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Rapoport: Herndon Traded to Vikings


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2 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

If he gets four starters out of the draft, it will be considered a very good draft, as it would with any GM. That very well could happen since it generally takes three years for players to mature. You seem to have ants in your pants when it comes to draft evaluations. 

No argument there.

No I have no ants in my pants.  Let me ask you are you 100% happy an confident with how things have gone with most of the players in the draft?

In many cases guys show early if they can play at a high level or not.

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2 hours ago, choon328 said:

A reasonable expectation for a draft to be successful is to hit on your 1st rd pick.  Hit on either your 2nd or 3rd rd pick.  And to hit on 1 of the remaining picks in rounds 4-7. So 3 starters out of the entire draft. 

The hit rate in the 1st rd is about 50%

2nd and 3rd is about 30-40%

4th-7th is about 20%.

It's still early to judge especially with no offseason or training camp. But right now you have a starter in Becton and Hall. I don't really count Mann although I should. They all need more time to develop. 

To think a team should draft more starters, especially Rookie starters, is unrealistic in my opinion. 

He also picked up Huff and Guidry that year as UDFA. 

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2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Becton - huge potential but hurt both years and had troubles in this years camp

Mims - hurt both years and well down the depth chart at WR if anything took a step back wards

Ashtyn Daivs....hurt and did not light the world on fire year one

Zuniga - Has done absolutely ZERO so far, amazing he was not cut.

Perine - Not a terrible player but nothing special, he's about #4 back on this team.

Morgan - Cut, for a 4th round pick he has shown not a lot and you do not spend 4th rounders long take a swing for a backup qb.

Clarke - hurt both years was not great last year, may or may not play again.

Bryce Hall - Excellent pick great value

Mann - Looks good so far this year which is a huge improvement over a lousy year last year.

 

 

Just to be clear: 50 percent draft success puts a GM in the top percentile of GM's....We are going into year 2 dude of those picks.  YEAR 2.

And you gotta let that bold stuff go......That is EXACTLY what you do with an extra pick you finagle by moving around the first draft.  You keep taking QB's until you find one.

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4 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Douglas is an amazing GM for managing resources and the cap and such.  HOWEVER, Idzik was good at that as well.  All of these picks will not mean enough if he does not draft a bit better.

 

3 hours ago, JTJet said:

To be fair... if that 4th turns into another James Morgan, it was pointless. 

 

Look at these wet blankets.

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2 hours ago, 32EBoozer said:

Zach Ertz is now going for a 1st rd. Pick based on the Herndon trade

Don’t you think the vikings made a play for Ertz before calling the Jets for Herndon?  The Eagles asking price had to be at least a first or second round pick. The Herndon trade didn’t increase Ertz’s trade price, it revealed it.

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4 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

No argument there.

No I have no ants in my pants.  Let me ask you are you 100% happy an confident with how things have gone with most of the players in the draft?

In many cases guys show early if they can play at a high level or not.

I have no concerns about Becton. He was a standout player last year and was one of the top PFF rated Jets in the preseason games.  I don’t give a crap about what reporters tweeted about his practice reps. 

The only concern I have about Mims is the injuries, but I liked what I saw in the nine games he played last year, including the 15 yard average per catch. He wasn’t injury prone in college so I think he will be fine and I expect he will be starting at some point in 2021. 

Mann had a great preseason and Huff appears to have played well enough to be a starting corner. So there’s four starters right there. 

Perine was having a standout preseason before he hurt his foot and I expect him to stick around.

Don’t know what to make of the rest of the bunch because of the injuries. But even if they wash out, like I said, four starters and a 50% hit rate would make it a very successful draft. 

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1 hour ago, Cyberjet said:

Not really. And not  Minnesota’s opinion. I said it was a good trade. If it was for a 4th rounder without giving up a 6th rounder - that’s a great trade.

Who cares about Minnesota's opinion of Herndon?  NFL teams get stuff wrong all the time.  Just like Carolina did with Darnold and Seattle did with Jamal Adams.  

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38 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

How about this take:

“If (Herndon) plays the ball he can play and he finds some consistency, this is a steal for (the Vikings),’’ said former NFL quarterback Josh McCown, who played for the Jets in 2018. “There’s no doubt about it. Chris Herndon is a good football player. At his best, he’s as good as anybody. It’s just a matter of being consistent.’’

lmao

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14 hours ago, 92ShaunEllis92 said:

It is in this offense a receiving TE is rather key: Kittle, Fred Davis, Jordan Cameron, Logan Paulson all had good runs under Kyle Shannahan and this offense that LaFleur is trying to emulate. 

yep. true enough.  as one poster said the improved wr's also helps the te to get open more. imo they'll be okay and if the te position isn't quite as good as lafluer wants then he'll have to adapt.

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9 hours ago, Sonny Werblin said:

Don’t you think the vikings made a play for Ertz before calling the Jets for Herndon?  The Eagles asking price had to be at least a first or second round pick. The Herndon trade didn’t increase Ertz’s trade price, it revealed it.

I do not think that Ertz would be able to help the Vikings.  He has been productive as a pass catcher but has been unable to block his position inline for years   At this stage of his career, he is a H-back that is frequently injured.  The Vikings needed an inline tight end who could be the every down starter.  Chris Herndon frustrated Jet fans when his rookie campaign was followed by suspension, injury (after he came to camp out of shape) and a lost season.  Last year, rendered an afterthought as the Jet made a commitment to Griffin - I thought it odd at the time - Herndon retook the starting job easily due to his strong interior blocking.  That he dropped easy passes was the last straw for many Jet fans.  But I have long heard Jet fans complain about his blocking and this lacks a basis in fact.  Chris Herndon is a good blocker and would have had plenty of interest from the NFL after we let him walk which appeared to be the plan.  As for his poor performance in the early part of last season, c'mon fellas.  Do you remember our interior offensive line play early in the year?  Sam had a second to get rid of it.  Worst football I have ever seen from anybody.  We looked worse than Tampa Bay's expansion team (which played good defense).

That Joe D got a 4th round pick for him demonstrates what I wrote above.  Herndon's actual performance on the field has value.   I think fans underrate young blocking tight ends with an all around game and get confused by the flashy stats generated by an H-back who does not have to survive on the line of scrimmage.  Herndon is not a "never was."  Whether he is a "has been" or "needed a change of scenery" is the next chapter of his NFL career.  I wish him well.  Why?

He never threw his girlfriend down the stairs.  He never got arrested with an illegal (fill in the blank).  He kept his head down and his mouth shut.   Now, at the end of the day, he brought back in value what he had originally cost the Jets minus a 6th round pick.  That's a bargain.  

I forgive him for the suspension.  He was 22 years old. 

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29 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

I do not think that Ertz would be able to help the Vikings.  He has been productive as a pass catcher but has been unable to block his position inline for years   At this stage of his career, he is a H-back that is frequently injured.  The Vikings needed an inline tight end who could be the every down starter.  Chris Herndon frustrated Jet fans when his rookie campaign was followed by suspension, injury (after he came to camp out of shape) and a lost season.  Last year, rendered an afterthought as the Jet made a commitment to Griffin - I thought it odd at the time - Herndon retook the starting job easily due to his strong interior blocking.  That he dropped easy passes was the last straw for many Jet fans.  But I have long heard Jet fans complain about his blocking and this lacks a basis in fact.  Chris Herndon is a good blocker and would have had plenty of interest from the NFL after we let him walk which appeared to be the plan.  As for his poor performance in the early part of last season, c'mon fellas.  Do you remember our interior offensive line play early in the year?  Sam had a second to get rid of it.  Worst football I have ever seen from anybody.  We looked worse than Tampa Bay's expansion team (which played good defense).

That Joe D got a 4th round pick for him demonstrates what I wrote above.  Herndon's actual performance on the field has value.   I think fans underrate young blocking tight ends with an all around game and get confused by the flashy stats generated by an H-back who does not have to survive on the line of scrimmage.  Herndon is not a "never was."  Whether he is a "has been" or "needed a change of scenery" is the next chapter of his NFL career.  I wish him well.  Why?

He never threw his girlfriend down the stairs.  He never got arrested with an illegal (fill in the blank).  He kept his head down and his mouth shut.   Now, at the end of the day, he brought back in value what he had originally cost the Jets minus a 6th round pick.  That's a bargain.  

I forgive him for the suspension.  He was 22 years old. 

Well thought  out. This was not a steal of a trade for the Jets by any imagination. 
 

Now if the premise is that he was going to be cut anyway ((which I am not convinced) then you can say we got a 4th round draft pick in exchange for a 6th round pick plus improved cap space for a guy who was not going to be on the team anyway.

Minnesota gets a talented athlete that has not translated to the NFL albeit under the tutelage of Adam Gase.

I think it’s a good gamble trade for Minnesota. Worse case scenario he fails and they exchanged a 4th round pick for a 6th round pick

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10 hours ago, BroadwayRay said:

Fans are the last people in the universe I’m going to rely on for draft evaluations. They’re impulsive, short sighted, lousy talent evaluators and only care about what players have done lately.  You nor me won’t know how good or bad the Jets 2020 draft was for a few more seasons. 

that is nonsense -it was a bad draft and looks worse each and every day

hopefully joe nailed this past draft-if wilson and moore are studs nobody will care about Joe's first draft which was bad-mims busting out is the iceing on the cake 

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24 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

Minnesota gets a talented athlete 

You know what team needs a talented athlete at TE really badly?

The New York Jets.  

And by the way, Herndon really isn't that talented.  He wasn't that good in 2018, and when judging him on athletic ability only he's actually pretty well below average at the TE position compared to his NFL peers.  Just look at his scores when he was coming out of Miami:

christopher-herndon-ras-15567.png?resize

 

 

Mike Maccagnan rarely drafted elite athletes so this should be no surprise.

Herndon sucks.

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Report: Jets trade TE Chris Herndon to Vikings

  • Field Level Media
  •  
    • Aug 31, 2021 Updated 
 
 

The New York Jets are trading tight end Chris Herndon to the Minnesota Vikings, NFL Network reported Tuesday.

The Jets are expected to receive multiple draft picks in exchange.

 

We have our own perceptions -  the media outside New York has theirs. This guy is stating multiple draft picks for Herndon. He must think the Jets got fleeced

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3 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

 

We have our own perceptions -  the media outside New York has theirs. This guy is stating multiple draft picks for Herndon. He must think the Jets got fleeced

 

It's telling that you're using a bunch of positive opinions of Herndon that are clearly based on nothing tangible to form your opinions of this trade.

Anyone who actually watches Herndon play knows he sucks.  Straight up.  Who gives a sh*t what some media members who never see him play think?

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You know what team needs a talented athlete at TE really badly?

The New York Jets.  

And by the way, Herndon really isn't that talented.  Based on athletic ability he's actually below average at the TE position compared to his NFL peers.  Just look at his scores when he was coming out of Miami:

christopher-herndon-ras-15567.png?resize

Hey I’m on your side. I don’t think Herndon was going to succeed here. I don’t pay attention to numbers. There is no denying he has talent. Doesn’t mean he makes it in the NFL.

all I’m saying is that Minnesota exchanged a 4th round draft pick for a 6th round pick. That’s a good gamble and certainly did not get fleeced by the Jets

The Jets knew Herndon was not working. Vikings hope they can change that

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1 minute ago, Cyberjet said:

Hey I’m on your side. I don’t think Herndon was going to succeed here. I don’t pay attention to numbers. There is no denying he has talent. Doesn’t mean he makes it in the NFL.

all I’m saying is that Minnesota exchanged a 4th round draft pick for a 6th round pick. That’s a good gamble and certainly did not get fleeced by the Jets

The Jets knew Herndon was not working. Vikings hope they can change that

Yeah good luck with that!

Even though Gase rarely uses his TEs, this was not a coaching failure.  The new regime had all summer to get a good long look at Herndon and still decided to dump him.  Their opinions should be trusted a lot more than Minnesota's, who were in desperation mode after the Irv Smith injury.

If the Jets were set at TE you'd have a leg to stand on.  Our TE1 is about to be Tyler Kroft.  Herndon blows and its very clear we won this trade. 

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1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

It's telling that you're using a bunch of positive opinions of Herndon that are clearly based on nothing tangible to form your opinions of this trade.

Anyone who actually watches Herndon play knows he sucks.  Straight up.  Who gives a sh*t what some media members who never see him play think?

true... Herndon had a couple moments that gave hope, but disappeared more often than not. 

 

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10 minutes ago, kmnj said:

that is nonsense -it was a bad draft and looks worse each and every day

hopefully joe nailed this past draft-if wilson and moore are studs nobody will care about Joe's first draft which was bad-mims busting out is the iceing on the cake 

You have no idea what a "bad" draft is. Examples of those would be the ones we had in 2015, 2016 and 2018. Plus what does "each and every day" mean? The friggin season hasn't even started yet. LOL.

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7 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You know what team needs a talented athlete at TE really badly?

The New York Jets.  

And by the way, Herndon really isn't that talented.  He wasn't that good in 2018, and when judging him on athletic ability only he's actually pretty well below average at the TE position compared to his NFL peers.  Just look at his scores when he was coming out of Miami:

christopher-herndon-ras-15567.png?resize

 

 

Mike Maccagnan rarely drafted elite athletes so this should be no surprise.

Herndon sucks.

That’s a bit misleading.  While not a freakish athlete, Herndon is more athletic than those numbers show.   Remember, he was rehabbing a knee injury during the Pre draft process and wasn’t able to participate in all of the drills.  
 

That said, he’s had his chance here.   What really got him traded was his inability to block in this scheme and he isn’t nearly a good enough receiving threat to ignore the blocking deficiencies.  

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

It's telling that you're using a bunch of positive opinions of Herndon that are clearly based on nothing tangible to form your opinions of this trade.

Anyone who actually watches Herndon play knows he sucks.  Straight up.  Who gives a sh*t what some media members who never see him play think?

Well one argument that he has going for him is that Adam Gase was the head coach. 

Do you think Gase hindered his development?
 

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1 minute ago, sec101row23 said:

That’s a bit misleading.  While not a freakish athlete, Herndon is more athletic than those numbers show.   Remember, he was rehabbing a knee injury during the Pre draft process and wasn’t able to participate in all of the drills.  
 

That said, he’s had his chance here.   What really got him traded was his inability to block in this scheme and he isn’t nearly a good enough receiving threat to ignore the blocking deficiencies.  

 

Fair, but even at his best he wasn't that impressive a player or athlete.  Even if Minnesota gets the 2018 version of Herndon, he was well outside of the top 10 TEs in the league in production, at a position that isn't very deep.  That isn't worth a 4, especially for a player on an expiring contract.  He's a rental and not a good one.

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2 minutes ago, Cyberjet said:

Well one argument that he has going for him is that Adam Gase was the head coach. 

Do you think Gase hindered his development?
 

 

This post sums up my thoughts on that: 

 

5 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yeah good luck with that!

Even though Gase rarely uses his TEs, this was not a coaching failure.  The new regime had all summer to get a good long look at Herndon and still decided to dump him.  Their opinions should be trusted a lot more than Minnesota's, who were in desperation mode after the Irv Smith injury.

If the Jets were set at TE you'd have a leg to stand on.  Our TE1 is about to be Tyler Kroft.  Herndon blows and its very clear we won this trade. 

 

Adam Gase cannot be blamed for every offensive player who failed here. 

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1 minute ago, Cyberjet said:

If Herndon failed under a Bill Belicheck then he sucks.

 

I don’t think you can say the same having played for an Adam Gase team

 

He failed under Robert Saleh and Mike Lafleur all summer long.

If Adam Gase was Herndon's biggest problem, then surely the new regime would have figured this out and not traded him, no?

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