Fatso Joe's 2020 draft haul past Becton

[JiFapono 155,487]

Mims, Zuniga, Perrine and Hall will all be significant contributors to this Football team if they can stay healthy.   They're all next level talents who actually have next level athletic profiles.  Which is rare for this team.  We love taking the projects/non-athlete, high motor, loves Football type dudes that never pan out. 

Judging this groups rookie seasons playing in the worst environment in the entire NFL during a wonky covid impacted season, I just think is a little too short sided.  I dont think you need "3 full years" to judge a draft class anymore but last year certainly isnt the final chapter of these guys careers.  I really dont think people realize just how much stank Gase put on this team.  I would expect a lot of bounce back type years simply getting out of his leadership, let alone having a real offseason to get the necessary reps. 

[#27TheDominator 212,453]

1 hour ago, choon328 said:

Did a little research...

From 2010-2017 the Baltimore Ravens have drafted 53 players from Rounds 3-7. Only 4 of those players went on to start a majority of their games on their Rookie contracts. Pernell McPhee, Brandon Williams, Za'Darius Smith and Matt Judon.

There were a lot of players who contributed to the team over the years but did not start consistently. There weren't too many players besides the 4 I mentioned that actually finished their first contract with the Ravens.  There were some players who did become starters AFTER they left the Ravens for their 2nd contracts. 

That's a 7.5 % rate for them on finding a starter in rounds 3-7. This is coming from one of the most decorated drafting teams in recent history. 

I don't disagree, but devil's advocate 

The Ravens have a solid roster.  Breaking into their starting lineup is not easy.  Much easier to start on the Jets where Mims had to beat out Jeff and Vyncint Smith and Josh Malone, Hall had to beat out Arthur Maulet and the ghost of Pierre Desir,  Clarke was behind Van Roten and Lewis.  Not exactly murderer's row ahead of these guys.  Perine lost reps to Ty Johnson and Josh Adams.

Zuniga is an interesting one because I think he was listed behind Anderson and Shephard, but I thought he would have had an easy route to OLB instead of Langi, Basham and/or Jenkins.  I had hoped the switch to 3-4 might help him, but who knows? 

[choon328 6,630]

13 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I don't disagree, but devil's advocate 

The Ravens have a solid roster.  Breaking into their starting lineup is not easy.  Much easier to start on the Jets where Mims had to beat out Jeff and Vyncint Smith and Josh Malone, Hall had to beat out Arthur Maulet and the ghost of Pierre Desir,  Clarke was behind Van Roten and Lewis.  Not exactly murderer's row ahead of these guys.  Perine lost reps to Ty Johnson and Josh Adams.

Zuniga is an interesting one because I think he was listed behind Anderson and Shephard, but I thought he would have had an easy route to OLB instead of Langi, Basham and/or Jenkins.  I had hoped the switch to 3-4 might help him, but who knows? 

You guys will make excuses after excuse. This is not about breaking into their starting lineup as a rookie, it's about becoming a starter at all during the length of their Rookie contract. Only 4 players became full time starters at any point during their Rookie contracts from 2010-2017. Judging these guys after 1 year in which they had 0 off-season and no pre season games is ridiculous. 

The narrative really should be that the top 2 picks from 2020 started every game they played in except 1. The guys from round 3 on rarely start as a rookie and rarely ever become starters. 

Oh and Zuniga is not an OLB. He always projected as a rush DE. I think you will see a nice jump from him.

[peebag 8,504]

3 hours ago, choon328 said:

Did a little research...

From 2010-2017 the Baltimore Ravens have drafted 53 players from Rounds 3-7. Only 4 of those players went on to start a majority of their games on their Rookie contracts. Pernell McPhee, Brandon Williams, Za'Darius Smith and Matt Judon.

There were a lot of players who contributed to the team over the years but did not start consistently. There weren't too many players besides the 4 I mentioned that actually finished their first contract with the Ravens.  There were some players who did become starters AFTER they left the Ravens for their 2nd contracts. 

That's a 7.5 % rate for them on finding a starter in rounds 3-7. This is coming from one of the most decorated drafting teams in recent history. 

Great post, thx!

[#27TheDominator 212,453]

2 hours ago, choon328 said:

You guys will make excuses after excuse. This is not about breaking into their starting lineup as a rookie, it's about becoming a starter at all during the length of their Rookie contract. Only 4 players became full time starters at any point during their Rookie contracts from 2010-2017. Judging these guys after 1 year in which they had 0 off-season and no pre season games is ridiculous. 

The narrative really should be that the top 2 picks from 2020 started every game they played in except 1. The guys from round 3 on rarely start as a rookie and rarely ever become starters. 

Oh and Zuniga is not an OLB. He always projected as a rush DE. I think you will see a nice jump from him.

"You guys"  Ha.  That's a good one. 

My point is valid.  As I said, I agreed with your post, but there is a difference between looking at the Ravens and looking at the Jets.  Compare this draft with Idzik's 2013.  He had five starters in what was not a particularly good draft.  I am not judging 2020 on last year's performances and I hope tha.t these guys turn out.  I understand that mid to later round picks are for depth.

How did you rate a guy like Alex Lewis?   He was their 4th in 2016.  He missed 2017 with an injury but started 18 games overand 2018.

[DetroitRed 2,322]

Bryce Hall is starting this year, if some of you missed that. And he has a chance to be a nice player.  Not bad for the late rounds.

 

the rest of the draft can be critiqued after a couple more years. Nobody knows at this point 

[CanadaSteve 6,141]

14 hours ago, hmhertz said:

Denzel Mims	WR	Baylor
	3	3	4	68	Ashtyn Davis	DB	California
	4	3	15	79	Jabari Zuniga	DE	Florida
	5	4	14	120	Lamical Perine	RB	Florida
	6	4	19	125	James Morgan	QB	Florida International
	7	4	23	129	Cameron Clark	G	Charlotte
	8	5	12	158	Bryce Hall	DB	Virginia
	9	6	12	191	Braden Mann	P	Texas A&M

So far his best pick is a good tackling punter

 

Jesus, another genius armchair GM who for good reason isn't a GM.

Can't there be a playground these children can all go play at so we don't have to listen to them?

[rangerous 4,659]

last season was just one of those really off years.  those drafted players had no real chance of show casing any skills they had given the way gase ran the team.  i suspect not all of douglas' draft choices from last season will pan out but three, becton, mims and mann made good to very good contributions and it looks like hall and davis will too.  that just leaves morgan, zuniga and clark.  we'll see soon enough if these guys are keepers.

[varjet 4,364]

I have gone on the record as negative on JD's first draft.  But I think there are two other ways of looking at this.

• It was not a great draft.  I read an article about how JD's 2020 draft basically followed one of the leading draft guides  in terms of value.  So many draft experts thought it was spot on in terms of selecting perceived value at each spot.  But a good GM/scouting department needs to be better than a draft guide (although if Mac and Idzik followed the draft guides, they may be still employed).
• It is hard for a scouting staff to work in a vacuum.  They need the input and direction from the coaching staff.  Gase' staff added nothing.  In that vacuum, JD was shooting in the dark.  It appears that his last 2021 was much more purposeful.

But I am not optimistic about many of these players.   

[thebuzzardman 2,304]

I'm more annoyed at the formatting of the table, than anything

[NYJ1 2,345]

12 hours ago, Bronxville Jets Fan said:

Bryce Hall was a solid pick.

He look that way so far, although it is a small sample size.....

[Bruce Harper 4,834]

18 hours ago, hmhertz said:

Denzel Mims	WR	Baylor
	3	3	4	68	Ashtyn Davis	DB	California
	4	3	15	79	Jabari Zuniga	DE	Florida
	5	4	14	120	Lamical Perine	RB	Florida
	6	4	19	125	James Morgan	QB	Florida International
	7	4	23	129	Cameron Clark	G	Charlotte
	8	5	12	158	Bryce Hall	DB	Virginia
	9	6	12	191	Braden Mann	P	Texas A&M

So far his best pick is a good tackling punter

 

[playtowinthegame 7,541]

 

[Maynard13 1,787]

On 7/29/2021 at 12:47 AM, MR.GANGGREEN28 said:

I mean he was able to find a starting QB in the 4th round

From the looks of it, he's still there in the 4th round.

[DetroitRed 2,322]

On 7/29/2021 at 12:26 AM, hmhertz said:

Denzel Mims	WR	Baylor
	3	3	4	68	Ashtyn Davis	DB	California
	4	3	15	79	Jabari Zuniga	DE	Florida
	5	4	14	120	Lamical Perine	RB	Florida
	6	4	19	125	James Morgan	QB	Florida International
	7	4	23	129	Cameron Clark	G	Charlotte
	8	5	12	158	Bryce Hall	DB	Virginia
	9	6	12	191	Braden Mann	P	Texas A&M

So far his best pick is a good tackling punter

 

What’s the record for thumbs down ?  

[Biggs 12,322]

On 7/29/2021 at 7:07 AM, choon328 said:

A successful pick from Rounds 3-7 on is a depth player with special teams ability. You guys who think you're going to find starters in those rounds each and every year are dreaming. There is about a 20-25% chance of finding a starter in rounds 3-7 based on 20 years of history. Most of those picks in those rounds will never make it to a 2nd contract or finish their first contract.

That means if the majority of them can contribute at some level on GameDay and 1 of them becomes a starter (Hall?) that means it's been a successful back end of the draft.  It'a going to take more then one Covid offseason/season to judge the 2020 rookies.

Agreed unless you're fielding the worst team in the NFL.  In that case guys from round 3 to 7 should be starting.  

Where not talking about guys not starting on an averge NFL team were talking about the 2020 NY Jets.  We fielded a team last year where many of the starters wouldn't be on NFL rosters as special team players.  

[Albaniajet 777]

On 7/29/2021 at 8:15 AM, The Crusher said:

Weight! Calling someone FAT is bad? That’s some heavy sh*t right there. 

Joe D is Phat with a PH brutha

[Albaniajet 777]

Our secondary is really bad.  Sorry but JD needs to take the hit

[SAR I 16,417]

On 7/29/2021 at 9:16 AM, Flea Flicking Frank said:

why can't our GM's take all good players like other GM's do?

Because this one likes to trade down which is stupid. 

SAR I

[SAR I 16,417]

13 hours ago, Albaniajet said:

Our secondary is really bad.  Sorry but JD needs to take the hit

No secondary, no kicker, and a quarterback who looks 5’4” 120. 

The problem with accumulating draft picks is that it gives you even more ways to suck.  

SAR I

[The Crusher 230,323]

56 minutes ago, SAR I said:

No secondary, no kicker, and a quarterback who looks 5’4” 120. 

The problem with accumulating draft picks is that it gives you even more ways to suck.  

SAR I

I thought defense ruled the day today? Kicker? Good grief. Yes, too bad Zach didn’t look 6’4” like Hackenburgh, prolly be fine then.  
 

The problem with accumulation  of drafts picks is eventually you have to hit on then. So far Joe seems to be struggling with that. But still time, early returns kinda blow Joe. 

[SAR I 16,417]

2 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I thought defense ruled the day today? Kicker? Good grief. Yes, too bad Zach didn’t look 6’4” like Hackenburgh, prolly be fine then.  

The problem with accumulation  of drafts picks is eventually you have to hit on then. So far Joe seems to be struggling with that. But still time, early returns kinda blow Joe. 

I am on my way to Florham Park and will provide my in-depth observations shortly.

SAR I

[kevinc855 4,541]

On 7/29/2021 at 9:19 AM, JiFapono said:

Mims, Zuniga, Perrine and Hall will all be significant contributors to this Football team if they can stay healthy.   They're all next level talents who actually have next level athletic profiles.  Which is rare for this team.  We love taking the projects/non-athlete, high motor, loves Football type dudes that never pan out. 

Judging this groups rookie seasons playing in the worst environment in the entire NFL during a wonky covid impacted season, I just think is a little too short sided.  I dont think you need "3 full years" to judge a draft class anymore but last year certainly isnt the final chapter of these guys careers.  I really dont think people realize just how much stank Gase put on this team.  I would expect a lot of bounce back type years simply getting out of his leadership, let alone having a real offseason to get the necessary reps. 

Yea because you all were giving Mac 3 years before judging his picks

[The Crusher 230,323]

35 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I am on my way to Florham Park and will provide my in-depth observations shortly.

SAR I

Excellent, make sure you let me know how Zach’s timepiece coordinates with his shorts and socks! 

[CSNY 633]

4 hours ago, SAR I said:

Because this one likes to trade down which is stupid. 

SAR I

Or he likes to accumulate picks so he can trade up ala Vera - Tucker 

[ncjetman 231]

i already commented on this post but feel compelled to add that reading this title every time i come to the site really bothers me - rude people bother me and hmhertz is a rude poster - delete this post ban me whatever i just find title offensive - as yes it will eventually drop off top of board but so very unnecessary- we should all expect better from ourselves and others


Sent from my iPad using JetNation.com mobile app

[varjet 4,364]

Here is another way to look at it-the value in the back of a mediocre 2020 draft was in the OL and WR.  The Jets had no offensive coaching to help guide those draft picks, identify for system, etc.   So JD essentially just followed the manual.  

[JiFapono 155,487]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

Yea because you all were giving Mac 3 years before judging his picks

I literally said, in the post you quoted, "I dont think you need to give players 3 years before judging them"...however, the combination of Gase and Covid are factors you cant ignore.