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Seahawks are “exasperated” with Jamal Adams


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2 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

Yeah, so, looking at the teams pass defense over the whole season isn't cherry picking.  It's how you evaluate a teams pass defense over a season.  Looking at how the defense does with a player in vs. out isn't cherry picking either, it's the best way to see if there is a change.

And, if "it's very likely that without Adams teams would have made different adjustments and Seattle D might have been worse," why, specifically, was Seattle's defense actually better when he was hurt?

There's no sense in going any further with this, since all the data is on my side of the argument and on your side is "Seahawks/Pete Carroll = GOOD; therefore, trading for Jamal Adams and Jamal Adams=GOOD."  Also, Pete Carroll's non-Russell Wilson record in Seattle is 14-18.

 

Statistics are data, conclussions aren't they are opinions.  If you don't know what the data means they aren't relevant to your opinion.  

Russell Wilson without the Number 1 D in the NFL has a lossing record in the playoffs.

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8 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Statistics are data, conclussions aren't they are opinions.  If you don't know what the data means they aren't relevant to your opinion.  

Russell Wilson without the Number 1 D in the NFL has a lossing record in the playoffs.

And the data says the seahawks pass defense is one of the worst ranked in the NFL, got worse last year (we can't prove causation, but in correlation with Adams's arrival) and was improved in games last year in which Adams did not play.  None of that is up for debate.

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8 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yes to much of this, but I still direct more of my schadenfreude to Adams (and his legion of misguided supporters, including several Jets fans who post here like @Pac, @JiFapono, @Defense Wins Championships, @bitonti, @More Cowbell, @NYJ1, @Larz among others who ripped on Joe Douglas for his  treatment of Adams, only to be silenced by the greatest trade in franchise history; these posters were as wrong as wrong could be with basically all their predictions no matter how they try to argue otherwise and revise history, and have been getting ready to celebrate Adams’ new contract for a full year and counting) than I do Seattle.  Narcissists getting a comeuppance is a joyful day.  Seattle just misread the situation here and over-valued a Box Safety with a lot of Twitter followers.  Sucks to suck and oh well, but I’m not laughing at them nearly as much.  

Seattle is seeing Adams for what he is now and aren’t willing to double down.  Smart if they stick to it.  And it ensures Adams has to wait even longer or try to push them to deal him to a 3rd team, which is all delicious, so that helps their cause too.  It’s all so very validating to those of us who saw through Adams early on.  

Adams has made millions, yes, but I can still laugh at his relative unhappiness at the moment when compared to other far more likable and better paid defensive players in the league.  Sucks to be Seattle AND you suck Jamal. You bring this all on yourself and haven’t won a thing in your life.  Your tears only bring me joy. 

Finally, f**k you Mike Maccagnan for picking a Box Safety over Pat Mahomes because of Christian Hackenberg.  He’s an unemployed millionaire who deserves to be fired into the sun.  

WTF kind of weird victory dance do you think you are doing here?  This hit piece on Jamal doesnt prove anything you think you said that makes you think you're suddenly vindicated.  lmfao   Whereas, my entire take was spot on and everything I said, has been backed up with factual events and not feelings  ie: the 2 1st rounders we received and Seattle offered him top safety money.  Putting me squarely in the win column in this conversation. 

Wake up, buddy, Jamal won.  He got out of NY and was offered top safety money on a SB caliber team and he's negotiating for more.  Kudos to him, that's his right.  WTF do I care if Jamal is playing hard ball?  That's Seattle's problem.  It's up to him if he wants to join a team that has Super Bowl potential while the Jets will continue the longest playoff draught in the NFL.

 

 

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17 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

And the data says the seahawks pass defense is one of the worst ranked in the NFL, got worse last year (we can't prove causation, but in correlation with Adams's arrival) and was improved in games last year in which Adams did not play.  None of that is up for debate.

We also know one of the best defensive HC in the league who has a huge imput into the players they covet offered him the highest salary for a Safety in NFL history.  

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2 hours ago, nycdan said:

The Seahawks have a bigger issue with Jamal than just the cost of him being tagged. If they tag him, they can't use it on DK Metcalf who is also looking for a big payday.  So Jamal could, in theory, end up costing them two firsts and a top, young WR.  Or they could end up eating crow on Jamal and letting him walk in order to keep Metcalf (which is probably far smarter).  

There's really no way they come out of this happy.

Seahawk fans have finally woken up to this as being a horrible trade although some have taken the viewpoint that the picks would have been wasted there anyway.  Sound familiar? :)

I laugh at some of the things Adams was quoted to have said after the trade about how happy he was going to be in Seattle and that he had faith that the money would take care of itself.  On the other hand, he did have some very pointed and truthful things to say about Gase, which we are now all completely in agreement with:

“I don’t feel like he’s the right leader for this organization to reach the Promised Land.”

“We had a solid relationship. I don’t hate Adam Gase. You know, I don’t hate Adam Gase. I have no problem with Adam Gase. I just didn’t feel he handled certain situations well as a head coach, and that’s just my opinion. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.”

 

The DK Metcalf thing might be to Jamal advantage.  He knows they don't want to lose leverage in that negotiation - which they will if they plan on tagging JA

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4 hours ago, nycdan said:

2022 Projected Franchise and Transition Tenders

Position Franchise Tag Transition Tag
QB $28,560,000 $25,743,000
DE $20,274,000 $16,788,000
WR $19,170,000 $16,913,000
LB $17,871,000 $15,251,000
CB $17,568,000 $15,222,000
DT $17,387,000 $13,951,000
OL $16,820,000 $15,144,000
S $13,553,000 $11,504,000
RB $12,836,000 $10,295,000
TE $11,331,000 $9,607,000
ST $5,580,000 $5,076,000

It's just over $4M difference next year, but yeah, this is a slippery slope if players can arbitrarily change their position designation based on how they lined up.  Not saying the truth isn't somewhere in the middle, but it's going to tear apart the entire system if they allow this to be challenged every time a team franchises a player who isn't a DE or WR.

He can certainly try, but there's very little reason to believe he'd succeed.  Jimmy Graham tried a comparable move a few years back (wanting to be designated as a WR rather than TE on his franchise tag from the Saints) while having a much better argument to make, and a far more significant financial difference, yet was still ruled against.  Adams isn't the only box safety in the league, and they're all pooled into the safety franchise tag numbers, not LB.

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4 minutes ago, batman10023 said:

The DK Metcalf thing might be to Jamal advantage.  He knows they don't want to lose leverage in that negotiation - which they will if they plan on tagging JA

That party doesn't start until after the 2022 season.  Metcalf will probably get reworked early since he makes so little now, he'll probably want to redo his deal sooner rather than later.  They won't have to dangle the tag over his head until 2023.   That is an eternity in Jamal Adams years.

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12 minutes ago, Biggs said:

We also know one of the best defensive HC in the league who has a huge imput into the players they covet offered him the highest salary for a Safety in NFL history.  

Well that was an awfully quick change from your argument in support of hard data over completely subjective opinions.

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7 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That party doesn't start until after the 2022 season.  Metcalf will probably get reworked early since he makes so little now, he'll probably want to redo his deal sooner rather than later.  They won't have to dangle the tag over his head until 2023.   That is an eternity in Jamal Adams years.

I find that amazingly funny for some reason.  He ages to the beat of his own personal calendar.  That's extremely narcissistic even for a die-hard narcissist.

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8 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

Well that was an awfully quick change from your argument in support of hard data over completely subjective opinions.

There is no hard data.  It's all subjective opinion.  He's an all pro Safety in the NFL.  Even that's subjective opinion.

Hard data is nonesense on this board.  None of us are willing to do the hard statistical work including understanding the variables to use it for anything other than a subjective argument to support an opinion.

Everything I say on this board is my opinion.   I wasn't making an argument based on data.  I don't have it neither do you or anyone else.  You can look at his PFF data and even that is subjective.

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35 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Wake up, buddy, Jamal won

Jamal won,  the Jets won and Seattle lost so hard....

Jamal is still an extremely overrated overinflated garbage can with a significant blindspot in the coverage department....

On top of this Jamal still has room to lose if he shoots his way out of Seattle with no contract.

If that ends up being the case he will have solidified a  reputation as the most toxic self serving strong safety in the history of the league. He will still not have the contract he believes he is worth and no one will want to pay for his services. 

Good luck to him and his undying fanclub.

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47 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

WTF kind of weird victory dance do you think you are doing here?  This hit piece on Jamal doesnt prove anything you think you said that makes you think you're suddenly vindicated.  lmfao   Whereas, my entire take was spot on and everything I said, has been backed up with factual events and not feelings  ie: the 2 1st rounders we received and Seattle offered him top safety money.  Putting me squarely in the win column in this conversation. 

Wake up, buddy, Jamal won.  He got out of NY and was offered top safety money on a SB caliber team and he's negotiating for more.  Kudos to him, that's his right.  WTF do I care if Jamal is playing hard ball?  That's Seattle's problem.  It's up to him if he wants to join a team that has Super Bowl potential while the Jets will continue the longest playoff draught in the NFL.

 

 

Hey. You know I've seen you around and I don't do this very often (so I'm a little nervous!!!) but here goes nothing........... can I buy you a Blitz Boy Luv Juice?  

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12 hours ago, Icer said:

Seattle will cave and bump up the offer on the table. Jamal won't play on those 1 year deals and they know it. Throwing money at a sunk cost, but that's their problem. 

 

Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you!

I'm not so sure, there are really steep fines that Jamal faces for holding out. The Seahawks would recover cap space for the following year.

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1 hour ago, Doggin94it said:

I think if he gets to FA he'll set the market; it's just what happens for guys in the relative top tier of their position (barring the covid cap apocalypse), and while there are aspects of the game he's not great at, he does what he does at an elite enough level that he's in that top tier. But yeah, that's the gamble. My point is that Seattle's offer isn't so much better than (or so close to) his BATNA that it's worth taking if he can mitigate the injury risk

I don't know. I think it's way too early to make such a prediction for any player (a non-QB in particular). He'd have to have 2 more consecutive years making a case for being the best safety in the league - or just about the best, since the actual best isn't necessarily a FA at the same time - and given how many things that can happen that could get in the way of that, I think that's a tall order. It's certainly not without its risks, injury aside. 

What would his market value be if Carroll stopped blitzing him so much? A big part of his perceived value is he has a nose for the QB when he blitzes, but iirc Carroll already said they're looking to do that less because of the additional strain it puts on the secondary on those majority of blitz snaps where Adams doesn't sack (or even necessarily hurry) the QB. 

Also if he ends up with a wear & tear or nagging type injury (he's still young, but just throwing it out there), where there isn't one definitive "he got severely injured on this one play right here" scenario, I don't think a LofL policy is going to cover that. If he has some nagging injury where he's almost always at 50-75%, and his market value drops because of it - poorer results on the field, and even causing him to get yanked off the field more often - are you sure an insurance policy is going to cover that? I'm far from an insurance expert, but I'd think those policies cover definitive, specific incidents that result in loss of future earnings.

It's just a matter of opinion, but mine is that Seattle's offer is better than you're making it out to be, and his risk in not signing it isn't as low as you're thinking. 

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2 hours ago, TeddEY said:

Considering the more tape we get, the more he doesn't look like the best safety in the NFL, I'm not sure why a monster deal is expected in 2 years if he can't get one now.

Not our problem, but it almost was so it's obviously an interesting topic to Jets fans. But yeah that's what I think, too.

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8 hours ago, mrcoops said:

This would be an ideal time for the Jets to announce a long-term contract with Marcus Maye, mainly for the giggles.

Stupid CBA won't allow it, but it would be fun.

Announcing the agreement GM Joe Douglas could say, "We believe that Marcus is the best safety in the NFL, bar none. He is exceptional in coverage, and shows true leadership both on and off the field. Marcus has handled himself like a true professional throughout his Jets career, including during recent contract negotiations. Marcus never let his desire for a new contract get in the way of his commitment to the Jets and his teammates, and acted with maturity and professionalism throughout the process. We are delighted to reward his excellent play and commitment to the Jets with a new contract that will truly ensure that he remains a Jet for life."

 

Oh man that would be cool.  But for now, it suffices for me that Marcus Maye's 2021 salary, per https://overthecap.com/position/safety/, is listed at $10.6M while Jamal Adams' is $9.9M. 

There's so much gleeful joy to be derived at every turn of this wonderful saga.  

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6 hours ago, TeddEY said:

When they franchise him, or trade him, or ultimately let him go, at least their colossal mistake can be pinned on him being a bitch.  How many people are going to take Jamal’s side here, when highest paid safety ever isn’t enough.

@Pac, for one.

Pac said Jamal Adams was the right pick over Mahomes and still says so to do this day.

Pac said Jamal Adams would get paid by Joe Douglas.

Pac was right that Adams would get traded only for a king's ransom, so he got one right.

Pac preferred Darnold over the previous draft class QB options and still does, and hates how Darnold (due $20M in 2022) was treated by Joe Douglas.  He also still loves Mark Sanchez and Geno Smith and is still waiting for each of their ascensions.  

Pac said he "couldn't wait" for Adams to get his contract.  He's still waiting.  Maybe at his 3rd stop Adams will finally get it. 

Reminds me of the South Park episode where Canada strikes.  The Prime Minister keeps waiting for the world to give Canada more money.  He finally settles for some coupons in order to get something, pretends it was a big deal that Canada "won", after which the Canadian citizens set him adrift on the ice.  Pac is the Canadian prime minster:

 

 

 

 

 

I look forward to the day Pac provides the #'s that definitely will NOT win the lottery so I can win a lot of money. 

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

WTF kind of weird victory dance do you think you are doing here?  This hit piece on Jamal doesnt prove anything you think you said that makes you think you're suddenly vindicated.  lmfao   Whereas, my entire take was spot on and everything I said, has been backed up with factual events and not feelings  ie: the 2 1st rounders we received and Seattle offered him top safety money.  Putting me squarely in the win column in this conversation. 

Wake up, buddy, Jamal won.  He got out of NY and was offered top safety money on a SB caliber team and he's negotiating for more.  Kudos to him, that's his right.  WTF do I care if Jamal is playing hard ball?  That's Seattle's problem.  It's up to him if he wants to join a team that has Super Bowl potential while the Jets will continue the longest playoff draught in the NFL.

 

 

The Jets won and I do not think you would find anyone on the planet who would redo Seattle's side of that deal today.  You would be hard pressed to find a football fan that would not run to the bank in order to redo the Jets side of that deal again today.

Not even you

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2 hours ago, JiFapono said:

WTF kind of weird victory dance do you think you are doing here?  This hit piece on Jamal doesnt prove anything you think you said that makes you think you're suddenly vindicated.  lmfao   Whereas, my entire take was spot on and everything I said, has been backed up with factual events and not feelings  ie: the 2 1st rounders we received and Seattle offered him top safety money.  Putting me squarely in the win column in this conversation. 

Wake up, buddy, Jamal won.  He got out of NY and was offered top safety money on a SB caliber team and he's negotiating for more.  Kudos to him, that's his right.  WTF do I care if Jamal is playing hard ball?  That's Seattle's problem.  It's up to him if he wants to join a team that has Super Bowl potential while the Jets will continue the longest playoff draught in the NFL.

 

Hahaha you lost!!!  Jamal hasn't been paid and hasn't won sh*t.  You are so predictable hahahahahah.  Can't just sit there in your wrongness and say nothing, or say you got this wrong, you simply had to respond like anyone could predict.  

You sided with Pac and DWC and lost miserably, and still can't take the L!  Narcissists unite!  Jamal Adams, JiF, Pac and DWC!  Quite the coalition.  You will take the L and like it, and I will enjoy my victory lap even more.  Jamal Adams sucks.

Still ❤️ you but holy sh*t man just let yourself be wrong once in a while.  It's OK.  I was wrong about Ryan Fitzpatrick in 2016, wrong about Darnold being "the guy", I was wrong about Quinnen Williams being a bust, I appear to be wrong about several members of the JD 2020 draft class, and so many other things.  Just say you were wrong, you can do it!!!

 

Willy Wonka Reaction GIF

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55 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I don't know. I think it's way too early to make such a prediction for any player (a non-QB in particular). He'd have to have 2 more consecutive years making a case for being the best safety in the league - or just about the best, since the actual best isn't necessarily a FA at the same time - and given how many things that can happen that could get in the way of that, I think that's a tall order. It's certainly not without its risks, injury aside. 

What would his market value be if Carroll stopped blitzing him so much? A big part of his perceived value is he has a nose for the QB when he blitzes, but iirc Carroll already said they're looking to do that less because of the additional strain it puts on the secondary on those majority of blitz snaps where Adams doesn't sack (or even necessarily hurry) the QB. 

Also if he ends up with a wear & tear or nagging type injury (he's still young, but just throwing it out there), where there isn't one definitive "he got severely injured on this one play right here" scenario, I don't think a LofL policy is going to cover that. If he has some nagging injury where he's almost always at 50-75%, and his market value drops because of it - poorer results on the field, and even causing him to get yanked off the field more often - are you sure an insurance policy is going to cover that? I'm far from an insurance expert, but I'd think those policies cover definitive, specific incidents that result in loss of future earnings.

It's just a matter of opinion, but mine is that Seattle's offer is better than you're making it out to be, and his risk in not signing it isn't as low as you're thinking. 

I think he is overplaying his hand.  He was hurt all last year and should probably have been shut down.  He had his shoulder repaired this offseason.  The wear and tear is a huge concern.  If he isn't in the box and putting pressure on his value goes way down.  

That's his problem in a nutshell.  Highly productive in the box safety like a highly productive running back is a high wear and tear diminshing return position.  He's best years may already be behind him.

You can make the argument in a league where defensive backs have been nutered by rules pressure is the best way to slow down NFL offenses.  Jamal's value is pressure on the QB not coverage.  

Jamal is going to get paid based on pressure.  If he's body can't hold up or Seattle wants to scheme differently he's value goes down.

Budda Baker is probably the best all around safety in the NFC west right now. He got a monster deal that is allready in the rear view mirror of what Jamal got offered.  

Jamal is overplaying his hand but Seattle is in a box becuase they overpaid to get him and obviously believe in a division with Murray, Stafford and Garrapollo/Lance, they need to pressure the QB and have put a premium on getting a deal with him.  From outside it seems crazy that Jamal didn't blink but we have seen teams draw a line in the sand and move it all the time. 

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12 minutes ago, EM31 said:

The Jets won and I do not think you would find anyone on the planet who would redo Seattle's side of that deal today.  You would be hard pressed to find a football fan that would not run to the bank in order to redo the Jets side of that deal again today.

Not even you

Much like Pac, JiF can't admit he's wrong, ever.  His personality type prevents him from being able to do so, I'm afraid.  It's sad and funny all at once.  

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