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13 hours ago, Vader said:

We’ll see how it pans out. He’s as bit jargon-y as far as i can see which reminds me of Mangini and Bellichik, or a management consultant…

Oh so he reminds of you of a 6x SB winner.  So that makes sense while backing into a “2020-21 Belichick sucks now” argument I suppose?

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12 hours ago, Warfish said:

Haven't seen remotely enough to form a legitimate opinion based on facts.  One preseason game doesn't cut it.

Ask again in Week 8.

I swear, I think some of you literally are racing each other to be the first to say how much they love this new guy or that guy, so you can say later "I LOVED HIM FIRST!!!!"

Chill out.  Not a one of you has enough info yet to form any kind of cogent opinion that could be supported by facts.  


Why comment in these threads that you don’t agree with having been created?  Why not scroll past?  Do you really need the internet kids to get off your lawn that badly?  

This is a message board sir.  Some threads aren’t meant for everyone to be required to enter.  The thread title wasn’t “Why Saleh will win a SB year one.”  It’s “Initial thoughts on Saleh”.  That was it, and the comments herein have followed nicely in suit, with no one really going off the handle in either direction.  In that light your criticism is straight unnecessary and kind of rude.

Don’t be a message board cop or thread police.  We already have one of those and his name rhymes with Shmoe Milly.  We don’t need more than one of those. 

tl;dr version:  “Ok Boomer”.

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12 hours ago, redlichtie said:

I love him, I love them all….but if we start the season 2-7 then it’s all for sh!t…..let’s see how they play 

No HC can save a bad roster (which we have for the time being) from a 2-7 start.  Saleh talks a lot about how adversity is necessary to grow your program.  A 2-7 start can counterintuitively very well lay the foundation for a 2022 playoff appearance. 

The big caveat to everything I just said above:  It does need to be “competitive 2-7” if that makes any sense. Close losses are fine.  Especially if a few of them are shootouts.  No more 13-10 games please.

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11 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

I just don't think this is true.  Not at all actually.

We are the youngest team in the league, starting rookie QB and a new offense and defense.  Starting 2-7 is the likely outcome and what we should be expecting.

But if the team and ZW is showing growth, playing smart and flashing that potential than 2-7 is totally fine.

I love this team and think it's the most talent/potential this we may have ever had - but I also think it's a 4 to 5 win team.

To be fair, I was 4 large G&T’s down at this point last night so the tongue-in-cheekness may have seemed more obvious at the time, that said, the last 5 words are the key here and still stand ……

Lets’ see how they play

Since 1982 when I was introduced to this godforsaken, tortuous entity in Kelly Green, i’ve rarely been more excited about what I’m seeing and what lies ahead. However, close on 40 years of hurt and shattered expectations has taught me to wind it in, no matter how much I try to get carried away….burnt too many times….sorry…..so

Let’s see how they play

if Zach is completing 60%, has more TD’s than INTS with a handful of 300 yard games thrown in there and we are sitting at 2-7 (somehow, inexplicably, considering how well the rookie QB is obviously playing, maybe the defense is getting torched?) then I can just about see a scenario where I can live with the disappointment,but totally fine?….I think I’ll stop short of being ‘totally fine’ with that but I take your point about progress and development being as significant as the Win/Loss column.

The wider point is that every single year we get excited about training camp reports, 7 on 7 practices or largely meaningless pre-season performances against 2nd or 3rd stringers  and (almost) every single year reality punches us in the face early, and often.

So as exciting as all the noises coming out of Florham Park are, as exciting as it is to have so many young players seemingly ready to break out and show themselves as properly NFL worthy talent and as exciting as it is to have a front office and coaching staff that appears to be totally in synch and have a plan to bring the best out of every member of the roster….as thrilling as all that is (and trust me my glass is half full, I just want to be excited and entertained by this team after years of dull ineptitude, I’ll take the odd tough losses if it’s watchable and there’s hope)……I’m going to temper the rising excitement this time by reminding myself I’ve been suckered this way too many times and……so…..

Let’s see how they play

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53 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No HC can save a bad roster (which we have for the time being) from a 2-7 start.  Saleh talks a lot about how adversity is necessary to grow your program.  A 2-7 start can counterintuitively very well lay the foundation for a 2022 playoff appearance. 

The big caveat to everything I just said above:  It does need to be “competitive 2-7” if that makes any sense. Close losses are fine.  Especially if a few of them are shootouts.  No more 13-10 games please.

I don’t disagree with you and the wider premise, if a cruel bounce of the ball here or there has us at 2-7 when we could easily have been 5-4 then I can see both the wood and the trees…..but if we are getting torn a new one on a weekly basis, if all the talk pre-season doesn’t bear out on the field then that’s a different matter…..

I’m hopeful…… there is clearly something about Saleh, he’s super intelligent, urbane, articulate and has a track record as a successful coordinator, he seems totally born to be a HC and I love the staff he’s built, but I have been here before. 

EDIT: yes to the “no more 13-10 games” if I’m being thrilled and entertained I’m fully bought in, shootouts mean the D is likely getting gashed though and I really want to see a positive start from that side of the ball. 
 

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Mangini - a Belicheck wannabe, did everything Belicheck did as a coach and lost his job twice, one with the Jets and then the Browns. Hasn't been hired as a head coach since!!!!

Rex Ryan - came in with a huge ego that he will not be kissing Belicheck's hand at all. The man only cared for his defense and whatever backpage headline he can muster up every week. Another fired twice one with the Jets and Bills and nobody wants to hire an ego for a head coach!!!

Gase - a walking disaster, who had only one accomplishment and thats being Peyton Manning's offensive coordinator. After that he had no clue how to run a team and got fired twice, one with the Jets and Miami.

 

Saleh is the total opposite of those individuals, he will be in total control of both the offense and defense. He won't be on the sidelines calling the plays on offense or defense like his predecessors did every week. What he will be doing is coaching the players and his coaching staff to make sure that everyone is doing their job.  He might me aggressive in his words, but what coach isn't? 

IMO its only preseason, wait until this team starts the season, then we can all criticize on a week to week basis on how he's doing. I still believe like clay, he has a lot to mold!!!! Most of these players are still learning his system and you can see the enthusiasm in their eyes for the chance to play.

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14 hours ago, Vader said:

We’ll see how it pans out. He’s as bit jargon-y as far as i can see which reminds me of Mangini and Bellichik, or a management consultant…

Yeah, he, to the outside doesnt remind me as that over the top tough guy Mangini project himself to be and he much more of a player coach and people person than Bellichick 

I get the impression the Saleh we see on the podium is the real life Saleh I read a lot how different Mangini and a Belichick are outside of what they project.

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When your coach cares about you as a person first and player second, its going to create a great culture IF that coach is also talented enough to get results on the field.

So far I absolutely love the way Saleh handles the players and media.  He isnt a typical players coach who lacks discipline.  He instead is trusting his way of doing things to get the right guys in place to help deliver his message.   He brought in LaFleur and an excellent OL coach and seems to be really well-respected around the league so things look very positive so far.

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Everything looks good to me so far. He really does seem to combine a number of good attributes while sporting a likeable personality without giving a sense of being overwhelmed.  His dedication to young players is refreshing.  

The one thing we haven't yet seen and can't until week 1 is how he manages a real game.  Can he make adjustments when things aren't going well?  That's something our last few coaches have absolutely sucked donkey-a&& at.  It would be nice to have some confidence that our coach can manage adversity.

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14 minutes ago, nycdan said:

Everything looks good to me so far. He really does seem to combine a number of good attributes while sporting a likeable personality without giving a sense of being overwhelmed.  His dedication to young players is refreshing.  

The one thing we haven't yet seen and can't until week 1 is how he manages a real game.  Can he make adjustments when things aren't going well?  That's something our last few coaches have absolutely sucked donkey-a&& at.  It would be nice to have some confidence that our coach can manage adversity.

This, to me, is the most interesting and unique things we've seen out of our GM/HC combo.  

We don't need to bring in high priced, over the hill FA's, just to play sh*tty.  It felt like our coaches and GM's felt the need to spend cap dollars and affraid to throw the young guys out there.

I think the Saleh/JD combo seem to believe in the philosophy that if the over the hill FA is likely going to suck anyway, we might as well see what we have with our young guys.  If some of them aren't good - so be it - ---- but some will surely turn out to be keepers. Having a constant flow of young guys on cheap contracts starting - allowing you to keep your good players and sign a high priced FA here or there that can make an impact.  

That seems like how you build a consistent winning franchise.  

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:


Why comment in these threads that you don’t agree with having been created?  Why not scroll past?  Do you really need the internet kids to get off your lawn that badly?  

Why does a fact-based and logical evaluation bother you so much? 

Why does a fan actually *shock* waiting for facts and evidence before forming an opinion seemingly get under your skin?

My post doesn't stop anyone from engaging in the usual early hyperbole and exaggeration and hype.  It's only my opinion.

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This is a message board sir.  Some threads aren’t meant for everyone to be required to enter.  The thread title wasn’t “Why Saleh will win a SB year one.”  It’s “Initial thoughts on Saleh”.

And my initial thoughts are "we don't have enough for any meaningful initial thoughts as yet".

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

In that light your criticism is straight unnecessary and kind of rude.

You're entitled to that opinion.

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Don’t be a message board cop or thread police.  We already have one of those and his name rhymes with Shmoe Milly.  We don’t need more than one of those. 

tl;dr version:  “Ok Boomer”.

You say what you want, I'll say what I want. 

Remember, you can always skip my posts just as easy as you think I should skip threads.

TLDR:  I don't really care what you think about my posting 80.

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Bobby Salad is looking great so far, but as Mike Tyson said, "everyone has a plan until they are punched in the face." The best coaches do their best coaching in adversity. I'm going to keep my powder dry on HC evaluations for now. However, regardless of his ultimate success and abilities, he has given the Jets a professional, serious football atmosphere. No circus, No cookies and milk, No gazing into the camera like a deer in headlights. And no meaningless rah rah speeches or coachspeak in response to questions from the podium. This was a much needed change. 

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8 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Why does a fact-based and logical evaluation bother you so much? 

Why does a fan actually *shock* waiting for facts and evidence before forming an opinion seemingly get under your skin?

My post doesn't stop anyone from engaging in the usual early hyperbole and exaggeration and hype.  It's only my opinion.

And my initial thoughts are "we don't have enough for any meaningful initial thoughts as yet".

You're entitled to that opinion.

You say what you want, I'll say what I want. 

Remember, you can always skip my posts just as easy as you think I should skip threads.

TLDR:  I don't really care what you think about my posting 80.


Ok Boomer.  Sure you don’t care what me or anyone else thinks.  Hence the neg rep and subsequent essay.  

This clearly really isn’t a community to you after all, or at least not one you respect enough to just leave people be (as in the collective, not talking about myself).  So that’s cool too.  You have opinions but hate when people express theirs in threads you don’t like.  Also totally cool, non-preachy behavior everyone always appreciates.  

It needed to be said.  Sorry not sorry.  Last word is yours.

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2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Ok Boomer.

Gen X actually.  Guessing you're a Millennial, right?

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 Sure you don’t care what me or anyone else thinks.

About my style of posting? 

Sorry, but no I don't intend to be quiet just because you may not like my specific opinion or viewpoint, nor would I expect you to do the same.

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 Hence the neg rep and subsequent essay.  

I generally try to respond to anyone who asks or addresses something to me, specifically.    

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

This clearly really isn’t a community to you after all, or at least not one you respect enough to just leave people be (as in the collective, not talking about myself).

"Leave people be"?  I think you may be confusing the real-world effect of posting a generic opinion. 

My post doesn't stop anyone else from posting anything they want.  

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You have opinions but hate when people express theirs in threads you don’t like.

Nope.  They should express what they think, and I'll express what I think.  Maybe we'll even have a nice chat about it.

Not sure why you seem to have such an issue with this idea.   

Instead of being all butthurt over my post style, you could (for example) have instead posted why you DO, in fact, think we have enough data to start evaluating Saleh and detail what those facts are.  That would certainly have been more productive IMO than this exchange.

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 Also totally cool, non-preachy behavior everyone always appreciates.  

I'm well aware there are posters here (as there was on JI) who don't like my style or viewpoints.  I can respect that. There are posters for whom I'm not a fan too.  I don't expect them to not post because of it. 

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It needed to be said.  Sorry not sorry.  Last word is yours.

If you feel it needed said, there is no reason to be sorry.  

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19 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I know we are all in the honeymoon phase with Saleh, but I have to say that he is quite different than I imagined.

To be honest I sort of expected a mini-Rex sort of coach, all energy and bluster and aggressiveness, but instead he seems super calm, introspective, very organized and detailed and quite focused on teaching and development.

His stance on rookies and the QB situation to me are a breath of fresh air and something I support 100%. I love that he is completely all in on Zach and Zach gets all the #1 reps and some additional as opposed to say Darnold who split reps and then for much of camp only played with the 3s.

I also love what he is doing at CB. It takes giant guts to basically do so young at QB and CB and just trust in your ability to teach.

From just the super small sample size of the first preseason game, our entire team seemed more organized and disciplined and cohesive than I can remember in quite a while. Hopefully that remains true.

We know the fire is there, but I was not expecting such an intelligent, thoughtful and organized coach as he seems to be. He seems like a coach that becomes a "players" coach by his obvious commitment and respect of his team, not from the short termed rah rah motivation we see in a lot of head coaches.

I am very impressed, and he could fall flat on his face when we fall on adversity but I will say that after the experiences of Bowles and Gase I wanted to be in a complete wait and see mode with Saleh but he is really winning me over and making me excited that he is driving the future of this team,

My favorite quote and echoes completely my thoughts on the rookies vs. veteran thing (Gase and Bowles favored "veterans" to an absurd and perverse level.

“I’ve said it before, I think, the difference between player A and player Z in the entire league, I’m not talking about superstars, I’m not talking about the Aaron Donald’s of the world, they’re unique,” Saleh said. “But the difference between player A and player Z is minimal and the only thing that keeps player Z from becoming player A is an opportunity and reps. Let’s see what happens. Does it always happen? It doesn’t, but unless you’re willing to be bold enough to coach your tail off and to invest as much as you can into these young men and give them the opportunity to be seen, give them the opportunity to get reps, and give them the opportunity to get better, you’ll never know what you might find. So, that’s just the belief and the philosophy of not only our coaching staff but the entire organization and that’s something we’re committed to.”

 

 

 

 

Liked the Head Coaching aspects in the 1st preseason as follows:

1) Doesn't call plays so he provides focus on game managing allowing him to prevent making basic mistakes like not knowing when to execute a challenge, which he did and did correctly, knowing when to go on 4th down and 1 say(Our short yardage execution needs work partially due to blocking and some of the plays called, but that is not a HC problem), etc. 

2) Has the team disciplined to where it seems they do not make continual mistakes hurting themselves. Hope this continues since I can remember too many seasons when this was the case with the Jets and being a fan for 50 years that says a lot. 

3) As you stated trusting certain things with rookies seems to make more sense at this stage with this team that the HC is doing. Like he stated a few weeks back, what is the point of necessarily having such a proven vet at QB as a backup when they are likely to lose as well(vet backups on the jets the last 15 starts 0-15). You likely with this young team have a better chance of winning with a backup like White or Morgan and if not they at least get better at real game execution. If into the first 4-6 weeks of the season we have a better record than expected maybe that thinking changes and a vet can be worked in as a backup, but at this point unless someone like a Foles is cut why take QBs that are journeyman off the scrap heap(unless I am wrong and they want to keep Josh Johnson).

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He’s the first professional we’ve hired in a long, long time. We may not produce right away, but I think respectability is on the table for this seasons expectations. 

For me, that is.

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45 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

He’s the first professional we’ve hired in a long, long time. We may not produce right away, but I think respectability is on the table for this seasons expectations. 

For me, that is.

Your takes on Saleh have been really solid, enjoyable to read, and worth paying attention to.  I like how you bring your knowledge of how good orgs should be run into your view of Saleh. Gives me a lot of hope in the Douglas/Saleh combo, for sure.  

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20 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Your takes on Saleh have been really solid, enjoyable to read, and worth paying attention to.  I like how you bring your knowledge of how good orgs should be run into your view of Saleh. Gives me a lot of hope in the Douglas/Saleh combo, for sure.  

Thanks. I like to use this example in how I think about this topic.

Ted Williams was arguably the best hitter in baseball history - and an absolutely terrible manager.

It’s one thing to build a wealth of expertise “doing the job” (in this case playing or even coordinating or position coaching). It’s entirely different to build the management skill set necessary to transfer that expertise into the performance, development and culture of a team.

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22 hours ago, johnnysd said:

I know we are all in the honeymoon phase with Saleh, but I have to say that he is quite different than I imagined.

To be honest I sort of expected a mini-Rex sort of coach, all energy and bluster and aggressiveness, but instead he seems super calm, introspective, very organized and detailed and quite focused on teaching and development.

His stance on rookies and the QB situation to me are a breath of fresh air and something I support 100%. I love that he is completely all in on Zach and Zach gets all the #1 reps and some additional as opposed to say Darnold who split reps and then for much of camp only played with the 3s.

I also love what he is doing at CB. It takes giant guts to basically do so young at QB and CB and just trust in your ability to teach.

From just the super small sample size of the first preseason game, our entire team seemed more organized and disciplined and cohesive than I can remember in quite a while. Hopefully that remains true.

We know the fire is there, but I was not expecting such an intelligent, thoughtful and organized coach as he seems to be. He seems like a coach that becomes a "players" coach by his obvious commitment and respect of his team, not from the short termed rah rah motivation we see in a lot of head coaches.

I am very impressed, and he could fall flat on his face when we fall on adversity but I will say that after the experiences of Bowles and Gase I wanted to be in a complete wait and see mode with Saleh but he is really winning me over and making me excited that he is driving the future of this team,

My favorite quote and echoes completely my thoughts on the rookies vs. veteran thing (Gase and Bowles favored "veterans" to an absurd and perverse level.

“I’ve said it before, I think, the difference between player A and player Z in the entire league, I’m not talking about superstars, I’m not talking about the Aaron Donald’s of the world, they’re unique,” Saleh said. “But the difference between player A and player Z is minimal and the only thing that keeps player Z from becoming player A is an opportunity and reps. Let’s see what happens. Does it always happen? It doesn’t, but unless you’re willing to be bold enough to coach your tail off and to invest as much as you can into these young men and give them the opportunity to be seen, give them the opportunity to get reps, and give them the opportunity to get better, you’ll never know what you might find. So, that’s just the belief and the philosophy of not only our coaching staff but the entire organization and that’s something we’re committed to.”

 

 

 

 

i like the quote.  i know i've always thought that teams all just about have the same level of talent but some have exceptional talent at some very key positions and they tend to be winners.  and the thing too is most of these players have been playing the game from a pretty young age so they really should be adaptable to different offenses and defensive schemes.  get them in there and see what they can do.

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10 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No HC can save a bad roster (which we have for the time being) from a 2-7 start.  Saleh talks a lot about how adversity is necessary to grow your program.  A 2-7 start can counterintuitively very well lay the foundation for a 2022 playoff appearance. 

The big caveat to everything I just said above:  It does need to be “competitive 2-7” if that makes any sense. Close losses are fine.  Especially if a few of them are shootouts.  No more 13-10 games please.

You think we still have a bad roster?

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Up to this point I have no problem with Saleh.  Seems like a good guy, the players like him, and a lot of National people thought it was a good hire.  Things have gone pretty smoothly so far.

What's going on with Becton (and I don't know what it is) seems to be the first bump in the road.

IF  Becton has another 5 sack practice I'm curious to see how he handles it.  He sent Mims down to the third team, will he do the same with Becton?

 

 

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11 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Oh so he reminds of you of a 6x SB winner.  So that makes sense while backing into a “2020-21 Belichick sucks now” argument I suppose?

I didn’t draw any conclusions at all from what I described tbh.

 

I actually like the mangini/bellichick management-consultant-esque model — but, the catch-phrase heavy, conceptual and cute jargon-y stuff is slightly annoying to an extent (full disclosure i am a management consultant). Because without results it really is quite meaningless. It could backfire magnificently (ala mangini) or it could not (ala Bellichik).

“Servant leadership” is case-in-point. It’s like something mangini would say because he thinks it is current management theory or read it in a Harvard Case Study or overheard on a Linked-In webcast.  

I’m all about the process… but there needs to be results. Not going to lick anyone’s balls until the results start coming in. Nice try though. 😂

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10 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Yeah, he, to the outside doesnt remind me as that over the top tough guy Mangini project himself to be and he much more of a player coach and people person than Bellichick 

I get the impression the Saleh we see on the podium is the real life Saleh I read a lot how different Mangini and a Belichick are outside of what they project.

Totally agree — he does rely on the catchphrases and jargon as concepts. That’s all i am referrring to, not whether or not he is a disciplinarian or players coach etc. 

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5 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Thanks. I like to use this example in how I think about this topic.

Ted Williams was arguably the best hitter in baseball history - and an absolutely terrible manager.

It’s one thing to build a wealth of expertise “doing the job” (in this case playing or even coordinating or position coaching). It’s entirely different to build the management skill set necessary to transfer that expertise into the performance, development and culture of a team.


Spot on there.  Great players generally can’t coach, because they’re so far ahead of their players in skill level it just doesn’t work.  Willians would tell players to try to hit the top half of the ball even as the ball is just a blur to most hitters. They gained nothing from his coaching as a result.

As has been said by you and others, Saleh is a servant leader.  That can work very well. 

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Let’s wait for an NFL game before we anoint him detail oriented and super calm. I wanna see how calm he is when Jets blow up a 2 TD lead in the last 2 minutes of the game. 

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