kmnj Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Irktusk1957 Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 Players need to fit the coaches system. 11 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, Irktusk1957 said: Players need to fit the coaches system. Seems to be a factor and nice job bringing it up, 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirorob Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 2 minutes ago, kmnj said: many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. I think some of the grade will depend on if Mims and or Davis can get healthy and contribute. Some of the picks were poor, some of the players have just been hurt, which makes it tougher to evaluate. At the time, I liked the draft, I thought Mims would be a player, I liked the first 3 picks, I loved the Mann pick, but it looks like they may be getting just a LT and a punter out of the whole draft, which is not enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daddy Wang Doodle Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 No 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Alka Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 13 minutes ago, kmnj said: many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. I completely agree with others that say you can't evaluate Joe's first draft yet. Mims, a second year player will tell us a lot this year, and Ashton Davis will also tell us a lot this year. Cam Clarke is still a Jet, and we won't know about him until next year. If Mims and Davis come through this year and play to where we hope, then if nothing else happens, last years draft will be a success, assuming that Becton continues his good play from last year. If in addition to what I just said, if Cam Clarke comes back next year and proves to be a solid #2 backup guard, then I think we would have gotten what we hoped for after drafting him in the 4th round. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmnj Posted September 3, 2021 Author Share Posted September 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, Irktusk1957 said: Players need to fit the coaches system. so joe drafted guys that didnt fit into his coaches system? why would he do that-that is worse then saying they needed time to develop 8 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post shuler82 Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 10 minutes ago, kmnj said: many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. Because there were better options on the roster? Because you can only hold onto 53 guys? You can't judge a player after a single season - especially after one with no camp and preseason games. But this offseason brought in a new coaching staff with different schemes. That's not to say there aren't already warning signs - Morgan looked horrible in camp, Zuniga is a ghost, Clark can't stay on the field. But as of today, we have a starting LT, starting CB, two developing players in Mims and Davis (yeah, another walking injury, but interested to see him in this system) and a punter. It's an IF, but IF Mims and Davis pan out, it's suddenly looking like a really solid draft, regardless of what happens with Clark or Zuniga, or that we 'wasted' a 4th round pick on a QB who fell on his face. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barry McCockinner Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 Just now, kmnj said: so joe drafted guys that didnt fit into his coaches system? why would he do that-that is worse then saying they needed time to develop bro 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post shuler82 Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 minute ago, kmnj said: so joe drafted guys that didnt fit into his coaches system? why would he do that-that is worse then saying they needed time to develop You do realize he drafted these players when Gase was still the coach? If you're going to go full troll, don't make yourself look stupid. 12 1 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post FidelioJet Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 26 minutes ago, kmnj said: many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. Let's do it again! 6 players from that 7 round draft will be playing a contributing role on this years team. 4 of them starting: Becton, Hall, Huff, Mann 2 expected to get meaningful snaps: Mims and Perine That's not even including Davis - who when back is also expected to play. It is BEYOND any reasonable assessment to continue to push this fallacy and have people believe it. Just because you keep saying it over and over again isn't going to change the FACTS! 17 1 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SomebodytoAnybody47 Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 22 minutes ago, kmnj said: many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. It wasn’t great. So far…but so what? It’s one draft. IF Becton, Mims and Hall stick as above average starters, then it changes back to a very good draft. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesr Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 There's a difference between fans / media talking heads evaluating a draft and GM's / coaches evaluating the players individually. Fans usually look at a draft class to evaluate a GM - is he up to the job or is he not. To me that's like looking at a rookie's stats to decide if he'll ever be a good player or not (quite a common hobby around these parts ). (For a bit of a laugh I looked at Ozzie Newsome's draft record earlier ... quite impressive overall but some real howlers in there too. Kyle Boller? Brashad Perriman? ). While it is fair to say that Joe's first draft looks less impressive now than it did at the time, it can't be judged as a pass / fail already. Yes, some of the mid rounders have washed out. But there are still plenty of ways it could go overall. If Becton can shake the injury niggles of Year 1 he could become a Top 10 LT in only his second year. Or he could miss a load of games and struggle for consistency leaving a big ? entering the off season. Mims could languish on the depth chart and become a forgotten man, or he could make the most of the opportunities he gets in Year 2 and earn a more prominent role in Year 3. Davis and Hall could boom / bust / be serviceable starters. Zuniga ... well, even I'm not going to go there. Until more of the story is written on these guys I think it's tough to describe an overall class as poor. It may yet be so, but it may not. Top 10 LT, solid #2 WR, starting S and CB out of one draft? I'd take that in a heartbeat. But we don't know if that's what we have yet, or if we ever will. It could also be injury prone LT we couldn't rely on, #4 WR that we move on from in 1-2 years and a couple of backups / ST players. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Icer Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 8 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Lith Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 21 minutes ago, chirorob said: I think some of the grade will depend on if Mims and or Davis can get healthy and contribute. Some of the picks were poor, some of the players have just been hurt, which makes it tougher to evaluate. At the time, I liked the draft, I thought Mims would be a player, I liked the first 3 picks, I loved the Mann pick, but it looks like they may be getting just a LT and a punter out of the whole draft, which is not enough. They got a CB too. Bryce Hall. And Perine looks like he will be part of the rotation. Zuniga/Morgan -- can't defend those picks now with benefit of hindsight. Also, nobody ever brings up the contributions of UDFAs he signed drafft weekend. Bryce Huff appears to be a solid situational pass rusher and Javelin Guidry is a potential starting nickel. If Huff were drafted instead of Zuniga and Guidry were drafted, we would look at the draft differently. Was it a great draft? No. Was it a bad draft, maybe, maybe not. Appears to be some hits, some misses and some too early to tell. Ask me again in December - I may have a different opinion. 7 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HawkeyeJet Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 In my opinion it isn’t so much you can’t evaluate a player in 1 year. I think the biggest issue when it comes to these discussions amongst fans is not the James Morgan’s or Christian Hackenburg’s of the world who show next to or absolutely no redeemable attributes. Fans and GMs alike can see they don’t have it pretty quickly. Where it gets a lot more difficult is Denzel Mims. In quite a few people’s opinion the book on Mims is already written. Some look at his Rookie season as a whole and so far his lackluster training camp and they are ready to move on. However I think Mims showed more than enough physical ability last year to say the jury is still out on him. The people who have written him off may very well be right. The process to get to that conclusion so quickly might be wrong. I also think people have a very skewed idea of what a successful draft pick is, especially RD 3 and later. That’s a different discussion though. 8 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post nycdan Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 So in your own words back right before the draft: On 4/29/2021 at 1:37 PM, kmnj said: I will be surprised and happy if joe uses all of the early picks to build a foundation around wilson to help him succeed. I believe the second first rounder will be used on defense which would be a disgrace-if you want wilson to have a chance give him protection and weapons. Our future is tied to wilson playing well-all attention needs to go to that. Defense can be addressed late and next year after the offense has a solid foundation JD did exactly what you said would make you happy, but from that moment, you have bashed him in every thread possible, and are now creating new threads to continue your ongoing campaign to get people here to agree with you. Feels like this current thread could have just stayed in the 'Fire Joe Douglas' thread. No issue with being critical of the first draft. But you are starting to enter DWC territory with how hard you are pushing your narrative, this week in particular. 4 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post chirorob Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 14 minutes ago, Lith said: They got a CB too. Bryce Hall. And Perine looks like he will be part of the rotation. Zuniga/Morgan -- can't defend those picks now with benefit of hindsight. Also, nobody ever brings up the contributions of UDFAs he signed drafft weekend. Bryce Huff appears to be a solid situational pass rusher and Javelin Guidry is a potential starting nickel. If Huff were drafted instead of Zuniga and Guidry were drafted, we would look at the draft differently. Was it a great draft? No. Was it a bad draft, maybe, maybe not. Appears to be some hits, some misses and some too early to tell. Ask me again in December - I may have a different opinion. If you can get 2 starters, and several role players out of a draft, that's a success. You are talking about 7 picks on average, and every team will miss some. I really never have a problem taking a QB in the 4th or 5th. Zuniga, that was an awful pick, no defending it. Mims and Davis are health issues, if Mims gets healthy and produces, that draft looks pretty good all of a sudden. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lith Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 32 minutes ago, chirorob said: If you can get 2 starters, and several role players out of a draft, that's a success. You are talking about 7 picks on average, and every team will miss some. I really never have a problem taking a QB in the 4th or 5th. Zuniga, that was an awful pick, no defending it. Mims and Davis are health issues, if Mims gets healthy and produces, that draft looks pretty good all of a sudden. I don't disagree. I just think it is hard to call a draft a good draft if you whiff on 3 of the first 4 picks. At least one or two of Mims, Davis or Zuniga need to step up and be players. Even if we got contiibutors later (Perine, Mann, Hall), it will be a big missed opportunity if all 3 guys bust. I am still a big fan of Mims and think he will be fine and we will look back on this as a solid draft. And yes, I am still including Zuniga -- I have no expectations that he will be a contirubtor, but he is still on the practice squad. His book is not completely written yet, even though the first few chapters have been pretty bad. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronxville Jets Fan Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, chirorob said: At the time, I liked the draft, I thought Mims would be a player, I liked the first 3 picks, I loved the Mann pick, but it looks like they may be getting just a LT and a punter out of the whole draft, which is not enough. What about Bryce Hall? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 'Drafting for scheme' is very overrated as an excuse why guys suck. Also coaches that have such a narrow scheme that they can't fit good players into it are garbage. Morgan is gone because he was the 4th best QB on the team. Zuniga is psquad fodder because he cannot rush the passer. Perine is down the list of RBs because he is limited. Mims is a 4th or 5th string Wr because he has not been great and gets hurt all the time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claymation Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 54 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Let's do it again! 6 players from that 7 round draft will be playing a contributing role on this years team. 4 of them starting: Becton, Hall, Huff, Mann 2 expected to get meaningful snaps: Mims and Perine That's not even including Davis - who when back is also expected to play. It is BEYOND any reasonable assessment to continue to push this fallacy and have people believe it. Just because you keep saying it over and over again isn't going to change the FACTS! Javelin Guidry! The guy gets no love. No love I tell you. And he has the coolest 1st name ever. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheNuuFaaolaExperience Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, kmnj said: so joe drafted guys that didnt fit into his coaches system? why would he do that-that is worse then saying they needed time to develop Adam Gase was our coach last year. The draft would have been different if Saleh was in the draft room. Nasirildeen and Sherwood have Saleh written all over them. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnknownJetFan Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, kmnj said: many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. His 1st draft did produce 3 starters LT Becton, CB Hall, and P Mann. Plus WR Mims and RB Perine as backups that could be very good at the WR and RB rotations respectively. Zuniga was brought back to the PS and could develop since injuries have slowed him. QB Morgan would have stayed, but White beat him out as the more stead better prospect moving forward. Others were injured but could come back like G Cam Clark and S Davis so we will see if they ever pan out. Not sure I would consider that such a bad draft, and I didn't even include UDFA Huff who could start or will likely really help our never ending Edge rushing production need. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dunnie Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, kmnj said: many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. If only someone would make a thread evauating Joe D's performance. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kolchak Posted September 3, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 3, 2021 I take it as a positive that the GM will cut his picks. It's one thing to make a pick. It's another to stick with the pick regardless of their poor showing or poor fit. Seems to me that's how you keep Hackenberg and pass on Mahommes and Watson. Belichick would cut bait on someone not working out. JD should too. 4 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joejet Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, kmnj said: so joe drafted guys that didnt fit into his coaches system? why would he do that-that is worse then saying they needed time to develop I would think even you should be able to figure out that the coaching staff is different this year than last year. The 2020 draft would have been with input from Gase and his staff and the 2021 draft would have been with input from Saleh and his staff. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, kmnj said: so joe drafted guys that didnt fit into his coaches system? why would he do that-that is worse then saying they needed time to develop Gase was the coach for that first draft. now its Saleh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: Let's do it again! 6 players from that 7 round draft will be playing a contributing role on this years team. 4 of them starting: Becton, Hall, Huff, Mann 2 expected to get meaningful snaps: Mims and Perine That's not even including Davis - who when back is also expected to play. It is BEYOND any reasonable assessment to continue to push this fallacy and have people believe it. Just because you keep saying it over and over again isn't going to change the FACTS! This is absurd. Huff wasn't drafted. Mann is a punter. When you draft one the least you expect is that they're very good never mind starting. There's a reason most teams don't do that. Hall is a starter yes but that's more a reflection of the state of that unit - comfortably the worst in football. He's no further along that Blessuan Austin was the same stage. Proven nothing. Becton is the only starter of any quality and even there he couldn't really miss with Tristan Wirfs the alternative. Becton actually has to improve to justify passing on Wirfs. As for the others: Perine shouldn't have made the roster. Adams outplayed him at every turn. Worst pick of the bunch. Nothing player. Mims was losing reps to guys who are no longer on the roster and he can't stay healthy. He's well behind where anyone would have hoped at this stage. Davis has been a total crock - In fact just about everyone except Hall and the punter haven't been able to stay healthy. By any measure that draft has been catastrophe to this point. Mims and Davis are the best chance to turn it around but for now they can't even get themselves on the field. It's not a write off yet but the early signs are so horrible. Taking genuine trash like Perine with Gabriel Davis on the board, missing wildly on Morgan and Zuniga instead of double dipping at WR in a deep class. Horrible moves at the time that are even worse with hindsight. You need to get depth in those rounds and we got guys who will be out of the league in 3 years. 3 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warfish Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, kmnj said: many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor Who are these folks? I'm not aware of this being a majority or even widespread view. 1 hour ago, kmnj said: say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player? You generally can't get a full eval. of most players after only one year, especially a COVID, no-camp type unusual year. But no, you can evaluate a player after a single play if you want. The Coaches are constantly evaluating players from day 1, and so can we. Just note that when one makes definitive statements after one practice, there is a good likely hood their day 1 evaluation will potentially be quite wrong as time goes on. 1 hour ago, kmnj said: I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?- Because it didn't take many years. 1 hour ago, kmnj said: the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has , the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. That certainly seems to be JD's view. I will stress that first draft should be described as a the JD/Gase draft. I have no doubt in my mind that at that point, Gase was running the show on who was picked, not JD. JMO, you're free to think otherwise if you like. 1 hour ago, kmnj said: p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not .. As do we all. All comes down to Wilson, really. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
More Cowbell Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, HawkeyeJet said: In my opinion it isn’t so much you can’t evaluate a player in 1 year. I think the biggest issue when it comes to these discussions amongst fans is not the James Morgan’s or Christian Hackenburg’s of the world who show next to or absolutely no redeemable attributes. Fans and GMs alike can see they don’t have it pretty quickly. Where it gets a lot more difficult is Denzel Mims. In quite a few people’s opinion the book on Mims is already written. Some look at his Rookie season as a whole and so far his lackluster training camp and they are ready to move on. However I think Mims showed more than enough physical ability last year to say the jury is still out on him. The people who have written him off may very well be right. The process to get to that conclusion so quickly might be wrong. I also think people have a very skewed idea of what a successful draft pick is, especially RD 3 and later. That’s a different discussion though. I'm not that high on Mims. I think a lot of people were jist happy this guy could catch a football last season. IMO Mims does have a place on this team as a possession receiver. I think we were all hoping for Julio Jones but he seems more like Jericho Cotchery to me which isn't a bad thing. We need guys lime this and so does every team. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FidelioJet Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 9 minutes ago, Irish Jet said: This is absurd. Huff wasn't drafted. Mann is a punter. When you draft one the least you expect is that they're very good never mind starting. There's a reason most teams don't. Hall is a starter yes but that's more a reflection of the state of that unit. He's no further along that Blessuan Austin was the same stage. Proven nothing. Becton is the only starter of any quality and even there he couldn't really miss with Tristan Wirfs the aleternative. Becton actually has to improve to justify passing on Wirfs. As for the others: Perine shouldn't have made the roster. Adams outplayed him at every turn. Worst pick of the bunch. Nothing player. Mims was losing reps to guys who are no longer on the roster and he can't stay healthy. He's well behind where anyone would have hoped at this stage. Davis has been a total crock - In fact just about everyone except Hall and the punter haven't been able to stay healthy. By any measure that draft has been catastrophe to this point. Mims and Davis are the best chance to turn it around but for now they can't even get themselves on the field. It's not a write off yet but the early signs are so horrible. Taking genuine trash like Perine with Gabriel Davis on the board, missing wildly on Morgan and Zuniga instead of double dipping at WR in a deep class. Horrible moves at the time that are even worse with hindsight. You need to get depth in those rounds and we got guys who will be out of the league in 3 years. So. You decided. Based on rookie campaigns that the GM and the HC of the Jets are wrong in starting 4 players and giving substantial roles to two others? or are you using Rich Cimini tweets to make that assessment? Finding 4 starters and 3 contributors from a single draft is HOF level GMing 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rangerous Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, FidelioJet said: Let's do it again! 6 players from that 7 round draft will be playing a contributing role on this years team. 4 of them starting: Becton, Hall, Huff, Mann 2 expected to get meaningful snaps: Mims and Perine That's not even including Davis - who when back is also expected to play. It is BEYOND any reasonable assessment to continue to push this fallacy and have people believe it. Just because you keep saying it over and over again isn't going to change the FACTS! yep. i'm not quite sure why there's this perception that douglas is cutting all these players from his first draft. the only two i know are morgan and zuniga. and zuniga wasn't cut but sent to the practice squad. as you point out there are 4 starters and two that will contribute. and davis and clark are injured. let's see if joe can get this many on every draft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doitny Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 1 hour ago, jamesr said: There's a difference between fans / media talking heads evaluating a draft and GM's / coaches evaluating the players individually. Fans usually look at a draft class to evaluate a GM - is he up to the job or is he not. To me that's like looking at a rookie's stats to decide if he'll ever be a good player or not (quite a common hobby around these parts ). (For a bit of a laugh I looked at Ozzie Newsome's draft record earlier ... quite impressive overall but some real howlers in there too. Kyle Boller? Brashad Perriman? ). While it is fair to say that Joe's first draft looks less impressive now than it did at the time, it can't be judged as a pass / fail already. Yes, some of the mid rounders have washed out. But there are still plenty of ways it could go overall. If Becton can shake the injury niggles of Year 1 he could become a Top 10 LT in only his second year. Or he could miss a load of games and struggle for consistency leaving a big ? entering the off season. Mims could languish on the depth chart and become a forgotten man, or he could make the most of the opportunities he gets in Year 2 and earn a more prominent role in Year 3. Davis and Hall could boom / bust / be serviceable starters. Zuniga ... well, even I'm not going to go there. Until more of the story is written on these guys I think it's tough to describe an overall class as poor. It may yet be so, but it may not. Top 10 LT, solid #2 WR, starting S and CB out of one draft? I'd take that in a heartbeat. But we don't know if that's what we have yet, or if we ever will. It could also be injury prone LT we couldn't rely on, #4 WR that we move on from in 1-2 years and a couple of backups / ST players. dont forget about Mann. Punters get no respect. LOL yes he struggled but if he could put it together its a big deal. every time we have to give the other team the ball back if he can kick it deep in there territory or kick it out of bounds on the 5 yd line that is HUGE. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted September 3, 2021 Share Posted September 3, 2021 15 minutes ago, FidelioJet said: Finding 4 starters and 3 contributors from a single draft is HOF level GMing Honestly can't tell if this is serious are not. Whether someone's a contributor or a starter directly correlates to how good or bad the roster is. Blessuan Austin was a starter last year and is without a job this year. So by your amazing logic he was a fantastic pick until 2 days ago. Any punter who is drafted is going to start. Any kicker who is drafted is going to start. To include Mann as if he's some amazing find in the later rounds is actually discrediting to any point you're trying to make. Mann has actually underperformed to justify using a pick. Any punter worth a draft pick should be at least top half of the league in most categories and Mann came nowhere close. Again. Huff wasn't drafted. He's not a draft pick. He does not count. At all. So I guess Mims has gotten considerably worse this year seeing as he's dropped from "starter" to "contributor". We should be worried about such a decline because obviously such classifications have nothing to do with the external context and are totally reflective of the players quality. All of Mims, Davis, Perine are further down the depth chart than they were this time a year ago. Nonsense. All of it. The draft has been a debacle to this point. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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