Prospects 2022 and random college ball talk.

[JustInFudge]

1 minute ago, kdels62 said:

Yes. I have him and Wilson as my top guys with both of them as top 10 players in this draft, although I only consider Gardner and Hutchinson as true top 10 players.  Ideally, I'd prefer a trade back before a selection but all things being equal I'd be fine with London at 10. 

As a prospect, I've been trying to figure out why I like London even though at first glance his tape is a slower version of Mims's tape. 

Right on.  I could live with Wilson, I love his game.  London, I'm scared.

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, derp said:

He hasn't truly produced big plays and it's hard to tell how much of that is scheme/QB play at USC and how much is his lack of explosiveness. I don't think it's a requisite but I also think if NFL level corners know a guy can't beat them for a big play it's going to make getting separation on shorter stuff much more difficult. They can sit on back shoulder stuff on the sideline without worrying about him getting past them, for example, and then that separation starts to get a little harder to come by. That'd be my concern.

He does have a really nice feel in short to intermediate areas but I think there needs to be some degree of deep speed to sell that at the professional level or outstanding foot quickness that I'm just not sure he can have being as tall as he is. Wish he'd test.

I counter that he got open deep plenty, but his QB sucked. Off the top of my head he had yards of separation against UCLA and Notre Dame that would've been huge  if his QB could lead him up field. 

I don't think that London is going to a big play threat every play but I think he could be a guy that kills you on slants, screens, outs and comeback routes for 2 quarters before catching you off balance for a big play. I also think his route running is only behind Olave/ Wilson in the draft class and that's with London being a 2 sport athlete until last year. 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

3 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I counter that he got open deep plenty, but his QB sucked. Off the top of my head he had yards of separation against UCLA and Notre Dame that would've been huge  if his QB could lead him up field. 

I don't think that London is going to a big play threat every play but I think he could be a guy that kills you on slants, screens, outs and comeback routes for 2 quarters before catching you off balance for a big play. I also think his route running is only behind Olave/ Wilson in the draft class and that's with London being a 2 sport athlete until last year. 

I also don't now if you need him to be the deep guy in your offense. Corey Davis is only signed through next year and if needed could be cut with relatively low dead money if they want a different option for his role in the offense. Could kick the deep threat guy until next year, work a trade, or just take a flier on someone like Alec Pierce if he makes it to day 3 or something if you just want a vertical threat to develop into an actual WR.

[maury77]

54 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I took the easy route instead of getting the source itself but these are the numbers. The thing to note is that Drake London's game extends beyond being a contested catch guy. He excelled at creating room through route running and physical domination. Looking at the games he's forced into contested catches by how bad Slovis is at playing QB. 

It's funny because I hate contested catch guys but I'm smitten with London. I didn't like Mims when he came out because his film didn't match the testing numbers. What I see with London is subtly that makes him successful in ways that aren't so obvious. I like to go back to his Notre Dame game and see how he won at every level. He found soft spots in zone, did subtle double moves, used his frame to post up defenders and he used route running to make space on in breaking routes. It's all there and it feels genuine. I'm trying to find where he's functionally deficient and I can't find it. 

re London, I think he is excellent at finding soft spots in zones. He does run good routes, but everything is one speed. That works at the college level, but it is going to be a lot harder in the pros where the CBs are going to be better athletes and won't have to give him the same cushions he was seeing at USC. 

[derp]

28 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I counter that he got open deep plenty, but his QB sucked. Off the top of my head he had yards of separation against UCLA and Notre Dame that would've been huge  if his QB could lead him up field. 

I don't think that London is going to a big play threat every play but I think he could be a guy that kills you on slants, screens, outs and comeback routes for 2 quarters before catching you off balance for a big play. I also think his route running is only behind Olave/ Wilson in the draft class and that's with London being a 2 sport athlete until last year. 

I'm not saying you're wrong but I genuinely didn't see downfield separation from him against man. Getting passed off in zones, finding soft spots between the corner and safety. There was the one big play that got hit against ND but I think the safety had an angle over the top. I also didn't watch his all 22 though.

Maybe it happened on occasion but I don't think "plenty" is accurate, at least not unless there's a lot in the all 22 that I'm missing. 

It is at the very least not straightforward to the point that testing would be helpful for him. In my opinion.

There could absolutely be something to unpack if he trains differently as I've said a couple times.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Kingsley Enagbare with bad agility numbers for edge at his pro day. 7.42 three cone and 4.4 shuttle.  The only positive test he had was his vert, otherwise I would avoid him since he reads as an athletic risk.

Wouldn't also touch Tre Williams. Not only is he 29, but poor relative athleticism as well.

@derp's boy bellinger improved at the pro day. Wonder how high his stock actually goes.

Food for thought: Kevin Austin with impressive testing numbers, but with only one year of production and I don't personally see him playing at the level of his athleticism. Where do you guys think he goes?

 

 

[kdels62]

23 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Kingsley Enagbare with bad agility numbers for edge at his pro day. 7.42 three cone and 4.4 shuttle.  The only positive test he had was his vert, otherwise I would avoid him since he reads as an athletic risk.

Wouldn't also touch Tre Williams. Not only is he 29, but poor relative athleticism as well.

@derp's boy bellinger improved at the pro day. Wonder how high his stock actually goes.

Food for thought: Kevin Austin with impressive testing numbers, but with only one year of production and I don't personally see him playing at the level of his athleticism. Where do you guys think he goes?

 

 

Kingsley Enagbare is gonna have to gain some weight and play as a 3-tech. This edge class overall is vastly overrated.

[kdels62]

Here’s a shocker. Obviously Pro Day numbers are inflated but even a 4.73 (I add .05 to every pro day number) would have been good for Kolar. Dude can’t block and was embarrassed at the senior bowl but maybe he’ll land somewhere as an F-TE.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

2 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Here’s a shocker. Obviously Pro Day numbers are inflated but even a 4.73 (I add .05 to every pro day number) would have been good for Kolar. Dude can’t block and was embarrassed at the senior bowl but maybe he’ll land somewhere as an F-TE.

That's surprising as heck. He looks like he's wading through Jello on the field so color me shocked esp. with a sub 7 3-cone. If you had told me 3 months ago that Kolar would show up athletically and Wydermyer has the athletic metrics of an YMCA athlete I would have said you were crazy.

[derp]

Agree, I didn’t see Kolar running like that. He’d be a more appealing prospect if he could block but probably has value to some team as a field stretcher and red zone weapon. I thought he had decent hands at least.

Still think as @Jets Voice of Reason plugged for me above Bellinger goes higher than expected. Good blockers sneak up draft boards anyway and he’s got some of the best tools in the class too.

[kdels62]

 

The guy is 45 years old but these are decent numbers for a depth DE. 

[kdels62]

Nagy then said all 32 teams are in attendance. It then also came out that Gardner wasn’t going to any drills. The Jets had looks at Bryant, Pierce, Beavers, Sanders, Ford at the senior bowl and interviewed Sauce at the combine so it makes sense that they don’t have a contingent at this pro day. 

[kdels62]

Crazy how much these guys push their bodies beyond their natural weight to do what they do. Sanders in round 3 would be a steal.

[nycdan]

12 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Nagy then said all 32 teams are in attendance. It then also came out that Gardner wasn’t going to any drills. The Jets had looks at Bryant, Pierce, Beavers, Sanders, Ford at the senior bowl and interviewed Sauce at the combine so it makes sense that they don’t have a contingent at this pro day. 

ATL sent their entire coaching staff apparently.  Makes me wonder if they are really targeting Gardner.  If so, could they be the magical trade-down partner at #4 we all want?  I was thinking they might need to move up for Willis but after Mariota, it seems they are waiting for next year. This could work as well.  Yeah, I'm dreaming out loud...

#8 + #43 + 2023 2nd or something like that would be interesting.  

[derp]

18 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Nagy then said all 32 teams are in attendance. It then also came out that Gardner wasn’t going to any drills. The Jets had looks at Bryant, Pierce, Beavers, Sanders, Ford at the senior bowl and interviewed Sauce at the combine so it makes sense that they don’t have a contingent at this pro day. 

I see them under DB? Sanders would absolutely be a steal in the third.

[Chrebetfan80]

On 3/22/2022 at 3:44 PM, kdels62 said:

I counter that he got open deep plenty, but his QB sucked. Off the top of my head he had yards of separation against UCLA and Notre Dame that would've been huge  if his QB could lead him up field. 

I don't think that London is going to a big play threat every play but I think he could be a guy that kills you on slants, screens, outs and comeback routes for 2 quarters before catching you off balance for a big play. I also think his route running is only behind Olave/ Wilson in the draft class and that's with London being a 2 sport athlete until last year. 

his break points need work, but realistically the way he has a feel for setting up DB's and getting body position on defenders is special.  He has a really natural feel for a nuance of the game a lot of guys struggle with coming out.  Thats what leads me to believe he will be able to contribute right away. 

[Chrebetfan80]

9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

ATL sent their entire coaching staff apparently.  Makes me wonder if they are really targeting Gardner.  If so, could they be the magical trade-down partner at #4 we all want?  I was thinking they might need to move up for Willis but after Mariota, it seems they are waiting for next year. This could work as well.  Yeah, I'm dreaming out loud...

#8 + #43 + 2023 2nd or something like that would be interesting.  

Tough to say, Mariota removes the immediate need, but I do think they want to draft someone to groom behind mariota for a year or two.  These QB prospects are good guys to at least draft and sit for a year if you can and hopefully catch something.  A lot of teams are mortgaging for next year with Young and Stroud probably coming out. 

[kdels62]

59 minutes ago, derp said:

I see them under DB? Sanders would absolutely be a steal in the third.

I'd imagine sending the GM or HC to the pro day would be a better indicator that they want to use a top 10 pick on Gardner. 

 

[kdels62]

 

Dotson and Brandon Smith probably since they already got looks at Luketa and Ebeketie

[derp]

10 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I'd imagine sending the GM or HC to the pro day would be a better indicator that they want to use a top 10 pick on Gardner. 

 

Got it, but if he wasn’t doing anything then they probably know what they need to know.

[Jets Voice of Reason]

Just noticed from yesterday that Ruckert didn't participate at the pro day. Wonder where he ends up going because the lack of touches and lack of combine/pro day from him might make him drop.

[Chrebetfan80]

8 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Just noticed from yesterday that Ruckert didn't participate at the pro day. Wonder where he ends up going because the lack of touches and lack of combine/pro day from him might make him drop.

i hope it does. That would help us a lot 

[Paradis]

2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Here’s a shocker. Obviously Pro Day numbers are inflated but even a 4.73 (I add .05 to every pro day number) would have been good for Kolar. Dude can’t block and was embarrassed at the senior bowl but maybe he’ll land somewhere as an F-TE.

he's a "floater"

Wouldn't even bother, personally 

 

[Paradis]

19 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

Just noticed from yesterday that Ruckert didn't participate at the pro day. Wonder where he ends up going because the lack of touches and lack of combine/pro day from him might make him drop.

Duh, he wanted to make sure he fell enough for the Jets in R3

[Jets Voice of Reason]

22 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Duh, he wanted to make sure he fell enough for the Jets in R3

I expect the same zoom reaction that gets passed here when that happens.

[kdels62]

My goodness. Dark horse to be a second round pick for us. He was apparently very good at the senior bowl and his leadership/ athleticism/ production combo makes him super appealing.

[kdels62]

Would they draft Gardner in round 1, Beavers in round 2, Sanders in round 3? 

[Paradis]

16 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I expect the same zoom reaction that gets passed here when that happens.

My soul would leave my body momentarily.  

[Jets Voice of Reason]

8 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

My goodness. Dark horse to be a second round pick for us. He was apparently very good at the senior bowl and his leadership/ athleticism/ production combo makes him super appealing.

I feel like linebacker is turning out to be what edge was supposed to be. Filled with super athletic prospects throughout the draft.

[Paradis]

Cincinnati this and Cincinnati that -- meanwhile the real story down Charlottesville

hmmm how do i put this in a way that makes sense to you guys...

 

[Paradis]

6'7 255 with soft hands and natural ability to track the ball. 

 

so again...  lets review.

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Cincinnati this and Cincinnati that -- meanwhile the real story down Charlottesville

hmmm how do i put this in a way that makes sense to you guys...

 

Already fapped to the guy during the combine. Do we wait til the fourth round to draft him?

[Paradis]

I can do this all day ppl

 

 

[Lith]

Curious as to what others in this thread think of Christian Watson.  Main board is in love iwth his athleticism, but he scares me for us. 

He is such a great athlete, playing at FCS level, looks like he has won a lot being a far better athlete than guys on the field against him.  I don't see a polished route runner, and he has a high drop rate.  Those are the two things I want out of a WR -- hands and route running -- and I don't think Watson excels at either.  Huge upside based on the athleticism, but I am not sure that is enough to roll the dice at 35 or 38. 

Would love to hear what you guys think.  

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, Lith said:

Curious as to what others in this thread think of Christian Watson.  Main board is in love iwth his athleticism, but he scares me for us. 

He is such a great athlete, playing at FCS level, looks like he has won a lot being a far better athlete than guys on the field against him.  I don't see a polished route runner, and he has a high drop rate.  Those are the two things I want out of a WR -- hands and route running -- and I don't think Watson excels at either.  Huge upside based on the athleticism, but I am not sure that is enough to roll the dice at 35 or 38. 

Would love to hear what you guys think.  

Manufactured touches while he learns to run routes. His comeback route is depressing to watch. But his athleticism and physically is legit. I'd prefer London or Wilson but if we pass on WR he's a perfectly fine consolation prize.