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Training Camp Updates - Tues Aug 3


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Antonio Cromartie sees Robert Saleh coming up fast...

Jones reportedly not injured. Tough break for the Giants. 

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29 minutes ago, The Crusher said:

He certainly isn’t ready. Not sure how he could be. Yet, he has the rest of camp to get there. Me thinks we will be running a lot and  doing lots of quick hit play action stuff early. I hope they anticipated this and have planned accordingly for it. Certainly a monumental concern. 
 

This is the bigger concern. If Becton and the rest of the line can’t get it together then whatever plan they had for Zach is never going to come close to working. Hopefully these guys can at least run block early in the year. 

 

 

Whats he had 4 90 min practices?  

I'm not sure a vet would be ready today

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6 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

BTW. Really good TC overview and he also says it was an OK practice for Zach and that Lawson is unstoppable

 

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSH9wfWpHsG/

 

I am holding out hope that Becton is still really good and that Lawson is just that insanely good right now that he will make any LT look bad.  Week 1 he will be facing Greg Little (CAR).  Little is not a very good LT.  That should be entertaining.

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19 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Saleh just said they plan to "roll 8 deep on the DL, and all of them are going to play"

So who are the 8?

The givens: DE: Lawson, JFM. DT: Q, Rankins, Fatukasi. That leaves 3 spots for the following guys competing: Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Phillips, Curry, Zuniga, Marshall, Dwumfour, Rashed, Smart, Valoaga. Of those, I'd say Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Marshall, and Curry are the ones with realistic chances of making that 8, with Zuniga on the outside looking in. If I had to pick 3, it would be Huff, Blair, and Marshall.

I’d say Shepherd, Huff, Zuniga. Since Kyle Phillips and Vinny Curry are injured I expect them to use some funny roster moves to sneak them onto the roster. Either on PUP or Ir.

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47 minutes ago, JetPotato said:

So you're not quite ready to say we'll start 5-0?

No predictions.

I see 10 winnable games on the schedule and expect 8.

SAR I

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11 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

FWIW, I'm not calling this a mess.  Not at all.  I love JD's approach, I'm excited about Saleh, Lafleur seems like a great hire.  I'm excited about this regime.  Just nervous about the lack of support system around Zach, that's all.

Agreed, Hyperbole abounds here.  Good thing is they all have years in the NFL as coaches and some as players so, I'm all in.

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1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

First practice in pads and Wilson is not ready?  Really?  How can anyone possibly tell?  And what "Vet" would be better?  Foles?  What does trading future assets and starting some garbage vet (because that is all that is available) for 6 games do?  How does that make Wilson or the team better?  Is Lawrence sitting for 6-=8 games on that garbage team?  

 

1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

And a veteran from the trash that's out there will be better???????  How does that help the young receivers?  Who do you suggest they sign now?  Game plan to protect him and bring him along.  And let's wait for more than one live practice to decide this.

A guy like Foles, who's won a super bowl, could probably manage the position if Zach isn't able to get up to speed in time.  Might prevent development of some bad habits.  I think if he's good, he'll be good, and if he's bad, he'll be bad in the long run, but I do think there's an opportunity on a young team to develop bad habits and become overwhelmed making the process take longer.

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1 hour ago, MichaelScott said:

Just out of curiosity, what QB were you calling for them to draft this year? 

The one they felt was best.  Sorry I'm not going to fit tightly into the "you're just upset we didn't draft X" narrative.

I watched less than, say, 5 hours of college football this past year.  I wasn't blown away by Wilson in the bowl game, and certainly had my concerns about Fields.  Sort of felt Lawrence was overrated and watched like half of a Trey Lance Youtube reel.

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1 hour ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

This is a horrible idea on so many levels.  Wilson needs reps period. There is no point in giving reps away to a garbage veteran.  First this board thought the world would end because Wilson missed two practices and now they want to give away invaluable practice reps to a QB who will never be in the Jets plans past October??? And then you want the beat writers to be comparing the two in their daily meaningless tweet fests?  These training camp tweets are a pile of useless information.  A play here, a pass there.  It tells us nothing. QB competitions are bad for teams.  When you have 2 QBs you have none. Let the kid play and learn.

Indeed.  All those wasted Alex Smith reps!

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Interesting thread.  I'm of the opinion that if Zach is starting he should get the reps.  If while getting the reps it's clear he's not ready to be thrown in the fire he shouldn't be.  

The idea that he should get all the reps is only a good idea if he is actually mentally and physically ready to start.  It's sort of like throwing someone who can't swim into the deep end of the pool.  Theory on teaching changes if they sink to the bottom and don't come up.

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23 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I am holding out hope that Becton is still really good and that Lawson is just that insanely good right now that he will make any LT look bad.  Week 1 he will be facing Greg Little (CAR).  Little is not a very good LT.  That should be entertaining.

Yeah, Lawson probably be too exhausted after dogging Becton all training camp. Big Ticket? More like parking pass 

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25 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I am holding out hope that Becton is still really good and that Lawson is just that insanely good right now that he will make any LT look bad.  Week 1 he will be facing Greg Little (CAR).  Little is not a very good LT.  That should be entertaining.

Lawson was #1 in the NFL at some time to QB stat making him the most explosive off the ball in the entire NFL. I think it will help both develop. If I am Saleh I might consider giving Zach some reps without Lawson rushing though

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I have not hears one word about our center or guards, that is a good thing i guess.  Also, move lawson to the other side for a bit and see if he abuses moses or if bection is getting killed by next pass rusher up.

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New York Jets v New England Patriots
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Jets offensive lineman Cameron Clark was taken to a New Jersey hospital after injuring his neck during Tuesday’s practice.

Clark went down during team drills and was placed on a backboard by the team’s medical personnel before being loaded into an ambulance. Head coach Robert Saleh called off the remaining period of practice after Clark’s injury.

“I’m an optimist,” Saleh said, via Dennis Waszak Jr. of the Associated Press. “God willing, everything’s going to be just fine. We’ll wait for the evaluation. I thought our doctors were all available and tended to him pretty quickly and did a really nice job. Now, we wait.”

Panthers wide receiver Keith Kirkwood was also taken to the hospital after an injury in practice Thursday. Panthers head coach Matt Rhule said the news from doctors was positive about Kirkwood’s condition.

We’ll hope for the same regarding Clark, who did not play in any games last year after the Jets selected him in the fourth round of the draft.

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2 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

I have not hears one word about our center or guards, that is a good thing i guess.  Also, move lawson to the other side for a bit and see if he abuses moses or if bection is getting killed by next pass rusher up.

He did last week.

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With Williams and Lawson on the same side, it will force teams to either leave a RB/TE to help out the tackle with Lawson and double team Williams with a C & G. That should also leave Rankins, Foley, Huff, Curry and/or Franklin Myers with a single blocker. This could be the best front four since the early 80's. Let's hope this comes to fruition. 

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One thing I'm curious about - and if people who have been to the practices could chime in - is it doesn't seem like I've read a lot about Wilson moving around that much. Very possible I missed it - but I know play action/bootlegs/general ability for qbs to move and throw are cornerstones of this offense. I wonder if the staff is holding off on those and trying to get him more reps in the pocket? One positive on offense is it seems like we're running the ball well - hoping even if our pass protection isn't as good as we hoped at least we'll be able to mitigate it with a strong running game + tons of play action. 

 

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

I know people don’t like this guy because he is supposedly a Dolphin fan, but he gives a decent account of what is happening on the field.  He does seem to understand the game enough to be able to describe what’s going,on.  

I agree with you.  I think part of it is the paper he works for and the guy he replaced.  Most of the detail we get from these practices comes from DJ.  He is a Phins fan and that shows through every now and again, but so be it.  I think he does a good job ov covering these practices.  His observaitons in that article certainly seemed fair.

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

 

A guy like Foles, who's won a super bowl, could probably manage the position if Zach isn't able to get up to speed in time.  Might prevent development of some bad habits.  I think if he's good, he'll be good, and if he's bad, he'll be bad in the long run, but I do think there's an opportunity on a young team to develop bad habits and become overwhelmed making the process take longer.

And since that SB run, Foles was let go by Philadelphia, benched by Jacksonville after a few games and replaced by an unknown rookie (who was replaced by Lawrence), is now 3rd string in Chicago after failing to beat out Trubisky and after the Bears signed Dalton and drafted Fields, and Indy has zero interest in him despite the Wentz injury.  And before the SB win he failed with Philly, the Rams and Chiefs. But sure, let's send a draft pick to Chicago for him and let him take reps from Wilson in camp so he can fail here too and be benched for .....Wilson in game 2-3.  

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Just now, Lith said:

I agree with you.  I think part of it is the paper he works for and the guy he replaced.  Most of the detail we get from these practices comes from DJ.  He is a Phins fan and that shows through every now and again, but so be it.  I think he does a good job ov covering these practices.  His observaitons in that article certainly seemed fair.

Agreed.  He puts in more effort than all the other beat guys put together during his camp reports.  

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7 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

And since that SB run, Foles was let go by Philadelphia, benched by Jacksonville after a few games and replaced by an unknown rookie (who was replaced by Lawrence), is now 3rd string in Chicago after failing to beat out Trubisky and after the Bears signed Dalton and drafted Fields, and Indy has zero interest in him despite the Wentz injury.  And before the SB win he failed with Philly, the Rams and Chiefs. But sure, let's send a draft pick to Chicago for him and let him take reps from Wilson in camp so he can fail here too and be benched for .....Wilson in game 2-3.  

You are really mistaking, Foles would be a good option to have on your roster if your extremely raw rookie QB from BYU isn't ready to start week 1, for, Foles is the guy you're looking for as an answer for the QB position.

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2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Saleh just said they plan to "roll 8 deep on the DL, and all of them are going to play"

So who are the 8?

The givens: DE: Lawson, JFM. DT: Q, Rankins, Fatukasi. That leaves 3 spots for the following guys competing: Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Phillips, Curry, Zuniga, Marshall, Dwumfour, Rashed, Smart, Valoaga. Of those, I'd say Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Marshall, and Curry are the ones with realistic chances of making that 8, with Zuniga on the outside looking in. If I had to pick 3, it would be Huff, Blair, and Marshall.

Sounds like the coaches like Huff as a 3rd down pass rushing specialist. He’s likely got a spot on the roster. The other two spots are likely going to come down to who they can and can’t stick on some injury list. 

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2 hours ago, Doggin94it said:

Saleh just said they plan to "roll 8 deep on the DL, and all of them are going to play"

So who are the 8?

The givens: DE: Lawson, JFM. DT: Q, Rankins, Fatukasi. That leaves 3 spots for the following guys competing: Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Phillips, Curry, Zuniga, Marshall, Dwumfour, Rashed, Smart, Valoaga. Of those, I'd say Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Marshall, and Curry are the ones with realistic chances of making that 8, with Zuniga on the outside looking in. If I had to pick 3, it would be Huff, Blair, and Marshall.

I think Curry is on the bubble too. Older, not fast. Really more of a hold the fort guy and Saleh doesn't seem to want those. Zuniga is the sleeper.

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6 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Maybe Moses will play right and george fant LT.  I mean, this is embarassing if its becton getting beat this much.

Maybe Vera Taylor and Becton exchange positions?

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Interesting thread.  I'm of the opinion that if Zach is starting he should get the reps.  If while getting the reps it's clear he's not ready to be thrown in the fire he shouldn't be.  

The idea that he should get all the reps is only a good idea if he is actually mentally and physically ready to start.  It's sort of like throwing someone who can't swim into the deep end of the pool.  Theory on teaching changes if they sink to the bottom and don't come up.

Personality is critically important. Peyton was mentally tough enough to take whatever he got his first year. So is the Head Coache's mindset. No rookie could have ever started for Parcells. His mind wouldn't have allowed for it. 

Zach and Saleh...we'll see but it's fine with me. Much better than watching Brian Hoyer.

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I tend to stay low but to say Becton was some weak sister last year in pass protection is PREPOSTEROUS!!!

Read some of the facts for yourself.....

https://jetsxfactor.com/2021/05/13/mekhi-bectons-pass-protection-deserves-more-praise-film/

While Becton’s triumphs in the run game are certainly worth marveling at, his unique highlight-worthiness in that phase has led to his abilities in the passing game being overlooked. Becton offers just as much elite potential in pass protection as he does in the run game. His pass-blocking performance as a 21-year-old rookie left tackle was nothing short of admirable.

Becton earned a pass blocking grade of 76.0 at Pro Football Focus, which ranked at the 66th percentile among qualified tackles. He finished the season on an upward trend, posting a 78.3 pass blocking grade from Weeks 11-17. That ranked at the 83rd percentile among all tackles over that span, including ninth-best among left tackles.

 

 

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Jets training camp report: Pushing through the bad because the potential is so good

FLORHAM PARK, NEW JERSEY - JULY 30: Zach Wilson #2 of the New York Jets passes during practice at Atlantic Health Jets Training Center on July 30, 2021 in Florham Park, New Jersey. (Photo by Adam Hunger/Getty Images)
By Connor Hughes 1h agocomment-icon.png 4 save-icon.png

The play was there. All Zach Wilson had to do was put the ball in front of Elijah Moore, who had beaten Bless Austin on a go route in the first 1-on-1 drills of Jets training camp, and the rookie wideout would walk into the end zone for a touchdown.

Instead, Wilson’s ball hung in the air. It didn’t lead Moore, but forced him to come back. And as he did, Austin jumped backward, reached up his hand, and knocked it away.

No touchdown. Just an incompletion.

As Moore trotted back, he locked eyes with Wilson, who was unbuckling his chin strap. Neither motioned to the other, they just came together naturally.

“I told him, ‘Hey, I gotta get that one out there for you,'” Wilson recalled after practice. “He said: ‘So let’s get it again.'”

They did. And there was no incompletion this time.

Wilson’s perfectly-placed pass landed just over Moore’s right shoulder. He caught the ball, then blazed away from Austin and up the right sideline.

“That’s what practice is for,” Wilson said.

And it’s even more important for this youthful Jets offense.

Wilson, the No. 2 pick in the draft, steals most headlines on most days. And he should — he’s the rookie quarterback for a franchise desperately trying to snap its forever-long search for Joe Namath’s replacement. But Wilson is the frontman for an offense that isn’t just young — but really, really, really young.

On the first play of team drills Tuesday, Michael Carter, a rookie, joined Wilson in the backfield. Split wide was Moore … a rookie. Lined up at guard was Alijah Vera-Tucker … a rookie. Next to Vera-Tucker was Mekhi Becton … in his second year. Of the Jets’ projected starters, just Morgan Moses (30) and Greg Van Roten (31) are older than 29. Center Connor McGovern and receiver Jamison Crowder are 28. Receiver Corey Davis is 26. Tight end Chris Herndon is 25.

Even offensive coordinator Mike LaFleur is just 33.

“It’s great for us,” Wilson said. “We have some vet guys who are kind of pushing us along the way, helping us learn. We have great coaches who are helping us learn. But it’s great for us, man, because we have to get ready to go. There’s no wait here to get on the field.

“We don’t want to wait. We’re ready to play.”

There have been plenty of hiccups through the first week of camp. It’s inevitable anytime so many are doing something for the first time. Among the surprisingly pleasant developments at One Jets Drive, though, is that the kids look ready.

Wilson isn’t out there with the first team because he was the No. 2 pick. He’s there because he’s the Jets’ top option at quarterback. Carter is a step above the other three running backs (Tevin Coleman, Ty Johnson, Lamical Perine). Vera-Tucker might be the Jets’ best lineman. Moore might be their best player. Part of that has to do with the horrid talent acquisition of yesteryear, but it’s also a tribute to the way these players have come in and performed.

It’s why the Jets are willing to live with the bumps right now.

The good is so much better than the bad.

“If you would have said we would have come away with those three (Wilson, Vera-Tucker, Moore), plus Michael Carter in the fourth round?” coach Robert Saleh said. “I would have asked you what you’re smoking.”

The injury report

Practice concluded Tuesday with a scary scene as lineman Cameron Clark suffered a neck injury. It’s unclear exactly what happened, but as the offense and defense retreated to their respective huddles, the second-year pro lay motionless on the field. Trainers rushed to and surrounded Clark as the team almost immediately brought over a cart and began to move Clark on to a stretcher.

Clark was then taken off the field and to an ambulance, which rushed him to the Morristown Medical Center. Saleh and GM Joe Douglas huddled with medical staff after Clark was taken away.

After practice, Saleh said Clark had “some” movement in his extremities.

“We will have a lot more detail in the next couple of hours,” Saleh said. “I’m an optimist. God willing, everything will be just fine. As I said, we’ll wait for the eval. I thought our doctors were all available and attended to him pretty quickly and did a really nice job. Now we wait.”

Clark, a fourth-round pick a year ago, was working with the third-team offense during camp.

“Football goes away at that moment,” Saleh said. “It’s about the person, his family, his mom, and everyone in his life. That’s what takes precedence at that moment. Football kind of goes away. You get empathy in the sense we all have families.”

Right tackle Chuma Edoga and defensive end Jabari Zuniga also left practice early with trainers. Saleh said Edoga is dealing with a knee issue. He did not know the specifics of Zuniga’s ailment.

Right tackle George Fant (COVID list) is still out. He was on the field, though, so he’s progressing. Linebacker Brendon White and Matt Cole did not work. On the physically unable to perform (PUP) list: defensive linemen Quinnen Williams and Kyle Phillips and safety Ashtyn Davis. Defensive lineman Vinny Curry remains on the PUP/NFI (non-football injury) list.

Phillips and Davis worked on the side with trainers. Williams was out on the field watching practice.

Depth chart update

There was a little bit of a change to the offensive depth chart Tuesday as receiver Elijah Moore began practice working with the first team. Previously, and this dated back to organized team activities, Moore rotated in and worked with the first unit, but the Jets began each day with Corey Davis, Keelan Cole and Jamison Crowder. Tuesday, it was Moore who replaced Cole.

It was only a matter of time before this happened. Moore has been the best player — offense or defense — each day.

“It’s so important to him,” Saleh said. “He really wants to get better. He wants all of it. He wants all of the information and everything he can get on the grass. I think that’s more of a testament to his character, more than it is to his plate and what’s being asked of him (…) He’s special in that regard.”

Joining Moore as the first-team offense: Zach Wilson, Michael Carter, Davis, Crowder, Chris Herndon, Mekhi Becton, Alijah Vera-Tucker, Connor McGovern, Greg Van Roten, Morgan Moses. The second-team offense was Mike White, Tevin Coleman, Vyncint Smith, Cole, Braxton Berrios, Ryan Griffin, Conor McDermott, Dan Feeney, Corey Levin, Alex Lewis and Chuma Edoga.

The first-team defense: John Franklin-Myers, Sheldon Rankins, Foley Fatukasi, Hamsah Nasirildeen, C.J. Mosley, Jarrad Davis, Bless Austin, Marcus Maye, Lamarcus Joyner and Bryce Hall. Michael Carter took first-team reps as the third corner.

The Wilson report

It wasn’t the best day for Wilson. He wasn’t bad, just not nearly as sharp as Saturday and Sunday. He completed 9 of 13 passes, but just two of those traveled beyond 10 yards.

The one area Wilson seemed to struggle was ball placement on deep shots. Mentioned above is the one he missed in 1-on-1 drills, but Wilson twice undershot Vyncint Smith on go routes. Smith, among the fastest players on the Jets roster, got behind the defense for what should have been easy touchdowns. Wilson completed the first pass, but Smith had to stop running and come back for it. The same thing happened on the second, but the defense broke it up.

Saleh said part of that has to do with Wilson not totally being comfortable. He’s looking for guys, not trusting those guys will be at a spot. As he gets more reps, he’ll eventually start throwing to areas on the field and trusting his players will be there. There’s no question Wilson has a cannon for an arm — he just needs to know where to put the ball. That, Saleh said, comes in time.

Not helping Wilson: The Jets pass rush. Wilson went down for three would-be sacks in team drills. Carl Lawson beat Mekhi Becton for two. Bryce Huff beat Morgan Moses for one.

“He has his hands full,” Saleh said. “Those pockets are getting really tight on him. Those are things he has to figure out. He had about four of them where the pocket closed on him and he just wasn’t sure where the receiver was and he underthrew them. Those are things he has to feel, trust, and know, (and it comes) with understanding and knowing exactly where his players are going to be, and being able to just launch it to a spot on the field.”

Developing pass rush

This isn’t the Jets offensive line of recent vintage. The grouping of Becton, Vera-Tucker, McGovern, Van Roten and Moses is pretty good. If Becton and Vera-Tucker develop as the team hopes, they have a chance to be one of the better groupings in the NFL. So it’s notable to see the defensive line creating such havoc in practice because, again, unlike the past, this offensive line is not bad.

Lawson is turning more than a few heads in the building. The Jets knew they were getting a player, but they did not know he’d be this good.

The former Bengal said he missed “100” sacks last year because he expects to get a sack on every play.

He might finish training camp with close to that mark.

Lawson is getting by Becton two or three times each practice to tap the quarterback on the shoulder. On his second sack Tuesday, he just stood behind Wilson and let him finish his read progression. That’s the speed at which he’s getting back there.

Another guy to watch, though: Bryce Huff. The Jets seem to like pairing him with John Franklin-Myers, Sheldon Rankins and Lawson in passing situations. Franklin-Myers gives the Jets the luxury of doing that because he can move inside. Huff came screaming off the edge on back-to-back plays, beating Moses each time. One was a near sack. The other a no-doubt sack.

Saleh wants to create that San Francisco pass rush here in New York. He’s still a player or two away from that, but he’s on his way. Remember: Quinnen Williams isn’t even on the field yet.

Quick hits and tidbits

 The Jets took a gamble with their secondary in not adding a veteran cornerback. Bless Austin has struggled some at points, but Bryce Hall looks to have taken a real step forward in Year 2. He had a couple of impressive matchups against Corey Davis in the 1-on-1 drills. He won on a back-shoulder attempt and a go route. There wasn’t a window at all. He had a good offseason and seems to have parlayed that into training camp.

 Another player starting to turn some heads is receiver Vyncint Smith. He made a couple of plays last week, and as mentioned above, should have had two walk-in touchdowns on deep routes Tuesday. Smith jumped Denzel Mims on the depth chart to work with the second team last week. He got his share of reps with Wilson on Tuesday.

 Rookie defensive back Michael Carter II had a gorgeous interception in the 1-on-1 drills. It was tough to see the receiver, but Carter jammed him at the line to the point he couldn’t get beyond five yards. He then made his way around the receiver and lunged forward to pick off Mike White. 

 It’s likely not long before Carter takes all the first-team reps from Javelin GuidryGuidry struggled in the individual drills, although he did have a nice pass breakup on a James Morgan throw in team work.

 It’s looking to be Michael Carter and Tevin Coleman as your top two, then a rotation of Ty JohnsonLamical Perine and Josh AdamsDon’t sleep on Adams. He’s had a few nice runs in camp this year.

 An interesting note: Saleh said after practice he doesn’t really like seven-on-seven or one-on-one drills in practice. He prefers extra team work. His reasoning makes a lot of sense. Saleh said he wants his players to get as many “live reps” as possible because it helps the quarterback in feeling the pocket, the offensive and defensive lines in playing with their partners, and the receivers in getting in and out of their breaks. In one-on-one and seven-on-seven drills, Saleh said, players naturally slow things down. Quarterbacks take longer to go through their reps and receivers their routes. The offensive line can feel like they’re on an island because there isn’t as much space for the defense to work. “It’s not that big to me,” he said.

 Kicking update! Chris Naggar made all four of his attempts Tuesday. Matt Ammendola made three of four attempts. Ammendola has the stronger leg. That’s obvious after watching the two kick. He just needs to work on consistency.

 Tuesday was Zach Wilson’s birthday. He has the same birthday as Tom Brady. Wilson joked that he was one year old when Brady began his NFL career.

Next up

The Jets return to practice Wednesday. They won’t be in full pads, though, like Tuesday. The Jets’ next full-padded practice is Thursday.

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