getting to us.  Or Stingley (or Hamilton) versus not.  I'm assuming one of our picks will be around the 4-6 range, and the other not far behind it (unless something unexpected happens). 
Unfortunately, it doesn't look like there will be a run on QBs early.  Not one of these prospects looks good enough to warrant spending a ransom for a trade-up unless it's just a few slots.  
Having said that, I think the combination of our second first round pick, and the two high second rounders, is going to be where JD makes his money.  I could definitely see him moving around, perhaps moving into two mid-late first round picks.  Names like Devin Lloyd, Linderbaum, Wydermeyer all get interesting in that area.  And they all address big needs.
 


Zach Wilson was drafted #2 overall. Never underestimate the pressure of desperation to find a QB combined with a media that pushes and overinflates QB prospects because it directly drives ratings.


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1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I think Derwin James is a better comp for Hamilton.  And while we have a bad history with taking a Safety that high, I think Hamilton could be a real game-changer.  Look at it this way; would you rather have a very good Cornerback or an All-pro Safety.  Because that might be the choice between Hamilton and Stingley.  

I'm not supporting we draft either, as I think we might have better options, but if it came down to those two, I don't think the knee-jerk choice of CB is necessarily the right one.

The joke was that if Jamal was an entirely different player with much more important skills he’d be Kyle Hamilton.

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I think at this point all the Linderbaum talk could be moot.   I don’t see how drafting a center that high is going to move the needle of this franchise enough.   This defense needs players.  Even after free agency there is still going to be a lot of holes.  Need some athletes, going to have to draft them.  

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1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

I think at this point all the Linderbaum talk could be moot.   I don’t see how drafting a center that high is going to move the needle of this franchise enough.   This defense needs players.  Even after free agency there is still going to be a lot of holes.  Need some athletes, going to have to draft them.  

I keep going back and forth on this.  If you have a mediocre QB, which may be Wilson's ceiling, then you can still win if you have an elite OL.  But then, after watching a game like today, yiou could make a strong argument that our 3 biggest needs are all on the defensive side of the ball.  Edge, Safety and LB.  Especially if we an sign a legit TE or 2 in free agency.  Given the way the draft is looking right now, could be a defensive draft round 1, and then add offense on day 2. 

 

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I think the off ball defensive needs can/should likely be addressed in FA or outside the first round. Especially if both picks are top ten.

The defense is running out a bunch of sub replacement level guys but I think that just means it’ll be easier to fill the non premium position holes in FA and make a big impact on the team. Edge makes sense to me early. Linebacker and safety less so.

This defense also looks a lot better with Carl Lawson and two veteran safeties. There’s no serious pocket push and the plan was clearly for the veteran safeties on the back end to help out there young corners and then both safeties got hurt.

Double defense in the first round with an iffy young QB just seems like you’re asking to continue that cycle of top five quarterbacks.

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4 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I think at this point all the Linderbaum talk could be moot.   I don’t see how drafting a center that high is going to move the needle of this franchise enough.   This defense needs players.  Even after free agency there is still going to be a lot of holes.  Need some athletes, going to have to draft them.  

I agree but at other points today I thought it’d be nice to have more than 1 receiver that gets open by himself. And at another point I thought that it’d be nice if our OL could impose its will on teams up the middle for crucial short gains. 

Their OL was killing us and I want that. Being able to run a draw play for 4 yards at will is such a powerful tool.

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I think the big thing is that if you assume an edge in the first round with one of the picks is a given, the roles the offense could use some help at - number one receiver, tackle stability - are ones you kind of need to draft and develop. Safeties and linebackers you can find in FA.

@Lith what are your thoughts on Travon Walker? Dane Brugler has him at 9 or something which is high relative to others. Looks like a freaky athlete.

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I’ve never followed the draft.  I see lots of real pros in this thread.   I’ve been doing lots of mocks but I’m drafting more defense now lol.  
 

Are there any LBs who can play MLB in this scheme?  It demands uncommon speed and coverage skills for a guy big enough to play MLB.  I hope Mosley sticks around a little more than next season,  but it seems a couple years learning would be good.  
 

if trading back is an option it seems the consensus seems to be there that this is a good draft to do it? 
 

Slot seems loaded and set for years.  Who are the outside WRs who go get any ball thrown their way?  

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11 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I agree but at other points today I thought it’d be nice to have more than 1 receiver that gets open by himself. And at another point I thought that it’d be nice if our OL could impose its will on teams up the middle for crucial short gains. 

Their OL was killing us and I want that. Being able to run a draw play for 4 yards at will is such a powerful tool.

Agree about WR.  I actually find that most of my favorite potential first round players all seem to be guys who will go from 16-32.   Lloyd, Burks, London, Gardner, Dean, Ekwonu, Ojabo.  

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18 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

I think at this point all the Linderbaum talk could be moot.   I don’t see how drafting a center that high is going to move the needle of this franchise enough.   This defense needs players.  Even after free agency there is still going to be a lot of holes.  Need some athletes, going to have to draft them.  

This is what utterly disgusts me about the jets this year.   Our D has been serviceable for years and we have just hoisted resources into it.

We finally start building the offense and now this year we are so utterly bad on D with a Decentric head coach that it is back to DL, safeties and ilbs for this draft and we will let a 10 year pro bowler waft by us because we stink so bad on D.

I just hate it.

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On 12/5/2021 at 9:29 PM, derp said:

I think the big thing is that if you assume an edge in the first round with one of the picks is a given, the roles the offense could use some help at - number one receiver, tackle stability - are ones you kind of need to draft and develop. Safeties and linebackers you can find in FA.

@Lith what are your thoughts on Travon Walker? Dane Brugler has him at 9 or something which is high relative to others. Looks like a freaky athlete.

Travon Walker is an interesting prospect.  Never really thought of him as a top 10 type guy.  Plkayed DT for two seassons and then lost weight and moved to edge.  Great athlete who will offer some team tremndous versatility along the DL.  To take him top 10, though, you have to see him as a double digit sack guy, which I am not sure he is.  Should be a really nice player with a long career. 

Early day 2, I could see.  Top 10 seems way too early for me.  Although I do think he will have a great combine.

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

Travon Walker is an interesting prospect.  Never really thought of him as a top 10 type guy.  Plkayed DT for two seassons and then lost weight and moved to edge.  Great athlete who will offer some team tremndous versatility along the DL.  To take him top 10, though, you have to see him as a double digit sack guy, which I am not sure he is.  Should be a really nice player with a long career. 

Early day 2, I could see.  Top 10 seems way too early for me.  Although I do think he will have a great combine.

Makes a ton of sense, I had gotten the day two fit but maybe day one with Georgia hype and that crazy athleticism. The 49ers have drafted a lot of those tweener guys who haven’t had big sack numbers over the years - Arik Armstead, Solomon Thomas, to a lesser extent DeForest Buckner and Javon Kinlaw.

Walker struck me as someone I could see them taking early and fans being annoyed he’s not a double digit sack guy. Very Jets and vibes with what SF has done. 

Does seem to make a lot more sense day two. I know JFM just got extended and plays that big edge role but I could see getting them both on the field and moving them around. Potentially a valuable piece and they could use some depth and athleticism. But again more logical day two given the anticipated sack production.

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8 hours ago, BurntDice said:

What do you guys think of Greg dulcich? He’s been a YAC monster and has been very good at receiving the ball. His blocking is trash tho. Seems to be kind of falling under the radar 

Dulcich is like gonna be an F tight end to start his career. So he should only be used as a pass catcher outside guy while he learns to be a better blocker. Drafting a combo of Dulcich in round 4/5 and Trey McBride or Jeremy Ruckert in round 2 makes for good skill diversity in a TE room.

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59 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Dulcich is like gonna be an F tight end to start his career. So he should only be used as a pass catcher outside guy while he learns to be a better blocker. Drafting a combo of Dulcich in round 4/5 and Trey McBride or Jeremy Ruckert in round 2 makes for good skill diversity in a TE room.

That’s what I was thinking. Pairing him with someone like McBride would be deadly. 2 guys who can open the field and make the d not be able to solely focus on the wrs. 

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On 12/3/2021 at 7:25 PM, kdels62 said:

My conversion to Devin Lloyd Stan is complete

 

 

no body wants to say it... But a Lloyd or Dean upgrade this defense more than any other player probably outside of Hamilton.  A top notch edge is needed for sure, but as a rotational piece wont have the impact an every down player like lloyd or hamilton would have.  The problem is they just play non premium positions. 

If Quincy can develop and Mosley stays solid, you could have a really excellent LB group with LLoyd or Dean then taking over for Mosley in a year or two.  OR they're an upgrade over Quincy and we can rock and roll. 

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