Training camp 8/5 - The pads are back on!

[Paradis]

1 hour ago, Drums said:

Going to be some tough RB cuts. I now think Perine might end up making it. So that's Carter, Coleman... Perine? Haven't been seeing Ty Johnson's name much. Adams either. Now this guy Walter.. 

If by tough, you mean someone might have to chew their gum 10% more vigorously - then sure

Carter aside, this is the definition of a JAG room squad. They will all benefit from the system, but after Carter, Coleman, and likely Ty Johnson, the rest are foregettable. Perine probably get the nods based on draft pedigree. The rest will be crossed off a list without even a frown.

[Lith]

 

[sec101row23]

18 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Dont expect it to be like ground and pound. If you actually look at the numbers the "Shanahan" offense is skewed towards the pass, even the SF version. The difference is that 1st and 2nd downs are very balanced run/pass so that both play action and running are successful. It is not a run-run-pass offense.

This offense is based on running the football, they are going to do it often to establish that.  Especially with a rookie QB that needs to be developed and brought along slowly.  

[David Harris]

4 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

Wow at the young CB’s

[Snook]

27 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Keep in mind that, while they are in pads, there is no "tackling" to speak of.  We all need to take these runs, sacks, etc with a grain of salt.  Has Wilson scrambled and run yet?  Doesn't seem so. So many of these "sacks" may be erased by QB mobility.  And many of these 20 yard runs could be 4 yard runs if the defense could hit.  We don't have context and full contact, which is why these play-by-play tweets are not that useful.  Plus, how many passes is Wilson throwing in a practice?  50? 60?  And how many are in pure passing drills where Lawson knows it is a pass and can just rush the passer without worrying about anything else?  I'm not putting much stock in a tweet here or there without understanding context, situation, etc.  This is another reason why social media is a negative. The beat writers need to tweet during practice, but I put more stock in an end of the day summary of practice and what I see in game situations once the season starts.

Add to that LaFleur and Ulbrich are coordinating with each other at times to see how their respective units react and to get things on tape.

 

[Lith]

 

[JustInFudge]

15 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

This offense is based on running the football, they are going to do it often to establish that.  Especially with a rookie QB that needs to be developed and brought along slowly.  

2 questions since you've been there.   Are the different WR groupings based on down field blocking?  Like is that why Mims is running with different groups? He's a great and willing downfield blocker?

And I'm noticing a lot of "diving" or "sliding" catches being reported?  Well placed ball where only the WR can get them?  Inaccurate balls with great adjustments?  Or maybe still just getting used to timing?

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, UntouchableCrew said:

 

This is interesting. Walter wasn't even on my radar entering camp but certainly seems to be ahead of Perine and Ty Johnson. 

Ty johnson to me is the kid that needs to be worried most.. Carter and sounds like Walter even have very similar skills sets to him.  Johnsons best asset was his speed, so if anyone of those guys can fill that quota he may be gone.  Perine has packed on some size and is becoming a little more of a thumper that i think will bode well and help him serve a roll here. 

[Claymation]

 

[Chrebetfan80]

1 hour ago, Drums said:

If JD wanted a RT I think he would have taken Wirfs though

not to knock wirfs because he's a great prospect and had an awesome year, but I do want to see how stout play in and play out he is when he doesnt have the luxury of a quick fire brady in the pocket.  That does help quite a bit. 

[Claymation]

First time I read a Tyler Lockett comparison, and its spot on.

[Drums]

3 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

not to knock wirfs because he's a great prospect and had an awesome year, but I do want to see how stout play in and play out he is when he doesnt have the luxury of a quick fire brady in the pocket.  That does help quite a bit. 

Yup, I don't disagree. My point was basically that he is a RT

[Spoot-Face]

23 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

If only Alex Lewis had a mullet, he'd be fine right now.

[Drums]

@JiFapono
 

 

[flgreen]

Jets Practice Recap - 8/5/21

05 AUGUST 2021

The Jets were on the field for another training camp practice on Thursday with media on hand.

Here's what else went down during practice, based on media reports and tweets from those in attendance:

• Alijah Vera-Tucker, who is day to day with a pec injury, spent practice in the rehab area. George Fant, who is yet to be activated from Covid reserve, was there also;
• Bryce Hall did a good job on Corey Davis on a couple of one-on-ones;
• In linemen drills, Greg Van Roten seemed to struggle while Mekhi Becton did well;
• Hall was working with the starters again after Brandin Echols got his shot yesterday. Today, Blessuan Austin moved down into the second unit and Isaiah Dunn worked with the starters;
• Carl Lawson had a run stuff early on in the team session but Tevin Coleman, La'Mical Perine and Ace Carter had first down runs;
• Zach Wilson found Elijah Moore on his first pass of the day, as Moore made a diving catch against Dunn on the outside;
• Austin Walter broke away for a 70-yard touchdown run, eluding a few tacklers in the open field;
• Noah Dawkins broke up a Mike White pass;
• Alex Lewis - who had been filling in for Vera-Tucker - left the field and walked inside with a trainer;
• Wilson's next series saw him hit Corey Davis a couple of times but he also threw a bad pick to Jarrad Davis;
• Lawson beat Becton around the edge for another sack;
• Josh Adams dropped a short Wilson pass;
• Bryce Huff racked up three sacks on the day;
• John Franklin-Myers was shaken up and headed inside with a trainer and then Daniel Brown got hurt shortly afterwards and later headed to the locker room as well;
• Ty Johnson broke about a 20-yard run;
• Mike White hit Keelan Cole and James Morgan hit Chris Herndon for good gains;
• Denzel Mims got called for a push-off to negate a long completion from Morgan;
• Wilson escaped the pocket to find Herndon for a nice gain and hit Davis a few more times for first downs;
• Moore caught a long pass from Wilson down the field but it was possibly supposed to be a crosser to Tyler Kroft that Wilson overthrew;
• CJ Mosley broke up a pass intended for Carter, who also had two drops;
• Carter then bounced back with a 60-yard catch and run on a Mike White pass;
• James Morgan hit Josh Malone for a touchdown on his next series but also threw interceptions to Zane Lewis and Blake Cashman. The Cashman pass was deflected off Walter's hands and returned for a touchdown;
• Echols went down late in practice and needed attention from a trainer. They worked on his calf and then he returned to action;
• To wrap up, each quarterback led a run-heavy drive that ended up short of the end zone. Wilson's only pass on his drive was broken up by Marcus Maye but Johnson and Perine each had a good run;
• White's drive didn't really go anywhere as Justin Hardee had a good pass break-up; and
• Morgan got his turn last as Adams and Carter each had a good run.

Tomorrow is a day off and then the annual Green/White scrimmage takes place on Saturday evening. Check back here then for more coverage.

[FidelioJet]

57 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

Keep in mind that, while they are in pads, there is no "tackling" to speak of.  We all need to take these runs, sacks, etc with a grain of salt.  Has Wilson scrambled and run yet?  Doesn't seem so. So many of these "sacks" may be erased by QB mobility.  And many of these 20 yard runs could be 4 yard runs if the defense could hit.  We don't have context and full contact, which is why these play-by-play tweets are not that useful.  Plus, how many passes is Wilson throwing in a practice?  50? 60?  And how many are in pure passing drills where Lawson knows it is a pass and can just rush the passer without worrying about anything else?  I'm not putting much stock in a tweet here or there without understanding context, situation, etc.  This is another reason why social media is a negative. The beat writers need to tweet during practice, but I put more stock in an end of the day summary of practice and what I see in game situations once the season starts.

This is very true. These Tweeters keep saying "would have been a sack" but that's just silly as the QB could do a lot more than he's doing right now.  How often do we see a DE or T get to the QB going full-speed and the QB just side steps him - steps up and throws the ball or runs for a first down.  That happens more often then the defender gets the sack - yet the Tweeters are calling that a sack. Almost touching or even touching a QB is quite a bit easier than bringing him down.  Becton will be fine.

[sec101row23]

20 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

2 questions since you've been there.   Are the different WR groupings based on down field blocking?  Like is that why Mims is running with different groups? He's a great and willing downfield blocker?

And I'm noticing a lot of "diving" or "sliding" catches being reported?  Well placed ball where only the WR can get them?  Inaccurate balls with great adjustments?  Or maybe still just getting used to timing?

The “base” 3 receiver set seems to be Davis, Cole and Moore.   More so because of the versatility that group brings.  You can interchange all 3 of them.  The “system” loves versatility since you can stay in the same personnel package and run various formations out of it.  
 

The ball placement thing is a mixed bag to be honest.  Timing and route crispness are at play.   Different receivers can run the same route differently.  Some are just bad throws and decisions.   

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

The “base” 3 receiver set seems to be Davis, Cole and Moore.   More so because of the versatility that group brings.  You can interchange all 3 of them.  The “system” loves versatility since you can stay in the same personnel package and run various formations out of it.  
 

The ball placement thing is a mixed bag to be honest.  Timing and route crispness are at play.   Different receivers can run the same route differently.  Some are just bad throws and decisions.   

4 wide add in Crowder.

Going to be tough defend. 

[flgreen]

Rich Cimini @RichCimini 2m

Zach Wilson practice recap: One bad moment, the INT by Jarrad Davis. Not sure what he was looking at, but he didn’t see Davis in short zone. Solid day otherwise (11-for-17, 2 sacks). Most comfortable throwing outside the numbers. #Jets

Beat Writer / Columnist

•  

[The Crusher]

29 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

2 questions since you've been there.   Are the different WR groupings based on down field blocking?  Like is that why Mims is running with different groups? He's a great and willing downfield blocker?

And I'm noticing a lot of "diving" or "sliding" catches being reported?  Well placed ball where only the WR can get them?  Inaccurate balls with great adjustments?  Or maybe still just getting used to timing?

Zach’s still adjusting to throwing the balls without his Gucci shades. 

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, Snook said:

The Jets offense should use it as their cadence.

"Omaha.... Scumbag..... Bellicheat"

[joewilly12]

Just now, The Crusher said:

Zach’s still adjusting to throwing the balls without his Gucci shades. 

[Paradis]

50 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

Jets secondary gonna surprise some folk. I keep preaching - these cats were picked with tactful purpose.. 

Saleh was around with SEA when the Legion of Boom blossomed. 

just saying. 

[sec101row23]

2 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

4 wide add in Crowder.

Going to be tough defend. 

I haven’t seen many if any 4 wide sets yet.   They seem to be almost exclusively in 11 personnel right now.   That will change I’m sure at some point.  

[Integrity28]

58 minutes ago, Lith said:

 

A smart leader creates space for the team to solidify and build their identity.

Fat idiots tell the team their identity and then make excuses when it isn’t realized.

[choon328]

1 hour ago, Green Ghost said:

The only thing about it that concerns me is it messing with a young QBs internal clock.

id like to see them blow the whistle a bit also, just to make sure Zach knows when he has to either eat it or throw it away.

Not sure if letting him “finish every play” is optimal, but I’ll trust our coaches here.

You finish the play so you're QB can still read the defense and throw the ball

Wilson needs as much practice with that as he can get. Stopping the play makes zero sense if you're trying to develop a QB.

[choon328]

58 minutes ago, Paradis said:

If by tough, you mean someone might have to chew their gum 10% more vigorously - then sure

Carter aside, this is the definition of a JAG room squad. They will all benefit from the system, but after Carter, Coleman, and likely Ty Johnson, the rest are foregettable. Perine probably get the nods based on draft pedigree. The rest will be crossed off a list without even a frown.

Austin Walter was brought here from SF with LaFleur. There was a reason for that. He's already running as the 3rd back. I don't think he gets cut. 

[sec101row23]

Just now, Paradis said:

Jets secondary gonna surprise some folk. I keep preaching - these cats were picked with tactful purpose.. 

Saleh was around with SEA when the Legion of Boom blossomed. 

just saying. 

Agreed.  Watching them in drills and in 11 on 11 and 7 on 7, they can play.  Echols is the first guy on the field for practice, I feel like there are more DB coaches than DBs..Lol.   Plus Ulbrich spends a ton of time with the CBS during position drills. 

[JohnnyLV]

56 minutes ago, Joe Willie White Shoes said:

That's not exactly accurate. In 2019 when SF went to the SB, SF had 498 running plays and 478 passes.  That number flipped more towards the pass last year.  I think if the Jets are not trailing significantly in most games, I would expect this to be run-based offense.

OK, but my point about the offense is still valid. SF actually threw among the least on 3rd down and were incredibly balanced. That balance is what gives the offense it's success. It is the opposite of the Rex philosophy because you pass WAY more on first and second down and less on third down. Also, teams with leads run more so that skews the data even more to the run, but 498 to 478 is close to perfect balance especially considering kneel downs at the end of halfs and games. 

In the ground and pound philosophy the idea is to run on 1st and 2nd to create favorable passing situations (it fails btw at doing that for the most part) where the offense we will run will be balanced to slightly pass skewed on 1st and 2nd to set up easy run situations and actually avoid 3rd down as much as possible.

Here is a good analysis of it that shows the balance

https://medium.com/the-sports-scientist/understanding-the-49ers-2019-offense-7e1c9ef428a2

 

[Paradis]

4 minutes ago, choon328 said:

Austin Walter was brought here from SF with LaFleur. There was a reason for that. He's already running as the 3rd back. I don't think he gets cut. 

Sure. Either way, there’s not much of a story there. We have 2 backs who will likely consume 75% of the snaps - with maybe another active on Sundays for COP purposes.

I hope at least 1 more rises to challenge Coleman. 

[JohnnyLV]

1 hour ago, sec101row23 said:

This offense is based on running the football, they are going to do it often to establish that.  Especially with a rookie QB that needs to be developed and brought along slowly.  

It's not though. It is a balanced offense

[JohnnyLV]

12 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Agreed.  Watching them in drills and in 11 on 11 and 7 on 7, they can play.  Echols is the first guy on the field for practice, I feel like there are more DB coaches than DBs..Lol.   Plus Ulbrich spends a ton of time with the CBS during position drills. 

I think Jets fans are locked into thinking of corners in the Rex mold. Lockdown man to man guys in 1 on 1 coverage. We are not that anymore. We are a Cover 2 Cover 3 team that plays press man and passes off into zone. So we need zone corners. Interestingly the best zone corners don't go high in the draft. MC2 was considered one of the top zone CBs in the entire draft. The first and 2nd round CBs are man guys. Under Saleh we may never take a corner really high in the draft.

[Bungaman]

22 minutes ago, choon328 said:

You finish the play so you're QB can still read the defense and throw the ball

Wilson needs as much practice with that as he can get. Stopping the play makes zero sense if you're trying to develop a QB.

Good point - practice is for all 22 on the field, not just a rusher and the QB. Why waste the energy all of the others are putting into that rep? There are multiple lessons being imparted.

[32EBoozer]

2 hours ago, Lith said:

Damn.  I step away for a minute and I miss the only Mims reference of the day.  

Hopefully there will be another tomorrow!

[UntouchableCrew]

56 minutes ago, Chrebetfan80 said:

Ty johnson to me is the kid that needs to be worried most.. Carter and sounds like Walter even have very similar skills sets to him.  Johnsons best asset was his speed, so if anyone of those guys can fill that quota he may be gone.  Perine has packed on some size and is becoming a little more of a thumper that i think will bode well and help him serve a roll here. 

Yeah, seems like there was a deliberate effort for Perine to be more of a power/short yardage guy.