Inside the Jets’ downfall to NFL laughingstock: ‘One decision after another’

[Bugg]

9 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

F off Esiason

Neat trick for a guy who has the morning drive sports radio show to blame it on the fans and media. As if he's doing politics and cooking on the radio every weekday morning. 

Crucial missteps; again, people at Penn State were telling EVERYONE Hackenberg was a total toolbag. How does a GM not know that? Why you draft him, and then let that pick preclude taking Mahomes or Watson; mindboggling. 

[CSNY]

4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I still have a hard time believing CJ hired Gase. 
 

it was such an obviously bad choice. 

CJ he realized that he is not of a football mind and reached out to others far more versed in football and sought opinions on what makes a good team and who would be the right choice as GM to build and who to pick as Coach the team Can’t really fault him for that. But his choice was an obvious blunder along with having Coach and GM report to him and prior to that Woody and he should be and has been widely ridiculed for said choice. Let’s all hope that they finally got it right with JD& Saleh 

[jeremy2020]

Bad decisions leads to bad results. Who knew?!

It's a nice summary though. 

[SAR I]

18 minutes ago, CSNY said:

To be fair you did not or haven’t demanded 8 wins you have mandated them which by definition is an order. Now you have expectations of 8 wins which is a belief that something will happen. Big difference 

Exactly.

The New York Jets have been in an announced teardown rebuild since 2017, that makes this Year 5, and it's time for results and that means W's.  It doesn't matter that the actors have changed.  GM's and HC's come and go.  The organization gutted the roster 2017-2019, the organization added some pieces in 2020, the organization added more pieces in 2021, and it's time to see the results.  Now.

This schedule is the easiest it's been in decades.  If Maccagnan & Gase could get 7 wins with a depleted and injured roster in '19 then Douglas & Saleh can get 8 wins with a rejuvenated roster in '21.

SAR I

[munchmemory]

2 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Exactly.

The New York Jets have been in an announced teardown rebuild since 2017, that makes this Year 5, and it's time for results and that means W's.  It doesn't matter that the actors have changed.  GM's and HC's come and go.  The organization gutted the roster 2017-2019, the organization added some pieces in 2020, the organization added more pieces in 2021, and it's time to see the results.  Now.

This schedule is the easiest it's been in decades.  If Maccagnan & Gase could get 7 wins with a depleted and injured roster in '19 then Douglas & Saleh can get 8 wins with a rejuvenated roster in '21.

SAR I

Completely agree that this franchise has been in "teardown"/rebuild mode for as long as I remember.   I said it a couple of weeks ago that JD will start to hear some rumblings if we put up another 11+ loss season.  

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, munchmemory said:

Completely agree that this franchise has been in "teardown"/rebuild mode for as long as I remember.   I said it a couple of weeks ago that JD will start to hear some rumblings if we put up another 11+ loss season.  

We're going to know pretty soon.  The verdict will be in by Thanksgiving.

Joe Douglas is already here 3 seasons, he meddled poorly in 2019, he blew it entirely in 2020, and while 2021 looks strong on paper, let's see it on the field.  The fact that the media and fans have aligned him with the fresh start of Robert Saleh is amusing, though.  Not fooling me.

SAR I

[RutgersJetFan]

3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

The verdict will be in by Thanksgiving.

They have 7 games left after Thanksgiving. 

[CSNY]

7 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Exactly.

The New York Jets have been in an announced teardown rebuild since 2017, that makes this Year 5, and it's time for results and that means W's.  It doesn't matter that the actors have changed.  GM's and HC's come and go.  The organization gutted the roster 2017-2019, the organization added some pieces in 2020, the organization added more pieces in 2021, and it's time to see the results.  Now.

This schedule is the easiest it's been in decades.  If Maccagnan & Gase could get 7 wins with a depleted and injured roster in '19 then Douglas & Saleh can get 8 wins with a rejuvenated roster in '21.

SAR I

Come on Sar give up the narrative of the five year argument JD has been here for 27 months give the guy a break. And also the season they went 7-9 they were tied for 31 easiest schedule and this year the strength of schedule is rated at 21 which makes it a harder schedule based on last year’s record of opponents. No one knows how hard schedule is at this time since games have yet to be played 

[munchmemory]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

We're going to know pretty soon.  The verdict will be in by Thanksgiving.

Joe Douglas is already here 3 seasons, he meddled poorly in 2019, he blew it entirely in 2020, and while 2021 looks strong on paper, let's see it on the field.  The fact that the media and fans have aligned him with the fresh start of Robert Saleh is amusing, though.  Not fooling me.

SAR I

Honestly, after all the changes in HCs and GMs the last few decades, I'm numb.   It's like we tried to find every underperforming dope.  I just gets daunting watching double digit losses.  

JD better hope Zack clicks.  But if he winds up being another JAG-minus INT machine?  Not gonna be pretty.  But of course we'll hear the "next year crew", who will proclaim that JD just needs another draft to "build" and/or "find more weapons".  Again, numbing.

[Jetluv58]

9 minutes ago, munchmemory said:

Completely agree that this franchise has been in "teardown"/rebuild mode for as long as I remember.   I said it a couple of weeks ago that JD will start to hear some rumblings if we put up another 11+ loss season.  

He won’t be going anywhere though, even if they lose a lot. 

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, RutgersJetFan said:

They have 7 games left after Thanksgiving. 

Point is, by the midway point of the season we're going to have a pretty good read on his rebuilds of QB, OL, RB, WR, and K and how negligent he may or may not have been at CB.

Not to mention, we keep taking Saleh for granted, like he's going to make the right decisions, motivate properly, handle the clock properly, etc.  That's on Douglas too.

SAR I

[munchmemory]

Just now, Jetluv58 said:

He won’t be going anywhere though, even if they lose a lot. 

Sadly, I agree.  This franchise is aces at retaining folks we should have 86'd years earlier.

[SAR I]

11 minutes ago, CSNY said:

Come on Sar give up the narrative of the five year argument JD has been here for 27 months give the guy a break.

Respectfully, it's you that has to give up the narrative that every time the Johnson's flip the GM/HC that they get a mulligan for everything that preceded it.

Joe Douglas got a better GM situation than anyone gives credit for-  he was hired earlier than any GM in NFL history giving him an unprecedented 10 months to prepare for his first draft where most GM's get 2.  And he inherited a teardown-in-progress where the prior GM was already shedding fat salaries and accumulating picks and cap room.  And he inherited a franchise quarterback prospect that the entire NFL valued.

Joe Douglas was awful in 2020, about as bad as any GM could ever be.  And fans make excuses for the guy like he needed to not surround Darnold with an OL or WR's, like he needed to trade pro bowl defenders away, like he needed to rip us down to the level of an expansion team without the benefit of an expansion draft.

And I call BS.  He took the easiest head start any GM ever got and f-cked up in 2019 and 2020, plain and simple.  I like what 2021 looks like on paper.  It's time for results.  You are going way, way too easy on Joe Douglas.  All the evidence to date says he's in over his head.  And you're going way too easy on the Johnson's.  Doesn't matter that the actors have changed; the rebuild shouldn't be taking this long.

SAR I

[SAR I]

12 minutes ago, CSNY said:

And also the season they went 7-9 they were tied for 31 easiest schedule and this year the strength of schedule is rated at 21 which makes it a harder schedule based on last year’s record of opponents. No one knows how hard schedule is at this time since games have yet to be played 

SOS is taking into account the Saints having Drew Brees last year, and as for this year we only face 2 quarterbacks that anyone would say are near elite.  And we have a bonus 9th home game.  And we have a neutral site game.  And we face 3 Florida teams in December.  And the Bills are going to rest all their starters, probably the Bucs too, and those are our two hardest games.

And, most importantly, the 2019 team was destroyed by unprecedented injuries, take a look at the roster in those games, we were starting 3rd and 4th stringers all over the place.  The 2021 team, if it stays healthy, will blow away anything we put on the field in 2019.

SAR I

[Irish Jet]

People are still taking SAR seriously?

[#27TheDominator]

How do you complain about Jed Hughes having the owner's ear?  The ******* guy was a consultant hired to pick the GM.  He is pretty good at his job.  The problem comes when you handcuff him with a bunch of conditions, like keeping Rex, that limited your talent pool.

I actually like Rex and Tannenbaum, but c'mon:

Force Rex on Idzik.  Force Williams on Gase. This sh*t works out great.  If there is one thing great minds want it is to be told who they have to work with. Nothing like some spies on the team!

[#27TheDominator]

27 months = 3 years.  He is like the opposite of my wife and kids.  It was "only $600."  Check the receipt and it was $699.99.  

[JustInFudge]

You can point to ownership and GM's and coaching and whatever, it's about talent and the Jets have none and havent had any for 10 years.  That's why the team sucks.  Bottom 5 roster in terms of talent since they hired Idzick.  Other teams have had bad GM's and bad coaches, none of them as talent ridden as the NY Jets which is why the recovery has been faster in some cases.  This team?  With the way JD adds talent?  Still probably another 2-3 years from being adequate enough to compete with the real teams.

 

[Irish Jet]

3 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Force Williams on Gase. 

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

great minds 

 

[ZachEY]

3 hours ago, Anthony Jet said:

Not saying either we’re particularly good at there job. But Idzik and Bowles get to much blame on this site. 
 

Idzik had a good plan, he just couldn’t execute it and his drafts were bad (unfortunately the infamous Idzik 12 was a bad draft in general but he didn’t help himself at all)

 

Bowles wasn’t a good head coach, but he wasn’t terrible. I definitely can see him getting another shot. 
 

But like you said compared to the people hired to replace them, they were Vince Lombardi and Ozzie Newsone 

The Idzik 12 is the most overblown thing on this site.  The multiple picks started in the 4th round.  Terrible draft, yes, but terrible overall class.  It wasn't wrong for Idzik to be fired, but he's absolutely not the reason we're in the position we're in today.

[doitny]

10 hours ago, SAR I said:

If Joe Douglas has hit it big on this year‘s draft and free agency class you may be right.  If not, he’s on a Maccagnan track as an awful player-picker.  

SAR I

i agree. this is a big year for JD.

we got i think like 12 rookies on the team. 7 should get alot of playing time. so this should show us what kind of drafter he is.

[Lith]

53 minutes ago, Bugg said:

Neat trick for a guy who has the morning drive sports radio show to blame it on the fans and media. As if he's doing politics and cooking on the radio every weekday morning. 

Crucial missteps; again, people at Penn State were telling EVERYONE Hackenberg was a total toolbag. How does a GM not know that? Why you draft him, and then let that pick preclude taking Mahomes or Watson; mindboggling. 

I didn't take it as Boomer blaming the fans.  If ownership listens to the fanbase and makes moves based on pressure brought by the fans, then the issue is with ownership.  Not the fans.

[Anthony Jet]

3 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

The Idzik 12 is the most overblown thing on this site.  The multiple picks started in the 4th round.  Terrible draft, yes, but terrible overall class.  It wasn't wrong for Idzik to be fired, but he's absolutely not the reason we're in the position we're in today.

Completely agree. 
 

McCagnen (sp?) on the other hand was possibly the single worst employee this jet franchise ever had and that is saying a lot 

[doitny]

1 hour ago, LIJetsFan said:

JD syncs with is HC, drafting players he thinks fit the HC's scheme.  So, keep in mind that JD was drafting for Gase in 2020.  Enough said.  As one example, I'm thinking Morgan fit Gases' scheme, et.al.    

i think Morgan was drafted cause he knew Sam wasn't good enough. he figured when Sam struggles he could give Morgan a chance. problem was that Morgan was too raw and wasn't ready to play.

[Biggs]

37 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Respectfully, it's you that has to give up the narrative that every time the Johnson's flip the GM/HC that they get a mulligan for everything that preceded it.

Joe Douglas got a better GM situation than anyone gives credit for-  he was hired earlier than any GM in NFL history giving him an unprecedented 10 months to prepare for his first draft where most GM's get 2.  And he inherited a teardown-in-progress where the prior GM was already shedding fat salaries and accumulating picks and cap room.  And he inherited a franchise quarterback prospect that the entire NFL valued.

Joe Douglas was awful in 2020, about as bad as any GM could ever be.  And fans make excuses for the guy like he needed to not surround Darnold with an OL or WR's, like he needed to trade pro bowl defenders away, like he needed to rip us down to the level of an expansion team without the benefit of an expansion draft.

And I call BS.  He took the easiest head start any GM ever got and f-cked up in 2019 and 2020, plain and simple.  I like what 2021 looks like on paper.  It's time for results.  You are going way, way too easy on Joe Douglas.  All the evidence to date says he's in over his head.  And you're going way too easy on the Johnson's.  Doesn't matter that the actors have changed; the rebuild shouldn't be taking this long.

SAR I

I'm not a Douglas ball washer.  I'm suspect because Gase essentially hired him.  However last year we had no TC or Pre-season.  If Becton turns out to be a solid LT for 10 years that's a home run.   Mims and Davis might be busts but they might develop.   Morgan was a bust pick.  Zuniga should have been cut outright and not retained on the practice squad.  Bryce Hall, Perine are on the team.  They might be nothing more than depth, hard to know yet.  Mann doesn't look like Ray Guy but if he starts for 10 years and does his job, can't complain.  This years draft might be a home run.  TBD...

Douglas inherited a bad roster with a top 3 pick QB who wasn't developing.  He inherited a roster with two A players who both were looking for big pay days and a decent not great WR looking for a big payday.   He turned one of those players into a draft haul.  He got reasonable value for a good player in a contract year and didn't overpay a good not great WR in a league where drafted WR were making an impact in year 1 and 2 at a reasonable cost.  

What Joe Douglas got was a bad roster with a bad HC and a DC who was completely out of control.  He's had a few hits and a few errors.  It looks like he hired a HC with potential to be around a long time.  If Saleh turns out to be a 10 year Jets HC and attracts good coaches going forward that's another home run.  Saleh had choices and came here in large part because of Douglas.  

He hasn't ****ed up anything yet.  When he was staring at a LT he took him.   When he was staring at a QB he took him.  In 2 years he's got a young LT, young LG and QB.  He may have drafted an elite WR in this years draft.  Mims may develop although he's off to a terrible start.  I think you have to wait this out at least another year or two.

The most important decisions a GM makes are the HC the QB and the LT.  We don't know yet but it looks like he may have hit a 3 run homer.

[doitny]

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Where is this from? Who is it by?

Brain Costello of the NY Post

[Anthony Jet]

3 hours ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Where is this from? Who is it by?

It was in the ny post a couple days ago 

[Better2bgreenthanblue]

You cant blame that nerd Woodie, he's just trying to get the other kids to like him! He reminds me of the guy who throws a catered party that no one attends while another poor slob is is inundated with friends because he tapped a keg and opened some bags of chips and dip. Woodie needs to stop trying so hard. 

[LIJetsFan]

2 minutes ago, doitny said:

i think Morgan was drafted cause he knew Sam wasn't good enough. he figured when Sam struggles he could give Morgan a chance. problem was that Morgan was too raw and wasn't ready to play.

If we can take JD at his word which I think we can, he said in a video I watch this preseason that even after they decided to draft Zack he planned on keeping Sam unless someone made him an offer her couldn't refuse.  

[CSNY]

40 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Respectfully, it's you that has to give up the narrative that every time the Johnson's flip the GM/HC that they get a mulligan for everything that preceded it.

Joe Douglas got a better GM situation than anyone gives credit for-  he was hired earlier than any GM in NFL history giving him an unprecedented 10 months to prepare for his first draft where most GM's get 2.  And he inherited a teardown-in-progress where the prior GM was already shedding fat salaries and accumulating picks and cap room.  And he inherited a franchise quarterback prospect that the entire NFL valued.

Joe Douglas was awful in 2020, about as bad as any GM could ever be.  And fans make excuses for the guy like he needed to not surround Darnold with an OL or WR's, like he needed to trade pro bowl defenders away, like he needed to rip us down to the level of an expansion team without the benefit of an expansion draft.

And I call BS.  He took the easiest head start any GM ever got and f-cked up in 2019 and 2020, plain and simple.  I like what 2021 looks like on paper.  It's time for results.  You are going way, way too easy on Joe Douglas.  All the evidence to date says he's in over his head.  And you're going way too easy on the Johnson's.  Doesn't matter that the actors have changed; the rebuild shouldn't be taking this long.

SAR I

First paragraph the claim is any moves made by previous administration is the fault of JD and should be responsible which is not a good argument 

Second paragraph JD 10 months head start as opposed to other GM only having two. GM work 12 months a year sending scouts to games going to combines ( which he and all the rest of teams were unable to do but they had there staffs in place so they are able to fall back on that information that they already had) scouring free agency and waiver wire so JD had 10 months versus 12 to prepare 

Third paragraph shedding salaries I give you Trumaine Johnson Leveon Bell wasted money and Mosley who the jury is still out on. Trading pro bowl players who will need to be given higher salaries on a less than mediocre team makes no sense as you will be stuck in mediocrity as were are for quite some time 

Fourth paragraph big head start   team had no o line no running backs no receivers with the exception of Anderson no corners basically team was berift of talent

The vision was and is to build a team for sustainable success and a complete rebuild was needed as the moves made by previous administration were just splashy signings to make it look like they were doing something made to appease fans 

With this said I want results as much as all of us just willing to wait this year but next year definitely needs to see tangible progress and hope that this combination of JD and RSwork out. If not will be calling for their heads as well 

[doitny]

46 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Point is, by the midway point of the season we're going to have a pretty good read on his rebuilds of QB, OL, RB, WR, and K and how negligent he may or may not have been at CB.

Not to mention, we keep taking Saleh for granted, like he's going to make the right decisions, motivate properly, handle the clock properly, etc.  That's on Douglas too.

SAR I

i dont know about that.

alot of rookies here, they might need more than half a season before we can really say we got a good read on them.

remember that 7 win season you keep bringing up? didnt we start out like 1-7 then finish 6-2.

and how are Salehs mistakes on JD? all Rookies make mistakes. even HC

[ZachEY]

11 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

If we can take JD at his word which I think we can, he said in a video I watch this preseason that even after they decided to draft Zack he planned on keeping Sam unless someone made him an offer her couldn't refuse.  

Hard to argue that a future 2 is an offer anyone couldn't refuse.

Hard to take the "Our plan is to make Jamal Adams a Jet for life" guy at his word.

[SAR I]

17 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I'm not a Douglas ball washer.  I'm suspect because Gase essentially hired him.  However last year we had no TC or Pre-season.  If Becton turns out to be a solid LT for 10 years that's a home run.   Mims and Davis might be busts but they might develop.   Morgan was a bust pick.  Zuniga should have been cut outright and not retained on the practice squad.  Bryce Hall, Perine are on the team.  They might be nothing more than depth, hard to know yet.  Mann doesn't look like Ray Guy but if he starts for 10 years and does his job, can't complain.  This years draft might be a home run.  TBD...

Douglas inherited a bad roster with a top 3 pick QB who wasn't developing.  He inherited a roster with two A players who both were looking for big pay days and a decent not great WR looking for a big payday.   He turned one of those players into a draft haul.  He got reasonable value for a good player in a contract year and didn't overpay a good not great WR in a league where drafted WR were making an impact in year 1 and 2 at a reasonable cost.  

What Joe Douglas got was a bad roster with a bad HC and a DC who was completely out of control.  He's had a few hits and a few errors.  It looks like he hired a HC with potential to be around a long time.  If Saleh turns out to be a 10 year Jets HC and attracts good coaches going forward that's another home run.  Saleh had choices and came here in large part because of Douglas.  

He hasn't ****ed up anything yet.  When he was staring at a LT he took him.   When he was staring at a QB he took him.  In 2 years he's got a young LT, young LG and QB.  He may have drafted an elite WR in this years draft.  Mims may develop although he's off to a terrible start.  I think you have to wait this out at least another year or two.

The most important decisions a GM makes are the HC the QB and the LT.  We don't know yet but it looks like he may have hit a 3 run homer.

I agree with a lot in this post, but I'll leave you with two things:

1.  My mom would have taken one of the top LT's and one of the top QB's in the last two drafts.  Becton and Wilson aren't exactly picks that get Joe Douglas a parade, it's not like he found Brady in the sixth round here.

2.  A GM is judged not by the no-brainer picks in Rounds 1 and 2 but by unearthing the diamonds in the rough in Rounds 3-7 and so far we've seen nothing from Joe Douglas to lead us to believe he's a great treasure-hunter.  Even his UFA hauls are weak.

SAR I

[doitny]

10 minutes ago, LIJetsFan said:

If we can take JD at his word which I think we can, he said in a video I watch this preseason that even after they decided to draft Zack he planned on keeping Sam unless someone made him an offer her couldn't refuse.  

have you ever seen anyone badmouth a guy they just got rid of? 

and i think you forgot his press conference after trading Sam. he said he thought about keeping him BUT thought against it as it would bring on controversy and he didn't think it would be fair to put Zach thru that.

[Biggs]

10 minutes ago, CSNY said:

First paragraph the claim is any moves made by previous administration is the fault of JD and should be responsible which is not a good argument 

Second paragraph JD 10 months head start as opposed to other GM only having two. GM work 12 months a year sending scouts to games going to combines ( which he and all the rest of teams were unable to do but they had there staffs in place so they are able to fall back on that information that they already had) scouring free agency and waiver wire so JD had 10 months versus 12 to prepare 

Third paragraph shedding salaries I give you Trumaine Johnson Leveon Bell wasted money and Mosley who the jury is still out on. Trading pro bowl players who will need to be given higher salaries on a less than mediocre team makes no sense as you will be stuck in mediocrity as were are for quite some time 

Fourth paragraph big head start   team had no o line no running backs no receivers with the exception of Anderson no corners basically team was berift of talent

The vision was and is to build a team for sustainable success and a complete rebuild was needed as the moves made by previous administration were just splashy signings to make it look like they were doing something made to appease fans 

With this said I want results as much as all of us just willing to wait this year but next year definitely needs to see tangible progress and hope that this combination of JD and RSwork out. If not will be calling for their heads as well 

It's hard to argue the team wouldn't be better with both Robbie and Williams signed to long term deals at there current age.  Mostly agree with you and really had no issue not giving Robbie a big deal.  Looks like we gave away Williams unless he turns into a dog after signing the contract  which is highly likely.