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On 10/14/2021 at 10:08 AM, derp said:

I genuinely wonder if Douglas sees the same potential to bring the offensive line together in Linderbaum that we all do. It seems remarkably obvious but I feel like teams and fans have disconnects on this stuff regularly

You have to think that (depending our final record) Linderbaum to the Jets will be the most popular/common mocked picks in every draft published. Unfortunately the majority of those 1-5 teams are as bad as we are - and many a QB in yr1... Linderbaum might go top 5

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I have more thoughts on Cross but this is the crux of my opinion. Neal is big, Neal is athletic and Neal has tools but Cross is a little smaller, just as athletic, and capable of dominating in the pas

Everyone is hitting the nail on the head,  I would be really disappointed if the pick was Stingley,  I cant figure out why he has stayed so high through this process without being out.  Hamilton

This is an unacceptable mentality. Not drafting Linderbaum because we have CMG doesn’t fly with me. 

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Just now, Paradis said:

You have to think that (depending our final record) Linderbaum to the Jets will be the most popular/common mocked picks in every draft published. Unfortunately the majority of those 1-5 teams are as bad as we are - and many a QB in yr1... Linderbaum might go top 5

I think here for sure but random Internet mock draft goons are going to give the Jets corners and wide receivers in the first round in addition to defensive end. Maybe a guard.

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3 minutes ago, derp said:

I think here for sure but random Internet mock draft goons are going to give the Jets corners and wide receivers in the first round in addition to defensive end. Maybe a guard.

Those trolls will exist, but i think the more established writers will be looking through the lens of Douglas, and seeing the need to bolster the protection and get the running game going as priority #1... and Linderbaum sits atop that answer-sheet, uncontested. 

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18 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Those trolls will exist, but i think the more established writers will be looking through the lens of Douglas, and seeing the need to bolster the protection and get the running game going as priority #1... and Linderbaum sits atop that answer-sheet, uncontested. 

You’ve got more faith than I do in those guys, I think even the beat writers are usually way off on this stuff. I could see Brugler and Jeremiah doing an okay job but even then, DJ had the Jets taking Etienne with the Seattle pick pretty late last draft. I think it’s hard to be legitimately thoughtful for 32 teams.

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9 minutes ago, derp said:

You’ve got more faith than I do in those guys, I think even the beat writers are usually way off on this stuff. I could see Brugler and Jeremiah doing an okay job but even then, DJ had the Jets taking Etienne with the Seattle pick pretty late last draft. I think it’s hard to be legitimately thoughtful for 32 teams.

Yea i see what you mean. those media personalities always seems to project teams to make sexy skill player picks - Etienne to the jets at 23 was like - yea right. Didn't DJ you do this job for years? Wake up. ...yet, every year after 3-4 rounds of drafting, there's always far more trench workers taken. The conversation shouldn't why this WR slipped or that RB fell -- it should be about why teams took this OT, or that DE

 

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46 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Those trolls will exist, but i think the more established writers will be looking through the lens of Douglas, and seeing the need to bolster the protection and get the running game going as priority #1... and Linderbaum sits atop that answer-sheet, uncontested. 

I guarantee you this board would go ape-**** if we took a center top 5. But he's the single most impactful player for the Jets that they could get and he's such a clear boss like Quentin Nelson was years back. Take him all day long as far as I'm concerned. The Jets need tight ends, an actual running game, and to kick GVR into the ******* sun and replacing him in some fashion.

 

 

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This is a far more boring take than it would have been a week ago but a devy article I was reading reminded me - David Bell seems like the kind of WR who’s going to outperform his draft position. Don’t think he’s crazy athletic or productive enough to go super high in the first but seems like he’s just good at playing WR and has been for a while.

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1 hour ago, derp said:

This is a far more boring take than it would have been a week ago but a devy article I was reading reminded me - David Bell seems like the kind of WR who’s going to outperform his draft position. Don’t think he’s crazy athletic or productive enough to go super high in the first but seems like he’s just good at playing WR and has been for a while.

Feels like a Jericho Cotchery-type player in the pros. I love him, and think he’d be great for the team.

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13 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Feels like a Jericho Cotchery-type player in the pros. I love him, and think he’d be great for the team.

I see more ability to make wild catches outside his frame than Cotchery but I get where you're going. He's almost Marvin Jones-ish with that lanky frame, body control, and ability to snatch the ball away from his body.

The devy article compared him to Hopkins which I think is a little rich haha but I kind of see the pretty average across the board combine profile (not that fast, not that tall, not that bulky) but the dude gets open, can make contested plays when he needs to, hands catches outside his frame, and has put up numbers since he got onto campus but isn't benefitting from a loaded offense.

Again think the Hopkins comparison is rich and I'm not saying he's Davante Adams either because I think a lot has to break right for a guy to get to that level as an NFL player but those guys were 6'1 210ish, have great hands, and ran in the mid 4.5's and didn't go that high because the physical attributes didn't jump out but were really, really good at playing WR. For whatever reason NFL teams discount that profile but it's a pretty strong one, especially analytics wise, and if you can get that day two I think it's a solid move. Way better hit rate than the guy who had like 900 yards in college but goes in the top 10 because he ran in the 4.2's.

On one hand I'm not sure "speed creates pressure, pressure bursts pipes" Joe Douglas drafts someone like that but I also think the outside the frame ability and body control meshes well with Wilson's tendency to throw back shoulder from college and the WR group could really use someone steady after Crowder presumably goes in FA. He's going to be the one I'm disappointed got away if he's there with the Carolina pick or especially the Jets' third rounder.

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31 minutes ago, derp said:

I see more ability to make wild catches outside his frame than Cotchery but I get where you're going. He's almost Marvin Jones-ish with that lanky frame, body control, and ability to snatch the ball away from his body.

The devy article compared him to Hopkins which I think is a little rich haha but I kind of see the pretty average across the board combine profile (not that fast, not that tall, not that bulky) but the dude gets open, can make contested plays when he needs to, hands catches outside his frame, and has put up numbers since he got onto campus but isn't benefitting from a loaded offense.

Again think the Hopkins comparison is rich and I'm not saying he's Davante Adams either because I think a lot has to break right for a guy to get to that level as an NFL player but those guys were 6'1 210ish, have great hands, and ran in the mid 4.5's and didn't go that high because the physical attributes didn't jump out but were really, really good at playing WR. For whatever reason NFL teams discount that profile but it's a pretty strong one, especially analytics wise, and if you can get that day two I think it's a solid move. Way better hit rate than the guy who had like 900 yards in college but goes in the top 10 because he ran in the 4.2's.

On one hand I'm not sure "speed creates pressure, pressure bursts pipes" Joe Douglas drafts someone like that but I also think the outside the frame ability and body control meshes well with Wilson's tendency to throw back shoulder from college and the WR group could really use someone steady after Crowder presumably goes in FA. He's going to be the one I'm disappointed got away if he's there with the Carolina pick or especially the Jets' third rounder.

I don’t think of Bell as exceptionally dynamic at the catch point. I think he’s sure handed but not much more than that. Bell has a knack for finding space where other receivers would not and it’s so subtle. Against Iowa he’d set up Hankins with varied speed and altered routes out of the same releases. 

Burks to me is the best WR in this class, I really don’t love Wilson, and Olave’s rise to first rounder has me less interested in him. Spending a second rounder on Bell is chef’s kiss.

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15 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

I don’t think of Bell as exceptionally dynamic at the catch point. I think he’s sure handed but not much more than that. Bell has a knack for finding space where other receivers would not and it’s so subtle. Against Iowa he’d set up Hankins with varied speed and altered routes out of the same releases. 

Burks to me is the best WR in this class, I really don’t love Wilson, and Olave’s rise to first rounder has me less interested in him. Spending a second rounder on Bell is chef’s kiss.

I think we’re on a similar page - it’s body control more than being dynamic and it shows up in several areas of his game including contested balls. Part of what leads to him being way more effective than measurables would have you think.

Burks is a lot of fun and my kind of WR, feel like he’s got a wide range. Except in a few cases I’ll take second or third round WR’s over first rounders so I’m not too invested in the class just yet since I’m curious how they all shake out.

It’s also not a huge need but I think something they could address if it’s right prospect, fit, and value.

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This is an awesome thread…just talking football without an agenda by guys who actually follow the game and players. I’d really like to hear your opinions on several things as I don’t follow as closely.

  1. What are your thoughts on Kyle Hamilton? Although there are greater positions of need, should the Jets at least look at him if a great player that fills a need isn’t available? Is he that good as advertised or overhyped?
  2. What are your thoughts on Aiden Hutchinson? Reports are he is having a breakout year and playing phenomenal. If the Jets can’t draft Kayvon, is Aiden a good alternative? According to a lot of articles he is, but is that true?
  3. Seeing how the Panthers and Darnold’s game deteriorated when CMC was injured and the impact Derrick Henry has on the game, do you see any RBs available in the 2nd round or later that although maybe not as good as CMC and DH, could have a positive impact on ZWs development and the offense? Is that a position the Jets should be looking to improve in the next draft with one of the 10 picks?

Thanks in advance for your input.

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52 minutes ago, All Gas, No Gase said:

This is an awesome thread…just talking football without an agenda by guys who actually follow the game and players. I’d really like to hear your opinions on several things as I don’t follow as closely.

  1. What are your thoughts on Kyle Hamilton? Although there are greater positions of need, should the Jets at least look at him if a great player that fills a need isn’t available? Is he that good as advertised or overhyped?
  2. What are your thoughts on Aiden Hutchinson? Reports are he is having a breakout year and playing phenomenal. If the Jets can’t draft Kayvon, is Aiden a good alternative? According to a lot of articles he is, but is that true?
  3. Seeing how the Panthers and Darnold’s game deteriorated when CMC was injured and the impact Derrick Henry has on the game, do you see any RBs available in the 2nd round or later that although maybe not as good as CMC and DH, could have a positive impact on ZWs development and the offense? Is that a position the Jets should be looking to improve in the next draft with one of the 10 picks?

Thanks in advance for your input.

1. Hamilton… really great all around safety prospect. He’s still a safety. There are 3 truly elite prospects in this draft: Thibodeaux, Linderbaum and Hamilton. There is 0 reason to draft Hamilton before Linderbaum. 

2. Hutchinson: he’s really good. Worthy of a first round pick and apparently he’s a freak amongst freaks, but I don’t see the bend to make him a must have player like Thibodeaux. That being said, if Linderbaum and Thibs are unavailable Hutchinson has to be in the conversation. However, I don’t see much separation in talent between, Hutchinson and Karlaftis. 

3. I don’t see a freak running back in this draft. Run games are better built with great OLs than with generational talents like CMC and Henry.

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32 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

1. Hamilton… really great all around safety prospect. He’s still a safety. There are 3 truly elite prospects in this draft: Thibodeaux, Linderbaum and Hamilton. There is 0 reason to draft Hamilton before Linderbaum. 

2. Hutchinson: he’s really good. Worthy of a first round pick and apparently he’s a freak amongst freaks, but I don’t see the bend to make him a must have player like Thibodeaux. That being said, if Linderbaum and Thibs are unavailable Hutchinson has to be in the conversation. However, I don’t see much separation in talent between, Hutchinson and Karlaftis. 

3. I don’t see a freak running back in this draft. Run games are better built with great OLs than with generational talents like CMC and Henry.

Thanks for the input. I totally agree about starting with a great Oline to build the run game. It could transform the offense to build a great Oline AND get a freak running back as well.

I see more mock drafts have Linderbaum going in the top ten. The Jets may have to use its first pick to get him which wouldn’t be a bad thing.

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49 minutes ago, All Gas, No Gase said:

This is an awesome thread…just talking football without an agenda by guys who actually follow the game and players. I’d really like to hear your opinions on several things as I don’t follow as closely.

  1. What are your thoughts on Kyle Hamilton? Although there are greater positions of need, should the Jets at least look at him if a great player that fills a need isn’t available? Is he that good as advertised or overhyped?
  2. What are your thoughts on Aiden Hutchinson? Reports are he is having a breakout year and playing phenomenal. If the Jets can’t draft Kayvon, is Aiden a good alternative? According to a lot of articles he is, but is that true?
  3. Seeing how the Panthers and Darnold’s game deteriorated when CMC was injured and the impact Derrick Henry has on the game, do you see any RBs available in the 2nd round or later that although maybe not as good as CMC and DH, could have a positive impact on ZWs development and the offense? Is that a position the Jets should be looking to improve in the next draft with one of the 10 picks?

Thanks in advance for your input.

1) I think Kyle Hamilton is a big safety that can cover well, blitz, and play the run. He's physical and plays downhill with speed and I'd say his upside is probably someone like Kam Chancellor if things work out well. For the Jets? I just don't see a match if we have a top 5 pick. I personally don't think we're in a position to add players at safety with high picks when we need to fix OL and TE, which are essential pieces in this offense. Hamilton is the best safety in the draft, but I don't know how much more impactful he is than Brandon Joseph, Daxton Hill, Jordan Battle, Jalen Catalon, etc. Good player though, if this was a loaded team, I wouldn't mind it.

2) Aiden Hutchinson is legit. That position 100% is heavily influenced by athletic testing, so it's kind of a waiting game until the numbers come in, but he's solid. I prefer Karlaftis myself, but I'd be happy with either.

3) I haven't seen a gamebreaker, yet but there is a bunch of backs with upside that should be available. Kenneth Walker MSU is balling out this year, he's rushed for almost 1,000 yards in 7 games. Sincere Mccormick is a guy from UTSA that's fun to watch. Not a big guy, but a very good one-cut back that doesn't have top-end speed, but has good acceleration and decent change of direction.

I don't know their philosophy on drafting RBs early yet, so Spiller might be out, but those are some mid-round guys I'd look at. I'm sure there's a whole bunch I haven't watched yet though.

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4 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

1) I think Kyle Hamilton is a big safety that can cover well, blitz, and play the run. He's physical and plays downhill with speed and I'd say his upside is probably someone like Kam Chancellor if things work out well. For the Jets? I just don't see a match if we have a top 5 pick. I personally don't think we're in a position to add players at safety with high picks when we need to fix OL and TE, which are essential pieces in this offense. Hamilton is the best safety in the draft, but I don't know how much more impactful he is than Brandon Joseph, Daxton Hill, Jordan Battle, Jalen Catalon, etc. Good player though, if this was a loaded team, I wouldn't mind it.

2) Aiden Hutchinson is legit. That position 100% is heavily influenced by athletic testing, so it's kind of a waiting game until the numbers come in, but he's solid. I prefer Karlaftis myself, but I'd be happy with either.

3) I haven't seen a gamebreaker, yet but there is a bunch of backs with upside that should be available. Kenneth Walker MSU is balling out this year, he's rushed for almost 1,000 yards in 7 games. Sincere Mccormick is a guy from UTSA that's fun to watch. Not a big guy, but a very good one-cut back that doesn't have top-end speed, but has good acceleration and decent change of direction.

I don't know their philosophy on drafting RBs early yet, so Spiller might be out, but those are some mid-round guys I'd look at. I'm sure there's a whole bunch I haven't watched yet though.

Oh and I have to say… Jaquan Brisker is worth a second round pick. I really like his game. He’s like Jamal Adams plus coverage ability. 

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Hot take: I’m not touchin Stingley. 
 

he had one dominant year his freshman year and has fell of cliff. His play is worse and locker room stuff is off. 
 

Give me Hutchinson and Linderbaum all day. 
 

id consider Hamilton because he’s so damn good but Safety position just not worth that investment so early. 

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1 hour ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Hot take: I’m not touchin Stingley. 
 

he had one dominant year his freshman year and has fell of cliff. His play is worse and locker room stuff is off. 
 

Give me Hutchinson and Linderbaum all day. 
 

id consider Hamilton because he’s so damn good but Safety position just not worth that investment so early. 

I have Gardner and McDuffie at their projected spots as much better value than Stingley. They also might just be better overall players over their full bodies of work. 

I think JD agrees and passes on CB early .

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22 hours ago, derp said:

I think we’re on a similar page - it’s body control more than being dynamic and it shows up in several areas of his game including contested balls. Part of what leads to him being way more effective than measurables would have you think.

Burks is a lot of fun and my kind of WR, feel like he’s got a wide range. Except in a few cases I’ll take second or third round WR’s over first rounders so I’m not too invested in the class just yet since I’m curious how they all shake out.

It’s also not a huge need but I think something they could address if it’s right prospect, fit, and value.

both you and @kdels62 are on the money about bell.  The hopkins comparison is off, although maybe they'll time similar, hopkins route running ability is way better than bells currently, and he's not close to as quick as Adams is. 

What Bell is is a very good receiver of the football, which sounds funny, but the kid catches it naturally, very soft hands, and can really go get a contested catch.  he has great balance, good body and spacial awareness which help him get open.  What I need to see more is break points on routes and releases because right now im not seeing an overly developed package in those regards (which admittedly I have not watched much of him this year, or anyone yet).  

Idk where I would take him yet,  he has the potential to be an extremely solid wr at the next level i believe if i can see a little more film then ill have a better feel for true potential but hes certainly someone to keep an eye on during this process.  Guys that catch the ball well in college have been solid pros before so thats a plus

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49 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

A nice way to get a look at Karlaftis and Linderbaum. Karlaftis is gonna need to adjust better to the run game. Sounds perfect considering our depth.

Linderbaum is so good at double teams and coming off to backer its wild, so smooth with it, times it perfectly and really squares up defenders on contact. 

Only thing I saw on film you could even dare say anything about is once or twice he burried his head on a pass few pass pro doubles and missed the backer coming on delay. 

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12 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I have Gardner and McDuffie at their projected spots as much better value than Stingley. They also might just be better overall players over their full bodies of work. 

I think JD agrees and passes on CB early .

I agree. Stingley is gunna stay high because of his freshman year and I’m sure he will do very well at Combine too but idc- I like Gardners value a lot more. 
 

I actually just hope Echols plays well all season and we don’t have to invest a 1st rounder in CB. If Hall, Echols, Carter Guidry keep playing how they playing then I’d rather just use a 2nd or 3rd rounder to get depth and develop more talent. 
 

We’ll see - a lot depends on where that Seattle pick falls 

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14 minutes ago, Be_a_Jet said:

I agree. Stingley is gunna stay high because of his freshman year and I’m sure he will do very well at Combine too but idc- I like Gardners value a lot more. 
 

I actually just hope Echols plays well all season and we don’t have to invest a 1st rounder in CB. If Hall, Echols, Carter Guidry keep playing how they playing then I’d rather just use a 2nd or 3rd rounder to get depth and develop more talent. 
 

We’ll see - a lot depends on where that Seattle pick falls 

I think JD and Saleh will be fine rolling with Hall, Echols, Dunn, Pinnock, MC2, Guidry. They’ll probably add a traits guy later on. 

We badly need a LB. The main board loves Mosley but our coverage in the middle of the field has been terrible. I’m low key thinking that a trade for Isaiah Simmons might be in our future. He’s been a bust so far but he’s a great fit. 

Draft wise… I hate scouting off ball LBers.

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16 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

Hot take: I’m not touchin Stingley. 
 

he had one dominant year his freshman year and has fell of cliff. His play is worse and locker room stuff is off. 
 

Give me Hutchinson and Linderbaum all day. 
 

id consider Hamilton because he’s so damn good but Safety position just not worth that investment so early. 

I agree especially considering it seems he is injured again.

I also remember reading that Saleh has never played a CB drafted earlier in the 3rd round. He doesn’t need true number 1 lock-down corners in his defense; rather an elite Dline.

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On 10/6/2021 at 11:47 AM, derp said:

It’s an interesting year to presumably have a pretty high pick since the huge holes (RG, TE) aren’t really top of the first round positions and pretty much anything else can be upgraded though they almost certainly won’t be going QB. That first pick will probably just come down to how they want to build and who they like. Kind of like Miami last year.

I'd love a trade back to pick up an extra 1st rounder in the following draft.

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4 hours ago, Be_a_Jet said:

I agree. Stingley is gunna stay high because of his freshman year and I’m sure he will do very well at Combine too but idc- I like Gardners value a lot more. 
 

I actually just hope Echols plays well all season and we don’t have to invest a 1st rounder in CB. If Hall, Echols, Carter Guidry keep playing how they playing then I’d rather just use a 2nd or 3rd rounder to get depth and develop more talent. 
 

We’ll see - a lot depends on where that Seattle pick falls 

The internet has really turned onto “Stingley to the Jets.” I hate it. 

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First round I'd love to see wyrdermyer right tackle or center. Stay away from defense for the first round plenty of depth. I'd stay away from wr also in the first round can get a decent guy outside of round one. I like Jadon hasselwood with our second round two or first round three I think he will be a riser in the draft he plays with alot of effort which is going to show on tape.

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app

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6 hours ago, kdels62 said:

I think JD and Saleh will be fine rolling with Hall, Echols, Dunn, Pinnock, MC2, Guidry. They’ll probably add a traits guy later on. 

We badly need a LB. The main board loves Mosley but our coverage in the middle of the field has been terrible. I’m low key thinking that a trade for Isaiah Simmons might be in our future. He’s been a bust so far but he’s a great fit. 

Draft wise… I hate scouting off ball LBers.

honestly, the guys JD/Rob brought are decent. And young. Still need to continue bolstering the secondary -- but no need to mail in the round 1 picks for CBs... like, at all. 

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1 hour ago, bealeb319 said:

First round I'd love to see wyrdermyer right tackle or center. 

Sent from my Pixel 2 XL using JetNation.com mobile app
 

The rise of Wydermyer.... has been interesting. I like him, liked him last year too... but he hasn't done anything to be auto-slotted at the top. 

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Just now, Paradis said:

The rise of Wydermyer.... has been interesting. I like him, liked him last year too... but he hasn't done anything to be auto-slotted at the top. 

Truly bizarre. He looks the part but the assumed gap between him and other tight ends is a farce. Also Likely is obviously the top TE. Genuinely think he is the obvious TE1.

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41 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Truly bizarre. He looks the part but the assumed gap between him and other tight ends is a farce. Also Likely is obviously the top TE. Genuinely think he is the obvious TE1.

I haven’t watched enough of Likely but I’ll be surprised if Wydermyer is the consensus top TE to this extent come draft day. I can’t see him running well and other guys will.

Haven't watched everyone yet either but Likely has the most fluidity and YAC type ability by a pretty wide margin. He seems unique for this class. Rucker’s is the closest and can run at least. Not that they should all go in the same place but Wydermyer, McBride, and Kolar all look like guys who aren’t going to get a ton of separation but can make contested catches.

To that end for a team that could double dip like the Jets because they have basically no TE’s a Likely-Kolar pairing loses a lot less than Wydermyer and somebody else who is similar to Likely.

Still need to look more at La Porta and others, I didn’t mind Otten but didn’t see anything special either and it was long enough ago I don’t exactly remember where he fell but I feel like athletically he was behind Ruckert but ahead of the others.

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4 minutes ago, derp said:

I haven’t watched enough of Likely but I’ll be surprised if Wydermyer is the consensus top TE to this extent come draft day. I can’t see him running well and other guys will.

Haven't watched everyone yet either but Likely has the most fluidity and YAC type ability by a pretty wide margin. He seems unique for this class. Rucker’s is the closest and can run at least. Not that they should all go in the same place but Wydermyer, McBride, and Kolar all look like guys who aren’t going to get a ton of separation but can make contested catches.

To that end for a team that could double dip like the Jets because they have basically no TE’s a Likely-Kolar pairing loses a lot less than Wydermyer and somebody else who is similar to Likely.

Still need to look more at La Porta and others, I didn’t mind Otten but didn’t see anything special either and it was long enough ago I don’t exactly remember where he fell but I feel like athletically he was behind Ruckert but ahead of the others.

My issue is Kolar is that he can’t block/ doesn’t want to block. McBride and Likely are a great pairing with McBride as an in-line guy and Likely as the flex. 

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34 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

My issue is Kolar is that he can’t block/ doesn’t want to block. McBride and Likely are a great pairing with McBride as an in-line guy and Likely as the flex. 

I’m not a big Kolar guy either. I’ve seen him move a couple times too but he largely looks like he’s going to run quite a bad 40.

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2 hours ago, kdels62 said:

Truly bizarre. He looks the part but the assumed gap between him and other tight ends is a farce. Also Likely is obviously the top TE. Genuinely think he is the obvious TE1.

Ehhh i'm not there with Likely, yet. Love him, but he's more Jared Cook than he is Hockensen or Fant... that said, i've watched him as a fan this year, not really with an eye for scrutiny. Ruckert is still TE1 in my books - physically and positionally. It's October though... we'll see 

 

 

Kolar is a tad overrated IMO

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btw, i've made a killing off CCU this year and i should have seen this coming tonight. As good as they've been, they're sloppy. Bad tacklers and undisciplined. 

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