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Longterm Lurker more frustrated with SOJ FANS


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I understand that we live in a society where everyone needs instant gratification, but these are not the SOJ - however the Jets still have the SOJ FANS.  We have needed to tear it down completely for

Part of the problem? How so? Being critical of the team or not blindly ballwashing every move made by the team will result in what exactly? 

I'm not as close to the cliff, looking down off it, as you are. But yeah I fail to see how fan complaints after losses have the slightest thing to do with the team's performance in said loss.  Ju

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Criticism is part of it and I get that...I am talking moreso of the Chicken Little - THE SKY IS FALLING mentality.  Not every move is going to be that DESTINY CHANGER.  It should and hopefully be a measured process.  SAleh coaches one game - FIRE HIM.  JD signed Lawson but he got a season ending injury in preseason - FIRE HIM.  ZDub doesnt throw for 400 yards 4 TDs and no Interceptions in his 1st NFL Game - He Sucks.  AVT has no preseason due to injury and the line hasnt had the chance to properly gel - They Suck!!!

If we can all agree that the Jets make it challenging to be a fan with the lack of success then why do you think that it should change overnight - where there no rays of sunshine or hope?

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Nobody reasonable is calling for anyone's heads.

That said, after an offseason with a new HC, new OC, new QB, new starters on the OL, totally revamped WR room, and a totally revamped RB room -- it's reasonable to hope the offense doesn't look as woefully inept as our historically terrible offense from a year ago.

They showed some progress in the 2nd half, but bottom line -- that first half performance is absolutely unacceptable for an NFL team and Jets fans have every reason to be upset and to question why the team was so poorly prepared.

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I find it odd that certain Jet fans set their expectations so so low, there never seems to be an expectation of success. 
 

All fans, especially those of us who make an investment of our hard earned money on tickets deserve at least a competitive team to watch. 
 

Im also slightly irritated by this prediction that we are “tearing it down” “blowing it up” whatever the sexy phrase is the right way. I’m not sold yet on the way we are doing this. There absolutely is such a thing as a team to young, we seem completely void in depth in some position areas and we have had a ton of whiffs in the draft. 
 

With the exception of Zach, not sure what the confidence is that this is being “done the right way” 

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1 minute ago, Sir Speez said:

I can feel you on this, I would offer that with this team being so young and no offseason last year and many injuries in this years preseason that they really havent had time to gel.  Willie Colon was talking about this yesterday particularly when it comes to the OL.

"Time to gel".  4/5 of the offensive line was the same as last year, they know the smell of each other's farts at this point.  

We've been in this rebuild for 5 years.  It's not Year 1 of something.  It's Year 6.  Doesn't matter that the lead actors have changed.  It's the same film.

2 minutes ago, Sir Speez said:

I also think that as someone else mentioned that for the first time I saw some really good halftime adjustments for the first time in a while.  The Kids played better when they sped up the pace in the 2nd Half.

The odds of the Panthers losing the game with a 16 point lead at home in the 3rd quarter were single digits if they didn't turn the ball over.  They laid down, milked the clock, and let us gain meaningless yardage.  That's what the prevent defense is used for these days.

Talk to me after the Patriots game.  That's going to be one hell of a barometer.

SAR I

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6 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Nobody reasonable is calling for anyone's heads.

That said, after an offseason with a new HC, new OC, new QB, new starters on the OL, totally revamped WR room, and a totally revamped RB room -- it's reasonable to hope the offense doesn't look as woefully inept as our historically terrible offense from a year ago.

They showed some progress in the 2nd half, but bottom line -- that first half performance is absolutely unacceptable for an NFL team and Jets fans have every reason to be upset and to question why the team was so poorly prepared.

It was their 1st game..1/2 the OL has barely practiced...To go from barely practicing to the speed of a NFL regular season game is enormous! 

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I don't know. 10 years without sniffing the playoffs seems like more than enough time to wait.  I don't see many people outraged- the expectation is rookies will struggle and young teams need time to develop.  It's going to be a bit of a rollercoaster this year, but the hope is that by week 7 or 8 this team is gelling and improving,  and the young guys look like they belong.  

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3 minutes ago, SAR I said:

"Time to gel".  4/5 of the offensive line was the same as last year, they know the smell of each other's farts at this point.  

 

So you don think that learning a new blocking scheme would take time and consistently practicing and playing together to 'gel' - okay.

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3 minutes ago, shuler82 said:

I don't know. 10 years without sniffing the playoffs seems like more than enough time to wait.  I don't see many people outraged- the expectation is rookies will struggle and young teams need time to develop.  It's going to be a bit of a rollercoaster this year, but the hope is that by week 7 or 8 this team is gelling and improving,  and the young guys look like they belong.  

Not with the constant turnover of regimes (GM, coaching staff).

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1 minute ago, Sir Speez said:

So you don think that learning a new blocking scheme would take time and consistently practicing and playing together to 'gel' - okay.

It will take time but Zach might be dead by the time they get it.  You can't throw this talent behind a line that can't block because some day in the future you want to run Shanahan's O.  Zach is a huge talent.  We don't need to kill him to get the system working. 

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1 minute ago, Sir Speez said:

So you don think that learning a new blocking scheme would take time and consistently practicing and playing together to 'gel' - okay.

Add to that the lack of hitting in today's NFL practices vs 10-30-40 yrs ago. Tough to develop OL, in a new scheme, when you have so few practices w/pads

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6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

 

Talk to me after the Patriots game.  That's going to be one hell of a barometer.

 

You mean the Patriots game this week??? Uh yeah okay - Mac Jones is pretty much the main new peice of a system that has been in place for around 2 DECADES - but we have to figure ours out in a week.

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3 minutes ago, Bungaman said:

People here react like we lost by 20+ points - an all too common affair under the last coaching regime. We lost by less than a touchdown.

We will lose more close ones this year. But I expect to see effort, progress, and adjustments by coaches and players. I saw that yesterday. Having rooted for this team since watching Mike Lucci blow out Namath's knee, I don't want to be patient, either. But this was the first game, with probable jitters for all the team and coaches. Let's actually see how the season progresses.

The Jets won the 2nd half...Yes, they were horrid in the 1st half...However, they played better as the game went on. That IS what we want to see as the season goes on..And yes, there will be ups and downs..

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37 minutes ago, Sir Speez said:

Criticism is part of it and I get that...I am talking moreso of the Chicken Little - THE SKY IS FALLING mentality.  Not every move is going to be that DESTINY CHANGER.  It should and hopefully be a measured process.  SAleh coaches one game - FIRE HIM.  JD signed Lawson but he got a season ending injury in preseason - FIRE HIM.  ZDub doesnt throw for 400 yards 4 TDs and no Interceptions in his 1st NFL Game - He Sucks.  AVT has no preseason due to injury and the line hasnt had the chance to properly gel - They Suck!!!

If we can all agree that the Jets make it challenging to be a fan with the lack of success then why do you think that it should change overnight - where there no rays of sunshine or hope?

I don't remember seeing ONE post to Fire Saleh.  Maybe I  missed it. 

After 3 years, JD is taking some well earned criticism. His first 2 years he was basically beyond reproach.

Well...  IDGAF, he needs to do a better job drafting.  His drafts at best pedestrian.

We have had the worst GM's the last 8 years, JD NOT included. We have well below average talent on this team as a result.

You want to whitewash that..  go ahead.  I stand on the statement we are here because Woody is a weak minded owner with NO business skills and he left his only thing in life to play ambassador and gave the keys to the castle to his even dumber brother Chris. 

Chris has accomplished nothing in life and Woody let's him run the Jets. I don't see the Steelers, Ravens and many other teams ever doing that.

 

 

 

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25 minutes ago, C Mart said:

Not with the constant turnover of regimes (GM, coaching staff).

Because Woody and Chris have no concept of how to hire.  If a restaurant or any business had the same problem, you wouldn't go there.

When an owner is turning over GM and HC every 3 years maybe it's the owner and not them.

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1 minute ago, southparkcpa said:

 

After 3 years, JD is taking some well earned criticism. His first 2 years he was basically beyond reproach.

Well...  IDGAF, he needs to do a better job drafting.  His drafts at best pedestrian.

We have had the worst GM's the last 8 years, JD NOT included. We have well below average talent on this team as a result.

 

 

 

 

Not whitewashing it, I actually agree with these points - and frustrated with the OLine a bit since that is/was supposed to be his specialty.  You cant come in promising Mr & Mrs Darnold that you are going to protect their boy and not HEAVILY invest in that Wall 

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5 hours ago, Sir Speez said:

I understand that we live in a society where everyone needs instant gratification, but these are not the SOJ - however the Jets still have the SOJ FANS.  We have needed to tear it down completely for years and we are in the midst of the next phase which is the rebuild that and will have many growing pains along the way.  Basically a new everything from top to bottom, dealing with major and minor injuries, false expectations based on vanilla pre-season, too much beer and brautwurst.  If you cant see both the positives and negatives from yesterdays game and that this is an ongoing process then you are part of the SOJ FANS Club and part of the problem.

 

I have been here from before 2007 when I decided to join and check in daily, so Im not new to this.  I am optimistic and realistic at the same damn time so maybe that doesnt make me a Fan as in a FANATIC who has unrealistic expectations and pontificates ad nasueum, vacillating between Love and Hate, Hope and Despair, Chicken Little and Willam Wallace.

 

I like the direction we seem to be going in and will be rooting for success, not hoping for failure or being an internet tough guy admonishing players who put their lives at risk for the sake of my pleasure in watching this barbaric sport which I played but have trepidation about letting my Sons play because of the known risks.

 

As we used to say back int he day - SOME OF YALL NEED TO TAKE A CHILL PILL.

 

Ok, Im going back in to Lurker Supreme Mode.

 

 

Bullcrap. When you jeopardize your prized possession in his first game it’s highly concerning. If things aren’t immediately adjusted, we’ll be on yet another rebuild off the rebuild that we were rebuilding. 

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58 minutes ago, SAR I said:

"Time to gel".  4/5 of the offensive line was the same as last year, they know the smell of each other's farts at this point.  

We've been in this rebuild for 5 years.  It's not Year 1 of something.  It's Year 6.  Doesn't matter that the lead actors have changed.  It's the same film.

The odds of the Panthers losing the game with a 16 point lead at home in the 3rd quarter were single digits if they didn't turn the ball over.  They laid down, milked the clock, and let us gain meaningless yardage.  That's what the prevent defense is used for these days.

Talk to me after the Patriots game.  That's going to be one hell of a barometer.

SAR I

Anyone else notice how utterly obsessed SAR I is with farts?

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52 minutes ago, Sir Speez said:

So you don think that learning a new blocking scheme would take time and consistently practicing and playing together to 'gel' - okay.

Oh, wait, so you’re saying that Saleh and LaFleur need more time, ah, I get it.  

Like you gave Gase and Loggains all that time in 2019, right?

So that means they’ve got 3 weeks to get this thing fixed before the billboards go up and the planes start flying, yes?

SAR I

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1 hour ago, C Mart said:

The problem is the fanbase is impatient from yrs, decades of ineptitude. This regime of Saleh and for the most part Douglas, had nothing to do with that. Saleh, coaching staff and again to some degree, Douglas need more than 1 game to produce positive results..

This regime needs at least 3 years to turn this around.  What you want is to see improvement as the season goes on. How many of the players yesterday were rookies, 2nd yr players playing in a new scheme and on the road?

People also need to accept not every draft pick is going to develop and make it. Look at every team's draft picks. No GM hits 66-100% 

You want this to continue? Then go ahead and fire Douglas, and/or Salah, LaFleur. That'll guarantee another roster overhaul and another rebuild.  

Correct. And with this understanding, I’d be more than ok with sitting Wilson for a year or 2. Rodgers sat for 3. Three. Yea they had Farve but it obviously allowed him the luxury to learn the nuances of being an NFL QB. Let him sit for 2021. Invest in the OL next year. #1 draft pick in an OL position. Take best available. We need a guard, tackle, center. Sign a damn top FA OL guy. PROTECT your damn FQB or kiss your damn job goodbye JD. 

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Regardless of how you classify yourself or in what bucket of Jets fandom you belong, yesterday should've scared the sh*t out of you.

Zach Wilson getting hit all day and absolutely no running game. 

New England next week and the Broncos D after that... if we couldn't block anyone on Carolina...

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6 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I'm not as close to the cliff, looking down off it, as you are. But yeah I fail to see how fan complaints after losses have the slightest thing to do with the team's performance in said loss. 

Just for you, because I know you're one of a handful that reads this crap I babble here ;), I think I've been pretty fair with Douglas:

  • His trade transactions have been shockingly good on balance. He's done a good job of getting rid of players on expiring contracts whom he wasn't going to sign/extend in the first place. Especially when they were made with the team having no serious chance at a playoff spot (1-6 and 0-7, respectively) when the trades were made.
  • His first draft got a whole lot of early accolades, but that Jets draft class is looking as weak as any right now. There's still plenty of time for more of those picks to turn it around (they're 1 week into their 2nd seasons) but it's not looking good yet. Becton in particular; JD got so much credit from fans for making this great LT pick. In reality with a starting tackle hole, there were only two picks he could have made, and thus far it clearly looks like he made the wrong one. I liked the pick fine myself (though I'm the last one to rate/rank prospects), while acknowledging it's not like he pulled a rabbit out of his hat. It's true Wirfs is playing RT not LT, but at the level he's playing, there's no indication he'd be falling on his face if he were playing on the other side. It seems he's playing RT because Tampa already had a LT, not because he isn't good enough to play there. Becton's ceiling is higher; hopefully he realizes it when he gets back on the field. Then the genius move of trading down and still getting Mims? He's not looking too great either. One can feel he should be higher on the depth chart, but c'mon if he was crushing it in practices the coaches wouldn't keep him on the bench for spite. Then his next safety pick I think was just so he'd have a name to fill in so he could more seriously seek trade partners for Adams. If that's all the pick did, that adds to the value even if he almost never plays, and stinks when he does. 
  • JD's second draft looks much better (though in fairness, people were giving him high marks for his draft last year also, where the only picks they were so majorly sour on already on/after opening day were 4th rounders Morgan & Clark). 
  • It's opinion not fact yet, but I like that he didn't just sit tight on Darnold and hoard even more picks; he's got plenty of picks already, plus they're starting plenty of rookies & 2nd yr players as it is, plus without trading down he's already got almost an entire draft's worth of extra picks next year, too. Many wanted him to do just that, and I'm glad he didn't. Like in 2017: take the FQB when you've got the chance; you don't play BAP and take a safety (or this year, a TE) like a puss, and assume that in the next draft an equal or better QB will fall into your lap. That's like an older-generation GPS sending you down stupid back roads for an hour because the current ETA was a minute faster that way. There are legit arguments he should have drafted a different QB based purely on talent, whether right or wrong in the end; but that's only if the reason is if one feels the other QB is outright superior, not because of hoarding yet another extra draft pick (especially since we didn't know where that allegedly-better QB would get drafted until it actually happened with the benefit of hindsight). 
  • I'm ok with him trading up for AVT, but just ok. Honestly it's only a good move if he turns into a truly great one. As much of a hindsight-playing copout as that sounds, that's the truth. That draft class was so deep on the OL (with so few taken at that point, and none going at their projected higher slot), it's hard to justify a 1st rounder plus two more 3rd rounders for him unless he's that great. His week 1 performance was pretty bad, but in fairness he's just getting back to action and ffs it's just 1 week yet. I'm definitely no college film or draft junkie, so I'm just going by what others said, which is that he's supposed to be an "it" level talent at guard. If he's not "it" level performance, then this was poor allocation of high/higher picks. We'll see; hopefully he's all that on the field.
  • I still think not extending Anderson, and then turning down a draft pick for him, was a mindless mistake, even if only as a transaction judgment. RA's '19 numbers were down through mid/late Oct, and was excited to not get traded away, making that an ideal time to make him an extension offer in the Enunwa price range (give or take). If he turns that down, as well as anything near that $, then go back to that last top offer and make a deal. Waiting until after the trade deadline - and then further, until after he had some bounce back games - to even address Anderson's contract is classic Maccagnan-level GMing. In 5 years I'm not sure that dope extended one starter until his final game under contract had been played, giving away all the leverage a team has. Though not definitively provable, one could certainly argue if he re-signed Anderson he wouldn't have signed Corey Davis. IMO we should have both.
  • Last but not least... Considering the number of individual personnel attempts, and their cumulative investment amounts, his FA pickups on the OL have been a disaster. IMO he's gone the route of trying to get a little bit pregnant. He paid a significant amount (top 10 money) for a couple of those starters at RT and C; but in doing so he saved relatively little over available all-pro FAs (Conklin last year & Linsey this year). Then he signs starter-priced backups to make the total starter+backup cost the same as going for the gold in the first place. It's totally bizarre, honestly. 

So there are definitely some things I really like about Douglas, but in the end no matter where he started and no matter how many great trades he pulls out, in the end he's got to make good decisions on those he brings in with those new additional resources. If Wilson is as good as advertised it'll go a long way, though. If he doesn't get crippled & concussed repeatedly. 

^^The only poster who I'll automatically read every long post from.

Good post, Sperm. I have to agree with this assessment. JD definitely seems promising (his trades are boner makers), but he hasn't been perfect. I think he has a really good vision for how to build a team (like Idzik, but better), but much like Idzik, his draft picks and FA acquisitions absolutely have to pan out, or his vision is useless. Not every pick has to be a slam dunk, but he's gotta find impact players, especially in that 1st-3rd range. I appreciate his attempts to build the o-line, but so far the early returns there are... not great. There's still time for the o-line to gel, though, and it's not unusual for a line to struggle to start the season (especially with a change in blocking scheme).

Personally, I think I'll have my mind made up about Douglas somewhere between the end of this season and some time next season. 80% of that will depend on the improvement (or lack thereof) of his draft picks, his ability to protect Zach Wilson, and Wilson's own performance.

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1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Oh, wait, so you’re saying that Saleh and LaFleur need more time, ah, I get it.  

Like you gave Gase and Loggains all that time in 2019, right?

So that means they’ve got 3 weeks to get this thing fixed before the billboards go up and the planes start flying, yes?

SAR I

Uhmmm yeah so not sure who the YOU you are referring to maybe you can find some context to support that narrative though I highly doubt it, however Saleh nor LaFleur play OL which is what I was specifically talking about.  Oh and yeah our coaches do need more time as well before the pitchforks come out in my opinion.

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