Saleh: Jarrad Davis likely out until Bye Week (Week 6)

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, genot said:

Our second line of defense is way undersized

Who are you talking about?

[TheNuuFaaolaExperience]

1 hour ago, munchmemory said:

Yup.  We lose 10-11 games this season?   Rookie QB/HC or not, JD is going to be on the hot seat.  This friggin' team needs to start winning.

You're going to be in for a rude awakening if you think that this season was set up for playoff contention. This is going to be an exciting year of development, progress, growing pains, and a lot of heartbreak. They set up their rookie QB for success by surrounding him with respectable talent. The defense is clearly in a rebuild, even with the signing of Carl Lawson. JD is a LONG way from being on the hot seat. The first day of that hot seat doesn't begin until 2023. 

[genot]

4 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Who are you talking about?

Our outside linebackers are rookies who we're college safeties.. Both don't weigh more than 215lbs. Remember Darron Lee. He weighed 230lbs and was easily held up by tight ends and offensive lineman. That's what im talking about.

[munchmemory]

17 minutes ago, TheNuuFaaolaExperience said:

You're going to be in for a rude awakening if you think that this season was set up for playoff contention. This is going to be an exciting year of development, progress, growing pains, and a lot of heartbreak. They set up their rookie QB for success by surrounding him with respectable talent. The defense is clearly in a rebuild, even with the signing of Carl Lawson. JD is a LONG way from being on the hot seat. The first day of that hot seat doesn't begin until 2023. 

I hear you.  I really do.  All I'm saying is that we are losing games by the bushel full.   Losing 10+ games in a season has become the norm.   Mind numbingly so.  How many years is the GM going to get the rebuild excuse?  

So to JD and the team:  I don't care how you do it.  Just win games.  Many of us out here can't stomach all these losses.

[Jet Nut]

26 minutes ago, genot said:

Our outside linebackers are rookies who we're college safeties.. Both don't weigh more than 215lbs. Remember Darron Lee. He weighed 230lbs and was easily held up by tight ends and offensive lineman. That's what im talking about.

Its a 4-3 D.  Youre LB are supposed to be smaller, lighter and faster than a 3-4 D.  That why Mosely lost weight

I thought thats what you were talking about.  230s is where you want 4-3 LBs to be, you need to stop looking at weight of a couple of S's when they were drafted in April.  I'm sure they put some bulk on.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, munchmemory said:

Yup.  We lose 10-11 games this season?   Rookie QB/HC or not, JD is going to be on the hot seat.  This friggin' team needs to start winning.

Not a chance. 

Seriously your plan to start the team moving is to dump the GM who you charged with rebuilding a horrible team and starting over?

And when the new GM decides to hire on of his guys as HC and fires Saleh you and SAR will be happy?

You ever wonder why the Pats, Pittsburg, Seattle etc consistently win?  Because you dont dump out because fans just want you to

[MichaelScott]

Is Cashman on IR yet? 

[joewilly12]

Just now, MichaelScott said:

Is Cashman on IR yet? 

 

 

[munchmemory]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Not a chance. 

Seriously your plan to start the team moving is to dump the GM who you charged with rebuilding a horrible team and starting over?

And when the new GM decides to hire on of his guys as HC and fires Saleh you and SAR will be happy?

You ever wonder why the Pats, Pittsburg, Seattle etc consistently win?  Because you dont dump out because fans just want you to

See, by this logic, we should have kept Idzik and Mcc.  Why fire them?  They will eventually succeed, right?  And the reson those great teams have not gone on the GM carousel is because for whatever reason, they have been better at finding and hiring GMs than us.  

I'm not saying I want JD fired.  But if his system isn't working, why stick with him?  Just want him to find guys who can win.  Or, at least, stop putting in 10, 12 loss seasons.

[Defense Wins Championships]

25 minutes ago, genot said:

Our outside linebackers are rookies who we're college safeties.. Both don't weigh more than 215lbs. Remember Darron Lee. He weighed 230lbs and was easily held up by tight ends and offensive lineman. That's what im talking about.

You're thinking 3-4 and not 4-3 OLB's.

because  you want your 4-3 OLBs to be fast quick and athletic not heavy and slow.

[RutgersJetFan]

I have to say SAR coming up with his mandate and literally nobody else giving a sh*t about it is my favorite JN storyline of 2021 thus far.

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

See, by this logic, we should have kept Idzik and Mcc.  Why fire them?  They will eventually succeed, right?  And the reson those great teams have not gone on the GM carousel is because for whatever reason, they have been better at finding and hiring GMs than us.  

I'm not saying I want JD fired.  But if his system isn't working, why stick with him?  Just want him to find guys who can win.  Or, at least, stop putting in 10, 12 loss seasons.

How long was Macc here?  Idzik was a complete mess, deserved to be fired right away.  You think my thinking is all you have to do is keep someone and you'll win like the Steelers?  

If you want him on the hotseat you would fire him and that just so wrong.  

[flgreen]

31 minutes ago, genot said:

Our outside linebackers are rookies who we're college safeties.. Both don't weigh more than 215lbs. Remember Darron Lee. He weighed 230lbs and was easily held up by tight ends and offensive lineman. That's what im talking about.

Both the S's have played very well under normal circumstances.  

With that said, the Jets are going to have to get Nas off the field in short yardage situations.

He's been blown off the LOS in a 3-1, and 4-1 in both games.  Won't take O's long to figure that out.

[Jet Nut]

6 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

I have to say SAR coming up with his mandate and literally nobody else giving a sh*t about it is my favorite JN storyline of 2021 thus far.

Thats because SAR is the only one butthurt that Gase, the football man of Florham Park, was fired and you know 

[Joe W. Namath]

Are we blowing these injuries out of proportion?  If you would have said in January that we would be without Jared Davis and Carl Lawson I would have said, "Who?".  

Jared Davis has been bad for 2 years and Carl Lawson has averaged 5.25 sacks a season the last 2 years.

These injuries are not as big a deal as we are making them.

[genot]

21 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its a 4-3 D.  Youre LB are supposed to be smaller, lighter and faster than a 3-4 D.  That why Mosely lost weight

I thought thats what you were talking about.  230s is where you want 4-3 LBs to be, you need to stop looking at weight of a couple of S's when they were drafted in April.  I'm sure they put some bulk on.

Our olb aren't at 230lbs. Thier at 215lbs. That's not the only reason in my post why i think the Jet's run defense will suffer. 

[genot]

24 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Its a 4-3 D.  Youre LB are supposed to be smaller, lighter and faster than a 3-4 D.  That why Mosely lost weight

I thought thats what you were talking about.  230s is where you want 4-3 LBs to be, you need to stop looking at weight of a couple of S's when they were drafted in April.  I'm sure they put some bulk on.

Another obvious point, a kill your post point, is the fact that Jared Davis weighs in at 245lbs. Maybe you should take up your point with coach Saleh.

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, genot said:

Our olb aren't at 230lbs. Thier at 215lbs. That's not the only reason in my post why i think the Jet's run defense will suffer. 

Start by learning our roster.  There are two LBs who going off their winter weights, the draft, are under 230.  Two.  Not our LBs.  Just like they still have Mosely at 250 and now weighs in the low 230's

[Jet Nut]

4 minutes ago, genot said:

Another obvious point, a kill your post point, is the fact that Jared Davis weighs in at 245lbs. Maybe you should take up your point with coach Saleh.

Off of when, did you recently weigh him?  

But wait, you complain that he sucked for the last two years and then complain that our LBs dont weigh as much as he does? 

LOL

[genot]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Off of when, did you recently weigh him?  

But wait, you complain that he sucked for the last two years and then complain that our LBs dont weigh as much as he does? 

LOL

You like to argue. Argue with someone else. Push and push and push and ignore will be next. Mosley has lost weight. He's still bigger than who are outside linebackers will be to start the season. Davis on our latest depth chart is at 245lbs. Please copy and paste his current listed wieght if that's not correct. I never posted anything about what kind of a player Davis was. Ever. I might have said that he struggled in coverage when he was a Lion. That's it.Never said he sucked. Ever.

[joewilly12]

20 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Thats because SAR is the only one butthurt that Gase, the football man of Florham Park, was fired and you know 

 

[Defense Wins Championships]

5 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Off of when, did you recently weigh him?  

But wait, you complain that he sucked for the last two years and then complain that our LBs dont weigh as much as he does? 

LOL

He still thinks we're in a 3-4 Defense where Edge Setting OLBs like Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace both weighed 265 lbs. 

And he obviously doesn't know about this guy who played @ 4-3 OLB either...

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, genot said:

You like to argue. Argue with someone else. Push and push and push and ignore will be next. Mosley has lost weight. He's still bigger than who are outside linebackers will be to start the season. Davis on our latest depth chart is at 245lbs. Please copy and paste his current listed wieght if that's not correct. I never posted anything about what kind of a player Davis was. Ever. I might have said that he struggled in coverage when he was a Lion. That's it.Never said he sucked. Ever.

Youre the one arguing that our 4-3 LBs are in their 230's and youre the one who is arguing you know their weights based off of last years numbers.

Davis is listed everywhere at 245.  And Mosely at 250.  As I said, last years numbers

[kdels62]

3 minutes ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

He still thinks we're in a 3-4 Defense where Edge Setting OLBs like Bryan Thomas and Calvin Pace both weighed 265 lbs. 

And he obviously doesn't know about this guy who played @ 4-3 OLB either...

Both the guys you’ve screenshotted we’re over 230 lbs, our rookies had a playing weight of about 215. 

[genot]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre the one arguing that our 4-3 LBs are in their 230's and youre the one who is arguing you know their weights based off of last years numbers.

Davis is listed everywhere at 245.  And Mosely at 250.  As I said, last years numbers

Sherwood and Nasrideen are converted safeties who will be playing well below 230lbs. That was why i thought are run defense could be a major concern. Reason one, they're playing in the NFL at a new position. #2. They're smaller by 15 to 20 lbs than the average OLB in a 4-3.

[Jet Nut]

1 minute ago, genot said:

Sherwood and Nasrideen are converted safeties who will be playing well below 230lbs. That was why i thought are run defense could be a major concern. Reason one, they're playing in the NFL at a new position. #2. They're smaller by 15 to 20 lbs than the average OLB in a 4-3.

Can you stop?  You cry that Im arguing when you are the one guessing peoples weights.  And thing 4-3 LBs weigh in their 240s

Reason one is a concern.  Reason two, see above

[Jet Nut]

Factors that matter: What we want in linebacker prospects

Let’s kick this off with the linebackers. We’ve seen this position change over the past few years perhaps more than any other. The proliferation of spread offenses in the college and pro games have placed increased value on three-down linebackers who can play in space. As a result, we’ve seen a rising emphasis on athleticism and versatility at the position. Linebacker has become a landing spot for “athlete” types who are often multi-positional standouts at the high school level.

The last three NFL Drafts have seen 27 off-ball linebackers taken in the first three rounds. This group includes the last three Butkus Award winners (college football’s top linebacker). The high school heights of the group range from 5-foot-11 to 6-foot-4 with the weights ranging from 190 to 260 pounds. The average size of the future top linebacker in this sample is 6-foot-1.9, 216 pounds. The 260-pounder (Devin White) is a considerable outlier with the next heaviest linebacker being 235 pounds as a high school prospect. And White was hyper-athletic regardless of his size.

If you’re thinking 6-foot-2, 216 pounds seems small for a top linebacker prospect, you might be thinking of past run-stuffing prototypes that are increasingly going out of vogue. The spatial emphasis of today’s game has made athleticism and movement skills key for the linebackers.

 

https://247sports.com/Article/College-football-linebackers-in-the-NFL-draft-trends-147143058/

[#27TheDominator]

12 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Youre the one arguing that our 4-3 LBs are in their 230's and youre the one who is arguing you know their weights based off of last years numbers.

Davis is listed everywhere at 245.  And Mosely at 250.  As I said, last years numbers

To be fair, those aren't last year's numbers.   Nasrildeen weighed 215 at his pro day on March 22, 2021.  Sherwood weighed 216 at his pro day on March 18.  I don't think rookies usually pack on much weight.  They usually have trouble keeping their weight up with all the activity.  

I expect this team to run with undersized safety/LB hybrids most of the time and I expect them to struggle with the run.  I think we should be prepared for that.  Without Davis, they will probably do more situational mixing and matching and hopefully deal a little better with short yardage.  I don't think they do as much of that in preseason - I would expect to see more of Fatukasi to stuff the run and possibly more of a regular LB than our usual hybrids..  

[genot]

3 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Can you stop?  You cry that Im arguing when you are the one guessing peoples weights.  And thing 4-3 LBs weigh in their 240s

Reason one is a concern.  Reason two, see above

You need to stop. My first post was clear about why the run defense might struggle. You asked me what i was talking about. 4-3 linebackers are smaller er and faster. I responded that most aren't that small, including Mosley the guy who lost weight and is still 15+ lbs bigger than our rookies

[Defense Wins Championships]

14 minutes ago, kdels62 said:

Both the guys you’ve screenshotted we’re over 230 lbs, our rookies had a playing weight of about 215. 

That's what happens with NFL training. You gain weight. 

When Derrick Brooks came to Florida State he weighed about 185 pounds and as a Rookie if you think he started his playing career @ where he finished 230+ you're kidding yourself he was close to 215-220 as an NFL Rookie and immediately impacted from day 1.

I believe coach Saleh knows what he's doing in regards to both Sherwood and especially Hamsah Nasirildeen (who's more of a tackling machine than Jamal Adams who's 214 lbs).

 

[genot]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Factors that matter: What we want in linebacker prospects

Let’s kick this off with the linebackers. We’ve seen this position change over the past few years perhaps more than any other. The proliferation of spread offenses in the college and pro games have placed increased value on three-down linebackers who can play in space. As a result, we’ve seen a rising emphasis on athleticism and versatility at the position. Linebacker has become a landing spot for “athlete” types who are often multi-positional standouts at the high school level.

The last three NFL Drafts have seen 27 off-ball linebackers taken in the first three rounds. This group includes the last three Butkus Award winners (college football’s top linebacker). The high school heights of the group range from 5-foot-11 to 6-foot-4 with the weights ranging from 190 to 260 pounds. The average size of the future top linebacker in this sample is 6-foot-1.9, 216 pounds. The 260-pounder (Devin White) is a considerable outlier with the next heaviest linebacker being 235 pounds as a high school prospect. And White was hyper-athletic regardless of his size.

If you’re thinking 6-foot-2, 216 pounds seems small for a top linebacker prospect, you might be thinking of past run-stuffing prototypes that are increasingly going out of vogue. The spatial emphasis of today’s game has made athleticism and movement skills key for the linebackers.

 

https://247sports.com/Article/College-football-linebackers-in-the-NFL-draft-trends-147143058/

This guy should look at the starting OLB's in the NFL who play in a 4-3. Most are around 230lbs. Very few are at 215lbs. Some are, but very few 

[Jet Nut]

5 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

To be fair, those aren't last year's numbers.   Nasrildeen weighed 215 at his pro day on March 22, 2021.  Sherwood weighed 216 at his pro day on March 18.  I don't think rookies usually pack on much weight.  They usually have trouble keeping their weight up with all the activity.  

I expect this team to run with undersized safety/LB hybrids most of the time and I expect them to struggle with the run.  I think we should be prepared for that.  Without Davis, they will probably do more situational mixing and matching and hopefully deal a little better with short yardage.  I don't think they do as much of that in preseason - I would expect to see more of Fatukasi to stuff the run and possibly more of a regular LB than our usual hybrids..  

Moselys 250 then? 

Thats his number for last years.  Hes already said hes down in the low 230s, 231 I thin is what he said  

 

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Factors that matter: What we want in linebacker prospects

Let’s kick this off with the linebackers. We’ve seen this position change over the past few years perhaps more than any other. The proliferation of spread offenses in the college and pro games have placed increased value on three-down linebackers who can play in space. As a result, we’ve seen a rising emphasis on athleticism and versatility at the position. Linebacker has become a landing spot for “athlete” types who are often multi-positional standouts at the high school level.

The last three NFL Drafts have seen 27 off-ball linebackers taken in the first three rounds. This group includes the last three Butkus Award winners (college football’s top linebacker). The high school heights of the group range from 5-foot-11 to 6-foot-4 with the weights ranging from 190 to 260 pounds. The average size of the future top linebacker in this sample is 6-foot-1.9, 216 pounds. The 260-pounder (Devin White) is a considerable outlier with the next heaviest linebacker being 235 pounds as a high school prospect. And White was hyper-athletic regardless of his size.

If you’re thinking 6-foot-2, 216 pounds seems small for a top linebacker prospect, you might be thinking of past run-stuffing prototypes that are increasingly going out of vogue. The spatial emphasis of today’s game has made athleticism and movement skills key for the linebackers.

 

https://247sports.com/Article/College-football-linebackers-in-the-NFL-draft-trends-147143058/

You complain about "last year's numbers" and pull out an article referencing high school weights?   By those references, Nasrildeen weighed 210 and Sherwood 190 (though their own text says 181 lbs).  That is small even by the standards of the article.  I get the trend, but we probably need somebody that will be able to hold up against the run, if only situationally.

[Defense Wins Championships]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

You need to stop. My first post was clear about why the run defense might struggle. You asked me what i was talking about. 4-3 linebackers are smaller er and faster. I responded that most aren't that small, including Mosley the guy who lost weight and is still 15+ lbs bigger than our rookies

You should stop and learn the difference between 3-4 heavy OLBs and 4-3 lighter athletic OLBs. 

The Jets ranked 6th against the run last year in average yards per rush against and you think being led by Robert Saleh and with 4x Pro Bowler 4x All-Pro C.J Mosley playing MLB behind QUINNEN WILLIAMS who's no longer playing out of position that our run Defense is going to get WORSE? 

That's nuts.

[Jet Nut]

2 minutes ago, genot said:

This guy should look at the starting OLB's in the NFL who play in a 4-3. Most are around 230lbs. Very few are at 215lbs. Some are, but very few 

I found an article that listed the average 4-3 LB at 230, that they were going lighter and lighter and the average weight is actually lower because some of the dinosaurs are still at 245 playing.  But the trend is lighter and lighter

The article was written in 2007