Embrace the Suck Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: The point is more that the incumbent team MVP was publicly promised a good faith extension negotiation, and it turns out it was a farce. It's one thing if that happens now & then; it's another if that's 100% been the pattern without exception, since the latter can induce future holdouts and such. Crying wolf and all that. This above post misses the point of the discussion and further throws in straw-man arguments as though anyone has made the claim he's an elite safety or should be paid like one. No one has. Also he's not going to be 30 soon enough, in terms of age being a concern for the Jets. The day Maye turns 30 he would be well outside the time any and all guaranteed money has ended, so under no scenario would the team have been locked into him on his 30th birthday or beyond (not that there's some track record of safeties, who entered the league as older rookies, hitting a career wall instantly at age 30 like RBs or CBs in the first place). Turning 30 is solely an issue for Maye - not an issue for the Jets - because Maye may never fully reach free agency before then. As far as calling him "butt hurt" - and others have said worse - I'd say many here are pretty generous with other peoples' lost income. You can't seriously expect the player to like this, or even be satisfied with it. Since he can't and couldn't truly negotiate with other teams, and since the Jets aren't offering what would be his going rate, Maye's clearly losing millions off what'd be his one & only veteran contract of substance. - Straw-man... sure. The question I posed is Maye elite and in turn deserving of an elite contract? From your response it seems the answer is, no. As for a straw-man you say: 3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: The top 10 safeties either already make (or some, like Adams & at least 2-3 others, are on the cusp of getting the same) in the $14-15MM range. I don't recall any complaints in this thread about the Jets not anteing up $14MM/yr for Maye (let alone more than that). Only the top 6 average 14-15 per year. Number 7 down is <11.5 per. Maye is number 9 on the list. https://overthecap.com/position/safety/ Either way, is Maye a top 10 safety worthy of top ten money? (because he's making that right now with the tag) Is he a constant difference maker? I noticed you didn't really say much other than make an emotional plea based on the fact that he couldn't negotiate on an open market for his services and that he was the best player on a horrid team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 On 7/18/2021 at 11:01 AM, Jet Nut said: Theyre nothing alike. A player contract is multiyear and marries you to the player for the length of the deal until you can free yourself of the commitment. This can limit your roster moves down the road as player contracts are influenced by a moving cap. Non of this is like real estate. @kthisguy is totally right, though. The day that extension contract was offered, Maye was already under contract for 1 year $10.6MM. Douglas then made him a 3-year offer - in its effect, this is an extension for 2 years tagged to the end of the contract he already has - where the additional 2 years were at a rate under $7MM/year. The rental real estate market is actually a really good analogy here: Say you've got this one apartment for rent in a property you owned - let's call it the Jet Nut-house just to put a name on it (sorry I couldn't resist lol) - and the going rate in your area for comps is $1100/month. No it's not as nice as a $1500/month apartment but then you're not drawing a line in the sand trying to get $1500/mo rent anyway, and it's certainly nicer than a $400 apartment. If you felt, based on recent comparable rents in the area, that $1100/month was a fair amount would you take $800/month from a new tenant? Before you even answer the obvious "no" to that part-- how about if your existing tenant still had a guaranteed lease with 1 year remaining at $1060/month, and then approached you to say yes he's very interested in signing a 2-year lease extension...but at $670/month (also he could reduce it to only a 1-year extension at his own discretion if he decides he doesn't want to live there anymore). And Mr. Tenant portrayed this to you under the guise of, "But Mr. Jet Nut, it's still not that bad of an offer since it averages out to $800/month, and c'mon it's not like this is some $1500/month apartment you've got here." Would you accept that yourself? Then after you told the tenant where he could shove his "offer" would you continue to follow that tenant on Instagram? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 4 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said: - Straw-man... sure. The question I posed is Maye elite and in turn deserving of an elite contract? From your response it seems the answer is, no. As for a straw-man you say: Only the top 6 average 14-15 per year. Number 7 down is <11.5 per. Maye is number 9 on the list. https://overthecap.com/position/safety/ Either way, is Maye a top 10 safety worthy of top ten money? (because he's making that right now with the tag) Is he a constant difference maker? I noticed you didn't really say much other than make an emotional plea based on the fact that he couldn't negotiate on an open market for his services and that he was the best player on a horrid team. I outlined it earlier in the thread. On top of those 6, there are at least 3 more who are likely (if not clearly) getting extended in that range (e.g. Jamal Adams). It's a straw-man argument because you're arguing against a point no one's making (pretty much the definition of the term): no one is saying Maye's an elite safety, nor is anyone saying that he should be paid as an elite safety in the $14MM+ range. Also I never said he was the best player on a horrid team. I said he was named the team's MVP. Lastly, like with many positions at a given point in time, each of the top 10 safeties aren't always sitting with the top 10 safety contracts. Often a number of the top 10 safeties are still early into or in the middle of their rookie contracts, and when their time comes up they'll also make more than Maye would get even if he was truly able to shop himself around. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 31 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said: @kthisguy is totally right, though. The day that extension contract was offered, Maye was already under contract for 1 year $10.6MM. Douglas then made him a 3-year offer - in its effect, this is an extension for 2 years tagged to the end of the contract he already has - where the additional 2 years were at a rate under $7MM/year. The rental real estate market is actually a really good analogy here: Say you've got this one apartment in the for rent in a property you owned - let's call it the Jet Nut-house just to put a name on it (sorry I couldn't resist lol) - and the going rate in your area for comps is $1100/month. No it's not as nice as a $1500/month apartment but then you're not drawing a line in the sand trying to get $1500/mo rent anyway, and it's certainly nicer than a $400 apartment. If you felt, based on recent comparable rents in the area, that $1100/month was a fair amount would you take $800/month from a new tenant? Before you even answer the obvious "no" to that part-- how about if your existing tenant still had a guaranteed lease with 1 year remaining at $1060/month, and then approached you to say yes he's very interested in signing a 2-year lease extension...but at $670/month (also he could reduce it to only a 1-year extension at his own discretion if he decides he doesn't want to live there anymore). And Mr. Tenant and portrayed it to you under the guise of, "But Mr. Jet Nut, it's still not that bad of an offer since it averages out to $800/month, and c'mon it's not like this is some $1500/month apartment you've got here." Would you accept that yourself? Then after you told the tenant where he could shove his "offer" would you continue to follow that tenant on Instagram? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 20, 2021 Share Posted July 20, 2021 7 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: @kthisguy is totally right, though. The day that extension contract was offered, Maye was already under contract for 1 year $10.6MM. Douglas then made him a 3-year offer - in its effect, this is an extension for 2 years tagged to the end of the contract he already has - where the additional 2 years were at a rate under $7MM/year. The rental real estate market is actually a really good analogy here: Say you've got this one apartment in the for rent in a property you owned - let's call it the Jet Nut-house just to put a name on it (sorry I couldn't resist lol) - and the going rate in your area for comps is $1100/month. No it's not as nice as a $1500/month apartment but then you're not drawing a line in the sand trying to get $1500/mo rent anyway, and it's certainly nicer than a $400 apartment. If you felt, based on recent comparable rents in the area, that $1100/month was a fair amount would you take $800/month from a new tenant? Before you even answer the obvious "no" to that part-- how about if your existing tenant still had a guaranteed lease with 1 year remaining at $1060/month, and then approached you to say yes he's very interested in signing a 2-year lease extension...but at $670/month (also he could reduce it to only a 1-year extension at his own discretion if he decides he doesn't want to live there anymore). And Mr. Tenant and portrayed it to you under the guise of, "But Mr. Jet Nut, it's still not that bad of an offer since it averages out to $800/month, and c'mon it's not like this is some $1500/month apartment you've got here." Would you accept that yourself? Then after you told the tenant where he could shove his "offer" would you continue to follow that tenant on Instagram? The day a player signs and 5-10 years later can bring more money in return to the team then its one in the same. When a home is paid, its contract up, you own it and it becomes total equity. When a players contract is up he has to get a new contract or you lose him. That was my point, theyre nothing alike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sperm Edwards Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 18 hours ago, Jet Nut said: The day a player signs and 5-10 years later can bring more money in return to the team then its one in the same. When a home is paid, its contract up, you own it and it becomes total equity. When a players contract is up he has to get a new contract or you lose him. That was my point, theyre nothing alike The problem is you're looking at it as a purchase, not a rental. Teams rent players; they don't sign them to lifetime contracts. You sign a player to a term, from year x to year y, just like the rental market. Rental real estate market - which is still real estate - it an excellent analogy, as I outlined. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 21, 2021 Share Posted July 21, 2021 3 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said: The problem is you're looking at it as a purchase, not a rental. Teams rent players; they don't sign them to lifetime contracts. You sign a player to a term, from year x to year y, just like the rental market. Rental real estate market - which is still real estate - it an excellent analogy, as I outlined. Well in fairness one is more a rental/lease deal and a house isn’t. Which is why I don’t see them being similar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kthisguy Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 Well in fairness one is more a rental/lease deal and a house isn’t. Which is why I don’t see them being similarLol. This is still going on. Great analogy (sperm) on a prior post. Jetnut you are looking at the assets involved and misses the contract negotiation part of the deal. It really doesn’t matter the assets involved I used real estate as it a common contract people go into). So lets just call it a widget (throwback to ‘Back to School’) there is something that the seller wants to sell for X (highest price) and will to take Y (floor) and buyer want to pay A (lowest price) but willing to pay B (ceiling price). If X and B are too far apart there is a very short conversation and you never get to the meaningful contract negotiations. That is what happened in the extension talks and it is a common element in just about every situation when a contract is utilized. The TAG was what they were each willing to accept for 2021. (At or above Maye’s floor and at or below JD’s ceiling) Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted July 22, 2021 Share Posted July 22, 2021 7 minutes ago, kthisguy said: It really doesn’t matter the assets involved I used real estate as it a common contract people go into). So lets just call it a widget (throwback to ‘Back to School’) Tape recorders? The **** will kill us on the labor costs. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
football guy Posted July 28, 2021 Share Posted July 28, 2021 On 7/17/2021 at 6:08 PM, 32EBoozer said: Mogglez, what do you or @football guy hear about current rostered players on the fence or some trades in the making. The Jets are done making moves for a while unless someone gets hurt. If everyone stays healthy they'll trade a few of the fringe roster spot guys on the OL & DL. I expect that they'll look to acquire LB help (Kenny Young is the guy who they were rumored to be interested in) and possibly sign a CB and backup QB, but I don't expect any major moves on the horizon. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Albaniajet Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 With Maye we have maybe the 4th or 5th worst secondary in the NFL without Maye we have the worst secondary in the entire league and it’s not even close 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 7 minutes ago, Albaniajet said: With Maye we have maybe the 4th or 5th worst secondary in the NFL without Maye we have the worst secondary in the entire league and it’s not even close Guess with all the posts trashing the Jets draft and secondary its really Albanyjet? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet Nut Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe W. Namath Posted July 30, 2021 Share Posted July 30, 2021 16 minutes ago, Albaniajet said: With Maye we have maybe the 4th or 5th worst secondary in the NFL without Maye we have the worst secondary in the entire league and it’s not even close Maye, joyner and hall are all very good players. Put the pipe down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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