Carolina Fan: Your sloppy seconds...

[Smashmouth]

9 hours ago, Defense Wins Championships said:

 

 I caption these 

Oh sh*t they have ghosts in Carolina as well ??!#321?

 

[Jetsfan80]

5 hours ago, Pac said:

Darnold was cursed with absolutely horrific coaching and by far the worst assortment of talent surrounding him that any qb had to deal with.  Through it all he never complained and handled everything with aplomb.

My guess is he'll look much better this year and the jaded haters on this board will attribute his success to McCaffrey and your OC.

Darnold will be just fine.

just like Sanchez and Geno eh?

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, genot said:

They could have a backup in Sam. They could have what we drafted him to be. A franchise QB. They probably wanted to show Sam that they believed in him, and wanted to take some of the pressure off him. To them it was worth the risk. We'll see

Spending $20M on a backup to make him feel good is a smart financial decision.  

[Wit]

This is very wrong, but “special needs Sam” may be his new name. 
 

special Sammy

special needs Sammy 

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, genot said:

Everything the Jet's have done un the off season indicate why he struggled here. 

The Jets got rid of Darnold because they recognized he is awful and needed a new QB. That explains more about the Jets’ view of Darnold than anything else they did this offseason.

[Jetsfan80]

4 hours ago, jgb said:

I see your anecdotal Archie Manning and raise you a partial list of the highly-drafted QBs who sucked for three years and who either continued to suck forever or were out of the league. Some of them even played for -- gasp -- terrible teams, coaches and situations!

• Tim Couch (Pick 1.1, 1999)
• David Carr (Pick 1.1, 2002)
• JaMarcus Russell (Pick 1.1, 2007)
• Sam Bradford (Pick 1.1, 2010)
• Rick Mirer (Pick 1.2, 1993)
• Ryan Leaf (Pick 1.2, 1998)
• Robert Griffin III (Pick 1.2, 2012)
• Marcus Mariota (Pick 1.2, 2015)
• Jack Thompson (Pick 1.3, 1979)
• Heath Shuler (Pick 1.3, 1994)
• Akili Smith (Pick 1.3, 1999)
• Joey Harrington (Pick 1.3, 2002)
• Vince Young (Pick 1.3, 2006)
• Blake Bortles (Pick 1.3, 2014)
• Art Schlichter (Pick 1.4, 1982)
• Mark Sanchez (Pick 1.5, 2009)
• Rich Campbell (Pick 1.6, 1981)
• Kelly Stouffer (Pick 1.6, 1987)
• David Klingler (Pick 1.6, 1992)
• Todd Blackledge (Pick 1.7, 1983)
• Andre Ware (Pick 1.7, 1990)
• Byron Leftwich (Pick 1.7, 2003)
• Jake Locker (Pick 1.8, 2011)
• Matt Leinart (Pick 1.10, 2006)
• Blaine Gabbert (Pick 1.10, 2011)
• Jerry Tagge (Pick 1.11, 1972)
• Chuck Long (Pick 1.12, 1986)
• Cade McNown (Pick 1.12, 1999)
• Christian Ponder (Pick 1.12, 2011)
• John Reaves (Pick 1.14, 1972)
• Dan McGwire (Pick 1.16, 1991)
• EJ Manuel (Pick 1.16, 2013)
• Josh Freeman (Pick 1.17, 2009)
• Steve Pisarkiewicz (Pick 1.19, 1977)
• Kyle Boller (Pick 1.19, 2003)
• Rex Grossman (Pick 1.22, 2003)
• J.P. Losman (Pick 1.22, 2004)
• Brady Quinn (Pick 1.22, 2007)
• Brandon Weeden (Pick 1.22, 2012)
• Johnny Manziel (Pick 1.22, 2014)
• Steve Fuller (Pick 1.23, 1979)
• Todd Marinovich (Pick 1.24, 1991)
• Jason Campbell (Pick 1.25, 2005)
• Tim Tebow (Pick 1.25, 2010)
• Jim Druckenmiller (Pick 1.26, 1997)
• Paxton Lynch (Pick 1.26, 2016)
• Mark Malone (Pick 1.28, 1980)
• Patrick Ramsey (Pick 1.32, 2002)
• Teddy Bridgewater (Pick 1.32, 2014)
• Dennis Shaw (Pick 2.30, 1970)
• Mike Elkins (Pick 2.32, 1989)
• Gary Huff (Pick 2.33, 1973)
• Browning Nagle (Pick 2.34, 1991)
• Kevin Kolb (Pick 2.36, 2007)
• Gene Bradley (Pick 2.37, 1980)
• Geno Smith (Pick 2.39, 2013)
• Pat Sullivan (Pick 2.40, 1972)
• Matt Blundin (Pick 2.40, 1992)
• John Beck (Pick 2.40, 2007)
• Oliver Luck (Pick 2.44, 1982)
• Pat White (Pick 2.44, 2009)
• Gary Kiethley (Pick 2.45, 1973)
• Todd Collins (Pick 2.45, 1995)
• Tony Sacca (Pick 2.46, 1992)
• Mike Kruczek (Pick 2.47, 1976)
• Matt Kofler (Pick 2.48, 1982)
• Jimmy Clausen (Pick 2.48, 2010)
• Jeb Blount (Pick 2.50, 1976)
• Matt Cavanaugh (Pick 2.50, 1978)
• Shaun King (Pick 2.50, 1999)
• Bill Cappleman (Pick 2.51, 1970)
• Guy Benjamin (Pick 2.51, 1978)
• Billy Joe Tolliver (Pick 2.51, 1989)
• Christian Hackenberg (Pick 2.51, 2016)
• DeShone Kizer (Pick 2.52, 2017)
• Glenn Carano (Pick 2.54, 1977)
• Brock Osweiler (Pick 2.57, 2012)

I think I made this list!

[Jetsfan80]

3 hours ago, genot said:

Some of those Qb's listed we're system QB's. Some had issues unrelated to football. Some of those QB's we're reaches and failed because they never had the skills that translated to the NFL game. So yes, the percentages still indicate it's an uphill climb for Darnold. But that list is a little misleading.

It’s a significant sample size.  You can pick apart a bunch if you choose.  But you can’t dismiss a list of 40+ QBs.  

Meanwhile, we can pick apart your side too.  You may think you can find 10+ QBs who Darnold can look to for optimism, but in reality it’s somewhere between 0-3 that are actually similar to Darnold.

[jgb]

9 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I think I made this list!

Stolen with pride -- already bumped you once today so I didn't tag you to keep your ego in check  

[jgb]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The Jets got rid of Darnold because they recognized he is awful and needed a new QB. That explains more about the Jets’ view of Darnold than anything else they did this offseason.

If you love something let it go and see if it returns... JD is a huge fan of Sam Darnold. He said so at the "he's outta here, folks" press conference.

[Jet25]

Panther fans asking Jet fans...

 

[jgb]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Spending $20M on a backup to make him feel good is a smart financial decision.  

Sheer idiocy. I've said it before that 2022 is likely to represent Sam's highest earning year when his career is done.

[jgb]

25 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

just like Sanchez and Geno eh?

But this time it's different.

[jgb]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Or running out of bounds for a voluntary sack.

Gase made him do it

[jgb]

35 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Gonna be tough when they’ll owe Darnold $20M fully guaranteed next season on his 5th year option.  

Would also have to wonder if Rhule and co. will get the chance on picking their 3rd QB.

My absolute favorite are those that said Carolina picked up the option to "rebuild Sam's confidence." Lol, wut? That worked out so great when the Jets gave Sanchez a warm fuzzy extension after flirting with Peyton Manning.

[genot]

26 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Spending $20M on a backup to make him feel good is a smart financial decision.  

They don't look at it that way. They very well night feel he could be their guy for the next 10 years. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, genot said:

They don't look at it that way. They very well night feel he could be their guy for the next 10 years. 

Good luck with that.

[genot]

3 minutes ago, jgb said:

My absolute favorite are those that said Carolina picked up the option to "rebuild Sam's confidence." Lol, wut? That worked out so great when the Jets gave Sanchez a warm fuzzy extension after flirting with Peyton Manning.

If he has a good year behind a weak offensive line. It's money well spent.

[slimjasi]

1 minute ago, genot said:

If he has a good year behind a weak offensive line. It's money well spent.

IF

[jgb]

1 minute ago, genot said:

They don't look at it that way. They very well night feel he could be their guy for the next 10 years. 

Again -- it still makes no sense to pick up the option. There is really no universe where it was a wise decision. He will either earn a new contract by his play anyway or he will suck and Carolina will look like morons. Keep in mind, the franchise tag is only projected to be like $7M over the option. Ok, that's real money but betting $20M to maybe "save" $7M on a rehabilitation project is just a poor bet.

The only conceivable positive is it could give the team some leverage if Sam blows the doors off and plays hardball on an extension. But guess what else could also give that leverage? The franchise tag. Which could be decided after seeing if he's turned it around or not.

[jgb]

8 minutes ago, genot said:

If he has a good year behind a weak offensive line. It's money well spent.

 

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

IF

Don't miss the sneaky pre-excuse already working its way in to this debate.

[Dunnie]

Does Darnold really have a learning disability ....
 

Yes he did ... GPD

Gase Proximity Disorder




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[UntouchableCrew]

12 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Gonna be tough when they’ll owe Darnold $20M fully guaranteed next season on his 5th year option.  

Would also have to wonder if Rhule and co. will get the chance on picking their 3rd QB.

Both fair points.

That said Tepper had no problem eating money/walking away from Bridgewater and clearly is passionate/wants to win immediately. I bet if Darnold flops they are aggressive.

I would see him cleaning house quickly too, but I have no idea how he feels about Rhule.

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Both fair points.

That said Tepper had no problem eating money/walking away from Bridgewater and clearly is passionate/wants to win immediately. I bet if Darnold flops they are aggressive.

I would see him cleaning house quickly too, but I have no idea how he feels about Rhule.

Yeah.  I like Rhule and am rooting for him, so I hope he gets a shot on a 3rd QB.  But I am obviously convinced that Darnold will fail and that tends to get coaches and GM's fired.  

[Alka]

22 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Darnold has a fair amount of natural ability and athleticism. He will show flashes and show promise. He was in a bad situation here and with Joe Brady and the Carolina weapons I think he'll have statistically his strongest season with you guys.

That said, having watched every Darnold NFL start:

1) He's a bad decision maker and will always turn the ball over at a higher rate than is sustainable.

2) There's nothing comfortable and fluid about him. He's just kind of wonky in his mechanics and footwork.

3) He doesn't make the easy, consistent throws you routinely need to make, even if he's capable of making a big throw here or there.

4) I would be extremely surprised if you guys weren't in the market for a new starter in 2022.

One thing I think you missed is that Darnold for whatever reason doesn't see the open receiver on so many occasions.  I don't know enough of why that is, but my guess is that he fails to go through all his progressions. and will focus on the primary receiver and the outlet guy, and never get to the 2nd and 3rd receivers.  This is something that Zach has already seemed to be mastering, whereas after 3 seasons with the Jets, Darnold has never been able to master.  For me, that might be the biggest difference between Darnold and Zach Wilson.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, Alka said:

One thing I think you missed is that Darnold for whatever reason doesn't see the open receiver on so many occasions.  I don't know enough of why that is, but my guess is that he fails to go through all his progressions. and will focus on the primary receiver and the outlet guy, and never get to the 2nd and 3rd receivers.  This is something that Zach has already seemed to be mastering, whereas after 3 seasons with the Jets, Darnold has never been able to master.  For me, that might be the biggest difference between Darnold and Zach Wilson.

Yep.  To add to this, he's a slow processor.  I.E. Mark Sanchez disease.  And that can't be fixed, only mitigated with easy reads. But that also requires clean pockets and terrific accuracy, the former of which can't be guaranteed on any given snap (especially since Darnold holds onto the ball for forever even when he has wide open receivers) and the latter of which Darnold lacks (he misses wide open receivers on a routine basis and can't "throw them open" like good QB's can).  He also can't make a presnap read to save his life.  Thus, he has no ability to slow the game down like good QB's can.  

All these things about Darnold work against him regardless of his circumstances.  So while he'll be better in Carolina, for him that will still mean he's about QB25 at best.  I.E. not good enough and never a franchise QB.  He'll bounce around the league a bit, because of his draft pedigree, until he's about 27-28, when he'll be done.

[JohnnyLV]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  To add to this, he's a slow processor.  I.E. Mark Sanchez disease.  And that can't be fixed, only mitigated with easy reads. But that also requires clean pockets and terrific accuracy, the former of which can't be guaranteed on any given snap (especially since Darnold holds onto the ball for forever even when he has wide open receivers) and the latter of which Darnold lacks (he misses wide open receivers on a routine basis and can't "throw them open" like good QB's can).  He also can't make a presnap read to save his life.  Thus, he has no ability to slow the game down like good QB's can.  

All these things about Darnold work against him regardless of his circumstances.  So while he'll be better in Carolina, for him that will still mean he's about QB25 at best.  I.E. not good enough and never a franchise QB.  He'll bounce around the league a bit, because of his draft pedigree, until he's about 27-28, when he'll be done.

Sam is so so indecisive. I call it the micro pause. He slightly stutters before every throw. Even when he gets it out on time there is still that slight pause.

I do not understand what Carolina was thinking. Picking up Sam makes some sense, but not taking Jones or Fields when they fall to your spot makes no sense to me. And then they pick up the option which makes zero sense. 

I still don't get how you think the lowest rated QB in the NFL over 3 years will suddenly become a franchise guy especially one with accuracy, turnover and decision issues.

[Jetsfan80]

7 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Sam is so so indecisive. I call it the micro pause. He slightly stutters before every throw. Even when he gets it out on time there is still that slight pause.

I do not understand what Carolina was thinking. Picking up Sam makes some sense, but not taking Jones or Fields when they fall to your spot makes no sense to me. And then they pick up the option which makes zero sense. 

I still don't get how you think the lowest rated QB in the NFL over 3 years will suddenly become a franchise guy especially one with accuracy, turnover and decision issues.

 

Sometimes NFL GM's and HC's really do make dumber decisions than fans do.  Lacking objectivity, having the arrogance to think you can "fix" a guy, overlooking the huge red flags you see on tape, groupthink...all of these things played into this decision by Rhule and co. and they're going to end up with enormous buyer's remorse. 

In fact, I think they already have it a bit after seeing him in camp and preseason.  The excuse train was flying off the rails based on Rhule's comments all summer.  Eventually those excuses will turn into a ton of regret when the games get going and the losses pile up as a result.

At the very least they have to regret the $20M 5th year option, which was just tremendously stupid, as @jgband I continue to point out.  Trading for Darnold?  Fine, I guess.  That can be justified.  Handing him $20M based purely on the flawed perspective you have of what you've seen on tape of him?  Terrible.  Let him earn his money.  There was no need to hand it to him for any good reason.  Obviously they thought they were going to end up paying him big money after 2021 regardless but why not let him prove that he's worth it first?  You'll have to spend big money in either case.  There was very little upside to that decision and quite a bit of downside.  Now they're pretty much stuck with him thru 2022 regardless of how poorly he plays this year.

[Adoni Beast]

The Darnold hate and actively rooting for him to suck is too much.

He was dealt the worst possible hand by this organization and never bitched.

I’m glad he’s gone and I’m glad we got Wilson, but let’s stop actively rooting for him to be a horrible (besides Week 1 this year)

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Darnold hate and actively rooting for him to suck is too much.

He was dealt the worst possible hand by this organization and never bitched.

I’m glad he’s gone and I’m glad we got Wilson, but let’s stop actively rooting for him to be a horrible (besides Week 1 this year)

We own Carolina's 2nd & 4th round picks in 2022.  Rooting for him to fail serves the Jets' best interests.  Could be the difference between the next Ryan Ramczyk/Travis Kelce/Dalvin Cook/Darius Leonard or the next Jason Spriggs/Jace Amaro/Kerryon Johnson/Malik Jefferson.

[ZachEY]

5 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Darnold hate and actively rooting for him to suck is too much.

Counterpoint:

[Dcat]

18 hours ago, munchmemory said:

Other than Toyah's "visuals", can't say I'm a fan of their slew of covers.    But Fripp is an incredible guitar player.  One of my favorites, for sure.

Haven't listened to King Crimson in quite some time.

[JohnnyLV]

15 minutes ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Darnold hate and actively rooting for him to suck is too much.

He was dealt the worst possible hand by this organization and never bitched.

I’m glad he’s gone and I’m glad we got Wilson, but let’s stop actively rooting for him to be a horrible (besides Week 1 this year)

I do not root for Sam to suck. I have always liked him. I just am not seeing a whole lot of reasons that he won't suck this year. And Carolina of course not doing him any favors. Holding a guy learning a new offense out while Mahomes plays a half just shows how poorly they are handling this.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Adoni Beast said:

The Darnold hate and actively rooting for him to suck is too much.

He was dealt the worst possible hand by this organization and never bitched.

I’m glad he’s gone and I’m glad we got Wilson, but let’s stop actively rooting for him to be a horrible (besides Week 1 this year)

I want Darnold to be the worst QB in the league in 2021 for Jets draft pick purposes. So basically, just want him to be Darnold.

After that, he can turn into Drew Brees for all I care.

[Adoni Beast]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

We own Carolina's 2nd & 4th round picks in 2022.  Rooting for him to fail serves the Jets' best interests.  Could be the difference between the next Ryan Ramczyk/Travis Kelce/Dalvin Cook/Darius Leonard or the next Jason Spriggs/Jace Amaro/Kerryon Johnson/Malik Jefferson.

You are def right about rooting for Carolina losses. I just don’t get the hate some people have for Sam, and trust me I was all for us moving on from him.

[Adoni Beast]

8 minutes ago, jgb said:

I want Darnold to be the worst QB in the league in 2021 for Jets draft pick purposes. So basically, just want him to be Darnold.

After that, he can turn into Drew Brees for all I care.

Fair enough…and I’m not even rooting for him to be good. Just seems like a lot of hate for someone who honestly was screwed over by our franchise more than he screwed the franchise.