The Panthers sure love acquiring the Jets' trash.

[jgb]

 

13 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I mean that's not what I was saying when I created this thread, but ok.  I don't think we're going to "hammer" Carolina, I think its gonna be an ugly 16-13 type of game and either team could win it.  Or perhaps Wilson will kill it and our secondary will be so bad even Darnold will have a good game and it'll be more like 27-24.

But I do find it funny that Carolina likes picking up the trash from said 2-win team.  Don't you?  

Carolina is going to be a bad team. Bridge to Darnold a downgrade. 

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I like Matt Rhule, but anyone who thinks that highly of Sam Darnold to trade a 2 & a 4 and hand him a $20M 5th-year option drops a couple notches in my book.  I chalk it up to arrogance; he thinks he can "fix" anyone, I guess.  But he's going to end up with severe buyer's remorse and may even get fired over it.  

If Rhule had let Darnold play out the last year of his rookie deal, he could probably survive if Darnold flopped. Alternatively, if Darnold went nuts and Panthers re-signed/franchised him, no one could reasonably criticize Rhule for not picking up the option with what we know now about Sam.

Instead, Rhule put the gun into his future critics' hands by authorizing the option with very little upside even if he is right.

Just makes no sense.

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Juston Burris is a strong safety now? 

Yep.  He was signed by Cleveland in 2018 after we dumped him.  He played CB for them in 2019, making 9 starts, then was brought in by the Panthers in 2020.  He started 12 games for Carolina last year at SS.  And he picked off more passes (1) than Jamal Adams did!  He now has 5 INT's on his career.

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Have to be willing to change your opinion of players over time when new info arrives, no?  I liked the Morgan pick (you should always take shots on QB's where you can, especially when you're a team in need of a QB) and had hopes of him being our QB2 for the next 3 seasons.  Clearly I was wrong, as we cut him in year 2 and he's on another team.  Thus what else can he be but "trash" at this stage? 

I don't think Carolina will keep him long, as (like others have mentioned) this seemed like a clear move to pump him for info on our offensive scheme.  So he'll be their "trash" too in short order.

You aren't wrong, actually. You always double down on an 11 but sometimes you still bust. Doesn't make it the incorrect decision.

 

[slimjasi]

11 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I like Matt Rhule (and Joe Brady as well), but anyone who thinks that highly of Sam Darnold to trade a 2 & a 4 and hand him a $20M 5th-year option drops a couple notches in my book.  I chalk it up to arrogance; he thinks he can "fix" anyone, I guess.  But he's going to end up with severe buyer's remorse and may even get fired over it.  

They should have just drafted Fields. 

If Darnold sucks there, he's risking losing his job. His first season in Carolina was meh at best. 

[Jetsfan80]

Just now, slimjasi said:

They should have just drafted Fields. 

If Darnold sucks there, he's risking losing his job. His first season in Carolina was meh at best. 

Yep, there was no good reason not to draft Fields.  Trade for Darnold....fine, I guess.  But don't hand him the 5th-year option and draft a QB as well to hedge your bets.  That would have been the right call.  Instead they went all-in on the worst QB in the NFL the last 3 seasons, and he's their QB for the next 2 years. 

[jgb]

Just thought of something. Maybe bringing on Darnold was a super-sneaky way for Rhule to knock Joe Brady out of the HC conversation until 2023. Crafty devil!

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Just thought of something. Maybe bringing on Darnold was a super-sneaky way for Rhule to knock Joe Brady out of the HC conversation until 2023. Crafty devil!

Playing 5D chess while everyone else is playing checkers.  Sneaky guy indeed.  

[jgb]

6 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

They should have just drafted Fields. 

If Darnold sucks there, he's risking losing his job. His first season in Carolina was meh at best. 

 

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep, there was no good reason not to draft Fields.  Trade for Darnold....fine, I guess.  But don't hand him the 5th-year option and draft a QB as well to hedge your bets.  That would have been the right call.  Instead they went all-in on the worst QB in the NFL the last 3 seasons, and he's their QB for the next 2 years. 

Very odd. They could've had Trubisky for zero draft capital and like $3-$4M to start for them. I'd sure as Hell rather have Trubisky than Darnold, and when you factor in that $20M... momma mia!

[Sperm Edwards]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep, there was no good reason not to draft Fields.  Trade for Darnold....fine, I guess.  But don't hand him the 5th-year option and draft a QB as well to hedge your bets.  That would have been the right call.  Instead they went all-in on the worst QB in the NFL the last 3 seasons, and he's their QB for the next 2 years. 

Honestly I don't think the math adds up gamble-wise. It's a gamble that the 5th yr option is better value than the franchise tag next year ($28.5MM vs $19MM), weighed against the possibility that he shows he's really only worth $5MM (give or take) and they're paying him $19MM. 

Even if they extended him, the 5th year option is initially no cheaper than the y1 cap number on a new contract, and a year later they'd have to extend him with such a contract anyway (and for higher $ given inflation & all that). 

I guess they could argue it's an extra season look-see at Darnold before committing $100MM guaranteed, but if they felt they couldn't judge him after this season (let's say 2 of his top 3 playmakers go on IR in September), then it's not the end of the world to start over with a different prospect (or worst case, just tag him for the next season). Never mind starting over is a whole lot cheaper and allows the team to buy upwards of 2 more high-end proven veteran starters. 

Whatever; both teams are gambling here, but I'd rather be on the Jets' side of the gamble than Carolina's. 

[jgb]

3 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Honestly I don't think the math adds up gamble-wise. It's a gamble that the 5th yr option is better value than the franchise tag next year ($28.5MM vs $19MM), weighed against the possibility that he shows he's really only worth $5MM (give or take) and they're paying him $19MM. 

Even if they extended him, the 5th year option is initially no cheaper than the y1 cap number on a new contract, and a year later they'd have to extend him with such a contract anyway (and for higher $ given inflation & all that). 

I guess they could argue it's an extra season look-see at Darnold before committing $100MM guaranteed, but if they felt they couldn't judge him after this season (let's say 2 of his top 3 playmakers go on IR in September), then it's not the end of the world to start over with a different prospect (or worst case, just tag him for the next season). Never mind starting over is a whole lot cheaper and allows the team to buy upwards of 2 more high-end proven veteran starters. 

Whatever; both teams are gambling here, but I'd rather be on the Jets' side of the gamble than Carolina's. 

Been saying the same. The only way Darnold plays under that option in 2022 is if he doesn't earn it. Terrible gamble.

[Franky Luvu]

Don't forget about me. I've been a damn preseason MVP on that defense.

[Jetsfan80]

12 minutes ago, Franky Luvu said:

Don't forget about me. I've been a damn preseason MVP on that defense.

That's right!  My apologies, sir, I have added you to the list.

[Ecuadorian Jet]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

With the signing of James Morgan today, the Panthers now have the following former Jets on their roster (4 of them are starters):

• QB Sam Darnold
• QB James Morgan
• RB Trenton Cannon
• WR Robby Anderson
• LG Pat Elflein
• OLB Frankie Luvu
• SS Juston Burris

Just call them Jets South, I suppose!  There will be a lot of pre-game hugs on the field in Week 1.  

I see us losing the game vs the Panthers, so let´s see how you feel about it later. 

[Spoot-Face]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Yep.  He was signed by Cleveland in 2018 after we dumped him.  He played CB for them in 2019, making 9 starts, then was brought in by the Panthers in 2020.  He started 12 games for Carolina last year at SS.  And he picked off more passes (1) than Jamal Adams did!  He now has 5 INT's on his career.

[slimjasi]

2 hours ago, jgb said:

 

Very odd. They could've had Trubisky for zero draft capital and like $3-$4M to start for them. I'd sure as Hell rather have Trubisky than Darnold, and when you factor in that $20M... momma mia!

I would drastically favor Fields on a rookie deal over either Trubisky or Darnold, but yea, the Darnold move only makes sense if they think Sam can be much better than we all do. 

[jgb]

42 minutes ago, slimjasi said:

I would drastically favor Fields on a rookie deal over either Trubisky or Darnold, but yea, the Darnold move only makes sense if they think Sam can be much better than we all do. 

I'm suggesting they could've done both. Remember Trubisky became a free agent and signed with BUF before the draft.

[Beerfish]

4 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

One of the few Macc picks who still is.  

Both mac and Idzik have done a good job of stocking CFL rosters the last 6 or 7 years though so they have that going for them.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

I see us losing the game vs the Panthers, so let´s see how you feel about it later. 

I'll still feel the same way about it as I do now.  No team should be coveting a bunch of former Mike Maccagnan draft picks and other scrubs from a team that just went 2-14.  If the Panthers beat us it'll be because we have no pass rush, the youngest secondary in the NFL and a rookie QB and rookie HC making their debuts.  Darnold may well have a career game but he still sucks and is the worst QB in the NFL.

Our future is much, much brighter than Carolina's regardless of how week 1 goes.

[clayton163v]

6 hours ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

AVT has been healthy and back at practice for a few days. Just because you didn't get to watch him on TV a few days ago during a meaningless preseason game doesn't mean he is still hurt. Same with Elijah Moore. 

 

https://nypost.com/2021/08/29/jets-alijah-vera-tucker-is-healthy-and-ready-to-dominate/

I am well aware that the Jets say all is well.  I too hope for the best.  But it is all talk until AVT actually takes the field.   It really is.   

I have seen this movie before.  Most recently with Osemele.  The Jets told us nice things about that too and it was pure wishful thinking. 

I fully expect AVT and Moore to be ready to go for game one.  But it really is game one for both of them.  The lack of depth on the interior offensive line really is a big deal.

 

[Ghost]

11 hours ago, The Crusher said:

No. Dexter McDougle. 

Oh, forgive me. How dare I get the two confused ? 

[The Crusher]

11 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Oh, forgive me. How dare I get the two confused ? 

Id forget myself if not for the “ Go Dexter”  tattoo on my belly. 

[Lizard King]

On 9/1/2021 at 10:19 PM, Jetsfan80 said:

With the signing of James Morgan today, the Panthers now have the following former Jets on their roster (4 of them are starters):

• QB Sam Darnold
• QB James Morgan
• RB Trenton Cannon
• WR Robby Anderson
• LG Pat Elflein
• OLB Frankie Luvu
• SS Juston Burris

Just call them Jets South, I suppose!  There will be a lot of pre-game hugs on the field in Week 1.  

I would have liked to have experienced a Robby Anderson with a real quarterback. He may talk like he grew up in some abandoned trailer but the kid has lightning speed and I’m sure would have been just fine with Zach because Zach doesn’t suck balls. 

[Lizard King]

18 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Both mac and Idzik have done a good job of stocking CFL rosters the last 6 or 7 years though so they have that going for them.

I am still not over Woody having hired an executive search firm to hire Idzik. To Me that was just pinnacle ineptitude and at that moment whatever optimism I had about the organization getting smarter about football flew out the window, never to return. 

[varjet]

1 hour ago, Lizard King said:

I am still not over Woody having hired an executive search firm to hire Idzik. To Me that was just pinnacle ineptitude and at that moment whatever optimism I had about the organization getting smarter about football flew out the window, never to return. 

That is basically why I am patient with having to hire JD first, then fixing the structure and allowing him to select who everyone agrees to be a good coach in the mold of a Tomlin, Flores, McDermott, etc.   I think the organization is heading in the right direction.  

My understanding is that JD's and Saleh's contracts are aligned now.  That is the right answer.  JD did start the OL overhaul last year, with McGovern, Fant and Becton.  Maybe Mims works out.   Other than that, the team build really started in 2021.  The Jets will need a big think if they are not in the playoffs in 2023.  

[Paradis]

all this pointing and laughing -- then Rhule will have Sam and Robbie dancing on our faces next weekend. You know they're salivating for this game.... I'm being facetious of course, but they will never more motivated than they will be next sunday

[Paradis]

20 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Our future is much, much brighter than Carolina's

[Jetsfan80]

25 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Our QB is a promising young Zach Wilson.  Their QB for the next 2 seasons is Sam Darnold.  We also have a sh*t ton more draft picks in 2022 than they have.

Until they draft a QB of their own rather than d**king around with mediocre (Bridgewater) or sh*tty (Darnold) veteran QB's, we're in the better situation.  They 100 % should have drafted Fields.

[Jetsfan80]

30 minutes ago, Paradis said:

all this pointing and laughing -- then Rhule will have Sam and Robbie dancing on our faces next weekend. 

No.

And I like Rhule and Joe Brady a lot as coaches.  Not so much as talent evaluators though. 

Bottom line is no coach can fix a sh*t QB.  Maybe they can hide him a bit.  But he's not dominating any NFL defense.  Darnold is going to be the same slow processor he was in New York, and will continue to make at least one boneheaded decision every game that makes you wonder how he was ever drafted at all.   

Maybe Week 1 will be his best game of the season, but for him, that means something like 225-250 yards, 1 TD and 1 INT.  Or maybe 2 TDs with 1-2 INTs and/or 1 fumble lost, depending on how often they ask Darnold to throw in this one.  And it'll be McCaffrey and Moore doing the damage, not Robby Anderson.

[Paradis]

14 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Our QB is a promising young Zach Wilson.  Their QB for the next 2 seasons is Sam Darnold.  We also have a sh*t ton more draft picks in 2022 than they have.

Until they draft a QB of their own rather than d**king around with mediocre (Bridgewater) or sh*tty (Darnold) veteran QB's, we're in the better situation.  They 100 % should have drafted Fields.

Adressing both your replies...

Your assessment of CAR's future/potential is far too heavily weighted in your disdain for Darnold. He's not that bad, not as bad as you're accusing him of being. Nick Foles and his SB ring will always be a shining example of what a staff & system can do. 

Eitherway -- they will be motivated this next Sunday. 

[Jetsfan80]

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Adressing both your replies...

Your assessment of CAR's future/potential is far too heavily weighted in your disdain for Darnold. He's not that bad, not as bad as you're accusing him of being. Nick Foles and his SB ring will always be a shining example of what a staff & system can do. 

 

I mean, he's been the worst starting QB in the NFL for 3 straight years, including ranking as QB36 last year, so how exactly am I far off on this one?  The corpse of Joe Flacco outplayed him last season in the exact same set of circumstances Darnold was stuck in.  Darnold also led FBS in turnovers his final year of USC so you can't even argue that the Jets were what "ruined" him entirely.  He was already a highly flawed prospect upon his arrival in New York.  We just overlooked his deficiencies because of one Rose Bowl performance.  

I agree that he'll be better in Carolina than he was here.  But for Darnold that means ranking QB25 at best rather than QB32.  When someone says a player is "not that bad", it's not exactly a ringing endorsement.  Darnold needs to prove he can play in year 4 and there's no good evidence to suggest he will.  All available evidence and historical precedence is on my side, with perhaps the lone exception of Josh Allen (who had a monster year in year 3 while Darnold was QB36).  

I love how people accuse me of being unfair to Darnold or having excessive "disdain" for him.  When you're the worst at your position how do you not deserve some level of disdain?  We're fans, we should ask for better play.  I don't give 2 f**ks about most players who come through New York unless they produce. 

The hope is that we finally have a QB who performs like a professional QB in Wilson, for the first time since Ken O'Brien.  I don't think that's too much to ask.  

 

  

9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

Eitherway -- they will be motivated this next Sunday. 

A "motivated" Darnold is the same as regular Darnold:  A boogie boarding mush.  

@JiFapono

(and yes, I know JiF is on your side of this one; that Darnold is going to dominate because Jets)

[Flea Flicking Frank]

4 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I mean, he's been the worst starting QB in the NFL for 3 straight years, including ranking as QB36 last year, so how exactly am I far off on this one?  The corpse of Joe Flacco outplayed him last season in the exact same set of circumstances Darnold was stuck in.  Darnold also led FBS in turnovers his final year of USC so you can't even argue that the Jets "ruined" him.  He was already a highly flawed prospect upon his arrival in New York.  We just overlooked his deficiencies because of one Rose Bowl performance.  

I agree that he'll be better in Carolina than he was here.  But for Darnold that means ranking QB25 at best rather than QB32.  

I love how people accuse me of being unfair to Darnold or having excessive "disdain" for him.  When you're the worst at your position how do you not deserve some level of disdain?  The hope is that we finally have a QB who performs like a professional QB.  I don't think that's too much to ask.  

Did Darnold schtup your sister or something brah?

[Paradis]

10 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

I mean, he's been the worst starting QB in the NFL for 3 straight years, including ranking as QB36 last year, so how exactly am I far off on this one?  The corpse of Joe Flacco outplayed him last season in the exact same set of circumstances Darnold was stuck in.

I agree that he'll be better in Carolina than he was here.  But for Darnold that means ranking QB25 at best rather than QB32.  

I love how people accuse me of being unfair to Darnold or having excessive "disdain" for him.  When you're the worst at your position how do you not deserve some level of disdain?  The hope is that we finally have a QB who performs like a professional QB.  I don't think that's too much to ask.  

I mean it when i say I'm fairly Darnold neutral. I was more of Baker/Rosen guy that draft cycle, and didn't have a big attachment to Sam beyond some glimmers of hope in his rookie year... but Sam the last couple years? Who cares. Adam Gase is the only real conversation to be had.

I don't mean this in a pandering way - but when was the last time you played competitive sports? I played well into my mid-late 30s and it's.... ignorant? (not in a condescending way) to circle Sam's stats, ratings and all - and ignore the team conditions. Success is not a static equation. 

Especially in football, outside of a few outliers like Brady and Manning, QBs are largely just drivers. The team is the car and the coaches are the navigators riding shotgun. Coaches can win with many QBs. We place QBs on too high pedestal, as though it's them who determine how good a team can be. ....Its the coaching staff you need to be more critical of. 

[Jetsfan80]

4 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Did Darnold schtup your sister or something brah?

No he just sucked at QB after being drafted # 3.  The larger hate is for Mike Maccagnan but Darnold sucks too.  I don't like players who suck.  Sue me.  

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

No he just sucked at QB after being drafted # 3.  The larger hate is for Mike Maccagnan but Darnold sucks too.  I don't like players who suck.  Sue me.  

Ive never seen someone spend as much time and energy on an ex Jet as you do with Darnold, to each their own I guess

[Jetsfan80]

14 minutes ago, Paradis said:

I mean it when i say I'm fairly Darnold neutral. I was more of Baker/Rosen guy that draft cycle, and didn't have a big attachment to Sam beyond some glimmers of hope in his rookie year... but Sam the last couple years? Who cares. Adam Gase is the only real conversation to be had.

I don't mean this in a pandering way - but when was the last time you played competitive sports? I played well into my mid-late 30s and it's.... ignorant? (not in a condescending way) to circle Sam's stats, ratings and all - and ignore the team conditions. Success is not a static equation. 

Especially in football, outside of a few outliers like Brady and Manning, QBs are largely just drivers. The team is the car and the coaches are the navigators riding shotgun. Coaches can win with many QBs. We place them on too high pedestal, its the coaching staff you need to be more critical of. 

 

Yes, I've played team sports.  All of my childhood and in HS.  

QB is the most important position on the field, and internal variables for the QB matter a good bit more than the team/coaches around him.  You have to be a quick processor, have the right personality/attitude, be accurate, have a decent enough arm, be able to make pre-snap decisions (which you need to learn when you're younger, you can't learn that on the fly in the pros), etc.  Better circumstances have never once in NFL history taken a bad QB and made him good.  Not once.  You may think there are examples that oppose such a claim but I assure you there really aren't.  A guy like Josh Allen had a manical drive to get better.  It wasn't Stefon Diggs that "fixed" him.  And there are a lot of other guys who weren't as bad as people would think when they first started out.  Ryan Tannehill, Drew Brees, Eli Manning, Steve Young...those guys showed a LOT more their first few years than Sam Darnold did.  

The talent around you can affect you a lot more at other positions (like having a great LT next to you helps G's, and a great EDGE rusher next to you helps DT's, etc).  But QB's have to simply "have it" or they don't, hence why its such a difficult position to evaluate.  The most difficult in pro sports.  Often you don't really know what you'll have until they arrive and start practicing at the pro level.  But as difficult a job it is, excuses just don't fly at that position, because QB's who suck their first 2-3 years tend to go on to suck at other, better destinations in 95+ % of instances.  If a QB is "secretly good", he's going to show it fairly quickly.  It's not going to take 40+ starts to see it.  You don't see the Arizona Cardinals regretting letting go of Josh Rosen after 13 starts, do you?  How about the Browns with DeShone Kizer, the Panthers with Jimmy Clausen, the Raiders with JaMarcus Russell, the Rams with Jared Goff, the the Bucs with Jameis Winston, the Titans with Marcus Mariota, the WFT with Dwayne Haskins, the Jaguars with Blake Bortles, etc etc etc.

Justin Herbert played behind the # 32 ranked OL and a HC who ended up getting fired, yet he threw for 31 TD's and just 10 INT's as a rookie.  He appears to "have it".  Darnold never has and never will.  And why is that so surprising to suggest?  At any given time, only about 12-15 people on the planet can play the QB position at a high level, and every other team is looking for an upgrade.  Sure, you'll argue a lot has to go right for a QB to be able to show he "has it", but you're wrong about which things have to go right.  What has to go right is a QB having the natural abilities and getting tons and tons of reps in High School and college before arriving in the pros.  When you get to the pros, again, you either have it or you don't.  You put wayyyyy too much stock into how much pro coaches can help pro QB's play QB better.  A QB's success is probably at least 70 % reliant on characteristics/skills/DNA he brings to the table well before arriving in the NFL.  Just like 60+ % of who we are as human beings is driven by our DNA.  Coaches can provide a great system and that certainly helps.  But you're insane if you think a QB like Joe Montana or Pat Mahomes wouldn't have had tons of success in ANY system.  

Either way, all of the numbers are on my side of this one.  Darnold will do better in Carolina, but he's not becoming a top 10 or middle of the pack QB there.  Circumstances can only do so much for QB's who suck at football.