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I asked a Jets fan, and a Broncos fan if they were glad or mad that Tom Brady won a Super Bowl with the Bucs


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They both would rather have seen Belichick win another Super Bowl without Brady than seeing Brady win with the Bucs. I found that interesting because I was glad that Brady won in Tampa Bay because it likely pissed Belichick off. Or maybe it didn't, who the hell knows?

I'm sure that many Jets fans, and fans of any NFL team besides the Bucs and Patriots would have rather that neither Brady or Belichick win another game, let alone another Super Bowl. If you could change the course of history with the only two options being Brady wins a Super Bowl or Belichick wins a Super Bowl, which do you choose? I know that neither is the correct answer, but please play along. 

With so little happening now in the off-season, I find this to be an acceptable topic to pass the time. I HATE THIS TIME OF THE YEAR! I want football!

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I hate the Patriots, but I’m also sick of watching Brady getting all kinds of favors from referees. 
 

So to play the game, I would go with the option that would be most fair, ie not given by refs or other factors. 

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I created a thread about Belichick becoming exposed as a fraud without Brady months before the 2020 season began. 

I was called out for it. 90% of Jets fans were telling me it was all Bill Belichick. 

And it felt awesome to be proven right. 

Bill Belichick is a career loser without Brady and throughout 7.2 years of coaching without Brady? He's never sniffed a SB and has 2 winning seasons compared to 5 losing seasons; he's a fraud. 

I never hated Tom Brady like I never hated Michael Jordan but I feared Tom Brady like I feared Michael Jordan and I'll never hate on absolute greatness. 

Tom Brady winning a SB during the 1st year without Belichick and Belichick completely failing to make the playoffs without Brady was good enough for me. Bill Belichick is now exposed and like Barry Bonds and Pete Rose should never be ALLOWED into the H.O.F due to Spygate. 

 

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15 minutes ago, Embrace the Suck said:

I'd rather neither won, but Brady never ditched the Jets.

Exactly man and Belly was awful @ Cleveland (1 winning season and 4 below .500 seasons) and went 5-11 with Bledsoe in NE and his 2nd year was 0-2 with Bledsoe. And then Tom Brady was born and NE never looked back. 

Andy Reid is the greatest coach of All-Time imo and will pass both Don Shula and *Bill Belichick* before it's all said and done with because unlike Bill? Andy wins with EVERY SINGLE QB HE'S EVER COACHED from McNabb and Alex Smith to Mahomes it doesn't matter and he's won with like 4-5 other QBs too. 

Bill Belichick is the biggest coaching fraud and the most overrated coach of All-Time and he was also BLESSED with a Bill Parcells HOF Defense which is why he ran from NY and LeBron James/Kevin Durant ran to NE with an absolutely STACKED DEFENSE already waiting for him. 

Charlie Weis and Josh McDaniels deserve 100% of credit for Tom Brady and Bill Belichick a Defensive minded coach deserved 0% credit for Tom Brady. 

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1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

They both would rather have seen Belichick win another Super Bowl without Brady than seeing Brady win with the Bucs. I found that interesting because I was glad that Brady won in Tampa Bay because it likely pissed Belichick off. Or maybe it didn't, who the hell knows?

I'm sure that many Jets fans, and fans of any NFL team besides the Bucs and Patriots would have rather that neither Brady or Belichick win another game, let alone another Super Bowl. If you could change the course of history with the only two options being Brady wins a Super Bowl or Belichick wins a Super Bowl, which do you choose? I know that neither is the correct answer, but please play along. 

With so little happening now in the off-season, I find this to be an acceptable topic to pass the time. I HATE THIS TIME OF THE YEAR! I want football!

Next time, please mention how much Bill Belichick is a scumbag. 

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I don't like Brady but I guess I dislike him a lot less now that he's not with the Pats.  I've always despised Belichick and the Patriots.  They were lucky to step in dogs!t and get Tom Brady.  While I would have rather seen them both fail miserably after going separate ways I definitely prefer Brady winning in the NFC over Belichick winning a SB again with the Pats.

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Brady is an all time great player - top 3 to be specific. He is fully deserving of all of his rings. Still, I don't put him above two other players. So for him to win again irked me a bit because it makes the simplistic GOAT narrative louder, although it did also give me more respect for him and put him closer to the top than ever.

More importantly, I have far too many close friends and family-in-laws that are from MA and they're all uneducated swine who have made everything football related unbearable for most of my life given the pats 20 year run. So the fact that they all seamlessly bandwagoned over to the bucs last year and got yet another year of happiness from football is what grinds my gears the most. Bunch of fake-ass fair-weather know-nothing fans. My fb and insta feeds were filled with celebrations from pats fans on SB night. It was like the ******* twilight zone.  

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Nice thread OP while we're waiting for real football to start.

I was happy Brady won for a) it clarified that there was only 1 generational talent at NE and b) Brady never dissed the Jets any more than could be expected from a rival so to me that was all good.  (I did hate his smug little face at the time though)    

Hey although it hurt us over and over, we got to watch a generational talent at the top of his game....so taking the longer view it was one hell of a ride.  Now that he's left NE I no longer have a reason to hate.  

BB on the other hand yeah, fk him and the horse he rode in on.  

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47 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I created a thread about Belichick becoming exposed as a fraud without Brady months before the 2020 season began. 

I was called out for it. 90% of Jets fans were telling me it was all Bill Belichick. 

And it felt awesome to be proven right. 

Bill Belichick is a career loser without Brady and throughout 7.2 years of coaching without Brady? He's never sniffed a SB and has 2 winning seasons compared to 5 losing seasons; he's a fraud. 

I never hated Tom Brady like I never hated Michael Jordan but I feared Tom Brady like I feared Michael Jordan and I'll never hate on absolute greatness. 

Tom Brady winning a SB during the 1st year without Belichick and Belichick completely failing to make the playoffs without Brady was good enough for me. Bill Belichick is now exposed and like Barry Bonds and Pete Rose should never be ALLOWED into the H.O.F due to Spygate. 

 

This seems rather high.  Can you prove this amount?

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1 hour ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

They both would rather have seen Belichick win another Super Bowl without Brady than seeing Brady win with the Bucs. I found that interesting because I was glad that Brady won in Tampa Bay because it likely pissed Belichick off. Or maybe it didn't, who the hell knows?

I'm sure that many Jets fans, and fans of any NFL team besides the Bucs and Patriots would have rather that neither Brady or Belichick win another game, let alone another Super Bowl. If you could change the course of history with the only two options being Brady wins a Super Bowl or Belichick wins a Super Bowl, which do you choose? I know that neither is the correct answer, but please play along. 

With so little happening now in the off-season, I find this to be an acceptable topic to pass the time. I HATE THIS TIME OF THE YEAR! I want football!

One of my buds is a Bucs fan.  I rooted for Brady to win.  

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14 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Brady is an all time great player - top 3 to be specific. He is fully deserving of all of his rings. Still, I don't put him above two other players. So for him to win again irked me a bit because it makes the simplistic GOAT narrative louder, although it did also give me more respect for him and put him closer to the top than ever.

More importantly, I have far too many close friends and family-in-laws that are from MA and they're all uneducated swine who have made everything football related unbearable for most of my life given the pats 20 year run. So the fact that they all seamlessly bandwagoned over to the bucs last year and got yet another year of happiness from football is what grinds my gears the most. Bunch of fake-ass fair-weather know-nothing fans. My fb and insta feeds were filled with celebrations from pats fans on SB night. It was like the ******* twilight zone.  

If I'm guessing...Jim Brown and Jerry Rice.  IMO, he's overtaken Montana as the top QB.

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4 minutes ago, Jetscode1 said:

If I'm guessing...Jim Brown and Jerry Rice.  IMO, he's overtaken Montana as the top QB.

Damn, I LOVED Montana but you might be right.  

(LOL see below....I just quoted myself by mistake while trying to edit)

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Just now, LIJetsFan said:

Damn, I LOVED Montana but you might be right.   However diehards can still hang their hat on how much the NFL has changed regarding 007 on QB's and WR's back in the day.   

 

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45 minutes ago, greenwichjetfan said:

Brady is an all time great player - top 3 to be specific.

Obviously the records and super bowls pan this out.  But, I'm not so sure.

Brady has been historically lucky, and on historically good defenses.  In his last 3 Super Bowls combined, Brady's defenses have allowed 33 points on 32 drives.  Additionally, he's 2-0 in Super Bowls when leading the offense to 13 points or less.  Every other QB in NFL history is 0-25 under these circumstances.

This data is from prior to the 2020 season:

Over the course of his career, Brady's average starting field position averages out to 8th best in the league.  Rodgers is 15th, Brees is 17th, and Manning is 19.5.

Over the course of his career, in points per drive of the defenses, Brady's averaged 9th, Manning averaged 17th, Rodgers is 18th, and Brees's is 21st.  6 times is his career Brady's had a top 5 defense is points per drive, vs 4 times for Manning, Rodgers, and Brees combined.  If you look at it in terms of top 10, 13 of 18 seasons, Brady's had a top 10 defense in points per drive.

Defensive TDs: Brady's teams average 4.6 per year.  Manning 3.8, Rodgers 3.7, Brees, 2.8

Interestingly, opposing kickers have made 76% of FGs against Brady, whereas the other 3 are all over 80%.  Pats since 2001 have had the 2nd best FG% in the NFL, and the lowest FG% against over that same time.

As for playoffs, Brady gets worse by over 7 points in passer rating.  The other super bowl winners, Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw all improve.

Tuck Rule, Vinettari makes that kick, Winning AFCCG in 2000 despite 0 points on offense, Wins Super Bowl 36 despite on 13 points on offense, Carolina kicks ball out of bounds in late in Super Bowl, Marlon McCree picks off Brady w/ 6min left in AFCCG and then fumbles it back, Winning 2007 AFCCG despite 3INTs and 66 Passer rating, winning 2011 AFCCG despite 2 INTs and a 57.5 passer rating, Malcom Butler, The Falcons, Myles Jack down by contact, Dee Ford.

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Brady is the GOAT QB who plays in the other conference and has basically no impact on our franchise anymore. 

Meanwhile, NE still plays in our division . . . So I don't get why anyone would prefer to see BB win another SB without Brady over seeing Brady win more without BB. 

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21 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Obviously the records and super bowls pan this out.  But, I'm not so sure.

Brady has been historically lucky, and on historically good defenses.  In his last 3 Super Bowls combined, Brady's defenses have allowed 33 points on 32 drives.  Additionally, he's 2-0 in Super Bowls when leading the offense to 13 points or less.  Every other QB in NFL history is 0-25 under these circumstances.

This data is from prior to the 2020 season:

Over the course of his career, Brady's average starting field position averages out to 8th best in the league.  Rodgers is 15th, Brees is 17th, and Manning is 19.5.

Over the course of his career, in points per drive of the defenses, Brady's averaged 9th, Manning averaged 17th, Rodgers is 18th, and Brees's is 21st.  6 times is his career Brady's had a top 5 defense is points per drive, vs 4 times for Manning, Rodgers, and Brees combined.  If you look at it in terms of top 10, 13 of 18 seasons, Brady's had a top 10 defense in points per drive.

Defensive TDs: Brady's teams average 4.6 per year.  Manning 3.8, Rodgers 3.7, Brees, 2.8

Interestingly, opposing kickers have made 76% of FGs against Brady, whereas the other 3 are all over 80%.  Pats since 2001 have had the 2nd best FG% in the NFL, and the lowest FG% against over that same time.

As for playoffs, Brady gets worse by over 7 points in passer rating.  The other super bowl winners, Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw all improve.

Tuck Rule, Vinettari makes that kick, Winning AFCCG in 2000 despite 0 points on offense, Wins Super Bowl 36 despite on 13 points on offense, Carolina kicks ball out of bounds in late in Super Bowl, Marlon McCree picks off Brady w/ 6min left in AFCCG and then fumbles it back, Winning 2007 AFCCG despite 3INTs and 66 Passer rating, winning 2011 AFCCG despite 2 INTs and a 57.5 passer rating, Malcom Butler, The Falcons, Myles Jack down by contact, Dee Ford.

Bernie Sanders Applause GIF by Election 2016

Barack Obama Applause GIF by Obama

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Wanting Belichick to win with the Pats over Brady winning without them is bonkers to me.

That outcome essentially means the Pats dynasty rolls on and might not end for another 10 years. By contrast it currently looks like the Pats are pretty much done seriously contending for Super Bowls -- it's not even clear they're the 2nd best team in the AFC East on a go forward basis.

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3 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Wanting Belichick to win with the Pats over Brady winning without him is bonkers to me.

That outcome essentially means the Pats dynasty rolls on and might not end for another 10 years. By contrast it currently looks like the Pats are pretty much done seriously contending for Super Bowls -- it's not even clear they're the 2nd best team in the AFC East on a go forward basis.

This. 

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29 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

Brady is the GOAT QB who plays in the other conference and has basically no impact on our franchise anymore. 

Meanwhile, NE still plays in our division . . . So I don't get why anyone would prefer to see BB win another SB without Brady over seeing Brady win more without BB. 

This

Brady leaving New England and immediately winning another Super Bowl while the Pats couldn’t even reach .500 makes Belichick look even more like an overrated dickbag.

Brady is the greatest QB to ever step on a football field. We just had the misfortune of him playing in our division for 20 years.

Would anyone honestly be surprised if the Bucs won it all again this year? I sure as hell wouldn’t. And I wouldn’t mind if they did either.

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Was happy for Brady, atleast he seems to have somewhat of a heart, he is more himself since leaving the pats and always has been given a bad rap for bills cheating. Bill thew Brady under the bus, showed little respect to a guy that made the franchise. Bill has a turd for personality.

Also, rarely have I have seen ( if ever) a former teammate put sh*t on Brady, he seems to be loved in all locker rooms, with bill there seems to be more and more sh*t about him coming out from ex players.

 

 

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2 hours ago, dbatesman said:

I’ll always root against Brady, so the SB irked me, but Belichick is worse. If he spends the twilight of his career helming a series of 6-10 Bradyless squads, it would make me very happy

^^ this 

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Although if I really must choose, the answer is a simple one with qualifiers.

The Bucs get themselves another ring, but in the process with the expansion of both the regular season and # of playoff teams, bring it all under serious criticism when the Bucs back in with a glorious 6-11 record, thanks in no small part to the league's 32nd ranked offense in which Brady has such a horrifically awful season in every capacity, he quickly becomes the joke of the league.

The entire postseason is no different, as Brady posts a glorious 0.0 QB rating for the entirety of it, as their D single-handedly tears apart the opponents.

When the clock hits 0 and the Bucs get their ring, Bowles is carried off the field on the entire team's shoulders, both defense and offense, while Brady is left by himself, laying on the ground at midfield crying and flailing around, having clearly, and quite literally, both pissed and crapped himself during the game.

To be clear, while this was all happening, Beli and the Pats went 0-17.

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2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Obviously the records and super bowls pan this out.  But, I'm not so sure.

Brady has been historically lucky, and on historically good defenses.  In his last 3 Super Bowls combined, Brady's defenses have allowed 33 points on 32 drives.  Additionally, he's 2-0 in Super Bowls when leading the offense to 13 points or less.  Every other QB in NFL history is 0-25 under these circumstances.

This data is from prior to the 2020 season:

Over the course of his career, Brady's average starting field position averages out to 8th best in the league.  Rodgers is 15th, Brees is 17th, and Manning is 19.5.

Over the course of his career, in points per drive of the defenses, Brady's averaged 9th, Manning averaged 17th, Rodgers is 18th, and Brees's is 21st.  6 times is his career Brady's had a top 5 defense is points per drive, vs 4 times for Manning, Rodgers, and Brees combined.  If you look at it in terms of top 10, 13 of 18 seasons, Brady's had a top 10 defense in points per drive.

Defensive TDs: Brady's teams average 4.6 per year.  Manning 3.8, Rodgers 3.7, Brees, 2.8

Interestingly, opposing kickers have made 76% of FGs against Brady, whereas the other 3 are all over 80%.  Pats since 2001 have had the 2nd best FG% in the NFL, and the lowest FG% against over that same time.

As for playoffs, Brady gets worse by over 7 points in passer rating.  The other super bowl winners, Montana, Aikman, Bradshaw all improve.

Tuck Rule, Vinettari makes that kick, Winning AFCCG in 2000 despite 0 points on offense, Wins Super Bowl 36 despite on 13 points on offense, Carolina kicks ball out of bounds in late in Super Bowl, Marlon McCree picks off Brady w/ 6min left in AFCCG and then fumbles it back, Winning 2007 AFCCG despite 3INTs and 66 Passer rating, winning 2011 AFCCG despite 2 INTs and a 57.5 passer rating, Malcom Butler, The Falcons, Myles Jack down by contact, Dee Ford.

Wholeheartedly agree with all of this. I have additional datapoints that point to why Brady is not the GOAT QB, let along GOAT player. For your final paragraph - I have a post somewhere on JN during the 2019 offseason that went into detail of literally every single Brady playoff game and whether his contributions were the determining factor in the win or loss. If I were to add to that list for the last two seasons, I'd talk about (1) his awful performance against the Titans in 2020, and (2) the fact that if it weren't for an all time great defensive playoff run in 2021, he wouldn't even have had a chance to play in the SB given his three second half INTs in the NFC championship game! 

I just don't have it in me to argue it anymore though. I did so for a long time and have continuously been bashed for it, and it's called my perspective on other non football things into question too with my IRL friends and family (all degenerate massholes, but still). So, I just let the uneducated and simplistic narrative run free at this point.

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