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Training Camp Practice - 8/10


Joe W. Namath
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12 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

How so? 

 

7 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Exactly.  He's stepping up to a new level in a league that is 100000x better then what he just face and nobody has any idea on how he fits but he's out there just taking luxuries with snaps, trying sh*t on for size instead of mastering his craft?  That makes zero ******* sense.

That's like going to the gym and practicing backwards half court shots "to just see if maybe I can make them in the game".  Instead of going to the gym and practicing the exact looks you know you're going to get based on your role in the offense.

And if this true; how does this help the rest of the offense get adjusted? 

Totally moronic. 

 

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Because hes developing, isnt a finished product after 10 practices?

No you judge what you see.  He was the 2nd overall pick so obviously he was judged him and the NYJ thought he was worthy of such this high honor.  Currently, he’s reportedly struggling so he’s being judged based on that.  2-3 years from now when he’s the greater QB to put on cleats, we’ll judge him again accordingly.

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Just now, legler82 said:

No you judge what you see.  He was the 2nd overall pick so obviously he was judged him and the NYJ thought he was worthy of such this high honor.  Currently, he’s reportedly struggling so he’s being judged based on that.  2-3 years from now when he’s the greater QB to put on cleats, we’ll judge him again accordingly.

Hey do acknowledge that >75% of his passes were good enough for completions and he probably isn't the only player making mistakes?  

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11 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Exactly.  He's stepping up to a new level in a league that is 100000x better then what he just face and nobody has any idea on how he fits but he's out there just taking luxuries with snaps, trying sh*t on for size instead of mastering his craft?  That makes zero ******* sense.

That's like going to the gym and practicing backwards half court shots "to just see if maybe I can make them in the game".  Instead of going to the gym and practicing the exact looks you know you're going to get based on your role in the offense.

And if this true; how does this help the rest of the offense get adjusted? 

Totally moronic. 

He’s learning what he can and can’t get away with. Something that every qb goes thru.

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18 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

I really dont understand why this thought is creating so much division among fans.  It's not even a knock on Zach.  It is actually more about supporting him appropriately and what is going to help him the long run.  I think throwing a player out there who isnt ready can have very negative ramifications long term. 

 

Because when objectivity and desire are in conflict, people choose desire?

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10 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Exactly.  He's stepping up to a new level in a league that is 100000x better then what he just face and nobody has any idea on how he fits but he's out there just taking luxuries with snaps, trying sh*t on for size instead of mastering his craft?  That makes zero ******* sense.

That's like going to the gym and practicing backwards half court shots "to just see if maybe I can make them in the game".  Instead of going to the gym and practicing the exact looks you know you're going to get based on your role in the offense.

And if this true; how does this help the rest of the offense get adjusted? 

Totally moronic. 

If you draft a 19 year old Trae Young and he is in practice only taking easy lay ups instead of chucking up 3's then I would say the coaching staff isn't doing the right thing. Trae Young could go 1-15 from 3 in practice and it be the right decision for him to keep chucking them up. That's who he is. That's his game. 

If Zach Wilson's game is making plays, then let him work on making plays even if those plays aren't working right now. That's the damn point of practice.  He hasn't even played a pre-season game and everyone is freaking out over 10-17 on August 10th. It's beyond insanity. 

I won't even care if he goes 10-17 on Saturday. The point is that we want him to be good in September. 

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4 minutes ago, Action Zachtion said:

Hey do acknowledge that >75% of his passes were good enough for completions and he probably isn't the only player making mistakes?  

That’s all part of it.  This notion that we can’t discuss what going on until he’s a finish product is asinine.  As long as no one is making conclusions, I don’t see why folks can’t express thoughts on his present play and progress. 

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1 minute ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If you draft a 19 year old Trae Young and he is in practice only taking easy lay ups instead of chucking up 3's then I would say the coaching staff isn't doing the right thing. Trae Young could go 1-15 from 3 in practice and it be the right decision for him to keep chucking them up. That's who he is. That's his game. 

If Zach Wilson's game is making plays, then let him work on making plays even if those plays aren't working right now. That's the damn point of practice.  He hasn't even played a pre-season game and everyone is freaking out over 10-17 on August 10th. It's beyond insanity. 

I won't even care if he goes 10-17 on Saturday. The point is that we want him to be good in September. 

The problem with this analogy is that in this case, Trae Young is kind of missing lay-ups too.

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1 minute ago, legler82 said:

That’s all part of it.  This notion that we can’t discuss what going on until he’s a finish product is asinine.  As long as no one is making conclusions, I don’t see why folks can express thoughts on his present play and progress. 

Its based on preconceived notions and 2 bad practices.  Today sounds great for a rookie 

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4 minutes ago, Action Zachtion said:

?!?   He needs to be aggressive and test out the timing and windows and he doesn't get long to decide.   You want him to go with his instinct, watch tape, and improve his instinct.  

 

1 minute ago, Snook said:

He’s learning what he can and can’t get away with. Something that every qb goes thru.

Gents, respectfully....that's not how this works.  And if it was, how on earth is this good preparation for the rest of the team?  I know our conversations largely revolve around Wilson but he's not the only player you're getting ready for the season.  You dont just tell the rest of the team to relax and be patient while your rookie QB is just going to do some ****ery that he'll never be able to do in a game.  You're literally asking them to just waste all of your practices, reps, chance to make the team all so a rookie can figure out what he can get away with vs. teams that want to kill him.  How does that make a lick of sense?

 

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1 minute ago, Untouchable said:

We haven’t even seen the kid play his first pre-season game yet…

So what?  When we do, we’ll judge that too, good or bad.  This has been the case since the dawn of sports.  You are constantly being judged.  It never ends.  After he’s done playing, hopefully we will be judging his worthiness for the Hall.

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29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Only one statement is relevant today.  

10 practices, not one most have witnessed is too early.  No matter which jag you throw into the post.

So it is not too early to take note of his performances so far?  And if that is what you are saying then I agree for BOTH the rookie WR and QB

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2 hours ago, DoubleDown said:

I fully admitted it's early.  I think it's a legitimate question to ask.  When is the right time to start getting concerned?

Almost every single first and second round pick by Douglas (and there are quite a few of them) is either not playing or playing below reasonable expectations.

So you're not going to Double Down?

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2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

 

Gents, respectfully....that's not how this works.  And if it was, how on earth is this good preparation for the rest of the team?  I know our conversations largely revolve around Wilson but he's not the only player you're getting ready for the season.  You dont just tell the rest of the team to relax and be patient while your rookie QB is just going to do some ****ery that he'll never be able to do in a game.  You're literally asking them to just waste all of your practices, reps, chance to make the team all so a rookie can figure out what he can get away with vs. teams that want to kill him.  How does that make a lick of sense?

 

Back to the desire/objectivity thing.

Saleh is just saying positive coachy things.  No one should really believe that Wilson is making throws into double coverage to learn that he can't do it.  People who want to believe that everything is awesome everything is cool when you're part of the team are just eating up the fact that Saleh is just not saying, "yeah, he's doing stupid sh*t.  We need him to stop that."

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4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

 

Gents, respectfully....that's not how this works.  And if it was, how on earth is this good preparation for the rest of the team?  I know our conversations largely revolve around Wilson but he's not the only player you're getting ready for the season.  You dont just tell the rest of the team to relax and be patient while your rookie QB is just going to do some ****ery that he'll never be able to do in a game.  You're literally asking them to just waste all of your practices, reps, chance to make the team all so a rookie can figure out what he can get away with vs. teams that want to kill him.  How does that make a lick of sense?

 

It seems like you’re taking this to the extreme. He’s learning his limits and what he needs to improve on.

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3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Back to the desire/objectivity thing.

Saleh is just saying positive coachy things.  No one should really believe that Wilson is making throws into double coverage to learn that he can't do it.  People who want to believe that everything is awesome everything is cool when you're part of the team are just eating up the fact that Saleh is just not saying, "yeah, he's doing stupid sh*t.  We need him to stop that."

It’s confirmation bias season.

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Just now, legler82 said:

Tomorrow might sound better.

I saw in the Green and White game a busted protection where the DE had a short literly untouched run at the QB the direction they had him rolling and fans were ripping on Wilson for making a throw into a window with nothing there to stall a drive.   I think in a game he'd have to juke the guy or take a sack, but that's not the point,  I don't trust the reports.   There are 11 guys and the reports are making it all about 1.  

We can all see where he is vs. the Giants.  I like what I've seen in the short clips, but he has a long way to go.  Anybody expecting a fully baked QB needs to look at historical stats for rookie QBs.  24 TDs gets you #5 on the all time list.  

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Zach Wilson is a rookie QB and it sounds like the line is getting blown up every play. If it is, I'm not surprised he's had the practices he's been having. With that said, I am not there so it's hard to tell how bad it really is but it's been a reality check since the scrimmage.

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7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

If you draft a 19 year old Trae Young and he is in practice only taking easy lay ups instead of chucking up 3's then I would say the coaching staff isn't doing the right thing. Trae Young could go 1-15 from 3 in practice and it be the right decision for him to keep chucking them up. That's who he is. That's his game. 

If Zach Wilson's game is making plays, then let him work on making plays even if those plays aren't working right now. That's the damn point of practice.  He hasn't even played a pre-season game and everyone is freaking out over 10-17 on August 10th. It's beyond insanity. 

I won't even care if he goes 10-17 on Saturday. The point is that we want him to be good in September. 

Sure but the problem is, from all reports, he's not doing this off script/off platform stuff that made him a sexy prospect.  From all reports, it seems they're trying to get him to play within the pocket and closer to the LOS and within the offense.  So if you're doing that, then why is he working on what he can get away with?  That makes no sense.  He should be focused on executing the brand new offense he's learning, not ******* around with maybe I can do this...and again, how does that benefit anyone else on the team?  

To use your example, ofcourse you dont care if Trae Young goes 1-15 in practice doing something you expect him to do but you do care if he's throwing balls off the back board and throwing bounce pass lobs and trying to make backward half court shots when he's the PG trying to install an offense and get a team ready for the regular season.  

 

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1 minute ago, Snook said:

It seems like you’re taking this to the extreme. He’s learning his limits and what he needs to improve on.

I think every rookie is trying to figure out what it is they can get away with at this level.  Some just get away with more sooner than others.

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6 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Back to the desire/objectivity thing.

Saleh is just saying positive coachy things.  No one should really believe that Wilson is making throws into double coverage to learn that he can't do it.  People who want to believe that everything is awesome everything is cool when you're part of the team are just eating up the fact that Saleh is just not saying, "yeah, he's doing stupid sh*t.  We need him to stop that."

Oh I get it, it just baffles me that others dont.  Like you said, does he really need to throw the ball into triple coverage to know that there is a good chance it's going to get picked off?  Of course not, but to his credit, you're right. He's protecting him a bit with that comment for sure, I'm sure he's already sick of all the questions about his struggles. 

 

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2 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Oh I get it, it just baffles me that others dont.  Like you said, does he really need to throw the ball into triple coverage to know that there is a good chance it's going to get picked off?  Of course not, but to his credit, you're right. He's protecting him a bit with that comment for sure, I'm sure he's already sick of all the questions about his struggles. 

 

Saleh was refreshingly truthful when he said, "he's a rookie and this will get worse before it gets better."

That was honest, and frankly, the most hopeful thing I've heard.

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7 minutes ago, Snook said:

It seems like you’re taking this to the extreme. He’s learning his limits and what he needs to improve on.

Meh, I think I'm just trying to decipher coach talk vs. reality.  I dont believe you really think that Wilson needs to throw a ball into triple coverage to learn what he can and cant get away with that in the NFL.   I'm confident he's known that's no-no since like grade school.

 

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Just now, JiFapono said:

Meh, I think I'm just trying to decipher coach talk vs. reality.  I dont believe you really think that Wilson needs to throw a ball into triple coverage to learn what he can and cant get away with that in the NFL.   I'm confident he's known that's no-no since like grade school.

 

But like, are we talking about "throwing across his body into triple coverage" or like, which throws he can make in tight windows against NFL caliber defenders and which he can't. I largely interpreted the comments to be closer to the latter -- he needs to adjust to NFL speed and coverage vs. "he needs to stop doing ridiculously stupid things."

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2 hours ago, Action Zachtion said:

One thing I've noticed about Zach, he truly doesn't seem to GAF about stepping back in after a mistake.   Hopefully he keeps that, its a quality that might be the most important for a Jets rookie

That's the LDS in him. Bred to keep knocking doors after hearing "f*ck off" 100 times. 

image.png.01b8498830d692ad554c8740b2892e90.png

 

 

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2 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

But like, are we talking about "throwing across his body into triple coverage" or like, which throws he can make in tight windows against NFL caliber defenders and which he can't. I largely interpreted the comments to be closer to the latter -- he needs to adjust to NFL speed and coverage vs. "he needs to stop doing ridiculously stupid things."

I'm more so commenting on the multiple reports of him throwing into double coverage a lot.  Specifically today, like the last play of the practice that Maye picked off and then the video that was posted of that Darnold-esque lob he threw into tripe coverage during the scrimmage.  

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4 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Meh, I think I'm just trying to decipher coach talk vs. reality.  I dont believe you really think that Wilson needs to throw a ball into triple coverage to learn what he can and cant get away with that in the NFL.   I'm confident he's known that's no-no since like grade school.

 

I think the constant pass rush and blitzing is forcing his decision making and instead of constantly throwing it away he’s winging it.  He knows Lawson is coming every play.  He also knows the interior OL is worse than the DL.  So he definitely seems to be affected by the pressure, and saleh is probably ok with this b/c he knows teams are going to throw this at wilson early. 

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