Prospects 2022 and random college ball talk.

[BurntDice]

36 minutes ago, maury77 said:

FWIW, it sounds like the running game led to today’s victory.

Good thing because there weren’t any good wrs or TEs on the field ?

[derp]

2 hours ago, maury77 said:

FWIW, it sounds like the running game led to today’s victory.

I had mentioned my thoughts about building the run game after last year - it was the win over the Rams specifically. This close win over a really bad Jaguars team - 26-21 with the QB averaging under 5 YPA…I don’t think this was the recipe to win football games against 90% of the league. Granted the top three receivers were out.

[maury77]

11 minutes ago, derp said:

I had mentioned my thoughts about building the run game after last year - it was the win over the Rams specifically. This close win over a really bad Jaguars team - 26-21 with the QB averaging under 5 YPA…I don’t think this was the recipe to win football games against 90% of the league. Granted the top three receivers were out.

 I agree Derp, but I'm not sure how much better you know who is going to be even with better weapons. I'm thinking about scheming around him at this stage. 

[derp]

Just now, maury77 said:

 I agree Derp, but I'm not sure how much better you know who is going to be even with better weapons. I'm thinking about scheming around him at this stage. 

I honestly have no clue how he’s going to progress, it’s nice the turnovers have calmed down, but if he’s not going to be better with better weapons then the weapons need to be in place for the next guy.

[kdels62]

I know our defense doesn’t value CBs but Sauce and Bryant are both very legitimate.

[derp]

This isn’t news and I’m still not convinced they really value linebackers but…Nakobe Dean. Wonder if there’s any way he could measure that he’d be in shouting distance even for them to move up from the first second round pick.

[BurntDice]

2 hours ago, derp said:

This isn’t news and I’m still not convinced they really value linebackers but…Nakobe Dean. Wonder if there’s any way he could measure that he’d be in shouting distance even for them to move up from the first second round pick.

How much better do you think Lloyd/dean are than Brandon smith, Chad Muma, and Christian Harris? Enough to trade a 2nd and 3rd for? I’m still not sure. 

[Barry McCockinner]

13 hours ago, derp said:

This isn’t news and I’m still not convinced they really value linebackers but…Nakobe Dean. Wonder if there’s any way he could measure that he’d be in shouting distance even for them to move up from the first second round pick.

They may not have valued LBrs previously but it's become pretty clear they need to add an elite run stopping LB to this defense or they'll continue to get run all over. I'd say that's almost as important as adding speed to the edge. I'd love to see us target Dean somehow.

[derp]

10 hours ago, BurntDice said:

How much better do you think Lloyd/dean are than Brandon smith, Chad Muma, and Christian Harris? Enough to trade a 2nd and 3rd for? I’m still not sure. 

A two and a three would get you into the early 20’s, I was really thinking more of a little jump into the back end of the first but obviously was very nonspecific with my post.

Moving up would of course be different if they’re able to move down before that, too. This draft is such a bad need/value fit situation - I’d certainly prefer moving up a little from the second round pick to taking one of those guys with the Seattle pick which I’ve seen discussed on the main board and I’m sure will continue to be discussed more.

My current read - and I need to dig more - is that Dean is a perfect fit and a pretty safe pick. Lloyd I personally think is a little riskier but still excellent. Big fan of Harris and Muma but don’t think they’re on Dean’s level athletically - that said I think both would meaningfully improve the defense and probably be a more prudent use of draft capital. Muma with the third round pick feels like the need/value/way they prioritize the position sweet spot and athletic small school LB’s mid day two seem to work out well. Smith I think is up there athletically but not in the same spot production wise which I think makes him trickier for a defense that absolutely would benefit from a day one impact linebacker. But again, absolutely need to dig more.

[derp]

35 minutes ago, Barry McCockinner said:

They may not have valued LBrs previously but it's become pretty clear they need to add an elite run stopping LB to this defense or they'll continue to get run all over. I'd say that's almost as important as adding speed to the edge. I'd love to see us target Dean somehow.

I get it but that’s the kind of overreaction fans make and I don’t think good GM’s make. The SF defense made it work without a first round LB, most defenses do - off ball LB isn’t a priority position any more. So I get that there’s a huge hole there but they could easily look at a draft with lots of athletic linebackers and think they find a meaningful impact player in the third round and that’s a serious investment at the position for them.

And they’re trying to develop a young QB. I think this draft is different if Wilson came out his year like 2020 Justin Herbert. Until they’ve got a good situation for the young QB I think there’s a chance the back seven of the defense continues to get patchwork solutions. Think they’ll always be opportunistic on the front four.

[BurntDice]

43 minutes ago, derp said:

A two and a three would get you into the early 20’s, I was really thinking more of a little jump into the back end of the first but obviously was very nonspecific with my post.

Moving up would of course be different if they’re able to move down before that, too. This draft is such a bad need/value fit situation - I’d certainly prefer moving up a little from the second round pick to taking one of those guys with the Seattle pick which I’ve seen discussed on the main board and I’m sure will continue to be discussed more.

My current read - and I need to dig more - is that Dean is a perfect fit and a pretty safe pick. Lloyd I personally think is a little riskier but still excellent. Big fan of Harris and Muma but don’t think they’re on Dean’s level athletically - that said I think both would meaningfully improve the defense and probably be a more prudent use of draft capital. Muma with the third round pick feels like the need/value/way they prioritize the position sweet spot and athletic small school LB’s mid day two seem to work out well. Smith I think is up there athletically but not in the same spot production wise which I think makes him trickier for a defense that absolutely would benefit from a day one impact linebacker. But again, absolutely need to dig more.

I completely agree with you. If the team didn’t have so many holes I’d be 100% fine moving up back into the first. Dean is definitely better than the guys mentioned, he showcased that yesterday. He’s also just starting to touch his potential with his limited snap count overall. I just haven’t dug into the 3 guys I mentioned a ton yet, but what I have seems like they also have fairly high potential. Everything I’ve read/watched from muma sounds like he’s a JD guy to a t. Leader, team captain, smart, gives high effort etc. if I had to bet on one of the guys being drafted by the jets it would be Muma. 

[derp]

1 hour ago, BurntDice said:

I completely agree with you. If the team didn’t have so many holes I’d be 100% fine moving up back into the first. Dean is definitely better than the guys mentioned, he showcased that yesterday. He’s also just starting to touch his potential with his limited snap count overall. I just haven’t dug into the 3 guys I mentioned a ton yet, but what I have seems like they also have fairly high potential. Everything I’ve read/watched from muma sounds like he’s a JD guy to a t. Leader, team captain, smart, gives high effort etc. if I had to bet on one of the guys being drafted by the jets it would be Muma. 

Yeah I agree, I haven’t actually done it in a mock when I’ve been playing around yet but Muma in the third seems like a nice need-value-fit mesh. Would make a ton of sense to me.

[derp]

2 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

They may not have valued LBrs previously but it's become pretty clear they need to add an elite run stopping LB to this defense or they'll continue to get run all over. I'd say that's almost as important as adding speed to the edge. I'd love to see us target Dean somehow.

Also for what it’d worth and to completely contradict myself (but really just more where I was saying we don’t know what they’ll do) Baltimore where Douglas got his start has valued linebackers and so I could see them putting their heads together and saying one guy makes a huge impact long term. It’s not what I think is most likely but I wouldn’t take it off the table.

[BurntDice]

After yesterdays games I believe the odds of Neal going #1 to Jax have increased. He was lights out yet again, while hutch disappointed.  He has been great this season and the jags have a very weak ol and their starting LT cam Robinson is a FA. What do you guys think?

[Barry McCockinner]

 

 

 

[BCJet]

22 hours ago, derp said:

A two and a three would get you into the early 20’s, I was really thinking more of a little jump into the back end of the first but obviously was very nonspecific with my post.

Moving up would of course be different if they’re able to move down before that, too. This draft is such a bad need/value fit situation - I’d certainly prefer moving up a little from the second round pick to taking one of those guys with the Seattle pick which I’ve seen discussed on the main board and I’m sure will continue to be discussed more.

My current read - and I need to dig more - is that Dean is a perfect fit and a pretty safe pick. Lloyd I personally think is a little riskier but still excellent. Big fan of Harris and Muma but don’t think they’re on Dean’s level athletically - that said I think both would meaningfully improve the defense and probably be a more prudent use of draft capital. Muma with the third round pick feels like the need/value/way they prioritize the position sweet spot and athletic small school LB’s mid day two seem to work out well. Smith I think is up there athletically but not in the same spot production wise which I think makes him trickier for a defense that absolutely would benefit from a day one impact linebacker. But again, absolutely need to dig more.

Can you elaborate on why you think this is a bad "need/value fit" draft because I actually think the exact opposite.

We dont need a QB and this isnt a QB draft.

We need edge, TE, safety and off-ball LB.  

There is an elite safety and multiple 2nd/3rd roung guys.  We need a TE and its a deep class where its possible to even take 2.  

There are 2 elite off-ball LBs in Dean and Lloyd and then the guys you mentioned (who I dont know much about). 

The edge class has 3 top 10 guys in Thibs, Hutchinson and Karlafitis

Doesnt that all match up pretty well for what the Jets need especially given that we have 4 top 40 picks and dont need to trade up?

[derp]

53 minutes ago, BCJet said:

Can you elaborate on why you think this is a bad "need/value fit" draft because I actually think the exact opposite.

We dont need a QB and this isnt a QB draft.

We need edge, TE, safety and off-ball LB.  

There is an elite safety and multiple 2nd/3rd roung guys.  We need a TE and its a deep class where its possible to even take 2.  

There are 2 elite off-ball LBs in Dean and Lloyd and then the guys you mentioned (who I dont know much about). 

The edge class has 3 top 10 guys in Thibs, Hutchinson and Karlafitis

Doesnt that all match up pretty well for what the Jets need especially given that we have 4 top 40 picks and dont need to trade up?

First round. Real chance Thibodeaux and Hutchison are off the board. Don’t think Karlaftis is a legitimate top ten edge guy. So I think the two picks in the top ten are caught between edge tiers. Maybe Ojabo cements himself up there.

Biggest needs are non-premium positions that you wouldn’t normally take in the top ten and/or don’t have prospects that are clear cut prospects to take at 4/6 where they’re picking right now - safety and off ball LB non premium and while Hamilton is elite I’m not sure Dean/Lloyd are in that elite tier, edge I think is caught between tiers unless someone rises, 4/6 early for a WR in this class unless somebody rises, iOL non premium, TE non premium and definitively no top ten prospect…

The picks at 4 and 6 are pretty much in no man’s land to the point that you can pretty easily justify one if things fall right but it’ll be tough to have traditional need/value fits with both those picks and there’s a chance it’ll be neither.

[Paradis]

 

[RedBeardedSavage]

40 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

 

But ehh, whatabout Jermaine Johnson?

[RedBeardedSavage]

What does everyone think about Damone Clark LB LSU?

[BurntDice]

55 minutes ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

What does everyone think about Damone Clark LB LSU?

He’s a high upside guy that I wouldn’t mind later in the draft. He’s fast, explosive, and strong. He’s not the best tackler or in coverage. He sometimes gets lost in coverage which isn’t great. Being a backup for a year or 2 would help him a lot. I haven’t watched a lot on him specifically, but watched a decent amount of lsu the past couple years. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

2 hours ago, BurntDice said:

He’s a high upside guy that I wouldn’t mind later in the draft. He’s fast, explosive, and strong. He’s not the best tackler or in coverage. He sometimes gets lost in coverage which isn’t great. Being a backup for a year or 2 would help him a lot. I haven’t watched a lot on him specifically, but watched a decent amount of lsu the past couple years. 

Good insights. I saw video saying they expect him to blow up the combine and rise during the pre-draft process.

Someone to keep an eye on. 

[BurntDice]

1 hour ago, RedBeardedSavage said:

Good insights. I saw video saying they expect him to blow up the combine and rise during the pre-draft process.

Someone to keep an eye on. 

Yea he’s definitely very athletic and should test well 

[Marshmello]

Mel Kiper talking about the draft with Rich Cimini.  Starts around the 9:00 minute mark.

 

 

[BurntDice]

The Draft Network has 3 QBs going in the top 10 in their latest mock. I’ve been convinced for months that they will keep rising like they always do. This is going to be a major help with Thib/Hutch falling and a team wanted to trade up for either pick. 

[sec101row23]

Nick Bawden has been pretty good at FB so far, but Hayward seems like a nice upgrade.  
 

 

[derp]

18 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Nick Bawden has been pretty good at FB so far, but Hayward seems like a nice upgrade.  
 

 

Well he’ll end up in all my mock drafts. Looks like he’s Cam’s brother too?

[Barry McCockinner]

54 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Nick Bawden has been pretty good at FB so far, but Hayward seems like a nice upgrade.  
 

 

is this our Juszczyk? That's Iron Head Hayward's son. His brother plays for the Steelers.

edit: hmm - did he switch to TE?

[Barton]

Anyone heard of this edge rusher from san diego state, Cameron Thomas? 11.5 sacks this year. Productive previous 2 years, as well. Apparently is rising up the boards. 

[maury77]

22 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

is this our Juszczyk? That's Iron Head Hayward's son. His brother plays for the Steelers.

edit: hmm - did he switch to TE?

You can tell we are old because we first identified him as Ironhead's son instead of Cam's brother

[kdels62]

1 hour ago, Barton said:

Anyone heard of this edge rusher from san diego state, Cameron Thomas? 11.5 sacks this year. Productive previous 2 years, as well. Apparently is rising up the boards. 

Former DT, impressively strong and not unathletic. He played edge this year and was great. Didn’t win on the outside a lot but has great hand usage to go along with surprising quicks. His testing will be everything and tell us if he can be scheme versatile like JJ Watt or if he’s gonna settle into putting on weight and being a 3/4 end. 

[RedBeardedSavage]

28 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Former DT, impressively strong and not unathletic. He played edge this year and was great. Didn’t win on the outside a lot but has great hand usage to go along with surprising quicks. His testing will be everything and tell us if he can be scheme versatile like JJ Watt or if he’s gonna settle into putting on weight and being a 3/4 end. 

Always appreciate your insights. 

Views on Jermaine Johnson from FSU? How high can he go with a good combine? 

[derp]

32 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Former DT, impressively strong and not unathletic. He played edge this year and was great. Didn’t win on the outside a lot but has great hand usage to go along with surprising quicks. His testing will be everything and tell us if he can be scheme versatile like JJ Watt or if he’s gonna settle into putting on weight and being a 3/4 end. 

Build too, I’m trying to think of others on the field but Aldon Smith comes to mind - sometimes the guys who primarily win inside in college develop that good hand usage and it eventually translates to winning outside at the pro level. Smith didn’t test great but good length.

Definitely an interesting prospect. Look forward to testing coming back for these guys.

[sec101row23]

Check out this kid today in the FCS championship game. He’s been fun to watch this year.  
 

 

Good news, he’s going to be at the Senior Bowl as well.  
 

 

[BurntDice]

Brugler is saying that karlaftis isn’t liked nearly as much by teams as he is by fans. 2nd round though seems kind of low 

 

he’s also very high on Wilson