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Training Camp Practice - 8/10


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2 hours ago, legler82 said:

Why can’t we judge the past and present then judge the future when it arrives?  If he’s struggling in the present, isn’t fair to judge that as we did his past to draft him so high?

Hasn’t every rookie QB struggled when they first entered the NFL? If that’s your thing to judge them all to be busts because QBs struggle at first, go ahead. As most QBs bust, there is a good chance anyone who already thinks Zach is a bust is right.

I just think it’s too early to judge what Zach will become. 
 

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Just now, Augustiniak said:

I think the constant pass rush and blitzing is forcing his decision making and instead of constantly throwing it away he’s winging it.  He knows Lawson is coming every play.  He also knows the interior OL is worse than the DL.  So he definitely seems to be affected by the pressure, and saleh is probably ok with this b/c he knows teams are going to throw this at wilson early. 

Ok fair but I dont see how that's a positive.  Learning to throw it away and live for another down is a skill.  How many times over the years did you scream about that watching Sam?  To me, that's encouraging bad habits.  Especially for a kid who threw a ton of 50/50 jump balls in college.  And then you hear about how the plays are still going on after are supposedly would-be sacks, I just dont think that's a good thing to practice bad habits.  How many times over the years have you heard the expression, you play how you practice?  We are to think that's different for a 21 year old rookie? meh 

 

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3 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Lol. I dont think he’s out there trying throws with his eyes closed. I was taking it more of that he’s throwing the ball even if it’s tight coverage or if the read is not there. Or something along those lines.  

Again, that's fine...but I dont see how practicing bad habits is a good thing.  

I play golf.  If I go to the range and practice all the wrong sh*t just to see if I can get away with it, that's not going to help me shoot lower when it's go time for my tee time on Saturday.

 

 

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1 minute ago, All Gas, No Gase said:

Hasn’t every rookie QB struggled when they first entered the NFL? If that’s your thing to judge them all to be busts because QBs struggle at first, go ahead. As most QBs bust, there is a good chance anyone who already thinks Zach is a bust is right.

I just think it’s too early to judge what Zach will become. 
 

I think folks want to retain the right to be able to say a rookie is not looking good w/o it being considered digital child abuse.  Rookies will be judged throughout the league.  As a result, some will start, get benched, cut, traded, put on practice squads…etc.! 

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3 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I really wonder what the people who are saying there's nothing concerning in Wilson's performance think is going to happen on Saturday night?  He suddenly starts getting the ball out on time?  He doesn't throw into double coverage?  This is going to be a long year, and there should have been a better plan if the project QB turned out to be a project QB.

If his running game is working and he’s throwing on 2nd an5 or 3rd and 3 he’s more likely to be successful. That really can’t be simulated in practice without pads and or tackling. Give him a chance in a real game when the defense doesn’t necessarily know what’s coming before drawing conclusions. 

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7 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Ok fair but I dont see how that's a positive.  Learning to throw it away and live for another down is a skill.  How many times over the years did you scream about that watching Sam?  To me, that's encouraging bad habits.  Especially for a kid who threw a ton of 50/50 jump balls in college.  And then you hear about how the plays are still going on after are supposedly would-be sacks, I just dont think that's a good thing to practice bad habits.  How many times over the years have you heard the expression, you play how you practice?  We are to think that's different for a 21 year old rookie? meh 

 

I like that plays are going on after ‘sacks’ in practice.  These are legitimate simulations of pressure.  So what the jets coaching staff is saying is, ok, if you avoided the sack here, what would you do?  B/c they know teams are going to blitz wilson and force his hand.  This is truly practice for the first part of the season.  But i think the game plans are going to be simpler than this, they’re going to have safety valves to the rbs, moore is going to run shorter routes to get open quickly and there will be roll outs to get him into space.   I also think a guy like mims will be more useful early on b/c of his length but who knows if he plays.  

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1 minute ago, docdhc said:

If his running game is working and he’s throwing on 2nd an5 or 3rd and 3 he’s more likely to be successful. That really can’t be simulated in practice without pads and or tackling. Give him a chance in a real game when the defense doesn’t necessarily know what’s coming before drawing conclusions. 

He'll get his chances.  In the interim, I can be concerned about Sam Darnold 2.0 YOLO balls too.

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5 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Again, that's fine...but I dont see how practicing bad habits is a good thing.  

I play golf.  If I go to the range and practice all the wrong sh*t just to see if I can get away with it, that's not going to help me shoot lower when it's go time for my tee time on Saturday.

 

 

Yes but you might try to draw the ball or fade it, or try a flop shot or punch shot, to see if you can do it before trying it on the course. 

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9 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Ok fair but I dont see how that's a positive.  Learning to throw it away and live for another down is a skill.  How many times over the years did you scream about that watching Sam?  To me, that's encouraging bad habits.  Especially for a kid who threw a ton of 50/50 jump balls in college.  And then you hear about how the plays are still going on after are supposedly would-be sacks, I just dont think that's a good thing to practice bad habits.  How many times over the years have you heard the expression, you play how you practice?  We are to think that's different for a 21 year old rookie? meh 

 

Maybe there’s something there for practicing things even when you could just throw it away.

This is Rodgers:

“He’s big on in-practice creating havoc in situations where there isn’t necessarily any to be there,” Rosen said. “Take it to the next step. Mess with yourself. Throw off platform. Make it game-like. Make everything game-like and treat every rep as if you are on the final drive [in] the Super Bowl.”

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Again, that's fine...but I dont see how practicing bad habits is a good thing.  

I play golf.  If I go to the range and practice all the wrong sh*t just to see if I can get away with it, that's not going to help me shoot lower when it's go time for my tee time on Saturday.

 

 

 It sure hitting a four wood with your pants off isn’t quite the same as tossing up yolo balls!

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3 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Maybe there’s something there for practicing things even when you could just throw it away.

This is Rodgers:

“He’s big on in-practice creating havoc in situations where there isn’t necessarily any to be there,” Rosen said. “Take it to the next step. Mess with yourself. Throw off platform. Make it game-like. Make everything game-like and treat every rep as if you are on the final drive [in] the Super Bowl.”

I read that Saleh is not a fan of 7 on 7 and runs as little of them as possible.  He prefers team drills as they are more game like.   If anything, Wilson is probably getting more game like reps than most.  That’s good.

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This just about sums up the whole debate.

 

Robby Sabo

@RobbySabo

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1h

Robert Saleh on Zach Wilson's camp struggles: "The reality is, the result, especially in training camp, is a much bigger deal for you guys (media) than it is us. His process is exactly where we want it to be. ... The result is a pacifier to make people happy." #Jets

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13 minutes ago, docdhc said:

Yes but you might try to draw the ball or fade it, or try a flop shot or punch shot, to see if you can do it before trying it on the course. 

Actually, not really.  lol   I know I cant do those things, so I practice what I can do and try to get as mistake free as I can get.  If I go out and start hitting draws on the range well (I hit a fade) I will inevitably try it on the course and more then likely fail and potentially ruin a score.    This is exactly how Xander Schauffele lost the Masters on 16.  He said he was hitting draws on the range very well so he was confident to go with it in that situation instead of his natural fade and he put it in the drink.  

I get your point though but again, I just dont believe in practicing bad habits.

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5 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

I'm ok with AVT missing time because I just want him to recover and would hate to rush him back too soon only to see him suffer a serious injury. 

But man. I'm losing hope with Jabari Zuniga. I was hoping him returning to his natural 4-3 Florida Gators DE position would fire him up. But he's been an off-season disappoint for me so far I think I've only read his name being mentioned for making a play 1 or 2 times? 

That is like the Robby A. vs. Smith issue we had at WR where Snith was the bust 2nd round pick, but we made up for it with the UDFA Robby A. Now we likely did the same with UDFA Huff vs. 3rd round pick Zuniga. Huff seems to be tearing it up in camp almost as much as Lawson, so we should just consider Huff is the Edge Rusher we drafted to make an impact going forward and not Zuniga. 

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20 minutes ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Maybe there’s something there for practicing things even when you could just throw it away.

This is Rodgers:

“He’s big on in-practice creating havoc in situations where there isn’t necessarily any to be there,” Rosen said. “Take it to the next step. Mess with yourself. Throw off platform. Make it game-like. Make everything game-like and treat every rep as if you are on the final drive [in] the Super Bowl.”

I remember this quote, 1st thing is, this was like 10 years into Rodgers career.  lol   And "making it game like" - is not throwing into double and triple coverage and if you're treating each rep as the final drive of the Super Bowl, then you're not just doing ****ery to see if you get away with things.

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22 minutes ago, legler82 said:

I think folks want to retain the right to be able to say a rookie is not looking good w/o it being considered digital child abuse.  Rookies will be judged throughout the league.  As a result, some will start, get benched, cut, traded, put on practice squads…etc.! 

Lol digital child abuse? I have no idea how you came to that conclusion from my post. Drama much?

Everyone knows Wilson is struggling. That is part of the process. IMO It’s too early to know whether he will “start, get benched, cut, traded, put on practice squad” in the future.

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4 minutes ago, All Gas, No Gase said:

Lol digital child abuse? I have no idea how you came to that conclusion from my post. Drama much?

Everyone knows Wilson is struggling. That is part of the process. IMO It’s too early to know whether he will “start, get benched, cut, traded, put on practice squad” in the future.

We know he’s starting regardless; we’re just asking permission judge. 

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4 hours ago, TeddEY said:

I agree that he was good for a rookie.  However, that's not really what the hype on him was.

He was pretty good at pass pro until Baldinger started hyping him.  Then his play dropped off a bit.  

I think the way he man handled people in the run game was pretty special though.

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3 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

It will be different in games.

Keep in mind, they're really not blocking running plays with any force - and it's short spurts.

Lawson would be getting the sh*t kicked out of him on running plays, wearing him down, building Becton's confidence - keeping him a little off kilter.

Right now Lawson is basically just pinning his ears back - and running around a guy that's unable to use his biggest advantage.

Becton will be fine.

Dang straight.  Big Ticket would maul him the first quarter with run blocks and wear him out for the play action passes. 

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18 minutes ago, flgreen said:

This just about sums up the whole debate.

 

Robby Sabo

@RobbySabo

·

1h

Robert Saleh on Zach Wilson's camp struggles: "The reality is, the result, especially in training camp, is a much bigger deal for you guys (media) than it is us. His process is exactly where we want it to be. ... The result is a pacifier to make people happy." #Jets

Yup.

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17 minutes ago, UnknownJetFan said:

That is like the Robby A. vs. Smith issue we had at WR where Snith was the bust 2nd round pick, but we made up for it with the UDFA Robby A. Now we likely did the same with UDFA Huff vs. 3rd round pick Zuniga. Huff seems to be tearing it up in camp almost as much as Lawson, so we should just consider Huff is the Edge Rusher we drafted to make an impact going forward and not Zuniga. 

As long as you find players, it doesn’t matter what round. Fans over-index on draft round… once they get on the field the only consideration should be performance.

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2 hours ago, varjet said:

Mims is not a fit for this offense.  A 3rd round pick for him would be a home run.  

Not a fit?  Why?  

It's a west coast based offense that loves 6'3 receivers.

He's just mentally lost right now.  It happens.  Receiver used to be the hardest position after quarterback to break into the league as a rookie.  With all the recent rookie success people want instantly developed players.  

Let him sit and learn to to be a pro.  Use him as a special teams gunner and let him get the mental reps, he could break out next year. 

 

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Robert Saleh is impressed, not stressed, by Zach Wilson’s willingness to learn from mistakes: ‘The kid’s going to be fine’

NEW YORK DAILY NEWS |
AUG 10, 2021 AT 4:43 PM
 
 
 
 

Robert Saleh isn’t sweating over his rookie quarterback’s early struggles through camp.

Zach Wilson is going through a string of rookie woes and Tuesday was no different. Wilson went 10-for-17 with an interception and took six sacks according to ESPN.

 
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But Saleh isn’t pressed about that and has been even more impressed with Wilson’s resolve through the roller coaster.

“He’s awesome. He asks questions, he’s in the defensive coordinator’s office asking questions about scheme. And he’s an absolute sponge learning from mistakes, he’s trying stuff,” Saleh said to reporters. “A lot of stuff you see is he’s testing what he can and can’t get away with, which I think is awesome.

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“The kid’s going to be fine. He’s going through a process and what I love about it is he’s deliberate in his process and how he’s trying to find ways to get better. He’s focused on getting himself ready to be the best quarterback in the league and we’re all in love with his process.”

Process.

 
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That’s the word of the season for the Jets first year under a rookie head coach and quarterback. That’s all the 2021 season will be based on and during training camp as part of that journey.

And eventually, Wilson will start improving. It’s not a matter of if, but when.

FLORHAM PARK, NEW JERSEY - JUNE 15: Zach Wilson #2 of the New York Jets runs drills during New York Jets Mandatory Minicamp on June 15, 2021 at Atlantic Health Jets Training Center in Florham Park, New Jersey. (Photo by Mike Stobe/Getty Images) ** OUTS - ELSENT, FPG, CM - OUTS * NM, PH, VA if sourced by CT, LA or MoD **
FLORHAM PARK, NEW JERSEY - JUNE 15: Zach Wilson #2 of the New York Jets runs drills during New York Jets Mandatory Minicamp on June 15, 2021 at Atlantic Health Jets Training Center in Florham Park, New Jersey. (Photo by Mike Stobe/Getty Images) ** OUTS - ELSENT, FPG, CM - OUTS * NM, PH, VA if sourced by CT, LA or MoD ** (Mike Stobe/Getty Images)

It could come this next week, the first month of the season, or by the end of the year. And Saleh believes it’s only a matter of time.

“His process is exactly where we want it to be, his study habits are exactly where we want it to be, his demeanor on the practice field is exactly where we want it to be,” Saleh said. “But the result is, that’s a pacifier to make people happy. He’s going in the direction that he needs to go. He’s got the right mindset; he’s doing everything that he needs to do and when it clicks it clicks.”

There are positives to Wilson’s struggles. Most of his problems have come from dealing with the pass rush which has made him uncomfortable. The main culprit of that is the Jets defensive line, Saleh’s bread and butter for his defense.

Each practice, the unit has brought constant heat to put the former BYU quarterback under duress. The ringleader of that pressure has been Carl Lawson, who has lived up to expectations throughout camp. He also had three sacks on Tuesday.

“Carl Lawson, he ain’t been stopped yet,” Sheldon Rankins said a week ago and that message still permeates.

Each day, Lawson lives in the backfield as if he owns property behind the line of scrimmage. The former Bengal has been a pressure machine through camp just like he was last year when he had 32 quarterback hits — second in the NFL behind the Steelers’ T.J Watt — and 64 pressures, sixth most. Saleh isn’t surprised how dominant Lawson has been.

“He does it to everybody. You watch the tape, he beats everybody. I think he was top three in pressures and quarterback hits,” Saleh said. “It’s not foreign to him to win, but what’s cool though is his work ethic and the way he goes about his day-to-day process. He is relentless with his body.. There’s the old saying, “Hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard,” and this dude, not only is he talented, but he works his absolute butt off. And because of it you see results.”

Saleh sees Lawson as a player that transcends the scheme and if this momentum rolls into the season, then a double-digit sack season is inevitable. As long as the secondary can make quarterbacks hold the ball.

 
 
DJ Bien-Aime II

DJ Bien-Aime II

New York Daily News
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DJ covers the New York Jets for the New York Daily News and was born and raised in South Florida. DJ was a D1 athlete at the University of Louisville, and when he isn’t focusing on stories, he can be a bit of a Madden junkie.
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6 minutes ago, Jimmy 2 Times said:

Dang straight.  Big Ticket would maul him the first quarter with run blocks and wear him out for the play action passes. 

A big part of Becton's game is putting defenders on the ground with prejudice.  He can't (and shouldn't) really do that to his teammates in scrimmages.  But there's no reason he shouldn't blast away at whoever is rushing his side this Saturday (could it be Leo?).  And after two weeks of getting abused by Lawson, I fully expect Becton to want to take it out on somebody.  

Speaking of Lawson...I'm very curious to see what he does to Andrew Thomas now that he doesn't just have to tap the QB on the shoulder.  Hopefully Daniel Jones will get well acquainted with the turf.

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‘Relentless’ Carl Lawson is unstoppable at Jets training camp

By Ryan Dunleavy

August 10, 2021 | 4:33pm | Updated

 

The Jets soon might have to amend practice rules to give the offense a 12th player strictly in charge of double-teaming Carl Lawson.

Or maybe make Lawson count five Mississippis before he can rush the passer. Or tie one hand behind his back. Anything creative to level the playing field for the starting offense. 

If there is a Jets record for “sacks” in training-camp practices, Lawson is threatening to break it after he had three more on Tuesday in 11-on-11 periods to up his total to six in two practices this week. These are in addition to others scattered through the first two weeks of camp.

“If you watch the [game] tape, he beats everybody, so it’s not foreign to him to win,” head coach Robert Saleh said. “What’s cool though is his work ethic and the way he goes about his day-to-day process: He is relentless with his body. There’s an old saying that hard work beats talent when talent doesn’t work hard, but this dude, not only is he talented but he works his absolute butt off. And because of it, you see results.”

Carl Lawson had six “sacks” over the past two days.

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The Jets have tried – and failed – to plug holes through free agency in recent years, from cornerback Trumaine Johnson to running back Le’Veon Bell to center Ryan Kalil. The franchise has been in a search of a great pass-rusher even longer, since trading John Abraham to the Falcons in 2006.

Viewed through those prisms, there is reason to be skeptical of Lawson’s three-year, $45 million contract. But remove him from the shadow of other busts and there only is room for excitement that the Jets might have found the defensive equivalent of a franchise quarterback. 

“It’s historically hard [to find] in general,” Saleh said. “I always argue that for every quarterback you need two great edge-rushers. They are hard to come by. There are good edge-rushers around the league – don’t get me wrong – and there are a lot of good quarterbacks around the league, but those ones that transcend the game are rare through the history of time. To be able to get one in this building like Carl, it’s awesome.”

Here’s a small splash of cold water: Lawson has yet to make a Pro Bowl and has 20 sacks in 51 games over four seasons.

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Five Jets have made big early training-camp impression

The Bengals showed interest in re-signing Lawson but ultimately paid ex-Saints’ pass-rusher Trey Hendrickson the same $15 million-per-year average (four years total) in free agency, which begs the question: What was their hesitation to go all-in on Lawson?  

“You don’t just pass out dollars to someone because they make plays,” Saleh said. “There has to be a marriage in terms of philosophy. Every phone call we made, he exemplifies what [character] we covet in a player, so it’s very easy to hand out big checks to people who represent themselves like he does.”

Because there is no tackling the quarterback in practice, “sacks” are plays whistled dead by officials or when a defender taps the quarterback in a collapsing pocket. Lawson’s combination of brute strength, long arms and speed is creating fits for left tackle Mekhi Becton. 

“Carl is one of the better pass-rushers in the NFL and he’s been that for years,” right tackle George Fant said. “I think this situation is great for our offensive line to go against this guy. It’s harder to block in practice than in a game because they start to understand tendencies, so it gets you prepared.”

What do you think? Post a comment.

Lawson was second in the NFL last season in quarterback hits (32), though most didn’t translate to finishing the play like T.J. Watt’s 41 hits, which became 15 sacks for the Steelers. It’s a similar narrative that surrounded Jets draft pick Leonard Williams, who was always buzzing the quarterback but didn’t break through until 11.5 sacks with the Giants in the sixth year of his career. 

“I get sacks are what we all gear into,” Saleh said, “but when you are disrupting the quarterback, you are disrupting the game.”

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Exactly.  He's stepping up to a new level in a league that is 100000x better then what he just face and nobody has any idea on how he fits but he's out there just taking luxuries with snaps, trying sh*t on for size instead of mastering his craft?  That makes zero ******* sense.

That's like going to the gym and practicing backwards half court shots "to just see if maybe I can make them in the game".  Instead of going to the gym and practicing the exact looks you know you're going to get based on your role in the offense.

And if this true; how does this help the rest of the offense get adjusted? 

Totally moronic. 

You might be taking the statement too literal.  

I thought he meant Wilson was testing things like window sizes and looking the defense off.  That's a legit thing to try in practice.  

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1 hour ago, JiFapono said:

Again, that's fine...but I dont see how practicing bad habits is a good thing.  

I play golf.  If I go to the range and practice all the wrong sh*t just to see if I can get away with it, that's not going to help me shoot lower when it's go time for my tee time on Saturday.

 

 

You don't try weird stuff on the range?  What happens if you need to flop over a bunker to a green sloping away from you or hook the ball 90 degrees around a willow tree directly in your path?  I try crazy sh*t all the time.  

 

Bellicheat gets praised all the time for practicing things other coaches never even thought of.  

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5 hours ago, Lith said:

Been a while since we have had a guy who can pick up 3rd and 1 or 4th and 1 on the ground consistently.  Perine could be a valuable piece if he carves out a role as short yardage back.

Kind of makes one pine for the old Gore up the gut days.

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