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My Grades from Week 1 vs Panthers


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12 hours ago, JetBlue said:

Why are people not realizing that Moore missed the entire preseason, scrimmages and part of training camp????   This is his very first real NFL action in pads; give him a little time.

i do and will.  it's just that he was hyped by the usual morons in the media during the ota's and then training camp.  we'll see.

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13 hours ago, Rexorcism said:


You lost me here, Mosely was brutal, he was constantly caught out of position and missed many tackles. He had me missing Neville Hewitt.

Gave the unit an F, Mosleys PD was the only real positive from that position group haha just happy we got to see a full game from him

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Special teams deserves the A. Even outside of amendola, guys like Hardee played well. Berrios was sure handed and had a nice return late. Boyer has shown in the past if you give him some talent he can put together a real nice unit. Hoping to see special teams continue to have success. 

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2 minutes ago, bla bla bla said:

Joe Douglas used 18 years worth of rookie contracts, 4 draft picks in 2 years, to make the Becton and AVT selections, I would say that is a high amount of resources

Exactly and that takes us to the really scary point, which is that he may be really bad at drafting. He drafted Becton who has not been able to be consistently on the field. There is no argument there.  Cam Clark, who nobody ever heard of, I didnt even count him. He was invisible in his first year, and prior to his unfortunate injury there was no news that he was lightning it up on training camp. AVT was not able to be healthy during his first training camp. You said 4 picks, my apologies, I dont know who the 4th is.

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1 hour ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

Exactly and that takes us to the really scary point, which is that he may be really bad at drafting. He drafted Becton who has not been able to be consistently on the field. There is no argument there.  Cam Clark, who nobody ever heard of, I didnt even count him. He was invisible in his first year, and prior to his unfortunate injury there was no news that he was lightning it up on training camp. AVT was not able to be healthy during his first training camp. You said 4 picks, my apologies, I dont know who the 4th is.

The Jets traded two 3rds for AVT, so I was adding in the contracts we sacrificed. I wasn't really factoring in Cam Clarke as a 4th round OL isn't necessarily going to be considered a starter. Douglas may very well be bad at drafting but by all accounts people around the league were gushing over Becton and many people believe AVT to be the best OL of this last draft class (yes including Sewell). I can hate the results we've gotten so far but given the knowledge we had at the time of selection, I'm not sure I'd have done anything different - hindsight, yea maybe you go Wirfs but still gotta remember he's playing RT with the GOAT QB so he never really needed to hold blocks very long.

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10 hours ago, Jethead said:

Jim Brown and Gayle Sayers for me. Brown is the goat. Sayers was the craziest, Sanders 3rd place. OJ 4th.

I hear you.  Game in and game out - for the career - it is hard to argue and I will not try   Compared to them TD is a mere shooting star.  But to me, HOF players win the ring.  Terrell Davis dominated the NFL as the best player but also won Super Bowls.   Many speak about Elway, but anyone who watched those post season runs - the only thing that really matters fellas - know who stirred those drinks.   Who won those rings.  It was Davis. 

Davis was the only back I ever saw - besides Curtis Martin - who made a HOF career out of carrying guys on his back for that extra yard.  In the end, Davis just kept moving the sticks and there was little the NFL could do about it until the knee.  In 1997 and 1998, he willed Denver to back to back titles with arguably the greatest post-season performances by an offensive player in NFL history.  TD played eight post-season games in his career.  He carried the ball 204 times for 1,140 yards, 12 TDs and won them all.  A whole season in eight games.   In 1997 - 1,750 yards rushing, 12-4 and the ring.  In 1998 - 2008 yards, 14-2, NFL MVP and the ring.   I remember watching it.   Those Broncos teams were not flawless.   We know you do not give Tom the ball with one minute left down one score.  Well, TD taught the NFL that if you got behind in the 2d half, Denver would run out the clock even though everybody in America knew Davis was getting the ball.  It just didn't matter.  You could read the play and he would still get the necessary yardage.   Just like a trapped Curtis Martin eluding the free runner and making four yards out of absolutely nothing.   The WRs on those teams?  Flipper Anderson, Ed McCaffery and Rod Smith in 1997.    In 1998 it was only Ed and Rod.  These were not great teams, you could argue they weren't even very good.  Elway never did anything before or after TD.  The only notable offensive players were the Center Tom Nalen and the Tight End Shannon Sharpe.  The only notable player on defense was the safety Steve Atwater.   He was 5' 11" 210 lbs and not particularly fast.  

Like OJ, he was a one-man team.  Unlike OJ, he reached a level in his play that went unchecked by the entire NFL for two whole years.  He is in the Hall despite a six year career which is really just four.  It was far more than the statistics.  He controlled the game in the critical moments with people hanging all over him.   It was exciting football to watch.  Bill Parcells had rebuilt us from the depths of the ______ era and we met Denver for the AFC Championship after that 1998 season.  23-10, Denver.  TD - 167 yards and a score to ice the game.  The game was not as close as the score.  Without the blocked punt, we lose 23-3.

It all ended with the knee in the 4th game of his 5th year.  I apologize for bringing it up, but the great TD went down for the count a trying to make a tackle on an interception.  Against us.     

 

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4 hours ago, bla bla bla said:

The Jets traded two 3rds for AVT, so I was adding in the contracts we sacrificed. I wasn't really factoring in Cam Clarke as a 4th round OL isn't necessarily going to be considered a starter. Douglas may very well be bad at drafting but by all accounts people around the league were gushing over Becton and many people believe AVT to be the best OL of this last draft class (yes including Sewell). I can hate the results we've gotten so far but given the knowledge we had at the time of selection, I'm not sure I'd have done anything different - hindsight, yea maybe you go Wirfs but still gotta remember he's playing RT with the GOAT QB so he never really needed to hold blocks very long.

That is all nice and good, and surely intention is part of evaluating any process, but in the end the most important factor in evaluating a sports management process is the result you get. Would you not agree?

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7 hours ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

one pick for OL in each year doesn´t cut it

When those picks are 1st rounders (including one we paid a heavy price to move up for), it should, IF they work out.  That's a lot of draft capital used on the OL, so you can't just say "its only 2 guys".  These aren't prospects on the level of Chuma Edoga or Jarvis Harrison that we're talking about here.

We used two first round picks on OL in one draft in 2006, and since one was a LT and they both hit, that basically set up our offensive line nicely for 10 years.

It's heavy draft capital to use, but when it works it easily pays off.

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1 hour ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

That is all nice and good, and surely intention is part of evaluating any process, but in the end the most important factor in evaluating a sports management process is the result you get. Would you not agree?

Of course, but your argument is that two 1st rounders spend on the OL isn't enough.  It wasn't about whether they'll work out or not.  And the truth is, yes, two 1st rounders spent on the OL should be more than enough to end up with a quality OL. 

You don't just use more high picks on OL because you're assuming those 1st rounders won't work out.  When you take a Becton at 11 and move up for AVT, you're doing so with the expectation that both will end up elite players and make the rest of the OL's job easier.  Just like Ferguson and Mangold did for this OL for 10 years.

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On 9/13/2021 at 12:21 AM, bla bla bla said:

2 years of resources:

Signing McGovern

Signing Van Roton

Signing Fant

Signing Lewis

Drafting Becton

Trading up to take AVT

Signing Moses

 

Given the resources we've put into this unit it should be far better.

Agreed.  The following will be excuses but perhaps valid ones.

In 2 drafts JD has drafted two top 16 overall OL.  They've played ONE game in a brand new scheme and this unit has had basically no time with all 5 working together.  Thank God he signed Morgan Moses despite having 2 "starting" tackles or this mess of an OL would be catastrophically worse.  All FA signings were given almost all guaranteed money in the first 1-2 years so we are not locked into any of these pieces. 

Alex Lewis's retirement was a hit, Cam Clark injury was a hit, Mcdermott injury was a hit.

 

JD is well aware of the primacy of a stout OL.  He has poured resources into it and at this point there are no additions to be made.  You hope that with some experience they will improve this year and keep Zach from getting damaged physically and psychologically.  And next off season the emphasis continues to build the line with our abundance of draft picks and cap space.

 

 

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8 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

When those picks are 1st rounders (including one we paid a heavy price to move up for), it should, IF they work out.  That's a lot of draft capital used on the OL, so you can't just say "its only 2 guys".  These aren't prospects on the level of Chuma Edoga or Jarvis Harrison that we're talking about here.

When your crappy oline is composed of 5 guys, and you need to fix it, taking 1 guy in consecutive years is not enough. Part of the reason of the success you recall is connected to the fact that we drafted 2 guys in one year. 

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2 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

When your crappy oline is composed of 5 guys, and you need to fix it, taking 1 guy in consecutive years is not enough. Part of the reason of the success you recall is connected to the fact that we drafted 2 guys in one year. 

Because we had 2 first rounders that year and one of them didn't need to be used on a QB.  

Using back to back 1st rounders in back to back years on OL is hardly any different from using two in 1 year.  Particularly since we traded up to the middle of the 1st for AVT.  Mangold was at the very back end of the 1st round.  

And I mean he did take project OL Cameron Clark in the 4th round in 2020, so its not like it was just 2 guys anyways.  

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3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Using back to back 1st rounders in back to back years on OL is hardly any different from using two in 1 year.  Particularly since we traded up to the middle of the 1st for AVT.  Mangold was at the very back end of the 1st round.  

You really dont see a difference between waiting an entire season to add one more guy to a crappy line, than adding two at the same time. That is what you are going to say?

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3 minutes ago, Ecuadorian Jet said:

You really dont see a difference between waiting an entire season to add one more guy to a crappy line, than adding two at the same time. That is what you are going to say?

He replaced all 5 starters in 2020 (Becton, McGovern, Fant, etc), plus drafted Clark.  He added AVT and Moses this year.  He used two 1st round picks on OL in back to back years.  That's a lot of resources.  So, yes, while I see a difference in using 1sts in back to back years rather than the same year, its not a significant difference to me.  

The OL was a dumpster fire when he arrived and is a work in progress 2 years in.  That's what happens when you draft poorly for a decade.  It's impossible to fix in 1 offseason.  Hopefully we get it right the remainder of this year and it will have been fixed in 2.

The additional factor?  The coaching change.  The Shanahan system on the OL is completely different than the one under Gase.  Hence why it probably wouldn't have been as beneficial to have taken 2 OL high in 2020.

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2 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

He replaced all 5 starters in 2020 (Becton, McGovern, Fant, etc), plus drafted Clark.  He added AVT and Moses this year.  He used two 1st round picks on OL in back to back years.  That's a lot of resources.  So, yes, while I see a difference in using 1sts in back to back years rather than the same year, its not a significant difference to me.  

The OL was a dumpster fire when he arrived and is a work in progress 2 years in.  That's what happens when you draft poorly for a decade.  It's impossible to fix in 1 offseason.  Hopefully we get it right the remainder of this year and it will have been fixed in 2.

The additional factor?  The coaching change.  The Shanahan system on the OL is completely different than the one under Gase.  Hence why it probably wouldn't have been as beneficial to have taken 2 OL high in 2020.

Thank you for accepting that there is a huge difference between what happened in 2006 and what JD has done. I appreciate that. Another difference, the scouts got it right with DBrick and Mangold. 

I understand that things are a work in progress. How long do you think that JD has until he gets right?

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