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2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Buffalo GDP = ~50-70 billion

Austin GDP = ~140-325 billion

Buffalo Population = ~260 thousand

Austin Population = ~2.3 million

(All stats courtesy of ye ol' wikipedia)

Buffalo is "Old America", Austin is "New America".

Many folks don't seem to understand that the old "Big cities" aren't all so big anymore, and that new cities are often now vastly bigger/wealthier/more viable for pro sports teams.

To put things in perspective, the Richmond/Hampton Roads Region here in VA has a population of ~3 million, and an economy about 3-4 times larger than Buffalo.

If we were assigning sports teams to cities today, like a draft, and it was in any way based on economy/population, places like Buffalo would never even get a sniff of any pro teams.  I think folks would be surprised who would get teams in such a hypothetical scenario, lol.

Jacksonville metro area is projected over 1.5 million now...they literally give away tickets and cant fill the stadium.

The loyalty in Buffalo is amazing, dont discount it because Austin has alot of 35 year old Hipsters

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Call their bluff and tell them to f off. There should be no negotiation in the NFL these guys make billions if they want  new stadium etc then lay out the cash and build it, you know the old fash

I don’t like seeing any fan base lose their team but those maniacs in Buffalo might burn down that inbred city if this was actually to happen 

"So, here's the deal tiny, Middle class Blue Collar,  Rust Belt City....all of your industry shut down, the economy has been a locked down, stagnant mess, many of you are living on soon to expire Fede

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26 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

60 million for a HS stadium our HS stadium was at most 30k. But we’re talking here about a couple of billion. And Pegula’s got the money. You’d assume Texas would give them all kinds of tax incentives. These rich oil billionaires some of them might be willing to kick in but hard to believe they would do it for nothing. Esp for a guy like Pegula who like them is super rich. In terms of the politics the state gov is highly conservative but Austin is progressive. 

San Antonio mayor still thinks we get a team within 10 years.  See https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/22/mayor-thinks-san-antonio-will-have-an-nfl-team-by-the-end-of-the-decade/

I'd suggest it will probably happen but somewhere between SA and Austin to maximize the growing population trends (SA -= 7th largest city in U.S. and Austin = 11th) and the corporate offices in of both communities.  Tesla, Apple, Google and Samsung are just a few of the Big companies who have either moved here or will within the next few years.  Look at some of the tax rebates (100% in some cases) Texas gave to these companies.  https://www.kvue.com/article/money/economy/boomtown-2040/austin-travis-county-businesses-incentives-samsung-tesla-apple/269-f83ff2f3-56a3-439f-8194-bdb4f7ad1ad3

The NFL is coming to the area.  Whether it's the Bills or not remains to be seen but the eventually an NFL owner will take the plunge to capitalize on the potential here.  

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47 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Jacksonville metro area is projected over 1.5 million now...they literally give away tickets and cant fill the stadium.

The loyalty in Buffalo is amazing, dont discount it because Austin has alot of 35 year old Hipsters

The loyalty of 250K people still isn't necessarily worth more than the passive disinterest of 3 million.

I'm not advocating for them to move, as I've said, I am a supporter of "move if you must, but you leave the name and history behind" rules.

But some folks do need to realize this isn't the 1950's.  The U.S. has changed, and where we live and make our money has changed.

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The loyalty of 250K people still isn't necessarily worth more than the passive disinterest of 3 million.

I'm not advocating for them to move, as I've said, I am a supporter of "move if you must, but you leave the name and history behind" rules.

But some folks do need to realize this isn't the 1950's.  The U.S. has changed, and where we live and make our money has changed.

Sure but there is something to say about “football towns” and non football towns. Austin be a gamble for an nfl team. Buffalo is a safe bet 

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Just now, kevinc855 said:

Sure but there is something to say about “football towns” and non football towns. Austin be a gamble for an nfl team. Buffalo is a safe bet 

Define "Football Town" please.

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3 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Go to Green Bay, Buffalo or Philly 

Then go to la Austin or Jacksonville

tell me if you notice a difference 

That's not actually a definition.  

If that's the only way you can explain it, via vague "spot the differences" reasoning, you don't have much of an argument here.

 

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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's not actually a definition.  

If that's the only way you can explain it, via vague "spot the differences" reasoning, you don't have much of an argument here.

 

Ok pal you know what I’m driving at

If a person is willing to sit in the  freezing cold for hours you got a loyal customer for life 

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5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

That's not actually a definition.  

If that's the only way you can explain it, via vague "spot the differences" reasoning, you don't have much of an argument here.

In a football town, everyone knows the team exists. In a non-football town, a lot of people don't even remember that it does..

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12 minutes ago, jeremy2020 said:

In a football town, everyone knows the team exists. In a non-football town, a lot of people don't even remember that it does..

So by that logic, New York City is one of the worst "Football Towns" there is.

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4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

So by that logic, New York City is one of the worst "Football Towns" there is.

New York metro area has so many people it can be everything to everyone basically. Pittsburgh and Cleveland are football towns.

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16 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Ok pal you know what I’m driving at

If a person is willing to sit in the  freezing cold for hours you got a loyal customer for life 

I really don't. Don't get angry with me that you're seemingly incapable of providing a clear and cogent definition for your own argument.  

So far all we have is cold, bad weather cities are "football towns" because some fans will sit in that bad weather to watch games.

Seems like you think Austin, despite vastly more people and wealth, cannot support a footballl team because they lack bad weather......

And if that is your only defining characteristic, then no warm weather city can ever be a "football town". 

Dallas, for example, is (per your lone-provided-rule above) not a "football town", because their fans don't "sit in the  freezing cold for hours" to show their loyalty. 

As if that was all that mattered to a successful sports franchise.....

 

 

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1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I really don't. Don't get angry with me that you're seemingly incapable of providing a clear and cogent definition for your own argument.  

So far all we have is cold, bad weather cities are "football towns" because some fans will sit in that bad weather to watch games.

Seems like you think Austin, despite vastly more people and wealth, cannot support a footballl team because they lack bad weather......

And if that is your only defining characteristic, then no warm weather city can ever be a "football town". 

Dallas, for example, is (per your lone-provided-rule above) not a "football town", because their fans don't "sit in the  freezing cold for hours" to show their loyalty. 

As if that was all that mattered to a successful sports franchise.....

 

 

Football towns go beyond the NFL. Texas, Pennsylvania and Ohio are football states. 

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5 hours ago, Jetscode1 said:

San Antonio mayor still thinks we get a team within 10 years.  See https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2021/01/22/mayor-thinks-san-antonio-will-have-an-nfl-team-by-the-end-of-the-decade/

I'd suggest it will probably happen but somewhere between SA and Austin to maximize the growing population trends (SA -= 7th largest city in U.S. and Austin = 11th) and the corporate offices in of both communities.  Tesla, Apple, Google and Samsung are just a few of the Big companies who have either moved here or will within the next few years.  Look at some of the tax rebates (100% in some cases) Texas gave to these companies.  https://www.kvue.com/article/money/economy/boomtown-2040/austin-travis-county-businesses-incentives-samsung-tesla-apple/269-f83ff2f3-56a3-439f-8194-bdb4f7ad1ad3

The NFL is coming to the area.  Whether it's the Bills or not remains to be seen but the eventually an NFL owner will take the plunge to capitalize on the potential here.  

Fellow SA area fan.  High five. 

This one is probably a ploy to get a stadium, just like the Raiders used SA to get the stadium they wanted.   I agree that the market is growing too big to ignore, weather Jerry Jones wants it or not. 

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On 8/4/2021 at 1:09 PM, Warfish said:

So by that logic, New York City is one of the worst "Football Towns" there is.

New York is obviously an extreme example because of it's massive size, the number of industries that are centered here, and the number of transplants but on a comparable basis I don't think New York is really that great of a football town.

Much, much better baseball and basketball town. 

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Part of the potential issue for Austin isn't that it's not a "football town" as much as that it's a football town that already has a football team.

The idea that the Austin Bills would ever be 10% as important as the Texas Longhorns in Austin is laughable. It would be like the Nets getting three superstars and contending for titles in NYC -- no one even cares.

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On 8/4/2021 at 9:38 AM, Warfish said:

Define "Football Town" please.

The definition of a football town used to be a diehard fanbase regardless of size.  Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Cowboys have long traditions in the NFL and with grassroots football in their communities at a high school level.  This doesnt matter anymore.  Its 2021 and what matters is what city will pay the owners the ungodly transfer fee to move there and can produce tv rights without hopefully cannibalising a fanbase from another team.  Las Vegas is not a football town by any definition, but they sold out their PSL's faster than the Jets or Giants did.  If a city is wealthy enough to offer to build a stadium and give tax incentives than that is the definition of a football town these days.  The more they give the bigger a football town they are in the NFL's eyes.

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27 minutes ago, TokyoJetsFan said:

The definition of a football town used to be a diehard fanbase regardless of size.  Green Bay, Pittsburgh, Cowboys have long traditions in the NFL and with grassroots football in their communities at a high school level.  This doesnt matter anymore.  Its 2021 and what matters is what city will pay the owners the ungodly transfer fee to move there and can produce tv rights without hopefully cannibalising a fanbase from another team.  Las Vegas is not a football town by any definition, but they sold out their PSL's faster than the Jets or Giants did.  If a city is wealthy enough to offer to build a stadium and give tax incentives than that is the definition of a football town these days.  The more they give the bigger a football town they are in the NFL's eyes.

Distasteful as this may be, it is accurate.

Old "football towns", i.e. rust-belt cities full of factory working men eating cheap bratwursts and drinking Genesee Cream Ale by the case in the parking lot before the big game, like so many things, is an idealized concept from decades ago that in reality died a long time ago.

"Football Towns" are whomever will pay the most to build a modern multi-purpose luxury-box and amenity-filled stadium, can support a team-specific sports network (for baseball esp.), has the biggest possible TV market, can maximize stadium naming rights and advertising contracts, and can sell the most luxury box suites to corporate interests who will rarely attend, and for which cities can plan redevelopment efforts of defunct, destitute, urban blighted downtowns of old but still large cities, or support the growing new sparkling downtowns of "New America" cities like Austin.

The idea that football should be in small economy, small population, horrible TV market cities because of ideas like history or loyalty, outdated concepts in the real world, and honestly they were probably never reality in truth.

Die Hards are great.....if you have 3 million of them.  215 thousand doesn't get it done in 2021, sadly for some of our decayed old American cities, like Buffalo.

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On 8/2/2021 at 10:07 AM, Warfish said:

Naaa, the City doesn't own the players.  But IMO the City SHOULD own the history and the team name/mascot.

 

The players should all become free agents.  Reduce incentive for teams to jump around.

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On 8/5/2021 at 9:18 AM, freestater said:

It would be delicious for Buffalo to suffer all those years, then just as they get good...

Jake Gyllenhaal Reaction GIF by MOODMAN

I couldn't wish that on those passionate, loyal, diehard and absolutely crazed Bills fans of Buffalo. I just couldn't. They've never experienced a SB celebration but yet they'll still take off their shirts in -10 degree snowstorms and cheer for their favorite team.

Could you imagine the feelings we'd have if Woody moved us to either one of Texas or the UK and became the Texas/UK Jets? We'd quit football and would never watch again man. 

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On 8/4/2021 at 12:34 PM, Warfish said:

The loyalty of 250K people still isn't necessarily worth more than the passive disinterest of 3 million.

I'm not advocating for them to move, as I've said, I am a supporter of "move if you must, but you leave the name and history behind" rules.

But some folks do need to realize this isn't the 1950's.  The U.S. has changed, and where we live and make our money has changed.

He makes a good point about Jacksonville though.

What a disaster that has been.

Not sure if it’s been mentioned, but Jerry Jones would surely fight any team moving to Texas as well.

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1 hour ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I couldn't wish that on those passionate, loyal, diehard and absolutely crazed Bills fans of Buffalo. I just couldn't. They've never experienced a SB celebration but yet they'll still take off their shirts in -10 degree snowstorms and cheer for their favorite team.

Could you imagine the feelings we'd have if Woody moved us to either one of Texas or the UK and became the Texas/UK Jets? We'd quit football and would never watch again man. 

Then you've never been to Ralph Wilson Stadium. Those "people" are trash. I've watched them pour beer on a ten-year-old's head because he wore a Jets shirt. They'd even be mean to fins fans...like....

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21 minutes ago, freestater said:

Then you've never been to Ralph Wilson Stadium. Those "people" are trash. I've watched them pour beer on a ten-year-old's head because he wore a Jets shirt. They'd even be mean to fins fans...like....

Ok and Jets fans threw beer on a girl. 

100 fans etc doesn't speak for the entire fan base of us Jets fans who would NEVER do that disgusting crap to a girl. 

There are scumbags at every stadium man. I took my daughter to a Rays game here in St. Pete couple of weeks ago and a section of Yankee fans kept cursing and she's only 10 years old so we moved seats and the next group of Yankee fans were classy and telling my daughter she has an awesome baseball team to root for with her dad etc. All class. 

I respect Buffalo fans man and would never hope they lost their Football team.

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18 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

Ok and Jets fans threw beer on a girl. 

100 fans etc doesn't speak for the entire fan base of us Jets fans who would NEVER do that disgusting crap to a girl. 

There are scumbags at every stadium man. I took my daughter to a Rays game here in St. Pete couple of weeks ago and a section of Yankee fans kept cursing and she's only 10 years old so we moved seats and the next group of Yankee fans were classy and telling my daughter she has an awesome baseball team to root for with her dad etc. All class. 

I respect Buffalo fans man and would never hope they lost their Football team.

BiodegradableHatefulBrontosaurus-size_re

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21 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

BiodegradableHatefulBrontosaurus-size_re

O.k. cool. 

BUT WHAT POINT ARE YOU TRYING TO PROVE? That all Fan Bases have scumbag POS fans?

Jets fan PUNCHES an innocent girl IN THE FACE (below).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.www.complex.com/sports/2013/10/jets-fan-punches-female-fan

Jets fans disrespected an innocent TEENAGER and then violently attacked the teenagers MOM and all because of a freaking Tom Brady sign? Disgusting (below).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nydailynews.com/news/rowdy-jets-fans-threw-beer-teen-punched-mom-tom-brady-sign-lawsuit-article-1.442317%3foutputType=amp

As a "Jets fan ritual" during halftime of the Jets’ home game against the Pittsburgh Steelers on Sunday, several hundred men lined one of Giants Stadium’s two pedestrian ramps at Gate D. They whistled and jumped up and down. Then they began an obscenity-laced chant, demanding that the few women in the gathering expose their breasts (below).

https://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/20/sports/football/20fans.html

Some of our fans are so disgusting to the point of once refusing to sell BEER @ Giants stadium (below)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/12/30/jets-wont-sell-alcohol-in-last-game-at-giants-stadium/amp/

So what's really your point of trying to bash Buffalo fans?

Do you think that these examples of a couple scumbag Jets fans speak for us all? And define us all as an overall classy fan base?

Not me. Because I'm raised by a flock of amazing woman, I'm a loving husband who would never and could never put my hands on a girl, an amazing 10 year old daughter who I'd attempt to murder for if a man ever threw beer on her during a Football or Baseball game etc.

I'm sorry but Buffalo has a loyal fans base. A diehard fan base. A passionate fan base. And just like us Jets fans also a longtime suffering fan base. And no amount of videos you show me can ever change my opinion.

Unfortunately every fan base has a couple of scumbag drunks but what about all the hard working Bills fans who pack the stadium every weekend as good ppl? I'm sorry but I could never wish for those guys to lose their favorite Football team to TEXAS and why not? Because I know the feelings it'll give us Jets fans if Woody ever moved us to the UK. I'd be heartbroken. JN would probably shut down and none of us would ever watch Football again. We'd all truthfully devastated and that's because we've loved our favorite Football team since our childhood days.

And I couldn't wish that on my worst enemy. 

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On 8/4/2021 at 9:41 AM, Warfish said:

Buffalo Population = ~260 thousand

Austin Population = ~2.3 million

Lol...you know you compared the Buffalo City population to the Austin Metro population, right?

City Population:

Buffalo: ~261k
Austin: ~979k

Metro Population:

Buffalo: ~1.126 million
Austin: ~2.295 million

And Buffalo's metro population don't count the 450k in the Niagara Region of Ontario(Niagara Falls, St Catharines, Welland etc) which would be included if not for the border. 15% of the Bills fans on gameday come from across the border.

Not to mention farther up in the Greater Toronto Area, though the number of Bills fan aren't as high up there. 

 

 

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The Bills should cut a deal with the Iroquois Nation (maybe the Seneca Tribe), build the stadium on their land with exits off Rt 90 on their land and screw NY State out of all the tax revenue.

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1 hour ago, playtowinthegame said:

I would LOVE it if the Bills left for a monster new stadium in Austin, Texas.

No more Bills being the game that gets selected over the Jets by my local affiliates. 

J ..E.. T.. S...JETS JETS JETS!

Well if the Bills move to Texas they'll no longer be within our AFC East Division and that'll absolutely stink. Because they're one of the NFL teams who've never won a SB. 

And just our luck they'll be a complete division overhaul and a storied NFL Franchise such as the Pittsburgh Steelers would join the AFC East. Or something crazy like that.

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