Inside the Jets’ downfall to NFL laughingstock: ‘One decision after another’

[chirorob]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

It's interesting to hear more about how the coach / GM relationships were so bad ... gives you more of a picture that it wasn't all just down to bad drafting and poor coaching (which we're often led to believe).

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
 

Firing T, and keeping Rex started years of bad relationships.

You bring in a GM, you let him pick his coach.   You let the coach pick his staff.   It just doesn't work otherwise.

[ZachEY]

55 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I am kind of with JiF here.  It isn't good draft/bad draft.  It was  draft super deep at WR and we walked away with Amaro, Evans and a fidget returner that had "issues."  

Amaro with Adams, Robinson, Latimer (the one bad choice) and Landry on the board?  Yikes.  Think of the talent we could have spoiled.

Maybe Idzik thought deep meant 4 rounds of 1st round talent instead of 2, but it's still on him.  Also, the "necessity" of drafting McDougle stemmed from his tanking the FA CB market and (as you point out) his whiff on Millner the year prior.. 

This is not what people talk about when they talk about the Idzik 12, however.

[#27TheDominator]

18 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

This is not what people talk about when they talk about the Idzik 12, however.

Honest question, what do they talk about?  Most of the time I hear it mentioned as horrible, but not as bad as Maccagnan.  Pretty sure it was worse, but he also seemed to be tanking to dump Rex.

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, CSNY said:

Joe Douglas hired June 7 2019 todays date September 9 2021 equals 2 years 3 months 2 days. 3 years equals 36 months. Joe Douglas has not been here a total of three years 

GM's jobs are done by September.

This is Joe Douglas' 3rd September.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  

Notable Joe Douglas Accomplishments in 2019:

Signed Ryan Kalil.  Wasted $8M dollars.

Lost Keleche Osemele.  Denied him his right to surgery.  Started for AFC Champion KC Chiefs.

Traded Leonard Williams.  Made Pro Bowl as a NY Giant.

Could not retain Chandler Catanzaro.

Signed Karre Vedvik.  

Signed Taylor Bertelet.

Signed Sam Ficken.

Signed David Fales.

Signed Ryan Griffin to contract extension.

Named Rex Hogan assistant GM, Chad Alexander as director of player personnel, Phil Savage as senior football adviser and Chris Nolan as a college scout. Promoted Greg Nejmeh to director of pro personnel, Dan Zbojovsky to director of personnel operations and Kevin Murphy to assistant director of pro scouting.  The group that would go on to blow the 2020 draft and 2020 free agency period leading us to a disasterous 2-14 season.

SAR I

[Albaniajet]

33 minutes ago, chirorob said:

Firing T, and keeping Rex started years of bad relationships.

You bring in a GM, you let him pick his coach.   You let the coach pick his staff.   It just doesn't work otherwise.

Really overrated soundbyte I heard about this in the media

 

First off, we went 8-8 the first year Idzik was here.  Not good. Not bad either and actually an improvement over the previous season, The second season it fell apart because Woody and Idzik refused to spend money at both the Cb and Wr positions despite $30+ million under the cap and players being available 

[doitny]

1 minute ago, #27TheDominator said:

Honest question, what do they talk about?  Most of the time I hear it mentioned as horrible, but not as bad as Maccagnan.  Pretty sure it was worse, but he also seemed to be tanking to dump Rex.

i don't think it was to dump Rex, they just had different timelines.

Rexs first 3 years were 2nd place finishes all at or above 500. he has that one 6-10 year than gets us back to 8-8. he wants Idzik to spend the money to get us back in the playoff which we have seen from 2009,2010 anything can happen. but Idzik wanted to start over. he had a ton of money but didn't spend it.

kinda like JD did his first year. he didn't sign big name or contract FAs. didn't give Adams and Leo big contracts. cause he knew he was ripping it down.

[Albaniajet]

3 hours ago, kevinc855 said:

It has arguably been the worst decade in Jets history...

I don't think or see us doing worse in the 20's. 

Hoping to turn it around.

 

90’s was just as bad until Parcells got here

 

It was a similar dynamic with this franchise.  Meddling owner who didn’t have a football background.  Goofy decision making.

 

Although in his defense Hess was smarter than Woody

[SAR I]

1 hour ago, doitny said:

your posts are exactly what Saleh means when he talks about rushing things. you want that small spurt of success. but way too often that turns into long failure. 

Wrong.  Wrong.  Wrong.

I've been preaching the "long deep rebuild" since it was sold to me by Christopher Johnson in 2017, since "Suck For Sam", since Sam's rookie year, and on and on.

I am not asking the Jets to load up on free agents and eke out 9 wins and a wildcard blowout.  I am asking the organization that started the teardown 5 years ago to show me some life instead of selling me over and over again on a bright new day because they fired the last guy they hired.  Its time for the hamster wheel to stop.  It's time for the young players that we brought in here since 2017 to start winning games.  That is a fair expectation.

Any way you want to slice it, the team we are putting on the field in Carolina on Sunday is eons better than the one we put on the field against Pittsburgh, Oakland, Miami, Giants, and Washington in 2019 and we beat those teams soundly. 

SAR I

[Albaniajet]

14 hours ago, David Harris said:

It's tough absolutely hating the owner of the team you devote so much time to.

And I mean Woody Johnson, he is an absolute moron.  Not just a terrible businessman but an actual low IQ silver spoon pretentious effete low testosterone imbecile.

 

Hopefully now him and his brother finally get out of the way. Go Jets.

The last 10 years the Johnson Bros have run this organization into the toilet

[doitny]

9 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

90’s was just as bad until Parcells got here

 

It was a similar dynamic with this franchise.  Meddling owner who didn’t have a football background.  Goofy decision making.

 

Although in his defense Hess was smarter than Woody

you really think Leon Hess was a meddling owner? i heard he never interfered.

[Paradis]

lol, what is this - the Housewives of JN?

Some of you find the most inane reasons to argue. The jets have failed at every level (leadership/coaching/drafting) for a decade. Nothing no one here doesn't already know... Yet some of you labor over ways to pin it on each other. Who cares? We all lived it and it sucked....

Grab a burger. Get a hooker, whatever - just move on. 

[Albaniajet]

20 minutes ago, doitny said:

i don't think it was to dump Rex, they just had different timelines.

Rexs first 3 years were 2nd place finishes all at or above 500. he has that one 6-10 year than gets us back to 8-8. he wants Idzik to spend the money to get us back in the playoff which we have seen from 2009,2010 anything can happen. but Idzik wanted to start over. he had a ton of money but didn't spend it.

kinda like JD did his first year. he didn't sign big name or contract FAs. didn't give Adams and Leo big contracts. cause he knew he was ripping it down.

Rex wanted to sign Revis in 2014.  Woody was still mad at Revis about contract negotiations falling apart a couple years earlier

 

That’s why it was such a big deal when at Macagnan’s press conference in January 2015 Woody said publicly he wanted Revis back 

 

[Albaniajet]

11 minutes ago, doitny said:

you really think Leon Hess was a meddling owner? i heard he never interfered.

He fired the coach on the plane after a playoff loss.  Fired Carroll after one season when he went 5-11 with a mediocre at best roster then replaced him with his buddy Kotite who even then was a known dud

[kevinc855]

22 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

90’s was just as bad until Parcells got here

 

It was a similar dynamic with this franchise.  Meddling owner who didn’t have a football background.  Goofy decision making.

 

Although in his defense Hess was smarter than Woody

91 season went to wildcard

98 season went to AFC Championship

Jets missed playoffs 2011 season and 2018 season and every in between.

Agreed we weren't necessarily good in the 90s but the "10s" take the cake on being worse. 

[#27TheDominator]

28 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

90’s was just as bad until Parcells got here

 

It was a similar dynamic with this franchise.  Meddling owner who didn’t have a football background.  Goofy decision making.

 

Although in his defense Hess was smarter than Woody

Just as bad?  They were the worst team in football two years in a row.  They have never actually been the worst except for the early portion of last season.

[jeremy2020]

Related: Woody happy Jets are laughingstock because it gets attention

https://www.nfl.com/news/jets-owner-woody-johnson-weighs-in-on-ted-lasso-dig-robert-saleh-zach-wilson-mor

[Albaniajet]

2 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

91 season went to wildcard

98 season went to AFC Championship

Jets missed playoffs 2011 season and 2018 season and every in between.

Agreed we weren't necessarily good in the 90s but the "10s" take the cake on being worse. 

Keywords: “until Parcells got here”

 

 

First 6 years of the 90’s sucked and was topped with us going 4-28 last 2 seasons

[CSNY]

38 minutes ago, SAR I said:

GM's jobs are done by September.

This is Joe Douglas' 3rd September.

SAR I

And drafts and Free agency are in April Douglas hired in June Since season starts in September so kinda blows up the previous argument that JD had a head start and ends with the Super Bowl what you are saying is GM’s only work 7 months out of the year. That’s a different take on trying to spin the argument that Douglas has been here three years which he hasn’t 

Edited September 9, 2021 by CSNY

[shuler82]

39 minutes ago, SAR I said:

GM's jobs are done by September.

This is Joe Douglas' 3rd September.

-  -  -  -  -  -  -  

Notable Joe Douglas Accomplishments in 2019:

Signed Ryan Kalil.  Wasted $8M dollars.

Lost Keleche Osemele.  Denied him his right to surgery.  Started for AFC Champion KC Chiefs.

Traded Leonard Williams.  Made Pro Bowl as a NY Giant.

Could not retain Chandler Catanzaro.

Signed Karre Vedvik.  

Signed Taylor Bertelet.

Signed Sam Ficken.

Signed David Fales.

Signed Ryan Griffin to contract extension.

Named Rex Hogan assistant GM, Chad Alexander as director of player personnel, Phil Savage as senior football adviser and Chris Nolan as a college scout. Promoted Greg Nejmeh to director of pro personnel, Dan Zbojovsky to director of personnel operations and Kevin Murphy to assistant director of pro scouting.  The group that would go on to blow the 2020 draft and 2020 free agency period leading us to a disasterous 2-14 season.

SAR I

Some liquid gold right here

[Albaniajet]

4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Just as bad?  They were the worst team in football two years in a row.  They have never actually been the worst except for the early portion of last season.

Crazy thing is the 1996 team had a worse record than any of the garbage teams we have been forced to watch last 10 years but the talent on that roster was better than a bunch of rosters we have had recently

 

Keyshawn, Murrell, Chrebet on offense. Lewis, Jones, Green, Glenn, Hugh Douglas on D

[#27TheDominator]

17 minutes ago, Paradis said:

lol, what is this - the Housewives of JN?

Some of you find the most inane reasons to argue. The jets have failed at every level (leadership/coaching/drafting) for a decade. Nothing no one here doesn't already know... Yet some of you labor over ways to pin it on each other. Who cares? We all lived it and it sucked....

Grab a burger. Get a hooker, whatever - just move on. 

I was waiting for you!

<waiting for L&B>

[CSNY]

25 minutes ago, Paradis said:

lol, what is this - the Housewives of JN?

Some of you find the most inane reasons to argue. The jets have failed at every level (leadership/coaching/drafting) for a decade. Nothing no one here doesn't already know... Yet some of you labor over ways to pin it on each other. Who cares? We all lived it and it sucked....

Grab a burger. Get a hooker, whatever - just move on. 

Paradis. You’re right   I am out 

[maury77]

15 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

The Jets r in the best position in the league for a rebuilding team.  The future has never been brighter.

Thank you Joe Douglas!  Thank you!!

LMAO, based on what? 

[maury77]

5 hours ago, SAR I said:

Respectfully, it's you that has to give up the narrative that every time the Johnson's flip the GM/HC that they get a mulligan for everything that preceded it.

Joe Douglas got a better GM situation than anyone gives credit for-  he was hired earlier than any GM in NFL history giving him an unprecedented 10 months to prepare for his first draft where most GM's get 2.  And he inherited a teardown-in-progress where the prior GM was already shedding fat salaries and accumulating picks and cap room.  And he inherited a franchise quarterback prospect that the entire NFL valued.

Joe Douglas was awful in 2020, about as bad as any GM could ever be.  And fans make excuses for the guy like he needed to not surround Darnold with an OL or WR's, like he needed to trade pro bowl defenders away, like he needed to rip us down to the level of an expansion team without the benefit of an expansion draft.

And I call BS.  He took the easiest head start any GM ever got and f-cked up in 2019 and 2020, plain and simple.  I like what 2021 looks like on paper.  It's time for results.  You are going way, way too easy on Joe Douglas.  All the evidence to date says he's in over his head.  And you're going way too easy on the Johnson's.  Doesn't matter that the actors have changed; the rebuild shouldn't be taking this long.

SAR I

I cannot believe it has come to this, but I have to agree with SAR. So many of you give assume things are going to go well this year, but it has been a long time since it has. And regardless of how many of you try to spin it, going into the season without a veteran QB to backup a rookie QB or without any veteran CBs is grossly negligent. If Wilson goes down with an injury (wouldn't be his first injury) and misses a significant period of time, Jets are going to be looking at 2-3 wins again. Jets have arguably the worst QB room in the league. 

[maury77]

46 minutes ago, Paradis said:

lol, what is this - the Housewives of JN?

Some of you find the most inane reasons to argue. The jets have failed at every level (leadership/coaching/drafting) for a decade. Nothing no one here doesn't already know... Yet some of you labor over ways to pin it on each other. Who cares? We all lived it and it sucked....

Grab a burger. Get a hooker, whatever - just move on. 

Cool, where are we meeting up?

[ZachEY]

1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said:

Honest question, what do they talk about?  Most of the time I hear it mentioned as horrible, but not as bad as Maccagnan.  Pretty sure it was worse, but he also seemed to be tanking to dump Rex.

I feel like it's mentioned in the all time Jets blunders.  I don't think it's close.  And, many have stated, until perhaps very recently, that Idzik was worse than Mac.

[chirorob]

5 minutes ago, maury77 said:

I cannot believe it has come to this, but I have to agree with SAR. So many of you give assume things are going to go well this year, but it has been a long time since it has. And regardless of how many of you try to spin it, going into the season without a veteran QB to backup a rookie QB or without any veteran CBs is grossly negligent. If Wilson goes down with an injury (wouldn't be his first injury) and misses a significant period of time, Jets are going to be looking at 2-3 wins again. Jets have arguably the worst QB room in the league. 

I like most of what JD had done.

There is no reason not to have an actual backup QB.

[Albaniajet]

1 minute ago, TeddEY said:

I feel like it's mentioned in the all time Jets blunders.  I don't think it's close.  And, many have stated, until perhaps very recently, that Idzik was worse than Mac.

Mac was just as bad if not worse than Idzik.  He just presented himself much better 

[munchmemory]

3 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

Mac was just as bad if not worse than Idzik.  He just presented himself much better 

[#27TheDominator]

7 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I feel like it's mentioned in the all time Jets blunders.  I don't think it's close.  And, many have stated, until perhaps very recently, that Idzik was worse than Mac.

Ah.  I see.  You meant in terms of degree of blunder rather than specifics.  I thought there was some narrative of the Idzik 12 that I wasn't aware.  

[doitny]

10 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Wrong.  Wrong.  Wrong.

I've been preaching the "long deep rebuild" since it was sold to me by Christopher Johnson in 2017, since "Suck For Sam", since Sam's rookie year, and on and on.

I am not asking the Jets to load up on free agents and eke out 9 wins and a wildcard blowout.  I am asking the organization that started the teardown 5 years ago to show me some life instead of selling me over and over again on a bright new day because they fired the last guy they hired.  Its time for the hamster wheel to stop.  It's time for the young players that we brought in here since 2017 to start winning games.  That is a fair expectation.

Any way you want to slice it, the team we are putting on the field in Carolina on Sunday is eons better than the one we put on the field against Pittsburgh, Oakland, Miami, Giants, and Washington in 2019 and we beat those teams soundly. 

SAR I

2017? according to your thinking didn't Idzik started the teardown in 2014? or do you need a new QB to start a rebuild?

your not the only guy here who is sick and tired of the hamster wheel. but your not being realistic. every GM starts over. the Mac rebuild is over. not all rebuilds add up to success otherwise Mac would still be here. 

rookie HC...QB....LG....2 LBs....1CB... thats 5 rookies starting plus the slot CB. another 6 will see time. there are going to be mistakes.

i think your one year too early. next year should be the 8 wins and the playoffs the next. very few rookie QBs get anywhere close to 8 wins. 

so Pittsburgh, Oakland, Miami, and Washington aren't better than they were in 2019? time didn't stop for them. 

the players we brought in since 2017? there is only a few left.  Maye, QW, Crowder...Griffin ..did TE Brown make the team? cause that's it. after that all the other players on the roster are from last year and this. 

92.45% of the roster got here in 2020 and this year. but the rebuild according to you started in 2017. 

regardless of what Woody told you in 2017 to " Suck for Sam " that rebuild ended. 

nobody here wants to lose. but you cant say you don't care about who the HC or GM is now, you were told a rebuild started in 2017 and its 4 years now and you want results. things changed. when 92% of the roster changes in 2 years that's call a new rebuild.

 

[#27TheDominator]

6 minutes ago, Albaniajet said:

Mac was just as bad if not worse than Idzik.  He just presented himself much better 

A bunch of people gave up on him completely after he imploded at that presser.  I don't know that matters.  I remember watching Belichick resign from the Jets and thinking that he was going to end up in an assisted living facility.  He seems to have landed on his feet.  

[SAR I]

44 minutes ago, CSNY said:

And drafts and Free agency are in April Douglas hired in June Since season starts in September so kinda blows up the previous argument that JD had a head start and ends with the Super Bowl what you are saying is GM’s only work 7 months out of the year. That’s a different take on trying to spin the argument that Douglas has been here three years which he hasn’t 

You're making me dizzy.  Here, in simple terms:

2019 June - Joe Douglas Hired

2019 Summer - Joe Douglas meddled significantly with existing players and free agents.

2020 March - Joe Douglas first free agency period.  He has been the Jets GM for 10 months at that point.

2020 March - Joe Douglas blows free agency period.

2020 April - Joe Douglas first draft.  He has been the Jets GM for 11 months at that point.

2020 April - Joe Douglas blows first draft.

SAR I

 

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, doitny said:

2017? according to your thinking didn't Idzik started the teardown in 2014? or do you need a new QB to start a rebuild?

your not the only guy here who is sick and tired of the hamster wheel. but your not being realistic. every GM starts over. the Mac rebuild is over. not all rebuilds add up to success otherwise Mac would still be here. 

rookie HC...QB....LG....2 LBs....1CB... thats 5 rookies starting plus the slot CB. another 6 will see time. there are going to be mistakes.

i think your one year too early. next year should be the 8 wins and the playoffs the next. very few rookie QBs get anywhere close to 8 wins. 

so Pittsburgh, Oakland, Miami, and Washington aren't better than they were in 2019? time didn't stop for them. 

the players we brought in since 2017? there is only a few left.  Maye, QW, Crowder...Griffin ..did TE Brown make the team? cause that's it. after that all the other players on the roster are from last year and this. 

92.45% of the roster got here in 2020 and this year. but the rebuild according to you started in 2017. 

regardless of what Woody told you in 2017 to " Suck for Sam " that rebuild ended. 

nobody here wants to lose. but you cant say you don't care about who the HC or GM is now, you were told a rebuild started in 2017 and its 4 years now and you want results. things changed. when 92% of the roster changes in 2 years that's call a new rebuild.

 

You've been here pretty long.  You should know this is a bit by now.  I think generally we just make fun of leased BMWs and PSLs and move on.

[SAR I]

12 minutes ago, doitny said:

92.45% of the roster got here in 2020 and this year. but the rebuild according to you started in 2017. 

when 92% of the roster changes in 2 years that's call a new rebuild.

No, that's called "Joe Douglas sucks" which is my actual point.

All teams rebuild; very few do it this badly.  And the bad guy looks like your beer buddy.  And everyone loves him.  And he added maybe one player of note last season.  And he has a fetish for guys with prior histories of leg injuries.  And he thinks he can find starters while dumpster diving.  And he comes from the Eagles who are the epitome of the joke franchise with a backup QB that got lucky one time.  So we're f'cked.

SAR I