Training camp 8/2 - practice updates

[Dunnie]

KRL said today was “tough sledding” for Zach.  Many other reporters said it wasn’t a good day.  An INT is an INT.  The most generous description of it was “bad throw that was lobbed up for grabs. Rookie mistake”.  Based on everything I read, I’m making the observation that he struggled.  It’s ok for him to struggle.  It’s early August and he’s a rookie.  Other defenses can be made for the other guys.  That being said, spinning tough days into good days, for any player, is spin.  Period.  Doing it while making fun of other players we were once tied to reeks of clownish insecurity.

This is a non story .. as you said there will be great days and tough days

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[Green Ghost]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

So it’s our fault Darnold failed.  Got it.

You don’t “got” anything, Bub.

The way you talked Darnold up for 2 1/2 years after he was drafted, he’d be All NFL right now if that was how this worked.
You hedged your bet with him going into last season, then abandoned ship mid year.

 

[Mogglez]

1 minute ago, Dunnie said:

This is a non story .. as you said there will be great days and tough days

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Never intended for it to sound otherwise.  My point was don’t make “rules for thee, but not for me” when it comes to describing a player’s performances on the day.

Zach struggled today.  Sam and Trevor, seemingly, struggled today as well.  No “yeah but” about it.  Stones in glass houses.  That’s all.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

You don’t “got” anything, Bub.

The way you talked Darnold up for 2 1/2 years after he was drafted, he’d be All NFL right now if that was how this worked.
You hedged your bet with him going into last season, then abandoned ship mid year.

 

Pretty sure you have me confused with someone else.  I abandoned ship on Darnold after week 1 last year.  I had my doubts after 2 seasons but still had hope entering year 3, that were quickly exterminated.  Same as many here.

So many talk a big game about QBs needing 3 years to be properly evaluated but rip on posters for being wrong about a QB for 2 years?  Laughable.  I’m not paid millions to be right on this stuff, unlike the GM who gave up three 2nd round picks to take the kid. 

[Green Ghost]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Pretty sure you have me confused with someone else.  I abandoned ship on Darnold after week 1 last year.  

?

[Green Ghost]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So many talk a big game about QBs needing 3 years to be properly evaluated but rip on posters for being wrong about a QB for 2 years?  Laughable.  I’m not paid millions to be right on this stuff, unlike the GM who gave up three 2nd round picks to take the kid. 

Josh Allen is grateful you don’t, that’s for sure.

Your never ending “Can’t ever learn accuracy” takes will live forever, won’t they?

[Jetsfan80]

24 minutes ago, Green Ghost said:

Josh Allen is grateful you don’t, that’s for sure.

Your never ending “Can’t ever learn accuracy” takes will live forever, won’t they?

I don’t think we’ve ever interacted once before today and yet you’re very well aware of my posting history.  So, yes, I guess they will live on?

The internet is a weird place. 

[MichaelScott]

12 hours ago, Drums said:

Q was getting similar treatment last offseason. Let's hope Mims comes out and proves everyone wrong. 

100%

Quinnen Williams most definitely taught me a lesson about judging draft picks too soon. I hated the pick when it was made. Another high draft pick on a 3-4 DE to replace the last (and THIRD in recent history) player we spent a high 1st rounder on at position made me sick. After he was largely an invisible nonfactor his entire rookie year (meanwhile Josh Allen looked like the real deal) I was even more pissed. I screamed about him being a bust most of that season. 

The way Q turned it on and stepped his game up from year 1 to 2 was amazing and, to my happiness, he appears to have undoubtedly proved me wrong on everything I said on draft night and throughout his first season. 

I think it's because we've had such an exceptionally high number of 1st round draft busts over the past 10+ years that when we see rookie struggle like Q did his first season, imo, a lot of us are quick with the bust label because we've just had so many players that looked that bad their first year and never got any better. Speaking for myself, I tend to forget that sometimes rookies just need a couple years to make the adjustment- Even first rounders. Also, someone please correct me if I'm wrong, I feel like our first round picks that ended up being really good pretty much all flashed that ability from the start. I can remember a ton of players that were as bad as Q year 1 and then stayed that bad but I can't remember any that struggled that much and turned out to be really good. 

Hearing Mims running with 3rd string behind Berrios is disappointing and my first instinct is to write him off when seeing him trending in the wrong direction from year 1 to 2. My first thought is great, another 2nd rd WR bust but what Q did has me pumping the breaks on tossing that lable out in the first week of his 1st training camp. 

Another thing to consider is that we finally have some decent depth at WR for the first time in forever and him running on 3rd team might say more about how we've built that position than it does about Mills. By this time in camp last year we already had at least 2 injuries at the position and our 1st team WRs were berrios and Jeff/Vyncent Smith ?

We still have Crowder, who's was our only legit WR last year. I think it's realistic to expect Davis to be at least a little more productive than Crowder (I don't think 1000yrds is unrealistic in a 17 game sched) . If Cole can be nearly as productive as Crowder, that isn't a horrible starting 3 at all and infinitely better than anything we've had. Then with Moore, Berrios and Mims too, that could be the deepest position on the roster. There is no super star #1 but that's some pretty solid depth 5-6 players deep. If Moore ends up being as good as he has flashed early on, Zach is going to have a couple good targets that seperate quick and let him get the ball out fast 

[MichaelScott]

12 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Bien-Aime's tweets are giving me a headache. 

 

Absolutely agree and it sucks that he's the one with the new guy energy and seems to tweet from practice twice as much as the other guys. I think they were so desperate to have a successful replacement for Metha and asafp they went with the guy that would be really... extra to stand out from the other guys but tbh by the end of minicamp I decided I don't like the guy.  it just came across as so... gimmickie maybe?

I want to read some intelligent comments and analysis of the practices I'm not able to watch. I don't enjoy reading takes from a professional reporter with tweets that look like they're written by a 13 year old in a group chat wit his fams?????? brah. 

[MichaelScott]

13 hours ago, Irish Jet said:

Another day. Another Moore masterclass.

Some players just seem different. 

 

 

13 hours ago, Lith said:

 

 

13 hours ago, Mogglez said:

 

 

13 hours ago, Lith said:

 

Can anyone remember the last time the Jets had a WR that flashed this kind of WOW from day 1? I can't. Moss? Coles? I'm trying to remember, did Moss play outside or was he primarily slot? I know Moore has been talked up as a slot guy but I wonder if he could do it on the outside. I really don't want them to always have to choose between Crowder or Moore. It means we would never have our top 3 WR on the field at the same time if they both can only go from the slot. If Crowder needs to sit than it is what it is but this has to see the field as much as possible imo

 

I fu*king LOVE this kid! He's got that Jamal Adams energy with the added benefit of being a genuinely likeable, good kid and not a complete jerkoff diva. Guys like him and Becton are exactly the kind of young energy that this time needs to rebuild itself with. 

[BornJetsFan1983]

Dn I forgot about Coles tough kid...always got open and caught short passes into traffic with Pennington. Always got up. . . It feel sgood to have wr s on the team

[MichaelScott]

14 hours ago, Greenbloodblitz said:

Funny I'm watching NFL Network, they show the Jets absolutely no love. Totally jocking Trevor Lawrence and Urban Meyer live and still haven't even mentioned three interceptions. All they talk about is Cam newton, Josh Allen, Trevor lawrence, Matthew Stafford, To a Tonga Ravioli, and Derrick Henry. Lol

But seriously when it comes to the Jets they briefly show the same generic clip of Zach Wilson just standing there? BS!

We were a 2 win team and have been trending towards the absolute bottom of the league over the past 4-5 seasons. I guess you could say the same about Jax for Wilson doesn't have anywhere near the hype or the national interest that Lawrence does. Remember, this kid is supposed to be Luck and Elway rolled into one long haired, Mr. Potato head looking QB. 

Realistically, the Jets haven't done anything to deserve national attention. Tbh the fact that they don't have negative stories about the NYJ circus running on a regular basis is a big step in the right direction. 

No one talked about the Browns until there was something to talk about. No one talked about the Bills until there was something to talk about. It's not an insult, it's the reality of the situation. Nationally, Most NFL fans would struggle to name 3 Jets besides Zach. Our time is coming 

[Dunnie]

Josh Allen is grateful you don’t, that’s for sure.
Your never ending “Can’t ever learn accuracy” takes will live forever, won’t they?

To be fair a kid becoming more accurate is an extreme outlier.

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[JustInFudge]

6 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I don’t think we’ve ever interacted once before today and yet you’re very well aware of my posting history.  So, yes, I guess they will live on?

The internet is a weird place. 

#Conqueringhero 

[kdels62]

I mean this is a completed pass and this is unique. I just hope it’s repeatable. He did this in college successfully so maybe it’s just a tool in his Arsenal.

[FidelioJet]

11 hours ago, Mike135 said:

Kinda makes ya wonder on Saturday, with the fans there the first time, if the D was told to take it easy.

Couldn't have their rookie QB miss first 2 practices, have a bad day (Friday), and then have a poor showing in front of fans.

This is one of the more silliest post I’ve ever seen on this board.  

[FidelioJet]

1 hour ago, Dunnie said:

To be fair a kid becoming more accurate is an extreme outlier.

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Thing is. He was never really inaccurate he had a low completion percentage on a sh*tty team in college.  
 

some people mistake completion percentage with accuracy. They’re two different things,

if you watched his film you wouldn’t have thought he was innacurate.  It’s why fans and some media knocked him but pro scouts knew better. 

[joewilly12]

[FidelioJet]

8 hours ago, Mogglez said:

Never intended for it to sound otherwise.  My point was don’t make “rules for thee, but not for me” when it comes to describing a player’s performances on the day.

Zach struggled today.  Sam and Trevor, seemingly, struggled today as well.  No “yeah but” about it.  Stones in glass houses.  That’s all.

Except he didn’t struggle. It was an average day.  Not special by any means but not bad either. For some reason you want to turn it into something it isn’t.  When discussing the numbers you continue to reference the int but conveniently leave out the 2 TD’s. 2 TD’s are 2 TD’s  why is that?

it’s okay to have average days. We don’t have to make our guys out to suck because young QB’s in other teams had sh*tty days. 
Zach will surely have sh*tty days and really bad weeks. I’ll be the first to admit when it happens. 

[kdels62]

9 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Thing is. He was never really inaccurate he had a low completion percentage on a sh*tty team in college.  
 

some people mistake completion percentage with accuracy. They’re two different things,

if you watched his film you wouldn’t have thought he was innacurate.  It’s why fans and some media knocked him but pro scouts knew better. 

He was inaccurate. He is an outlier. Outliers happen. Also he’s had 1 good year throwing the football, let’s not crown him yet.

[FidelioJet]

4 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

He was inaccurate. He is an outlier. Outliers happen. Also he’s had 1 good year throwing the football, let’s not crown him yet.

From everything I saw he wasn't inaccurate.   I watched all of his game film - I loved him coming out. 

His entire time he was throwing into very tight windows - his receivers were seemingly always covered.

I am sorry, I really don't want to be argumentative about that - it's just what I noticed when I saw him play.  I'm sure you saw something different, it happens all the time that two people see different things.

 

 

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

From everything I saw he wasn't inaccurate.   I watched all of his game film - I loved him coming out. 

His entire time he was throwing into very tight windows - his receivers were seemingly always covered.

I am sorry, I really don't want to be argumentative about that - it's just what I noticed when I saw him play.  I'm sure you saw something different, it happens all the time that two people see different things.

 

 

You don’t see inaccuracy here?

[FidelioJet]

24 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

You don’t see inaccuracy here?

So. I have to believe you were kidding here, right?

or we truly look at the same tape and come away with polar opposite views. 

To me, there were NO accuracy concerns on that tape at all.  I mean, it wasn't perfect but nothing that concerns me as being inaccurate. 
This just supports what I saw 4 years ago. He doesn’t have accuracy issue just an aggressive offense on a sh*tty team. 

I guess we’ll clearly have to agree to disagree at this point.  

[sec101row23]

13 hours ago, JiFapono said:

That's cool.  I might go to a Jags TC day with a client, just to see Urban and Trevor work on sh*t in practice.  I think the hardest thing for these guys, especially a rookie and double it for the QB who is a film junky like Zach, is that it's one thing to recognize it, talk about it, work thought it, write it on a white board but it's a whole new ball game to do it on the field and 90% of these practices is just that, working out something specific that you observed and worked on in meetings.  Hence my specific question about footwork.  It's also why you dont read a tweet like "Mims is working with the 3's" or "Trevor Lawrence threw 3 picks" - and make any conclusions. We have no idea what the plan was for that day.

Agreed.   You should go watch a practice if you can.   It’s definitely a different perspective.  For me, I prefer watching practices up close in person than I do going to games.   I learn more by watching them in drills and in walk through than actual games.  
 

Regarding “stats” in training camp, they are essentially useless.   A QB may have thrown 3 picks, but without context it means little.  The only position group that you can make clear 1st team, 2nd team distinctions is the O-line.   Those guys generally always play as a unit and for the most part coaches like to keep the units together during practice.  WRs, RBs TEs, are all interchangeable and dependent on personnel package and situation.   
 

 

[kdels62]

13 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So. I have to believe you were kidding here, right?

or we truly look at the same tape and come away with polar opposite views. 

To me, there were NO accuracy concerns on that tape at all.  I mean, it wasn't perfect but nothing that concerns me as being inaccurate. 
This just supports what I saw 4 years ago. He doesn’t have accuracy issue just an aggressive offense on a sh*tty team. 

I guess we’ll clearly have to agree to disagree at this point.  

3:17 errant throw high

3:40 throw behind his player

3:57 throw high and behind

4:22 overthrow on a roll out 

4:41 throw low and off target but player makes catch 

5:02 bails early throws behind his receiver and throws a pick 

5:29 overthrow out of bounds

5:56 overthrow 

6:30 pick on a screen 

I didn’t include throws that limited yac because I didn’t have to find subtle things when blatant things were there. 

That was Josh Allen in the league as well, nice moments and bad throws, huge inconsistency. We’ll see if he can replicate it but yeah his accuracy was a glaring issue.

 

 

 

 

[bgivs21]

Is there training camp today or are they off before the pads come on tomorrow?

[kdels62]

2 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

Is there training camp today or are they off before the pads come on tomorrow?

They’re in today. No fans but with pads 

[freestater]

1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

3:17 errant throw high

3:40 throw behind his player

3:57 throw high and behind

4:22 overthrow on a roll out 

4:41 throw low and off target but player makes catch 

5:02 bails early throws behind his receiver and throws a pick 

5:29 overthrow out of bounds

5:56 overthrow 

6:30 pick on a screen 

I didn’t include throws that limited yac because I didn’t have to find subtle things when blatant things were there. 

That was Josh Allen in the league as well, nice moments and bad throws, huge inconsistency. We’ll see if he can replicate it but yeah his accuracy was a glaring issue.

 

 

 

 

He reminds me of '09 era Sanchez. He is the one thing holding that team back. Stellar defense. Good o-line. Great run game, great skills positions. 

[faba]

How about we do not judge careers based on two days of practice hah

[Mogglez]

2 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

Except he didn’t struggle. It was an average day.  Not special by any means but not bad either. For some reason you want to turn it into something it isn’t.  When discussing the numbers you continue to reference the int but conveniently leave out the 2 TD’s. 2 TD’s are 2 TD’s  why is that?

it’s okay to have average days. We don’t have to make our guys out to suck because young QB’s in other teams had sh*tty days. 
Zach will surely have sh*tty days and really bad weeks. I’ll be the first to admit when it happens. 

If you want to spin it that, way, sure.

[section314]

2 minutes ago, Mogglez said:

If you want to spin it that, way, sure.

Been telling you for months, here comes James Morgan.?