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O-line was supposed to be Joe Douglas' expertise


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17 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Really?  AVT and Moses?  2 out of 5 are new and they just dont need to work together, the comment about an OL needing to work together doesnt count?

We dont have good players?  Becton, AVT and Moses arent good?  

4/5 of the starting OL was the same as the second half of 2020. They had one OL change to start the game: just AVT. Moses wasn’t in until Becton’s injury.

If this blocking scheme takes players upwards of 2 years to be proficient, then you bring in guys who’ve done it and already showed proficiency before.

It won’t look like this week after week all year long. AVT won’t be a backup level pass blocker for his career. But when starting a rookie QB out of the gate it’s a fair critique.

If the current personnel is fated to be this ill-suited for what LaFleur ideally wants to do, and it won’t improve until at least 2 more new starters are brought in? Then install a system that does suit this group, until the personnel skill set is a match for what they really want.

I’m in wait and see mode, seeing how it’s just one game (ugly as it was for the OL). But with Becton, Moses, one rookie G, and the King of the Dipshits winner at the other starting guard slot? With a rookie QB I t’s not an illegitimate notion that perhaps this year going with more man-blocking might have been in order. But again, we’ll see if they rapidly improve or if this mess happens regularly/weekly for months.

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He's put together a line just about as good as Macc did.

The trolls are here! The trolls are here!

Signed Moses only to sit him. Drafted Becton and AVT and barely even runs left.

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38 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

4/5 of the starting OL was the same as the second half of 2020. They had one OL change to start the game: just AVT. Moses wasn’t in until Becton’s injury.

If this blocking scheme takes players upwards of 2 years to be proficient, then you bring in guys who’ve done it and already showed proficiency before.

It won’t look like this week after week all year long. AVT won’t be a backup level pass blocker for his career. But when starting a rookie QB out of the gate it’s a fair critique.

If the current personnel is fated to be this ill-suited for what LaFleur ideally wants to do, and it won’t improve until at least 2 more new starters are brought in? Then install a system that does suit this group, until the personnel skill set is a match for what they really want.

I’m in wait and see mode, seeing how it’s just one game (ugly as it was for the OL). But with Becton, Moses, one rookie G, and the King of the Dipsh*ts winner at the other starting guard slot? With a rookie QB I t’s not an illegitimate notion that perhaps this year going with more man-blocking might have been in order. But again, we’ll see if they rapidly improve or if this mess happens regularly/weekly for months.

Fair points.  If you’re installing a system, do you run this system despite the results (first half) or abandon it when it’s clearly not working (second half)?  Do you only play guys who know the entire system (berrios) or play guys who know only part of it (mims)?  Ultimately these guys are graded on results, so if you’re not scoring, and if your rookie qb is getting hammered 10x/game, then the losses and criticisms will mount.  

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9 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

You actually think the 4, no Moses dont need to work together because they did a year ago?  That you just plug in a rookie and the line just functions smoothly because some played together a year ago.   

Never mind that in short order the line was playing with 2 lineman who weren't here a year ago, one a rookie who missed all of the preseason and a huge hunk of camp with a pectoral injury.  And probably isnt close to top shape.  Its the simple reasons sometimes.  

Look,

I have little doubt the line will get better.  I agree that, not so much, that they haven't worked together, but they are implementing a new system and by all accounts it's a very tough system to learn.  That seems to be clearly playing a role.   As they get more comfortable, they will get better.

My biggest concern is the fact that Fant, GVR and McGovern were not upgraded and that, IMO, Becton has been a disappointment.

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ya gotta give these guys a few weeks to figure it out. I'm not saying the o-line won't suck all year, but there's a lot going on with the new offense and a rookie offensive coordinator. No one wants to hear that on the internet, but this is going to be a work in progress. By week 8 it may look entirely different.

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Just now, FidelioJet said:

Look,

I have little doubt the line will get better.  I agree that, not so much, that they haven't worked together, but they are implementing a new system and by all accounts it's a very tough system to learn.  That seems to be clearly playing a role.   As they get more comfortable, they will get better.

My biggest concern is the fact that Fant, GVR and McGovern were not upgraded and that, IMO, Becton has been a disappointment.

Nobody on the planet thinks Bectons play has been a disappointment.  

Its wrong to keep repeating this over and over again as if makes it true.  He had a shltty game before getting hurt.  Just dont pile on and be one of the dopes who made fun of him for the way he reacted.  Its a dislocated knee cap and strained MCL.  Add in cartridge damage and all the tough guys who were saying he overreacted look kind of stupid now for an injury like this that requires surgery and most like left him thinking his season was over. 

 

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13 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Nobody on the planet thinks Bectons play has been a disappointment.  

Its wrong to keep repeating this over and over again as if makes it true.  He had a shltty game before getting hurt.  Just dont pile on and be one of the dopes who made fun of him for the way he reacted.  Its a dislocated knee cap and strained MCL.  Add in cartridge damage and all the tough guys who were saying he overreacted look kind of stupid now for an injury like this that requires surgery and most like left him thinking his season was over. 

 

Well, I do and I'm on this planet.

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4 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, I do and I'm on this planet.

Add me to the list of Earth inhabitants not overly impressed with Becton.   So far, I'd put my opinion of the guy in the "he's been fine" category.  Not horrible.  But not what I expected from the pick, either.

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Just now, munchmemory said:

Add me to the list of Earth inhabitants not overly impressed with Becton.   So far, I'd put my opinion of the guy in the "he's been fine" category.  Not horrible.  But not what I expected from the pick, either.

Which, of course, is a disappointment.  

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5 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

Well, I do and I'm on this planet.

Good for you then.  

Its hard to believe anyone could have missed all the positives reported about this player.

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1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Good for you then.  

Its hard to believe anyone could have missed all the positives reported about this player.

I don't think he's been terrible.  But I expected more.

I've been disappointed.  

Maybe my expectations of him being able to play a full season was too much.  

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6 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

I don't think he's been terrible.  But I expected more.

I've been disappointed.  

Maybe my expectations of him being able to play a full season was too much.  

Being disappointed in his play because he had a shoulder injury last year and now had his knee rolled up on is kind hard to call a disappointment in the player or the pick.  Especially when he was pretty dominant most of the time when healthy

 

 

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1 hour ago, Barry McCockinner said:

ya gotta give these guys a few weeks to figure it out. I'm not saying the o-line won't suck all year, but there's a lot going on with the new offense and a rookie offensive coordinator. No one wants to hear that on the internet, but this is going to be a work in progress. By week 8 it may look entirely different.

I think we will be fine moving forward at both Tackle spots even without Becton.  Fant has experience at LT and is playing for a contract.  Moses is a good RT

 

I’m very worried about the interior of the OL. McGovern and Van Roten are JAGs and AVT looked terrible 

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As I bellowed in another thread about our offensive line woes.  I responded to a poster who pasted Joe D for not signing the notable veteran OL who were recently available.  Next year's offensive line will feature Becton at LT, AVT at LG and McDermott and Feeney in reserve.  That's it.  Oh, the practice squad guys are ours.  But they are UDFAs.  Fant, Moses, Edoga and Van Roten can all leave because their contracts are up.  As for the Center, McGovern - he has underperformed his contract and returns only after a pay cut and that is not likely. 

We are looking at three new starters next season and only McDermott is a valuable reserve.  That we lack anyone in the pipeline is just criminal.  As I wrote:

I love this optimism.  I truly do.  And I believe a priority must be to build the offensive line.

But Jack Conklin, Corey Lindsley and Trent Williams were never going to come to a bottom five NFL team.  These are desirable starters with plenty of tread on the tire.  Why on earth would they sign with the Jets when they will get comparable offers elsewhere?  Especially for an offensive lineman.  They know it is a five to six man dance, not one-on-one.  When there are weak links getting pushed around, guys get rolled up just like our expensive young Mr. Becton.  Had Trent Williams decided to sign with the Jets, the exact same thing would have happened to him.   The left tackle cannot block the interior too.  I note that the Panther Center - Matt Paradis - refused to sign with us and we ended up with McGovern who was the second best guy on the market.  We paid up for him too.  Paradis beat the snot out of us yesterday.  Bad teams cannot sign the good players unless they back up the truck.  After Trumaine Johnson, Bell and - yes - CJ Mosley we know a single player cannot turn things around.   We need to draft and extend our own people.    

The only way out of our offensive line hell is the draft.  What I saw yesterday convinced me that AVT may be part of the answer in the long run, but he is not going to be a force anytime soon.  The draft capital we spent on him would have yielded three starters had we simply kept to the value board.  We would not have had to throw them into the game either.  We could have still started Lewis, McGovern and Van Roten.  But at least there would be a  $$&^ing backup plan.  My problem is not with AVT - though I do question the wisdom of starting Becton and AVT after missing all or part of preseason.  They were not ready and it showed..  Not that we had any choice whatsoever.  Can you imagine if we threw in the backups?  And there were answers in the draft THIS SEASON.  Just kills me.

Look at the Chiefs.  They took their C Creed Humphrey in the 2d, their RT Louis Niang in the 3d and their RG Trey Smith in the 6th.  They also signed Thuney (he was NEVER coming here fellas) and traded for Orlando Brown.  A whole starting offensive line in one shopping spree.  A good one too (for gap schemes).   Could the Jets have gotten Brown and Thuney?  Not if either of them had any say in it.   Could we have drafted Humphrey, Niang and Smith?  Yes.  And it is exactly the sort of heavy - yet shrewd - investment we need if our line is ever going to gel.  Now Niang and Smith are not fits for the zone scheme, but there were multiple guys available who were fits and who went in the 3d round.  Wonderful Guard/Centers like Menerz and Green and the RT candidate Spencer Brown went in the third.  The Bills did not even need Brown and put him into the wine celler for seasoning.  These guys would have been bona-fide possible answers for the Jets if our 1s fail.  We have no answers, just veterans who are worse than the starters.  

Another whole season where we are playing band aids like Van Roten and people who are VERY likely to depart in free agency next year in Fant and Moses.  A whole year of snaps given to people who will not even be on the $^$&*%$ing team next season.  It doesn't have to be this way.  Our bench lacks any decent starting prospects.  I love what I saw from Grant Hermanns in the preseason, but he is still an UDFA.  Yet he is the best young OL prospect on the Jets this season after AVT.  That is just unacceptable.   We were not a good line.  How can you rebuild the #^&$%$ing team if your bench lacks decent starting prospects?  

Of all the teams in the league the Jets were the one team that should not have moved up early in the draft.   We just had too many needs.  Those two third round picks and the late first would have yielded all the help we needed.  Yes, I know we got back a late 4th (63 spots behind the late 3d we gave up).  But the starting interior prospects were gone by then (we could have taken Drew Dalman in the 4th instead of MC1).  We had the backs but we lacked interior OL prospects and Ray Charles could see it.  Instead, we play Van Roten who is not part of the future.  We also start both Moses and Fant and they are going to leave. 

Just criminal not to have some decent draft picks to insert as plan B.  

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3 hours ago, Barry McCockinner said:

ya gotta give these guys a few weeks to figure it out. I'm not saying the o-line won't suck all year, but there's a lot going on with the new offense and a rookie offensive coordinator. No one wants to hear that on the internet, but this is going to be a work in progress. By week 8 it may look entirely different.

"Remember, the starting five on the offensive line had no game reps together in the preseason" 

https://www.espn.com/blog/new-york-jets/post/_/id/87587/new-york-jets-protection-issues-could-be-pain-in-neck-for-zach-wilson

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