explain this to me

[Sperm Edwards]

7 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

Who are the four starters?  How long do they have to start for?  Idzik's 2013 draft had 6 starters and it kind of sucked.  One is a punter.  The CB remains to be seen.  The WR and S look like they will contribute but don't look to be starters.  I don't even think the LT can be 100% counted as a win yet.  

The 2016 Jets draft had four rookie starters (plus a fifth UDFA starter in Robby) when looked through this lens of counting a punter as a starter.

Looking back there isn’t one above average player drafted. But hey, look at all them rookie starters; plus remember how, after his rookie season, many assumed Burris was going to be a starting CB2 in 2017 basically because he intercepted a pass late in his rookie season. And even Hackenberg didn’t play as a rookie only because they were bringing him along slowly “the right way” to ensure he wouldn’t turn into David Carr.

 

[Darnold Schwarzenegger]

Objectively speaking. Douglas first Draft was unspectacular. But i think he did a lot better with his 2nd draft.

And in general like what he is doing. He Seems to be building from the trenches out. And putting a focus on offense. I haven't been this in tune with a gm in 20 years. Maybe Douglas isn't all that he's cracked up to be. But he is light years better than what we have had recently. Give him more time.

Atleast he has the right idea. If it doesn't work out it doesn't work out. But it's far too early to tell IMO. This isn't a Jon idzik situation where EVERYONE knew he was terrible.

[jetstream23]

14 hours ago, kmnj said:

many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player?

I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?

 

If you gave an order that Private Santiago wasn't to be touched, and your orders are always followed, then why would Private Santiago be in danger? Why would it be necessary to transfer him off the base?

 

[FidelioJet]

9 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The 2016 Jets draft had four rookie starters (plus a fifth UDFA starter in Robby) when looked through this lens of counting a punter as a starter.

Looking back there isn’t one above average player drafted. But hey, look at all them rookie starters; plus remember how, after his rookie season, many assumed Burris was going to be a starting CB2 in 2017 basically because he intercepted a pass late in his rookie season. And even Hackenberg didn’t play as a rookie only because they were bringing him along slowly “the right way” to ensure he wouldn’t turn into David Carr.

 

1. Is the thought here that in 2016 it didn't work out so it can't now?
2. That in 2016 we should have prematurely judged the draft class as being bad?
3. That we should take each draft class on its own and take our time to determine if it's good or not but see how it actually plays out?

[neckdemon]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:28 AM, kmnj said:

so joe drafted guys that didnt fit into his coaches system? why would he do that-that is worse then saying they needed time to develop

You do realize that the draft you're talking about happened before we hired Saleh.......right?

[isired]

I always assumed the "3 years" thing was for outsiders - draftniks, fans, etc. The staff sees more from a guy in one practice than we see in a year, and they have a hundred practices a year. If you watch every snap of every preseason and regular season game, you're seeing, what, like a dozen plays from a rookie who didn't immediately break out?

[Bowles Movement]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:08 AM, kmnj said:

many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player?

I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?-

the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has ,  the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. 

p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not ..

 

Just wondering if you were critical of the Quinnen Williams pick last year this time?   And he got a training camp his rookie season.

Give Douglas another year and lets see where all these kids are.

[jgb]

11 hours ago, neckdemon said:

You do realize that the draft you're talking about happened before we hired Saleh.......right?

So we have a GM who isn’t a time traveller. We are doomed.

[Jet Nut]

On 9/3/2021 at 3:53 PM, Jet Nut said:

Maybe because Saleh wasnt the coach for that draft?

 

 

13 hours ago, neckdemon said:

You do realize that the draft you're talking about happened before we hired Saleh.......right?

 

1 hour ago, jgb said:

So we have a GM who isn’t a time traveller. We are doomed.

[Claymation]

So we have a GM who isn’t a time traveller. We are doomed.

We gotta get Zach to the Future.

[BurnleyJet]

Douglas will be judged on Zach. If Wilson becomes a Star, any sh*tty draft picks will be unimportant.

Look at Belichick some of his drafts have been horrible. He had Brady so it covered many sins. I’m not saying Wilson is Brady, just a Franchise QB makes everything thing better.

If Wilson’s sucks JD will be gone in two years.

[Doggin94it]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:30 AM, shuler82 said:

You do realize he drafted these players when Gase was still the coach? If you're going to go full troll, don't make yourself look stupid. 

Look?

[Doggin94it]

Process is way more important than results, unless and until you have a long history of your process leading to garbage results. That first draft, we took very athletic high upside players in the first 3 rounds, with a focus on premium positions (LT, WR, DE) except where the value was just too good to pass up (Davis). Injuries have impacted Davis and Mims, Zuniga is a complete bust. In the fourth, we took a swing and a miss on a backup QB, drafted a guy whose upside was late-career Frank Gore for a coach who irrationally loved late-career Frank Gore, and took a developmental OL (good call) who suffered a bad and freak injury. Hall in the 5th was an excellent pick. Mann in the 6th was fine. 

This draft, we focused our early round picks on high-upside athletic players at premium positions (Moore, Zach) and built the trenches again (AVT), then took injury impacted value (Nasrilideen), scheme fit (Carter1, Sherwood) and athletic upside (Carter1 and pretty much everyone at CB) with the rest of the picks.

Long term, I think we look back at that 2020 draft (in a very unusual off-season) as hit-and-miss but not a disaster. A franchise LT, starting caliber corner, No. 2 WR and long-term punter isn't a bad haul - and yes, I think Mims ends up as a solid No. 2, though perhaps not for us, given the scheme change. And the process, which appears to prioritize (1) premium positions/trenches in the early rounds; (2) scheme fit; and (3) athleticism seems likely to end with more success than failure in the long term. But we'll see

[DetroitRed]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:08 AM, kmnj said:

many of the folks that refuse to admit Joe's first draft was poor say you cant evaluate a pick just after one year -if that is an accurate statement then why has Joe already cut some of these player?

I mean surely a GM would know that it takes a few years before you can evaluate players so why didnt Joe wait on the guys he cut?-

the reality ,which some refuse to accept even though Joe already has ,  the players were not good and all of the time in the world would not help. 

p.s I hope Joe's second draft turns out to be historically good but his first one was not ..

 

It may turn out to be bad, and every last GM ,if they last a few years will have a bad draft 

[jamesr]

On 9/4/2021 at 6:01 AM, Sperm Edwards said:

The 2016 Jets draft had four rookie starters (plus a fifth UDFA starter in Robby) when looked through this lens of counting a punter as a starter.

Looking back there isn’t one above average player drafted. But hey, look at all them rookie starters; plus remember how, after his rookie season, many assumed Burris was going to be a starting CB2 in 2017 basically because he intercepted a pass late in his rookie season. And even Hackenberg didn’t play as a rookie only because they were bringing him along slowly “the right way” to ensure he wouldn’t turn into David Carr.

 

Proof that you truly can't judge a draft after one year ... whether praising it or killing it.

Let's hope the trajectory for our 2020 class looks better this time next year than the 2016 class did after 2 years. Though it's interesting to look at all the players picked around where we got Lee that year ... Karl Joseph, Corey Coleman, Shaq Lawson, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, Paxton Lynch. Quite bereft of talent all in.

[Sperm Edwards]

32 minutes ago, jamesr said:

Proof that you truly can't judge a draft after one year ... whether praising it or killing it.

Let's hope the trajectory for our 2020 class looks better this time next year than the 2016 class did after 2 years. Though it's interesting to look at all the players picked around where we got Lee that year ... Karl Joseph, Corey Coleman, Shaq Lawson, Josh Doctson, Laquon Treadwell, Paxton Lynch. Quite bereft of talent all in.

Not that I don’t agree with you, but my post was more that one doesn’t sole judge a draft as successful based on how many initial starters there were.

Calvin Pryor was a starter for his first 2 seasons, bfd.

After week 1 of his 3rd season as starter, some were hoisting the I’m Right trophy regarding Lee, posting PFF rankings that kept them warm & snuggly for another month or two. Meanwhile after 3 NFL seasons of starting experience by age 24, he’s been just on special teams, the practice squad, or an outright unsigned FA since turning 25.

In other words, he was only starting because of the draft pick investment in him combined with the team basically having no other LBers to play in his place anyway (I mean, his rookie year we were using a 300-pound, gap-shooting DT as a LB ffs).

So drafting an early “starter” can be a great thing, but it can be a meaningless thing once context is given. It’s too early to tell if these early-starting draft picks will be worth keeping in that role once the roster isn’t so thin & the team is another year removed from tear-down mode. 

[Dcat]

On 9/3/2021 at 10:28 AM, kmnj said:

so joe drafted guys that didnt fit into his coaches system? why would he do that-that is worse then saying they needed time to develop

What in the world are you talking about?  His coach for the first draft was Adam Gase, not Saleh.   Um... that was a different head coach with a different system (if Gase had any system at all) from the current head coach, for that first draft, right?  

You seem very confused.

[Dcat]

On 9/3/2021 at 11:42 AM, Joejet said:

I would think even you should be able to figure out that the coaching staff is different this year than last year. The 2020 draft would have been with input from Gase and his staff and the 2021 draft would have been with input from Saleh and his staff.

/end thread.  OP is criticizing GM for not filling draft to fit his coach's system because of current cuts, but fails to acknowledge those picks were for a differen't coach's system.  duh

[The Crusher]

1 minute ago, Dcat said:

/end thread.  OP is criticizing GM for not filling draft to fit his coach's system because of current cuts, but fails to acknowledge those picks were for a differen't coach's system.  duh

Adams Gases system is preparing the draft picks for their next team by breaking them down like some weird boot camp. 

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

If you're gonna grade the drafts include the free agent signings too .

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