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Training Camp Updates - Tues Aug 3


Lith

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2 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

While im not concerned about Zach ( its only the 4th practice, first in pads) I do kinda wonder why they havent sought out to replace Knapp.

We were not allowed to talk about this after the accident, but it is a key football issue for the Jets.  All other similar coaches are in place, so who do you hire now that the season has started?????

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

No clue but I sure hope so because Knapp was legitimately the only thing making me comfortable about Zach's development.  He's now getting coached up by Rob Calabrese who was the towel boy for the Broncos last year.  It's scary. 

No, no replacement.  They considered his position to be extra so they are not refilling it on the staff.

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1 minute ago, Origen said:

No, no replacement.  They considered his position to be extra so they are not refilling it on the staff.

Interesting.  Why was his position considered extra? Seems like a crucial role for a team with all rookie coaches and a rookie QB.  He was the only offensive coach in the building who has developed a QB at any level and the only coach who has called offensive plays in an actual NFL game.

 

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5 minutes ago, Lurker89 said:

He was already a stud ... There is a reason he was one of the only multi year contracts JD has dished out. Lawson is probably my favorite addition to the team.

He's going to be a boon for Becton's development in the long run.

Ok, I won't argue that. I like the signing and wasn't trying to knock the guy I think it's just the semantics of us having different definitions of stud. I wouldn't call any EDGE guy that's never cracked 10 sacks a stud but again it's just semantics. 

I'll rephrase my original point - Last year Becton shut down Bosa (who Imo is a stud) as well as any T in the league. My point was that I'm not sure Lawson suddenly became as good or better than Bosa but hey, maybe he did. If that's the case, great!!?

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6 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

This is a horrible idea on so many levels.  Wilson needs reps period. There is no point in giving reps away to a garbage veteran.  First this board thought the world would end because Wilson missed two practices and now they want to give away invaluable practice reps to a QB who will never be in the Jets plans past October??? And then you want the beat writers to be comparing the two in their daily meaningless tweet fests?  These training camp tweets are a pile of useless information.  A play here, a pass there.  It tells us nothing. QB competitions are bad for teams.  When you have 2 QBs you have none. Let the kid play and learn.

Because this has worked so well in the past.

The pressure on Wilson to get reps was precisely because there’s literally no alternative to start. The 49ers or Bears would have no pressure at all as their rookies are going to sit and wait behind vets that they can learn from. 

What source do you have that QB competitions are bad exactly? 

Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady - All sat behind vets their rookie year. Didn’t work so badly for them. But nah let’s just throw him in at the deep end and see how he copes like we did with Sanchez and Darnold. Always works out great.

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2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Interesting.  Why was his position considered extra? Seems like a crucial role for a team with all rookie coaches and a rookie QB.  He was the only offensive coach in the building who has developed a QB at any level and the only coach who has called offensive plays in an actual NFL game.

 

Yeah, he was added late as a "Bonus" position to the hierarchy is the way I heard it when Saleh had the press conference.  They fit Knapp in as Passing Game Coordinator to get him in position between a young QB coach and a young OC, but since normal coaching staffs don't have that position, or it is filled by the OC or someone else, they are just absorbing the role into the already set jobs.

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4 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Because this has worked so well in the past.

The pressure on Wilson to get reps was precisely because there’s literally no alternative to start. The 49ers or Bears would have no pressure at all as their rookies are going to sit and wait behind vets that they can learn from. 

What source do you have that QB competitions are bad exactly? 

Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady - All sat behind vets their rookie year. Didn’t work so badly for them. But nah let’s just throw him in at the deep end and see how he copes like we did with Sanchez and Darnold. Always works out great.

Payton Manning figured it out after a pretty rough year starting as a rookie.

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Just now, Origen said:

Yeah, he was added late as a "Bonus" position to the hierarchy is the way I heard it when Saleh had the press conference.  They fit Knapp in as Passing Game Coordinator to get him in position between a young QB coach and a young OC, but since normal coaching staffs don't have that position, or it is filled by the OC or someone else, they are just absorbing the role into the already set jobs.

Right, which makes sense and why Im kind of shocked they're not looking for someone similar.  I feel like the "passing game coordinator" is a common position in today's NFL.  Lafleur was in that role at San Fran w/ Saleh for the past 4 years.  idk, maybe I'm looking to much into it but leaving Zach's development in the hands of Rob Calabrese doesnt seem like a great plan. 

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

1) With the very unfortunate passing of Knapp, who is developing Zach?  There isnt a single player or coach on the team who has taken an NFL snap at QB.  Not 1. There isnt a single coach on the team who has developed a QB.  There isnt a single coach on the team who has called play in an NFL Football game.  And we're rolling out a project QB.  It's not a good recipe for success.  And I've got a buddy who has been to every practice and said Wilson has looked "erratic" at best, during live time.  That said, it's early...so we'll see how it changes but I hate that he has nobody to work with that actually knows the position. 

2) I'd be more concerned if he didnt prove himself last year.  Concerning?  Sure but I think Becton proved when he was available last year, he has elite attributes if he can put it all together and stay on the field. 

It is crazy to me that this overwhelming lack of experience continues to be sold as a good thing as if it's some sort of cutting-edge-anti-wisdom - maybe this would work in the bizarro world?. Next we're going to be told that having a lack of overall skill/ talent is actually a good thing that only the coolest HCs employ. 

Experience matters, and we have a huge deficiency here. What about hiring John Beck for a QB Coach position, wasn't he ZW's mentor leading up to the draft? Pennington? anyone?

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1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

Sam started day one. The HCs were 100% focused on developing him, the problem (aside from Sam himself) was the lack of talent around him, not reps that we’re going to McCown. ?

You loved Sam, do you want to see the same thing happen to Zach?

 

To be honest Sam happened to Sam and at this point in Sam's camp he was still taking 3rd team reps so do not agree they were 100% focused on purely developing Sam. Zach is in a much better situation and we are basically not discussing him being bad just essentially not being awesome in his first padded practice. Still super confident in him and will be until he proves me wrong.

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9 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Are you serious? 

Over the last 3 years how many kickers have we had?

Dead serious, you said we're still a revolving door and I said they made one kicking change.  

Holds true no matter what they did 2 or 3 years ago.  We had one kicker last year when he was healthy

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1 hour ago, TeddEY said:

Won't isn't a word I've used.  It's 40 days, and the guy is a bit of a project.

I think it's a mistake not to have another option.

And, I guess my bar wasn't "low end starter."

Depending on who your "other option" was, "low end starter" likely would have been what you were getting anyway . . .

 

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

This.

Having been to a bunch of camp days over the years these are the most overrated events ever, they are more like walkthroughs.  In this era of fast typing social media they make a huge deal out of everything.  Three preseason games will tell the tale.  Right now, we're just looking for players to look like they are in the right position, running the right routes, making the right reads, not looking gassed.  The judgement on the execution comes in a few weeks.

SAR I

So you're not quite ready to say we'll start 5-0?

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18 minutes ago, Irish Jet said:

Because this has worked so well in the past.

The pressure on Wilson to get reps was precisely because there’s literally no alternative to start. The 49ers or Bears would have no pressure at all as their rookies are going to sit and wait behind vets that they can learn from. 

What source do you have that QB competitions are bad exactly? 

Mahomes, Rodgers, Brady - All sat behind vets their rookie year. Didn’t work so badly for them. But nah let’s just throw him in at the deep end and see how he copes like we did with Sanchez and Darnold. Always works out great.

They all sat behind established QBs - Smith, Favre, and Bledsoe.  Who will Wilson sit behind?  Manion?  Foles?  For all of the examples you gave, I can give the alternative.  P. Manning didn't sit.  Watson didn't sit.  Murray didn't sit.  

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2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Ok, early worries that will surely garner plenty of thumbs downs.

1) I don't think Wilson is ready to be the day 1 starter.  Wish we had a veteran, even for 6-8 games.

2) Becton getting abused is not great.  This goes beyond "Well it's a good sign from Lawson."  Lawson may be the best pass rusher we've had since Abraham, but the guy isn't Lawrence Taylor.  Concerning.

He certainly isn’t ready. Not sure how he could be. Yet, he has the rest of camp to get there. Me thinks we will be running a lot and  doing lots of quick hit play action stuff early. I hope they anticipated this and have planned accordingly for it. Certainly a monumental concern. 
 

This is the bigger concern. If Becton and the rest of the line can’t get it together then whatever plan they had for Zach is never going to come close to working. Hopefully these guys can at least run block early in the year. 

 

 

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1 minute ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

They all sat behind established QBs - Smith, Favre, and Bledsoe.  Who will Wilson sit behind?  Manion?  Foles?  For all of the examples you gave, I can give the alternative.  P. Manning didn't sit.  Watson didn't sit.  Murray didn't sit.  

I think its situational and it's more about having flexibility.  Not being forced to start someone who isnt ready and potentially creating permanent damage. 

Technically, Watson watched Tom Savage start the season but was benched at half time.  Mayfield, Herbert, Jackson, Tua, Goff - they all sat.  Burrow was 25 entering the league.  Manning was a 4 year starter.  Murray walked into a system he knew inside and out. So again, I think it's situational. 

I dont know that Wilson needs to sit, I'm just concerned about the fact, there literally isnt a single player or coach on the entire roster who has ever taken a snap in the NFL as a QB.  No coach, has ever developed a QB.  No coach, has ever called a play in the NFL.   When you throw in a 1 year wonder rookie coming from BYU who played yolo ball all year long vs. sh*t talent, I think it's a very valid concern that he literally nobody to show him the ropes.  

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20 minutes ago, HawkeyeJet said:

There are much more interesting developments in camp so far but Bryce Hall is sounding legit.  Winning reps in 1 on 1s and hardly if ever mentioned in team drills which would indicate they are testing him much.

He looked great at times in limited action toward the end of last year, so it makes sense that he is playing well in camp

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1 minute ago, JiFapono said:

I think its situational and it's more about having flexibility.  Not being forced to start someone who isnt ready and potentially creating permanent damage. 

Technically, Watson watched Tom Savage start the season but was benched at half time.  Mayfield, Herbert, Jackson, Tua, Goff - they all sat.  Burrow was 25 entering the league.  Manning was a 4 year starter.  Murray walked into a system he knew inside and out. So again, I think it's situational. 

I dont know that Wilson needs to sit, I'm just concerned about the fact, there literally isnt a single player or coach on the entire roster who has ever taken a snap in the NFL as a QB.  No coach, has ever developed a QB.  No coach, has ever called a play in the NFL.   When you throw in a 1 year wonder rookie coming from BYU who played yolo ball all year long vs. sh*t talent, I think it's a very valid concern that he literally nobody to show him the ropes.  

Well said sweet one. 

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18 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Right, which makes sense and why Im kind of shocked they're not looking for someone similar.  I feel like the "passing game coordinator" is a common position in today's NFL.  Lafleur was in that role at San Fran w/ Saleh for the past 4 years.  idk, maybe I'm looking to much into it but leaving Zach's development in the hands of Rob Calabrese doesnt seem like a great plan. 

We're heading into "Magic...or Mess?" when it comes to this many first-timers all in new roles pushing all the chips to the center on themselves.  I will say I prefer having coaches like these who are so confident they are willing to jump in the deep end without all the safety valves and life preservers we usually see Jets teams require and fail with.  This just feels so different after 40 years of my paying attention to them, aside from a few blips here and there.  We've got to win someday, right?

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9 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

 

Saleh just said they plan to "roll 8 deep on the DL, and all of them are going to play"

So who are the 8?

The givens: DE: Lawson, JFM. DT: Q, Rankins, Fatukasi. That leaves 3 spots for the following guys competing: Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Phillips, Curry, Zuniga, Marshall, Dwumfour, Rashed, Smart, Valoaga. Of those, I'd say Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Marshall, and Curry are the ones with realistic chances of making that 8, with Zuniga on the outside looking in. If I had to pick 3, it would be Huff, Blair, and Marshall.

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9 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

They all sat behind established QBs - Smith, Favre, and Bledsoe.  Who will Wilson sit behind?  Manion?  Foles?  For all of the examples you gave, I can give the alternative.  P. Manning didn't sit.  Watson didn't sit.  Murray didn't sit.  

I could not find the article if I tried but there is no statistical advantage to ANY strategy for developing a young QB. QBs have succeeded and failed being starter from Day 1, starting mid-season or starting their 2nd year. I personally like the Jets approach. He is getting as many reps as possible. Yes, Sam started Day 1 but he had way less reps in camp. Herbert went in on game 3 or so? Would he have completely failed if he started Day 1. 

And even Cimini said Wilson was "OK" today. OK is not bad. We should actually be encouraged that he is not having a dreadful practice in the face of adversity.

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Regarding the lack of experienced QB coaching on the roster right now, I have to believe there are people out there who are not currently tied to another NFL team who could be valuable as in some sort of QB coaching role similar to what Knapp was doing.  Even if it's not someone well versed in LaFleur's system, just having someone who has been there and who can talk to Wilson after every series during preseason would seem to be valuable.  

Like what is Chad doing right now?  Peyton?  Is it time for McCown to hang up his cleats and start being a coach?  

 

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9 minutes ago, Doggin94it said:

Saleh just said they plan to "roll 8 deep on the DL, and all of them are going to play"

So who are the 8?

The givens: DE: Lawson, JFM. DT: Q, Rankins, Fatukasi. That leaves 3 spots for the following guys competing: Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Phillips, Curry, Zuniga, Marshall, Dwumfour, Rashed, Smart, Valoaga. Of those, I'd say Huff, Blair, Sheppard, Marshall, and Curry are the ones with realistic chances of making that 8, with Zuniga on the outside looking in. If I had to pick 3, it would be Huff, Blair, and Marshall.

Huff was playing with the 1s and had a near sack and a definite "sack" so I think he is close to a given. 

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3 minutes ago, CanadaSteve said:

Did we not have two kickers last year....Ficken and Castillo?

And was Castillo not brought in because Ficken had a pulled thigh or some other muscle?

He just likes to argue even when hes dead wrong.  

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