Urban Myers remarks on Jaguars cuts

[jeremy2020]

8 minutes ago, rillo said:

Not a fan of Urban, but meh, I don't see anything wrong here. You have a choice, and choices have consequences. 

Except that it's not allowed per the agreement between the NFL and NFLPA. 

So just like Cole Beasely agreed to abide by the rules of being unvaccinated and couldn't shut his mouth about it... here we have Meyer who agreed to abide by the rules and couldn't shut his mouth about it. 

Every team in the league is using the vaccination status as part of their criteria (as they should). You just have to keep your damn mouth shut about it. 

[bgivs21]

33 minutes ago, Warfish said:

For what?  NFL teams can cut players for any reason they choose.

The Coach could think the guy is a dick, and cut him for that alone, and there is nothing whatsoever the Players Union (or a Court) is going to do about it.

It's essentially discrimination based on a medical condition. 

You can fire anybody you want but you can't fire someone based on age, race, medical conditions etc.

I think it falls under a medical condition and Meyer basically came out and said we made decisions on a players employment based heavily on medical conditions. And before anyone jumps on it, no injuries like ACLS, broken bones arent the same becuase that limits a players ability to perform their jobs.

Grievences will definitely be filed by the PA, we'll see if someone brings a lawsuit. And btw, I have no issue with Meyer saying it, at least someone has the balls to. 

 

[CSNY]

3 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

It's essentially discrimination based on a medical condition. 

You can fire anybody you want but you can't fire someone based on age, race, medical conditions etc.

I think it falls under a medical condition and Meyer basically came out and said we made decisions on a players employment based heavily on medical conditions. And before anyone jumps on it, no injuries like ACLS, broken bones arent the same becuase that limits a players ability to perform their jobs.

Grievences will definitely be filed by the PA, we'll see if someone brings a lawsuit. And btw, I have no issue with Meyer saying it, at least someone has the balls to. 

 

Disagree with this premise. Unvaccinated people do not have a “ medical condition “ they have made a choice not to get vaccinated 

[clayton163v]

40 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I was of the impression that teams could cut/retain players for any reason they wanted as long as they were at least nominally relevant to the team's benefit.  If a team cuts a player for off-the-field conduct, that's fine.  A player's refusal to vaccinate has very real implications to the W/L record, particularly given the introduction of forfeits this season.  The idea that players get to make choices that affect their team and then expect to be protected from being cut because of those choices feels a little off to me.  But perhaps I'm just a dinosaur.

 

See below.

35 minutes ago, Warfish said:

For what?  NFL teams can cut players for any reason they choose.

The Coach could think the guy is a dick, and cut him for that alone, and there is nothing whatsoever the Players Union (or a Court) is going to do about it.

Both of these are fair takes if it were a typical employee/employer relationship.  But the NFL is a closed union shop whose rules are set by collective bargaining. and expressed in a collective bargaining agreement or CBA.  That contract's details govern EVERYTHING.  While I agree with both of you that a team can cut anyone it wants based on what they think is best for the team.  A teamwide POLICY implemented by the coach likely runs afoul of the CBA which surely envisioned the issue.   Remember, the league is functioning under an addition to the CBA drafted explicitly for COVID.  It expanded practice squads and interfered with multi-million dollar contracts with its "opt out" clause. among many, many other provisions.

Meyer announced a team policy for the Jaguars and said they had ALREADY done it.  You  cannot walk the cat backwards through the Crochet maze after that one fellas.      There are league and union lawyers who will spend their entire careers learning and applying the provisions of the CBA to individual cases.  The thing is like an old Manhattan phone book.  Meyer went WAY out of his depth.   I have no doubt the league has jumped down his throat.

And again, I have no issue with the policy.  Only the stupidity of a supervisor wandering into complex labor relations which are way beyond his scope of authority. 

 

[bgivs21]

Just now, CSNY said:

Disagree with this premise. Unvaccinated people do not have a “ medical condition “ they have made a choice not to get vaccinated 

It's still basing someone's employment on a medical condition. Think what you want but you could definitely bring a discrimination lawsuit. 

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, clayton163v said:

See below.

Both of these are fair takes if it were a typical employee/employer relationship.  But the NFL is a closed union shop whose rules are set by collective bargaining. and expressed in a collective bargaining agreement or CBA.  That contract's details govern EVERYTHING.  While I agree with both of you that a team can cut anyone it wants based on what they think is best for the team.  A teamwide POLICY implemented by the coach likely runs afoul of the CBA which surely envisioned the issue.   Remember, the league is functioning under an addition to the CBA drafted explicitly for COVID.  It expanded practice squads and interfered with multi-million dollar contracts with its "opt out" clause. among many, many other provisions.

Meyer announced a team policy for the Jaguars and said they had ALREADY done it.  You  cannot walk the cat backwards through the Crochet maze after that one fellas.      There are league and union lawyers who will spend their entire careers learning and applying the provisions of the CBA to individual cases.  The thing is like an old Manhattan phone book.  Meyer went WAY out of his depth.   I have no doubt the league has jumped down his throat.

And again, I have no issue with the policy.  Only the stupidity of a supervisor wandering into complex labor relations which are way beyond his scope of authority. 

 

/shrug

Let the player (or the Union) sue.  I think they'll lose, but as with many thing, would be interesting to see how it plays out.

[playtowinthegame]

26 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Is Zach Wilson vaccinated?

SAR I

 

Is that a rhetorical question? 

[Origen]

2 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

It's still basing someone's employment on a medical condition. Think what you want but you could definitely bring a discrimination lawsuit. 

What's the NFL's thought on Polio?  Vaccine or no?  Do they mandate it for Measles?  Mumps?

[CSNY]

4 minutes ago, bgivs21 said:

It's still basing someone's employment on a medical condition. Think what you want but you could definitely bring a discrimination lawsuit. 

But there is no medical condition. It was a choice made by an individual to not get vaccinated. You may have an argument if it was Rankins that didn’t get vaccinated due to his blood issues  and was cut   That blood issue qualifies as a medical condition. 

[GreenFish]

55 minutes ago, Warfish said:

For what?  NFL teams can cut players for any reason they choose.

The Coach could think the guy is a dick, and cut him for that alone, and there is nothing whatsoever the Players Union (or a Court) is going to do about it.

The league came out and said a team can’t cut a player because they’re unvaccinated. There’s no law that would be broken; so, I can’t see how someone can file a lawsuit. But I could see the league handing out some fines. It would be hard to prove though. So this is mostly a non event.

[jeremy2020]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

/shrug

Let the player (or the Union) sue.  I think they'll lose, but as with many thing, would be interesting to see how it plays out.

I don't think they would lose if it ever gets there as they had a specific agreement between the NFL and NFLPA that vaccination status could not be used. 

Every team did consider it in their decisions, but they just had to shut up and keep it behind closed doors. Meyer's attention whorism got the better of him here. 

Just now, GreenFish said:

The league came out and said a team can’t cut a player because they’re unvaccinated. There’s no law that would be broken; so, I can’t see how someone can file a lawsuit. But I could see the league handing out some fines. It would be hard to prove though. So this is mostly a non story.

There is no law broken. It would be a civil case based the NFL/NFLPA agreement which I'm assuming has a legal document signed by the parties and wasn't just a handshake verbal thing. 

[doitny]

36 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Is Zach Wilson vaccinated?

SAR I

i remember he was against getting it. so i doubt he is

[Larz]

He also managed to throw the GM under the bus lol.  The Jags PR department release is worded almost in a way that directly points out what they are afraid of, union grievances and disappointed fans 

[clayton163v]

1 minute ago, Origen said:

What's the NFL's thought on Polio?  Vaccine or no?  Do they mandate it for Measles?  Mumps?

If you were an NFL head coach like Meyer.  Don't you think you would know the answer to those questions BEFORE you wander up to a microphone and create national news?   Believe it or not.  It's in the CBA.  There are lots of disease rules in CBAs.  Take MERSA.  A classic NFL disease with protocols.  Remember, the current CBA was rewritten expressly  for COVID.  It's in there. 

A prudent executive would consult the team's lawyers about whether the CBA covers those issues (it surely does).  Those lawyers would instantly ask him to say NOTHING about it as it is the topic of ongoing and continuous discussions between the league, teams and the union.  Everybody is trying to stay on the same page - even the union - so the games can go on. 

Again.  I agree with the policy.  But the ignorance of Meyer is astounding.  Every NFL team does a huge business.  Let the professionals handle it.  The league and the teams have people on staff who do nothing else.  What a headache for the Jaguars.  A reporter with sand is going to ask the "no win" question of Trevor Lawrence.  It is a no win thing for the kid.  The NY Post has probably already asked him. 

 

[Origen]

44 minutes ago, doitny said:

i remember he was against getting it. so i doubt he is

He was but he got it.  Just look on the sidelines.  If they have a mask on, they aren't vaccinated.  No mask=vaccinated.

[Albaniajet]

3 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

Those are the types of comments that open up doors to lawsuits. 

Yeah lawsuits that get dismissed

[Albaniajet]

1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

I don't think they would lose if it ever gets there as they had a specific agreement between the NFL and NFLPA that vaccination status could not be used. 

Every team did consider it in their decisions, but they just had to shut up and keep it behind closed doors. Meyer's attention whorism got the better of him here. 

There is no law broken. It would be a civil case based the NFL/NFLPA agreement which I'm assuming has a legal document signed by the parties and wasn't just a handshake verbal thing. 

There is nothing in the CBA preventing the jags or any team from cutting players for refusing the vaccine

 

Teams cut players for medical conditions like injuries all the time.  Being unvaccinated is a medical condition 

[Albaniajet]

1 hour ago, bgivs21 said:

It's essentially discrimination based on a medical condition. 

You can fire anybody you want but you can't fire someone based on age, race, medical conditions etc.

I think it falls under a medical condition and Meyer basically came out and said we made decisions on a players employment based heavily on medical conditions. And before anyone jumps on it, no injuries like ACLS, broken bones arent the same becuase that limits a players ability to perform their jobs.

Grievences will definitely be filed by the PA, we'll see if someone brings a lawsuit. And btw, I have no issue with Meyer saying it, at least someone has the balls to. 

 

Players get cut after getting injured all the time.  There’s nothing in the CBA preventing this 

 

It’s not discriminatory if there are legitimate non discriminatory reasons for the personnel move.  Not wanting half the roster to be unable to play because someone won’t get the vaccine is legitimate and non discriminatory 

 

[kevinc855]

2 hours ago, rillo said:

Not a fan of Urban, but meh, I don't see anything wrong here. You have a choice, and choices have consequences. 

Exactly. If you are unvaccinated you are a liability. Sorry if you don’t like hearing that but #facts 

[Albaniajet]

2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Exactly. If you are unvaccinated you are a liability. Sorry if you don’t like hearing that but #facts 

I’m gonna lol hard if the bills miss the playoffs because Cole Beasley got half the roster infected 

[Copernicus]

30 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

I’m gonna lol hard if the bills miss the playoffs because Cole Beasley got half the roster infected 

Yes, because only the unvaccinated are getting/spreading covid 

[Albaniajet]

Just now, Copernicus said:

Yes, because only the unvaccinated are getting/spreading covid 

Pretty much yes

[kevinc855]

9 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Yes, because only the unvaccinated are getting/spreading covid 

Umm yes 

[Copernicus]

9 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

Pretty much yes

Ben Arthur

Nashville Tennessean

Tennessee Titans coach Mike Vrabel on Tuesday indicated that he’ll be rejoining his team for Wednesday’s practice. 

Vrabel, who is fully vaccinated against COVID-19, has been quarantining at home since testing positive for the virus Aug. 22. He previously stated that he’d be eligible to return after two negative tests in a 48-hour span or after a 10-day quarantine. 

[bla bla bla]

If I told you a few bubble players are more likely to be unavailable due to a condition that forces them to wear clown shoes for a set amount of time, you'd probably be more likely to keep different players.

Star players are the exception to this rule.

[jeremy2020]

1 hour ago, Albaniajet said:

There is nothing in the CBA preventing the jags or any team from cutting players for refusing the vaccine

 

Teams cut players for medical conditions like injuries all the time.  Being unvaccinated is a medical condition 

The current rules prohibit teams from using vaccination status as a factor. 

[Matt39]

32 minutes ago, Copernicus said:

Ben Arthur

Nashville Tennessean

Tennessee Titans coach Mike Vrabel on Tuesday indicated that he’ll be rejoining his team for Wednesday’s practice. 

Vrabel, who is fully vaccinated against COVID-19, has been quarantining at home since testing positive for the virus Aug. 22. He previously stated that he’d be eligible to return after two negative tests in a 48-hour span or after a 10-day quarantine. 

Arguably the biggest deterrent the NFL has to 100% vaccination rate is theyre still testing vaccinated personnel.

[clayton163v]

1 hour ago, Albaniajet said:

Players get cut after getting injured all the time.  There’s nothing in the CBA preventing this 

 

 

 

Did you really review the CBA?   It 439 pages. 

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/media/Default/NFLPA/CBA2020/NFL-NFLPA_CBA_March_5_2020.pdf

And there are strict rules regarding waiving injured players in that CBA.  I am not going to review it and get to the bottom of things.   But the COVID liability issues have not been sorted out.

Do not get me wrong.  I agree with the policy, I just think Meyer needs to understand he is not in college anymore.  The for-profit world is very different from the college dictatorship he is used to commanding. 

[Albaniajet]

4 hours ago, jeremy2020 said:

The current rules prohibit teams from using vaccination status as a factor. 

Where?

[jetstream23]

7 hours ago, Origen said:

What's the NFL's thought on Polio?  Vaccine or no?  Do they mandate it for Measles?  Mumps?

[jetstream23]

4 hours ago, Copernicus said:

Ben Arthur

Nashville Tennessean

Tennessee Titans coach Mike Vrabel on Tuesday indicated that he’ll be rejoining his team for Wednesday’s practice. 

Vrabel, who is fully vaccinated against COVID-19, has been quarantining at home since testing positive for the virus Aug. 22. He previously stated that he’d be eligible to return after two negative tests in a 48-hour span or after a 10-day quarantine. 

So, if he tested positive on Aug. 22, and he reported on Tuesday, Aug. 31, that he'd be back tomorrow then I'd assume he had a negative test on that Tuesday and another negative test 48 hours earlier on Sunday, Aug 29.  Basically, he had asymptomatic Covid for 7 days, from 8/22 thur 8/28.... does that seem right?

[Green Ghost]

@Copernicus

I’d wager that Urban Meyer could care less what Jet fans think about his decisions, or how they feel the media is always picking on their team.

We should feel the same way about him and his team.

[Gramsci]

7 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

It's still basing someone's employment on a medical condition. Think what you want but you could definitely bring a discrimination lawsuit. 

I don't think that would stand to be honest, since the NFLPA has bairganing power. Even if he wanted to bring a lawsuit, there are several priors that I think would be enough to dismiss the case for a supposed discrimation. 

[Fantasy Island]

9 hours ago, Copernicus said:

 

JACKSONVILLE, Fla. -- Jaguars coach Urban Meyer said he and general manager Trent Baalke took a player's vaccination status into consideration during final roster cuts.

Meyer said Tuesday that it was considered because of the more stringent COVID-19 protocols imposed on unvaccinated players who test positive or are identified as high-risk close contacts as compared with the protocols for vaccinated players.

Meyer’s remarks did not go over well with the NFL players association. 
 

This is not about how you feel about the vaccine and the mandates, but rather how the Jags cannot stay away from controversy.

If this is the case, why in the world would Urban Meyer say this out loud?

More (continued) distractions for Trevor Lawrence.

I find it insane how the Jaguars  get so little push back from the media. They have had a disastrous off season off and on the field.   I find it so curious the media lack of reaction/protection considering it was such a big deal if Lawrence went to the Jets and how we would destroy him. How we were the laughingstock.

Their owner is a minority, Pakistani-American.  In this day and age no one will challenge the moves for fear of cancellation.  The Jags are in way better position than Houston, Detroit or Philadelphia.

The media only goes after low hanging fruit.  In depth journalism died ages ago.

[Albaniajet]

9 hours ago, bgivs21 said:

It's essentially discrimination based on a medical condition. 

You can fire anybody you want but you can't fire someone based on age, race, medical conditions etc.

I think it falls under a medical condition and Meyer basically came out and said we made decisions on a players employment based heavily on medical conditions. And before anyone jumps on it, no injuries like ACLS, broken bones arent the same becuase that limits a players ability to perform their jobs.

Grievences will definitely be filed by the PA, we'll see if someone brings a lawsuit. And btw, I have no issue with Meyer saying it, at least someone has the balls to. 

 

You can’t discriminate based on disability (there are 6 protected classes race, sex, age, religion, disability and genetic information)

 

Refusing the vaccine isn’t a disability