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Prospects 2022 and random college ball talk.


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2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

A lot of my Gamecock friends were really high on Jenkins transferring in this season.  The transition to TE hasn’t been smooth thus far.   A lot of it is that the Cocks are just a really bad team with severe issues at QB, plus there isn’t much confidence in the Shane Beamer coaching staff.  He’s supposedly up to 250 pounds now and given that he’s 6’7” could probably easily add another 10-15 pounds.  His length and agility are interesting though.  

So interesting and I wouldn’t mind securing that skill set for this team.  
 

More importantly I have finally developed a take on Wydermyer. Meh.  

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Everyone is hitting the nail on the head,  I would be really disappointed if the pick was Stingley,  I cant figure out why he has stayed so high through this process without being out.  Hamilton

I have more thoughts on Cross but this is the crux of my opinion. Neal is big, Neal is athletic and Neal has tools but Cross is a little smaller, just as athletic, and capable of dominating in the pas

This is an unacceptable mentality. Not drafting Linderbaum because we have CMG doesn’t fly with me. 

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@sec101row23  I didn’t know much if anything  About Jenkins. Anybody who 67 has my attention though. @kdels62 Tre McBride though I got to say he has my interest. He has been everything for that team, much like Likely at Coastal Carolina Carolina… rankings on TEs are always loose until January- so not hearing anything firm who is highly regarded beyond Wedermyer is nothing new. He won’t be TE1 but top 5 imo. 

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55 minutes ago, Paradis said:

@sec101row23  I didn’t know much if anything  About Jenkins. Anybody who 67 has my attention though. @kdels62 Tre McBride though I got to say he has my interest. He has been everything for that team, much like Likely at Coastal Carolina Carolina… rankings on TEs are always loose until January- so not hearing anything firm who is highly regarded beyond Wedermyer is nothing new. He won’t be TE1 but top 5 imo. 

There's not a ton of separation yet outside of the guys you are mentioning here from my perspective so handy to note that it takes some time for that to occur. Hard because TE is not really featured a ton in a lot of the college offenses as a passing option.

I do have to say Billingsley was a complete non-factor in that A&M game as a receiver. Similar with Sam La Porta for Iowa against Penn State.

Switching gears, I do feel like there are some interesting running backs in this year's draft. Kenneth Walker is putting up some ridiculous numbers early on, though not much as a receiver.

 

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4 hours ago, Paradis said:

@sec101row23  I didn’t know much if anything  About Jenkins. Anybody who 67 has my attention though. @kdels62 Tre McBride though I got to say he has my interest. He has been everything for that team, much like Likely at Coastal Carolina Carolina… rankings on TEs are always loose until January- so not hearing anything firm who is highly regarded beyond Wedermyer is nothing new. He won’t be TE1 but top 5 imo. 

I’m not gonna lie, the Trey McBride love in my heart has metastasized rapidly.

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14 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

the way its going, JD is going to have to use a top 10 pick to get him.  Kids a monster. 

It’s starting to look that way.  Is Pouncy at 15 still the highest drafted center?   

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1 hour ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

the way its going, JD is going to have to use a top 10 pick to get him.  Kids a monster. 

Hype train is just rolling downhill at this point. I said it earlier this year Linderbaum is gonna have the reputation of being a difference maker on the OL from a non-premium position. He won’t fall out of the top 10 at this point. 

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I genuinely wonder if Douglas sees the same potential to bring the offensive line together in Linderbaum that we all do. It seems remarkably obvious but I feel like teams and fans have disconnects on this stuff regularly. The Jets had such a lengthy run of outstanding center play too that I think the fan base has a different appreciation for it.

Hope they can nab Linderbaum with the Seattle pick. Feel like after mostly turning over the OL to replacement level guys Douglas’ first full offseason he really needs to just finish the OL up. Sign a FA guard, draft Linderbaum, draft a tackle somewhere day 2 or early day 3 to compete with Fant and either win the job or take over the following year.

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5 minutes ago, derp said:

I genuinely wonder if Douglas sees the same potential to bring the offensive line together in Linderbaum that we all do. It seems remarkably obvious but I feel like teams and fans have disconnects on this stuff regularly. The Jets had such a lengthy run of outstanding center play too that I think the fan base has a different appreciation for it.

Hope they can nab Linderbaum with the Seattle pick. Feel like after mostly turning over the OL to replacement level guys Douglas’ first full offseason he really needs to just finish the OL up. Sign a FA guard, draft Linderbaum, draft a tackle somewhere day 2 or early day 3 to compete with Fant and either win the job or take over the following year.

To be totally honest, I think everyone sees Linderbaum and knows he’s gonna be a stabilizing force on the OL. The issue that will arise is essentially cat and mouse between NFL teams. The value says “don’t take a center” but I legitimately hope that JD looks at the board and realizes that Linderbaum might just be the best overall player in this draft. 

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21 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

To be totally honest, I think everyone sees Linderbaum and knows he’s gonna be a stabilizing force on the OL. The issue that will arise is essentially cat and mouse between NFL teams. The value says “don’t take a center” but I legitimately hope that JD looks at the board and realizes that Linderbaum might just be the best overall player in this draft. 

I agree with your first sentence but as silly as it is I’m not sure all teams will find that to be as valuable as they should - that’s more what I was getting at.

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2 hours ago, derp said:

I agree with your first sentence but as silly as it is I’m not sure all teams will find that to be as valuable as they should - that’s more what I was getting at.

Very much agree. The one thing I feel hasn't advanced in perception is the value of IOL and right tackles league-wide. Just taking the Jets perspective Linderbaum would shore up one of the Jets biggest weaknesses and turn in into a position of strength. Plug in a RG that is an average NFL starter and suddenly we probably can actually be a team that can run the ball, which is best on-field support you could give Zach Wilson aside from a TE who teams have to actually gameplan around.

 

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19 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

It’s starting to look that way.  Is Pouncy at 15 still the highest drafted center?   

I believe so, guards have shot up the boards the most currently in recent years but center still has lagged behind.. This may be the year that changes. 

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18 hours ago, kdels62 said:

To be totally honest, I think everyone sees Linderbaum and knows he’s gonna be a stabilizing force on the OL. The issue that will arise is essentially cat and mouse between NFL teams. The value says “don’t take a center” but I legitimately hope that JD looks at the board and realizes that Linderbaum might just be the best overall player in this draft. 

the game becomes when to take him now.  knowing the hard on JD had for AVT im sure he's been full mast this whole season watching Linderbaum, the question becomes where do you take him?  

 

If the jets finish the year in their current state and have a top 3 pick, could you pull the trigger on him there?  Thats really high for a center and like you said the value says dont take one that high..  

 

There are two things JD will have to really work on this draft if we want linderbaum.  1. trade down from top 3 but not out of top 8.  or 2) trade up from seattle to top 10. 

Those are really the two most realistic options unless we just say f it and go center in the top 3-5 of the draft.  I think we all know Linderbaum will be a player that ultimately will be worthy of the selection, but its just never been done. 

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13 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

There are two things JD will have to really work on this draft if we want linderbaum.  1. trade down from top 3 but not out of top 8.  or 2) trade up from seattle to top 10. 

Those are really the two most realistic options unless we just say f it and go center in the top 3-5 of the draft.  I think we all know Linderbaum will be a player that ultimately will be worthy of the selection, but its just never been done. 

What would be interesting if JD trades up into the top 10 with the Seattle pick to take Linderbaum is that he would have traded up into the top 15 and top 10 in consecutive drafts to take a guard and a center.  That’s a lot of draft capital spent on two interior O-linemen.  Then add in Becton taken at 11 the previous year.   It could present some interesting salary cap decisions down the road if all these guys play to their draft slot.  But those are the good kind of cap decisions.  

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17 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

the game becomes when to take him now.  knowing the hard on JD had for AVT im sure he's been full mast this whole season watching Linderbaum, the question becomes where do you take him?  

 

If the jets finish the year in their current state and have a top 3 pick, could you pull the trigger on him there?  Thats really high for a center and like you said the value says dont take one that high..  

 

There are two things JD will have to really work on this draft if we want linderbaum.  1. trade down from top 3 but not out of top 8.  or 2) trade up from seattle to top 10. 

Those are really the two most realistic options unless we just say f it and go center in the top 3-5 of the draft.  I think we all know Linderbaum will be a player that ultimately will be worthy of the selection, but its just never been done. 

Linderbaum may legitimately be the best overall player in this draft. I don’t think it’s a crazy thought to take him in the top 5. However, it’s a hard pill to swallow (in terms of traditional value) and one that analytic departments would lose their minds over. 

I hope JD has the conviction to take a guy that looks like a sure fire home run but I couldn’t fault him for passing on Linderbaum in the top 10. That being said if Linderbaum is on the board after pick 10 and we don’t take him, I’ll lose my damn mind. 

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Just now, kdels62 said:

This is an unacceptable mentality. Not drafting Linderbaum because we have CMG doesn’t fly with me. 

Especially when CMG is probably a better guard than center.  

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25 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Especially when CMG is probably a better guard than center.  

The other issue is that I don’t see a must have player that makes sense over Linderbaum. If Thibodeaux falls then he’s the obvious pick, but in the 5-10 range is there a guy that’s an obvious pick over the high end center prospect? Stingley? Booth? Hutchinson? 

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41 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

What would be interesting if JD trades up into the top 10 with the Seattle pick to take Linderbaum is that he would have traded up into the top 15 and top 10 in consecutive drafts to take a guard and a center.  That’s a lot of draft capital spent on two interior O-linemen.  Then add in Becton taken at 11 the previous year.   It could present some interesting salary cap decisions down the road if all these guys play to their draft slot.  But those are the good kind of cap decisions.  

Yea i mean at some point this team is going to be heavily invested $$ wise in the OL. there are going to be a lot of top picks on it, which isnt a bad thing, we saw the cowboys get it done for years, it just becomes tricky when Zach comes up for a deal at a similar time. 

 

 

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36 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Linderbaum may legitimately be the best overall player in this draft. I don’t think it’s a crazy thought to take him in the top 5. However, it’s a hard pill to swallow (in terms of traditional value) and one that analytic departments would lose their minds over. 

I hope JD has the conviction to take a guy that looks like a sure fire home run but I couldn’t fault him for passing on Linderbaum in the top 10. That being said if Linderbaum is on the board after pick 10 and we don’t take him, I’ll lose my damn mind. 

I think if he fell out of the top 10 JD has shown he'll be aggressive for guys he feels like are at the top of his board.  He went up for AVT last year and he has the ammo to do it again.. Especially with wilson out for a month or so now, if that Seattle pick is in the Teens? watch out. 

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5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

The other issue is that I don’t see a must have player that makes sense over Linderbaum. If Thibodeaux falls then he’s the obvious pick, but in the 5-10 range is there a guy that’s an obvious pick over the high end center prospect? Stingley? Booth? Hutchinson? 

this is a good point.  Aside from Thibodeaux, I'm not sure there is a player yet in that top 10 that is a MUST take guy.  Thibs fits a need for us and is maybe the top player in the draft, so if he fell I couldnt fault JD for selecting him over Linds. 

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34 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Especially when CMG is probably a better guard than center.  

Which is confusing to me.  I know the Jets believe this too, which is why I thought for sure they would target a center and move him to guard last offseason.  I had heard early on that JD and the FO believed the same thing that his best position was guard but they had such a hole at center the liked him enough there too.  

 

Linderbaum could in theory solve two spots with one pick... would upgrade Center and Guard by shifting CMG over.  

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5 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

The other issue is that I don’t see a must have player that makes sense over Linderbaum. If Thibodeaux falls then he’s the obvious pick, but in the 5-10 range is there a guy that’s an obvious pick over the high end center prospect? Stingley? Booth? Hutchinson? 

Agreed.  I don’t think there is a bunch of elite talent at the top of this draft class outside of a couple guys, Linderbaum is one of those guys.  There is a bunch of really good edge players after Thibodeaux, but those could be had with the Seattle pick later in the first.  

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46 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

What would be interesting if JD trades up into the top 10 with the Seattle pick to take Linderbaum is that he would have traded up into the top 15 and top 10 in consecutive drafts to take a guard and a center.  That’s a lot of draft capital spent on two interior O-linemen.  Then add in Becton taken at 11 the previous year.   It could present some interesting salary cap decisions down the road if all these guys play to their draft slot.  But those are the good kind of cap decisions.  

Definitely would get interesting cap wise. Kind of depends on the way the players are wired too, do they want to reset the bar at their position or just get fair comp and move forward? Paying Brick and Mangold wasn’t a problem.

Also think we’ve seen scheme priorities match draft capital allocation - if dollar capital goes the same way I think they’re going to pay guys up front on both sides and let everything else shuffle around.

42 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

This is an unacceptable mentality. Not drafting Linderbaum because we have CMG doesn’t fly with me. 

This is a good example of what I was saying I was worried/wondering about a couple days ago. I think it’s wrong and shortsighted but it’s at least close enough to logical that people are going to think that way. And Douglas has been letting guys play out contracts.

I frankly think drafting Linderbaum and moving McGovern to G isn’t enough of a change so though so maybe I’m just bracing myself for disappointment.

Doulgas really hasn’t cut guys who he thinks will get signed in FA. I think that’s my overarching concern. We’re one year out from three holes opening up on the OL. I guess he’ll try to fill two or maybe all three of them via the draft this offseason though since filling needs a year early has also been his MO.

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45 minutes ago, derp said:

Definitely would get interesting cap wise. Kind of depends on the way the players are wired too, do they want to reset the bar at their position or just get fair comp and move forward? Paying Brick and Mangold wasn’t a problem.

Also think we’ve seen scheme priorities match draft capital allocation - if dollar capital goes the same way I think they’re going to pay guys up front on both sides and let everything else shuffle around.

This is a good example of what I was saying I was worried/wondering about a couple days ago. I think it’s wrong and shortsighted but it’s at least close enough to logical that people are going to think that way. And Douglas has been letting guys play out contracts.

I frankly think drafting Linderbaum and moving McGovern to G isn’t enough of a change so though so maybe I’m just bracing myself for disappointment.

Doulgas really hasn’t cut guys who he thinks will get signed in FA. I think that’s my overarching concern. We’re one year out from three holes opening up on the OL. I guess he’ll try to fill two or maybe all three of them via the draft this offseason though since filling needs a year early has also been his MO.

Well I don’t have have the capacity to worry about FA yet so a full offseason is beyond my grasp for now. I also don’t think a line needs to be all first rounders to be good.
Becton, AVT, Linds, CMG, Fant

Thats an NFL caliber line with upside and extending Fant or CMG at that point wouldn’t be overly expensive. 
 

I definitely agree that a FO can convince itself to pass on Linderbaum for McG but if that happens it’s a red flag on the FO.

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53 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Well I don’t have have the capacity to worry about FA yet so a full offseason is beyond my grasp for now. I also don’t think a line needs to be all first rounders to be good.
Becton, AVT, Linds, CMG, Fant

Thats an NFL caliber line with upside and extending Fant or CMG at that point wouldn’t be overly expensive. 
 

I definitely agree that a FO can convince itself to pass on Linderbaum for McG but if that happens it’s a red flag on the FO.

I don’t think a line needs to be all first rounders to be good, but I also think that McGovern is pretty meh and Fant’s strength (pass pro) is important in the short term with a young QB but this offense would look a lot better in this system if it could run the ball off tackle well in both directions.

Very Douglas to go into the draft with some flexibility. I do wonder if he does nothing notable for the OL in FA. Head into the draft with McGovern so he doesn’t need Linderbaum and really only needs to address RG somehow (but Linderbaum and McGovern to guard accomplishes that as would say a day two guard). 

Linderbaum followed by a day 2 tackle and a late day 2/early day 3 guard probably rounds things out nicely. Tackle competes with Fant and guard competes with McGovern, add some quality depth, see how things shake out  that season, maybe don’t have more OL needs the following year. They’re going to potentially want someone to push Becton too depending on how the rest of the season shakes out so that day two tackle seems likely. As much as Fant hasn’t been elite he’s really offered Douglas so much flexibility in roster building and been huge in pass pro with Becton out.

Agree with your last point very much, it’s a pretty critical time for the team though where the FO really can’t afford to add that red flag. Elite center play could be absolutely huge for this OL and in turn the entire offense. Protect the QB, improve the run game which helps the QB too. Plus he’s a perfect scheme fit who probably even opens up the playbook in the run game a little and evidently is a solid dude too. There isn’t going to be that guy in the draft the following year or the year after. I realize I’m just ranting and not telling you anything you don’t know but it would be a really, really big miss.

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2 hours ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  I don’t think there is a bunch of elite talent at the top of this draft class outside of a couple guys, Linderbaum is one of those guys.  There is a bunch of really good edge players after Thibodeaux, but those could be had with the Seattle pick later in the first.  

i agree. Sucks that the QBs are underwhelming overall so far because that would've been very helpful. Stingley being hurt and injury prone doesn't help, plus I question whether the Jets want to commit high draft picks to corner. I think they'd sooner take one of the edges before that.

There's also a question of how you feel about the ohio state WRs + Burks and where they end up at the end of the year.

 

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34 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

i agree. Sucks that the QBs are underwhelming overall so far because that would've been very helpful. Stingley being hurt and injury prone doesn't help, plus I question whether the Jets want to commit high draft picks to corner. I think they'd sooner take one of the edges before that.

There's also a question of how you feel about the ohio state WRs + Burks and where they end up at the end of the year.

 

I'm always a fan of round 2 or 3 WR's over round 1 - it's a risky position early, you can still get elite guys in round 2, and I think the most successful offenses end up with a stable of threats rather than overinvesting in one guy.

I think the position moved up boards a little with the absolutely insane talent level in the early 2000's up through 2011 - guys like Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, and Julio Jones. Guys are still getting drafted in that area now but they're just not at the same level in my opinion - Mike Evans is probably the closest and I think he's just a notch below those guys.

Aidan Hutchinson is I think the guy who's going to be interesting to track if the Jets aren't in play at the level of getting Thibodeaux. Supposed to be an elite athlete, on the freaks list heading into the season, and he's been really good this year. If they end up in the middle of the top ten he'd make sense from a positional value standpoint though with JFM re-signed you're talking about a bad team drafting a guy in the top ten and having pretty serious investments in two other guys at the position. Though if you over invest somewhere that's probably the spot.

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19 hours ago, derp said:

I'm always a fan of round 2 or 3 WR's over round 1 - it's a risky position early, you can still get elite guys in round 2, and I think the most successful offenses end up with a stable of threats rather than overinvesting in one guy.

I think the position moved up boards a little with the absolutely insane talent level in the early 2000's up through 2011 - guys like Andre Johnson, Larry Fitzgerald, Calvin Johnson, AJ Green, and Julio Jones. Guys are still getting drafted in that area now but they're just not at the same level in my opinion - Mike Evans is probably the closest and I think he's just a notch below those guys.

Aidan Hutchinson is I think the guy who's going to be interesting to track if the Jets aren't in play at the level of getting Thibodeaux. Supposed to be an elite athlete, on the freaks list heading into the season, and he's been really good this year. If they end up in the middle of the top ten he'd make sense from a positional value standpoint though with JFM re-signed you're talking about a bad team drafting a guy in the top ten and having pretty serious investments in two other guys at the position. Though if you over invest somewhere that's probably the spot.

My Hutchinson take is… he disappeared against Rutgers. 

Honestly though Hutchinson is really good, however so are George Karlaftis, DeMarvin Leal, Kingsley Enagbare. With the money JD is paying JFM and Lawson and with Huff being a starter quality backup I don’t see a high pick going to an EDGE player (unless that player is Thibodeaux). 

On another EDGE rushing note it’s looking like ZTF is gonna make his return to Washington soon and I love him.

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On 10/15/2021 at 5:47 PM, kdels62 said:

My Hutchinson take is… he disappeared against Rutgers. 

Honestly though Hutchinson is really good, however so are George Karlaftis, DeMarvin Leal, Kingsley Enagbare. With the money JD is paying JFM and Lawson and with Huff being a starter quality backup I don’t see a high pick going to an EDGE player (unless that player is Thibodeaux). 

On another EDGE rushing note it’s looking like ZTF is gonna make his return to Washington soon and I love him.

Sam Williams Ole Miss is interesting as a mid-round pick with his athleticism. On the field, he's got good straight line athleticism and a violent punch, but still raw and not the most natural bend. Though he has an arrest for sexual assault on his record so might not be a Jet pick based on how they like to draft. Still, he's got 6.5 sacks in 6 games thus far this year.

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This is a great thread.  

It's too bad Linderbaum is flying up the boards but his talent is too easy to see.  He does everything the Jets need help with. 

There are lots of late round OLine guys who hit big, but trying for that is a luxury the Jets don't have now. 

AVT was a great pick.  If Becton only shows average in pass protection, add Linderbaum and a decent TE to open the run game up and allow high percentage runs in short yardage situations.  They have no push as is. 

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