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The real test will be how Wilson looks at the end of the season or even early next season. Right now he's carrying the confidence of his college success and not knowing what he doesn't know. As he makes mistakes, teams figure out how to plan against him and that false confidence erodes we'll have to see whether he rises to the challenge or joins Darnold, Geno and Sanchez by falling apart. 

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3 hours ago, Warfish said:

If you added in something about "elite accuracy" and "better than Rodgers", this could be a literal quote from dozens of posters during Sam Darnold's first season.

This is the trouble I have with the analysis here at JN, the (generally) complete lack of objectivity combined with the massive hype of new exciting players, leads to bulk numbers of hyperbolic glowing posts just like the one above, declaring how amazingly special and great player X is before he's really proven anything at all.

I do like what I've seen from Wilson (said, I'll remind, as a Wilson doubter who wouldn't have picked him), it's been very impressive.  But we cannot just slip past that yes, it's been almost all against backups or 3rd stringers, and yes, it's vanilla preseason when coverages are about as bland and easy as they come.

It's why I keep repeating, Week 1 is the REAL first test of who Zack Wilson is and where he is in his development.  No vanilla.  No backups.  No clean pockets free of the blitz.  No (or minimal) scripted play-calling on either side.

If Wilson looks in Week 1 like he's looked in Preseason, that's gonna be a great start, a real reason for some measured excitement.  But I'm not buying into hype based on preseason.

Tony Romo, Aaron Rogers, Nate Burleson, Damian Woody, etc.  But Warfish isn't buying into the hype.

 

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14 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

Tony Romo, Aaron Rogers, Nate Burleson, Damian Woody, etc.  But Warfish isn't buying into the hype.

You understand this is what's called an argumentum ab auctoritate fallacy, right?

As previously noted, I'm very pleased with what I've seen through two preseason games vs. backups and vanilla defenses.  Wilson has played very well, and shown a number of good things.  So far, I have no criticism on him.

But I'll repeat myself:  Week 1 is the REAL first test of who Zack Wilson is and where he is in his development.  No vanilla.  No backups.  No clean pockets free of the blitz.  No (or minimal) scripted play-calling on either side.

If Wilson looks in Week 1 like he's looked in Preseason, that's gonna be a great start, a real reason for some measured excitement.  

It's funny to me this rather reasonable take seems to get under your skin.

 

 

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4 hours ago, Warfish said:

If you added in something about "elite accuracy" and "better than Rodgers", this could be a literal quote from dozens of posters during Sam Darnold's first season.

I'd love to see a post by anyone who started a thread even comparing Darnold to Rogers, made him out to be better than Rodgers or that he had elite accuracy after seeing Darnold play in his first season.

 

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5 hours ago, nycdan said:

When we won that first game and watched T-Law vanish in a puff of smoke before our QB-starved eyes, I was pretty upset.  At the time, I was thinking, well Fields isn't a bad consolation prize.  

Then it became clear that Wilson was going to be our consolation prize and I started to adjust, still lamenting the loss of Lawrence when we were so close...

Flash forward to now.  I think winning those two games might be the best thing that ever happened to this franchise.  Not saying Lawrence will not be very good or great, and not saying Wilson will be better, but at this point, there's nothing to suggest Wilson won't be a fantastic quarterback for us, hopefully for a very long time and I could not be more pleased.  Honestly, if I could switch Wilson for Lawrence straight up right now, I'm pretty sure I'd say no.

We've come a long way since last December.

Both T-Lw and Zach are pretty boys.... but I just couldn't handle a QB with longer hair than my wife. Old fashioned but a football player needs to look somewhat similar to a football player. 

Am I Right Tonight Show GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

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4 hours ago, Warfish said:

If you added in something about "elite accuracy" and "better than Rodgers", this could be a literal quote from dozens of posters during Sam Darnold's first season.

This is the trouble I have with the analysis here at JN, the (generally) complete lack of objectivity combined with the massive hype of new exciting players, leads to bulk numbers of hyperbolic glowing posts just like the one above, declaring how amazingly special and great player X is before he's really proven anything at all.

I do like what I've seen from Wilson (said, I'll remind, as a Wilson doubter who wouldn't have picked him), it's been very impressive.  But we cannot just slip past that yes, it's been almost all against backups or 3rd stringers, and yes, it's vanilla preseason when coverages are about as bland and easy as they come.

It's why I keep repeating, Week 1 is the REAL first test of who Zack Wilson is and where he is in his development.  No vanilla.  No backups.  No clean pockets free of the blitz.  No (or minimal) scripted play-calling on either side.

If Wilson looks in Week 1 like he's looked in Preseason, that's gonna be a great start, a real reason for some measured excitement.  But I'm not buying into hype based on preseason.

I actually think Week 2 is the big test. Belichick is known for completely ruining rookie QBs. If Zach plays well in that game it will be a huge positive sign. Even if he is just OK it would still be. 

Yes the same things were said about Sam. But can you honestly say that at this same point that Zach is not WAY above what Sam was?

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48 minutes ago, Warfish said:

  No (or minimal) scripted play-calling on either side.

 

 

 

I would think a regular season game which has a specific game plan has actually more scripting than a preseason game especially in relation to creating mismatches. People always say vanilla vs. vanilla as if it is much easier on the QB but that is not necessarily true.

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37 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Both T-Lw and Zach are pretty boys.... but I just couldn't handle a QB with longer hair than my wife. Old fashioned but a football player needs to look somewhat similar to a football player. 

Am I Right Tonight Show GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

I could have handled this guy on the Jets (not a QB but still😞

Veteran Steelers safety Troy Polamalu retires from NFL | Local Sports |  stlamerican.com

 

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9 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I could have handled this guy on the Jets (not a QB but still😞

Veteran Steelers safety Troy Polamalu retires from NFL | Local Sports |  stlamerican.com

 

That's more a Somoan cultural thing.

TL is from Tennessee.... that's more a "pretty boy thang"

 

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40 minutes ago, 32EBoozer said:

Both T-Lw and Zach are pretty boys.... but I just couldn't handle a QB with longer hair than my wife. Old fashioned but a football player needs to look somewhat similar to a football player. 

Am I Right Tonight Show GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

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I'd rather have a long hair don't care QB over a QB who you want to beat like a red headed step child.

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10 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

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I'd rather have a long hair don't care QB over a QB who you want to beat like a red headed step child.

Once again the over-reaction. A simple reply to my tongue-in-cheek response would have sufficed bro.

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1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I'd love to see a post by anyone who started a thread even comparing Darnold to Rogers, made him out to be better than Rodgers or that he had elite accuracy after seeing Darnold play in his first season.

 

If you'd like one about Darnold's "elite accuracy", here is one:

 

I can't be bothered to search for you.  If you want to read old threads, they're all there.

If you want to think no one compared Sam to Rodgers, that's fine too.  

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6 hours ago, WowOhWow said:

Are eating up the Zach Wilson tape.  They love it.

Lots of reasons to downplay his performances (against back ups, early in pre-season, etc.) but I've been watching this team for far too long (I'm likely on the older side of this board) and this QB is unlike any other QB we've had in here.  He is literally built for the modern NFL.  Quick twitch, great/natural thrower of the ball.

And watching the play design is like walking from a log cabin to a penthouse in the city.  What a difference from Gase's Neanderthal offense to this.  Wow.

Again...still expecting a lower win total but I love what I see from an overall team development standpoint, the coaching thus far.  This is what progression looks like.  It's entertaining and great to see.

I get what you're saying,  but let's define our terms. The former QBs on the networks telling us how awesome he is have said that about every high rated QB prospect for 20 years, and the YouTube guys pretending to be QB experts in their apartments on the weekends have zero credibility and are just mimicking the TV guys.

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22 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If you'd like one about Darnold's "elite accuracy", here is one:

 

I can't be bothered to search for you.  If you want to read old threads, they're all there.

If you want to think no one compared Sam to Rodgers, that's fine too.  

I wouldnt bother if I were you either.  Fans weren't saying that Darnold was better than  Rodgers.  

Let fans be fans and get excited without trying to prove them wrong.  You never know, he could be our guy.  Dont try to be a kill joy by making stuff up.  Scripted plays?  There are no games filled with scripted plays.  The D's are vanilla?  So are the offenses when youre not game planning for teams.  Works both ways.  

And Nico doesnt count.  😎

 

 

 

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16 minutes ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

I get what you're saying,  but let's define our terms. The former QBs on the networks telling us how awesome he is have said that about every high rated QB prospect for 20 years, and the YouTube guys pretending to be QB experts in their apartments on the weekends have zero credibility and are just mimicking the TV guys.

So you disagree?  From a Jets historical perspective these types of performances are commonplace?  Not noteworthy?

Give me a break.  If you can't see the difference between this kid and all the others I can't help you.

 

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6 minutes ago, WowOhWow said:

So you disagree?  From a Jets historical perspective these types of performances are commonplace?  Not noteworthy?

Give me a break.  If you can't see the difference between this kid and all the others I can't help you.

 

I already posted my opinion in multiple  threads. If you don't want to read responses to other threads, I can't help YOU.. 

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1 hour ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

His mechanics look good, he is in control, he sees the entire field, and he can hit the entire field. Those are observations, not conjecture or bullsh*t. Regardless of who he's playing, those are just observations. We have watched Darnold, Sanchez, and Geno miss wide open guys because they didn't even see them or get that far into their progressions. This kid is already making those reads and throwing to them. 

 

Hopefully he keeps progressing, but what we've seen are POSITIVES. We can't force other teams to play their starters  so we have to wait and see.

 

Enough is enough. You guys just looking for something to cry about.

Here ya go, Wow. See, I can LIKE Wilson as a fan and still understand that all the media shills and YouTube Jet Homer's are full of sh*t and just creating content. 

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47 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If you'd like one about Darnold's "elite accuracy", here is one:

 

I can't be bothered to search for you.  If you want to read old threads, they're all there.

If you want to think no one compared Sam to Rodgers, that's fine too.  

You missed Crusher's beautiful response to Nico:

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Let fans be fans and get excited without trying to prove them wrong.

How does my posting my own opinions not "let fans be fans"?

Do I control your fandom?  I sure hope not.

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You never know, he could be our guy.

He absolutely could be. 

Which is why I've said each time I've replied that "I'm very pleased with what I've seen through two preseason games vs. backups and vanilla defenses.  Wilson has played very well, and shown a number of good things.  So far, I have no criticism on him."

Seems that isn't good enough for you, because of the "preseason" qualifiers, eh.

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Don't try to be a kill joy by making stuff up.

Making stuff up, lol.  Yeah, totally, no one ever exaggerated/got ahead of themselves about Darnold.  Got it. :rolleyes: 

Also, if I can kill your joy, you're giving a random guy on the internet FAR too much power over your joy.  Just say'in.

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Scripted plays?  There are no games filled with scripted plays.  The D's are vanilla?  So are the offenses when youre not game planning for teams.  Works both ways.

Preseason isn't regular season.  This is so obvious it really shouldn't be something people argue about tbqh.

Which is why I also keep repeating:  

Week 1 is the REAL first test of who Zack Wilson is and where he is in his development.  No vanilla.  No backups.  No clean pockets free of the blitz.  No (or minimal) scripted play-calling on either side.

If Wilson looks in Week 1 like he's looked in Preseason, that's gonna be a great start.

29 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

And Nico doesnt count.  😎

Fair point. 

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

I would think a regular season game which has a specific game plan has actually more scripting than a preseason game especially in relation to creating mismatches. People always say vanilla vs. vanilla as if it is much easier on the QB but that is not necessarily true.

Regular season should have less “scripted” plays, if any at all.   Typically a coach scripts 12-15 plays to see how a defense reacts to certain looks, then they adjust the calls based on those looks.  You see more of this in preseason because you aren’t necessarily reacting to the other teams defense but rather working on certain concepts.  
 

The bullets will start flying for Zach in a couple weeks, defenses game planning specifically for the Jets and much more complex looks.   

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7 minutes ago, Warfish said:

How does my posting my own opinions not "let fans be fans"?

Do I control your fandom?  I sure hope not.

You have a problem with fans who root for players and seem to need to contradict their feeling about a player, not by facts buy by stuff like I'll wait until they prove it first.  Good.  

9 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Which is why I've said each time I've replied that "I'm very pleased with what I've seen through two preseason games vs. backups and vanilla defenses.  Wilson has played very well, and shown a number of good things.  So far, I have no criticism on him."

Seems that isn't good enough for you, because of the "preseason" qualifiers, eh.

If you actually watched him play you would see why people are excited by his play.  His tools, the way he sees the field, his arm, athleticism are all things you look at.  I dont care who hes playing against, if he can make the difficult throws in practice, he can make them.  If the rush is killing him, that happens to every QB, including Mahomes as in last years SB.  Instead, you, just repeat yourself over and over that you'll come to a conclusion after hes played whatever is your indicator

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Making stuff up, lol.  Yeah, totally, no one ever exaggerated/got ahead of themselves about Darnold.  Got it. :rolleyes: 

Also, if I can kill your joy, you're giving a random guy on the internet FAR too much power over your joy.  Just say'in.

I was specific.  That fans thought Darnold was better than Rodgers in 2018.  Made up, yeah, no one said that, if one nitwit said that, its not fans.

That the plays in the preseason scripted yes you made up, theyre not scripted.  There is no specific game planning.   More than a few of his passes where after going through progressions.  

I didn't say you could kill my joy, just seem by your posts to want to reel people in for being excited by what they've seen.  By you know, bringing Darnold and that made up piece about fans thinking he was better than Rodgers

15 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Fair point. 

Was too easy.  lol

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26 minutes ago, sec101row23 said:

Regular season should have less “scripted” plays, if any at all.   Typically a coach scripts 12-15 plays to see how a defense reacts to certain looks, then they adjust the calls based on those looks.  You see more of this in preseason because you aren’t necessarily reacting to the other teams defense but rather working on certain concepts.  
 

The bullets will start flying for Zach in a couple weeks, defenses game planning specifically for the Jets and much more complex looks.   

We will see. I am pretty confident in Zach

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54 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You have a problem with fans who root for players and seem to need to contradict their feeling about a player, not by facts buy by stuff like I'll wait until they prove it first.  Good.

I post what I think.  The fact it often contradicts what others feel is what it is.  I don't feel any need to apologize for thinking differently than many of you feel.

54 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

If you actually watched him play you would see why people are excited by his play.

I watched every snap so far.

What part of "I'm very pleased with what I've seen through two preseason games vs. backups and vanilla defenses.  Wilson has played very well, and shown a number of good things.  So far, I have no criticism on him." are you taking issue with, exactly?

54 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I dont care who hes playing against

I do. 

Playing against #2's and #3's in vanilla preseason isn't the same as playing against #1's with full scheme packages in the regular season.

Hence why I'm so excited to see him play in Week 1.  As I said.

 

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

I post what I think.  The fact it often contradicts what others feel is what it is.  I don't feel any need to apologize for thinking differently than many of you feel.

I watched every snap so far.

What part of "I'm very pleased with what I've seen through two preseason games vs. backups and vanilla defenses.  Wilson has played very well, and shown a number of good things.  So far, I have no criticism on him." are you taking issue with, exactly?

I do. 

Playing against #2's and #3's in vanilla preseason isn't the same as playing against #1's with full scheme packages in the regular season.

Hence why I'm so excited to see him play in Week 1.  As I said.

 

I am kind of in the same boat.  Not ready to think he's going to be great, but excited to see what he will do.   

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3 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Both T-Lw and Zach are pretty boys.... but I just couldn't handle a QB with longer hair than my wife. Old fashioned but a football player needs to look somewhat similar to a football player. 

Am I Right Tonight Show GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon

800.jpeg

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27 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Playing against #2's and #3's in vanilla preseason isn't the same as playing against #1's with full scheme packages in the regular season.

Hence why I'm so excited to see him play in Week 1.  As I said.

And he makes plays.  And thats what you look at in preseason games, plays.  Can he do whats put on his plate and is he successful.  

Week one in the grand scheme of things means little.  Its more about how the season goes on and if he's improving, developing.  Browning Nagle had a big opening day as an example

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26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Week one in the grand scheme of things means little.

Means more than preseason.

26 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

 Its more about how the season goes on and if he's improving, developing.  Browning Nagle had a big opening day as an example

Agreed.

 

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9 hours ago, Warfish said:

This is the trouble I have with the analysis here at JN, the (generally) complete lack of objectivity combined with the massive hype of new exciting players, leads to bulk numbers of hyperbolic glowing posts just like the one above, declaring how amazingly special and great player X is before he's really proven anything at all.

That's both (A) correct and (B) what gives a lot of us enjoyment...

I mean, we're all Jets fans, we know we're probably going to suck, we might as well enjoy what we can...

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