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Jets Handling of Denzel Mims Reaches Point of Absurdity


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2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I'm honestly curious, do you think Coach Saleh or LaFleur think that they'd do a better job "protecting their No. 1 asset" by installing a system other than their own system......but chose to install their system anyway?

It's almost like you think they made a conscious, mutually exclusive, decision to not protect Wilson.  

What system would protect Wilson better, in your view, than the one these Coaches know and run? 

 

Coach Lefleur has very little experience and his only experience is under Shanahan.  I don't think he has a plan B.

I think they are installing the only system they can actually run.  So far can't run the ball, can't protect the QB.  

I like Saleh but it's possible Lefleur is way over his ski's.

 

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Denzel Mims’ relationship with the New York Jets has been a strange one through his first season-plus as a pro, and it took another turn for the worse in the Jets season-opening 19-14 loss to the Caro

I agree completely with this post, however its not necessarily because of the ball Mims caught as it was a broken play. Im much more concerned with the general theme of how can we not figure out

He made a nice catch when he was wide open.  Made zero effort to get into the end zone.  I thought the guy looked like he dogged it on his one big catch. 

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Did he not make adjustments in the second half? I tell ya ,this forum is something else

Coach Lefleur has very little experience and his only experience is under Shanahan.  I don't think he has a plan B.
I think they are installing the only system they can actually run.  So far can't run the ball, can't protect the QB.  
I like Saleh but it's possible Lefleur is way over his ski's.
 


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30 minutes ago, Biggs said:

Coach Lefleur has very little experience and his only experience is under Shanahan.  I don't think he has a plan B.

I think they are installing the only system they can actually run.  So far can't run the ball, can't protect the QB.  

I like Saleh but it's possible Lefleur is way over his ski's.

 

It's also possible that he will turn out to be a great coach that needs more than 1 week to show what he can do. Maybe give him 2 weeks and then we can fire him and bring in another inexperienced guy or a retread because that is what you get at OC. 

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1 minute ago, Warfish said:

It's possible, I'd agree, hard to say as yet.

I guess I'm just a bit boggled that you seem to think LaFleur should be abandoning his system and actively going to "Plan B" after a single game.

It just seems incredibly premature to me.  The idea that any coach or system gets one single game, or he needs to change everything on the fly just seems crazy to me.  

Is it possible some folks are being just a tad impatient?  That maybe it might take a game or two to get this thing up and running right?

Or is seeing one bad game enough, and we need to burn it all down and start over?  

I don't think this was just a one game thing.  From all the reports during TC the DL was beating the OL to death.   I'm sure they are going over the tape and will try and fix it.  

I'm impatient because I don't want to see Zach badly hurt.  You watch the guys head slamming into the turf and you get impatient.   That wasn't just ugly it was dangerous.  

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3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

It's also possible that he will turn out to be a great coach that needs more than 1 week to show what he can do. Maybe give him 2 weeks and then we can fire him and bring in another inexperienced guy or a retread because that is what you get at OC. 

Didn't say any of that.  I'm glad Zach is going to be able to play in week 2.  

FYI the Jets had two historically great coaching staffs.  The won the SB with one and went to the AFC finals with one. 

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7 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I don't think this was just a one game thing.  From all the reports during TC the DL was beating the OL to death.   I'm sure they are going over the tape and will try and fix it.  

I'm impatient because I don't want to see Zach badly hurt.  You watch the guys head slamming into the turf and you get impatient.   That wasn't just ugly it was dangerous.  

I get it, I do.  Wilson must be protected.

But we fans also must be patient.  Rome wasn't built in a day, and as much as WE'VE been here suffering for years and decades, Saleh, LaFluer, Wilson and even JD haven't.  

We need to give them time.  

Be assured, at year end if they all suck, I'll happily join the "they all sucked this year, what do we do about it!" chorus.

But after only one game, their first game (for all of um', Saleh, LaFluer and Wilson), I think a little time is ok, even if week 1 was horrible in the first half, and scary when it came to Wilson.

On the bright side, I (for one) doubted Wilson could take hits.  He took 6, some of the quite hard, and bounced right back up.  I'm actually sorta glad to see that in a way, proof he may not be as small and fragile as I might have expected.

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1 hour ago, Alentador31 said:

Please point me to the sources if I'm wrong but I never read/heard anything about Robby not knowing other routes or positions.

Also, he was the best receiver on the roster. That is not the case with Mims. 

1. I think it was a pretty common discussion point that Robbie was seen a bit as a one-trick pony, with limited route running capabilities

2. No one is saying Mims is a WR #1.  The bulk of the debate is whether he belongs on the field in some capacity vs. sitting in the dog house for all except 3 snaps on Sunday...

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9 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

1. I think it was a pretty common discussion point that Robbie was seen a bit as a one-trick pony, with limited route running capabilities

2. No one is saying Mims is a WR #1.  The bulk of the debate is whether he belongs on the field in some capacity vs. sitting in the dog house for all except 3 snaps on Sunday...

Doghouse generally implies that he wasn't playing for non-football-talent related reasons. No one is suggesting that Jeff Smith only played 9 snaps because he is in the doghouse, we just all assume he wasn't the best option. Perhaps, that is how the Jets view Mims. 

Again, I am a big Mims fan and REALLY want him to succeed but maybe the Jets don't think he is a better option than Corey/Moore/Berrios. 

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1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Coach Lefleur has very little experience and his only experience is under Shanahan.  I don't think he has a plan B.

I think they are installing the only system they can actually run.  So far can't run the ball, can't protect the QB.  

I like Saleh but it's possible Lefleur is way over his ski's.

 

All you heard off season is it takes time to get Shanahan style of blocking down.  After q game you want to change it up?

The o line took zero snaps as a unit in the preseason.   It showed, and they played poorly in their first game.

What offensive style works when your line can't block?

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11 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Doghouse generally implies that he wasn't playing for non-football-talent related reasons. No one is suggesting that Jeff Smith only played 9 snaps because he is in the doghouse, we just all assume he wasn't the best option. Perhaps, that is how the Jets view Mims. 

Again, I am a big Mims fan and REALLY want him to succeed but maybe the Jets don't think he is a better option than Corey/Moore/Berrios. 

At some point the mystery behind what's going on here will be revealed.  I just cannot fathom a 2nd round draft pick, who had many of us saying "Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you" last year. is riding the pine because he's struggling to grasp LaFleur's route trees or because he ate a bad piece of fish...

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29 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

1. I think it was a pretty common discussion point that Robbie was seen a bit as a one-trick pony, with limited route running capabilities

2. No one is saying Mims is a WR #1.  The bulk of the debate is whether he belongs on the field in some capacity vs. sitting in the dog house for all except 3 snaps on Sunday...

A common discussion point in a fan forum should hardly be considered a fact. I saw Anderson catch more than just bombs. I've never read anything from the coaching staff saying anything about him not knowing the playbook or other WR spots. 

Like I said, if you have, please post them. 

Also, I agree Mims isn't a #1. I think you're missing the point of my statement. I meant, even if Robby was a 1 trick pony, you cant compare their playing time because when Robby was on the team he was the best option. 

Right now, the coaching staff has 3 players minimum that are ahead of Mims. Thus, if you really want to be on the field, learn the playbook so you can get in when you can.

It is very simple. These players are professionals getting paid millions. Learn the playbook. 

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11 minutes ago, peekskill68 said:

At some point the mystery behind what's going on here will be revealed.  I just cannot fathom a 2nd round draft pick, who had many of us saying "Thank you Joe Douglas, thank you" last year. is riding the pine because he's struggling to grasp LaFleur's route trees or because he ate a bad piece of fish...

It is definitely an odd situation. 

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34 minutes ago, Lith said:

This almost makes it sound like he could be inactive this week with Cole and Crowder coming back.

 

the translation is mims wants to be a one route receiver and saleh wants interchangeable parts.  nothing wrong with that.  players most times get the benfit of the doubt but it just could be he's copping an attitude. with crowder and cole coming back soon, mims could very well be the odd man out.

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4 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I'm not sure I understand.  We want coaches to hold the players accountable.  Then when they do we complain? 

We want coaches to get the best players on the field.  Okay, how are we supposed to do that if Mims only knows the one spot?  Should we be benching Corey Davis?  Sure as sh*t didn't look like it on Sunday.  What snaps were you going to take away for Mims?  Jeff Smith's?  Fine, put a stake through my heart, but I don't see those 9 snaps shutting anyone up.  He evidently can't play slot where we know Berrios spent his time.  

They played 2 TE (or TE + FB) for 29 snaps and according to the snap counts had 2 backs in for another 32.  I like Mims as much as the next guy, but it seems like he isn't helping himself and it doesn't seem fair, or necessarily smart, to monkey with Davis because Mims only knows one spot.  For ****'s sake, Enunwa learned the Y.  FWIW, I expect to see Mims more as the season goes on and I think that as Chrebet points out, some of this stuff is dependent on what they are doing and the reduced number of snaps they had because they started so poorly.

I like how they're posting these takes per curiam now.

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1 minute ago, Biggs said:

Coach Lefleur has very little experience and his only experience is under Shanahan.  I don't think he has a plan B.

I think they are installing the only system they can actually run.  So far can't run the ball, can't protect the QB.  

I like Saleh but it's possible Lefleur is way over his ski's.

 

His brother is a HC and is an expert in the same system. LaFleur will adjust. It's one game. A game we might have won with one additional defensive stop or if Moore makes a catch

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1 hour ago, johnnysd said:

His brother is a HC and is an expert in the same system. LaFleur will adjust. It's one game. A game we might have won with one additional defensive stop or if Moore makes a catch

if he was Bill Walsh’s kid brother I would feel a lot better about him.  I’m a big believer in nepotism.  

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5 hours ago, Warfish said:

It's possible, I'd agree, hard to say as yet.

I guess I'm just a bit boggled that you seem to think LaFleur should be abandoning his system and actively going to "Plan B" after a single game.

It just seems incredibly premature to me.  The idea that any coach or system gets one single game, or he needs to change everything on the fly just seems crazy to me.  

Is it possible some folks are being just a tad impatient?  That maybe it might take a game or two to get this thing up and running right?

Or is seeing one bad game enough, and we need to burn it all down and start over?  

So much this. I've been silent this whole time after week 1 but holy sh*t is this board insufferable. It's one ******* game you ******* pussies. They showed promise. They stood up and fought. This team is going to get better. If you can't see that from the CAR game then you should watch NASCAR or something you ******* dolts.

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7 hours ago, Warfish said:

It's possible, I'd agree, hard to say as yet.

I guess I'm just a bit boggled that you seem to think LaFleur should be abandoning his system and actively going to "Plan B" after a single game.

It just seems incredibly premature to me.  The idea that any coach or system gets one single game, or he needs to change everything on the fly just seems crazy to me.  

Is it possible some folks are being just a tad impatient?  That maybe it might take a game or two to get this thing up and running right?

Or is seeing one bad game enough, and we need to burn it all down and start over?  

burn the witch halloween GIF

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On 9/13/2021 at 5:57 PM, Augustiniak said:

But this isn’t a college team.  Mims makes big plays.  At what point are they simply cutting their nose to spite their face by not playing him?  Instead of harping on what mims can’t do, why not exploit what he can do?  He’s 6’4” with an incredible wingspan.  If this coaching staff can’t figure out how to get this guy the ball and help wilson, i have little faith in them.

Thank you!

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12 hours ago, ultraJETfan said:

So much this. I've been silent this whole time after week 1 but holy sh*t is this board insufferable. It's one ******* game you ******* pussies. They showed promise. They stood up and fought. This team is going to get better. If you can't see that from the CAR game then you should watch NASCAR or something you ******* dolts.

So, you're 58 posts and you feel like it's your right to come on here and yell at the rest of us for having the courage to express our opinions?

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18 hours ago, Warfish said:

I get it, I do.  Wilson must be protected.

But we fans also must be patient.  Rome wasn't built in a day, and as much as WE'VE been here suffering for years and decades, Saleh, LaFluer, Wilson and even JD haven't.  

We need to give them time.  

Be assured, at year end if they all suck, I'll happily join the "they all sucked this year, what do we do about it!" chorus.

But after only one game, their first game (for all of um', Saleh, LaFluer and Wilson), I think a little time is ok, even if week 1 was horrible in the first half, and scary when it came to Wilson.

On the bright side, I (for one) doubted Wilson could take hits.  He took 6, some of the quite hard, and bounced right back up.  I'm actually sorta glad to see that in a way, proof he may not be as small and fragile as I might have expected.

He's got to make his bones without breaking them. Got to show the vets he's got what it takes. Even more important since he was handed the starting job. IMO, Zach won a great deal of respect from his teammates Sunday. If he can go toe to toe with The Great Cheater and not see ghosts he will take another big and necessary step. Like Saleh says, he needs to keep stacking.

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18 hours ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

Did he not make adjustments in the second half? I tell ya ,this forum is something else

 


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I don't think the O made any adjustments in the second half.  I think Zach made some amazing plays completely off platform.  He was sacked 4 times in the second half pressured constantly and forced to escape the pocket.  We ran the ball 5 times in the second half.  

The adjustment was Zach decided not to stand in the pocket and get killed on every play.   We basically abandoned the run because the score dictated it.  Zach carried the team and the OC not the other way around. 

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Just now, Biggs said:

I don't think the O made any adjustments in the second half.  I think Zach made some amazing plays completely off platform.  He was sacked 4 times in the second half pressured constantly and forced to escape the pocket.  We ran the ball 5 times in the second half.  

The adjustment was Zach decided not to stand in the pocket and get killed on every play.   We basically abandoned the run because the score dictated it.  Zach carried the team and the OC not the other way around. 

Oh,,,  so Zach called his own plays ,,, got it.

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2 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

Oh,,,  so Zach called his own plays ,,, got it.

Mims can't even run a route according to our coaching staff and he made one of the biggest plays of the game.  So yes Zach ran his own play after Lefleur's play calling almost killed him.

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50 minutes ago, FidelioJet said:

So, you're 58 posts and you feel like it's your right to come on here and yell at the rest of us for having the courage to express our opinions?

Maybe I overreacted. But all the negative hate speech after the CAR game really chaps my ass. I could understand if it was quarter/mid way of the season and they are looking like Crazy Eyes Jets but its only 1st game. I have faith in the CS that they will readjust and figure out how to strengthen the OL. Maybe Becton going down is blessing in disguise and the whole unit plays better Sunday.

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38 minutes ago, Biggs said:

I don't think the O made any adjustments in the second half.  I think Zach made some amazing plays completely off platform.  He was sacked 4 times in the second half pressured constantly and forced to escape the pocket.  We ran the ball 5 times in the second half.  

The adjustment was Zach decided not to stand in the pocket and get killed on every play.   We basically abandoned the run because the score dictated it.  Zach carried the team and the OC not the other way around. 

Lafleur was the definition of mediocre last Sunday 

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18 hours ago, Lith said:

This almost makes it sound like he could be inactive this week with Cole and Crowder coming back.

 

Honestly, I read this same thing and conclude the opposite is equally possible. Having Cole & Crowder both back means it cuts down, by a good amount, on the number of responsibilities/routes in which Mims has to show proficiency. If Crowder's getting the start, no one expects the next man up to be Mims over Cole in the slot.

However it's a legitimate complaint that, ok so when Berrios comes off the field then slide Moore inside and Mims in Moore's place (rather than Mims in Berrios's place directly). Giving the staff the benefit of the doubt, it may not be that simple (Mims may not even have memorized those remaining plays correctly, lining up wider). And yeah, if Mims is in the wrong place, it could lead to not only interceptions on timed patterns, but QB injury resulting from more bad sacks or worse (as it eats up another half-second or so of Wilson running through progressions). He's got to be where he's expected to be.

Yes they could have him start with a more limited playbook, but that's going to eat into his playing time tremendously. What if a lot of what he's getting wrong is when they need to audible? The only remedy left is to call TO. That's too much burden for the rest of the offense. 

All this assumes he's really grasped enough of the playbook this poorly overall, and it isn't just that he doesn't know everything well enough.

Too early to tell. But catching a pass on a breakdown in coverage, where he's standing all by himself, is more on the defense screwing up than Mims doing anything particularly right. I mean, ideally we all want to see a young player with his physical attributes on the field. That he's signed for 2 more years on the cheap is an added bonus for 2022 and 2023.

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