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32 minutes ago, BroadwayRay said:

Seven of the guys JD drafted this year were starting on Sunday. And according to PFF, four of them played fairly well in their first NFL game. We as Jets fans should be well acquainted with the "suck balls" standard for GM drafting after watching Idzik and Maccagnan for all those years. JD has not yet hit that threshold.

It showed, minus Zach and the kicker rest of the team should be thrilled with fairly well, because they looked like hot garbage. First half of football was about as bad we’ve seen. His drafting needs to improve if he’s truly building this team through the draft. Period. 

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Wow, not a patient man, are ye? Half the league is 0-1.  And we beat our last-year's PPG by 2. Got better as the game went along. You guys suck as fans.

As usual, there was optimism regarding the new regime including, JD, Saleh and Wilson. But... My famous last words seem to hold up pretty well as usual. Same Owner (Johnson) = Same General R

I dont get your take. The Johnsons did everything you all wanted, they hired JD who you all loved and JD hired Saleh?  Are we really blaming Woody Johnson? Bad take. Woody doesnt sign FA's,

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8 hours ago, THE BARON said:

not patient ?  what team have you been watching and for how long ??? with respect to the current regime.  how many of jd's players are on the field and contributing ??? how many turned out to be excellent players ???

Not patient for THIS SEASON, THIS TEAM. Does Adam Gase coach the Jets? Rich Kotite? No. Half the team is rookies. 

What, did you really expect the team to be more than a team learning to play together in ITS first game. These Jets aren't the Jets of 2010 or 1986 or 1999. They are their own NEW thing.

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7 hours ago, The Crusher said:

First half of football was about as bad we’ve seen.

I disagree. The first half was bad. But compared to the last guy's Opening SEASON, this was way better, IMO. 

I've been through several decades Jets teams. This one gives me optimism because 1) the team got better as the game went along. 2) the QB took all his hits and didn't get injured and got better as the game went along.

3) I just can't believe any mature fan would be crying or overjoyed by winning or losing Game One of a new coaching regime. It's just unfair to everyone, the team, the people talking about the team. I could understand if it were Game Four. It's Game ONE.

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8 hours ago, phill1c said:

Wow, not a patient man, are ye?

  • Half the league is 0-1. 
  • And we beat our last-year's PPG by 2.
  • Got better as the game went along.

You guys suck as fans.

While you are not wrong can you blame the fans?  It’s been over 50 years without a season ending in heart break and only about 10 of those were seasons where the Jets were actually somewhat relevant.

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4 minutes ago, phill1c said:

WHat do the teams of 1986 have to do with today's team? What does the 2010 have to do with it? Nothing except their memories. The present team is not and shouldn't be saddled with past failures.

I don't blame the fans because it's not easy to be optimistic. But if you really can't be, then why are you calling yourselves "fans"? Get a team you can get behind, not one you just like to insult. It's bad enough when the team loses, but when it's 0-1 and they act like it's 0-50 years, well, that's just a needlessly  baselessly critical.

But I also realize that I'm not the arbiter of what makes a good fan. I just realize for me it's hard to listen to a loud stream of negativity after the first game. 

It’s called emotional investment year after year that just beats you down, if you don’t understand that your not a fanatic IE fan.

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1 minute ago, Lupz27 said:

It’s called emotional investment year after year that just beats you down, if you don’t understand that your not a fanatic IE fan.

It doesn't beat me down enough become a whiny, negative B!tch about it.

I mean, if you can't be positive take up Classic Cars. They never let you down...

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Just now, phill1c said:

It doesn't beat me down enough become a whiny, negative B!tch about it.

I mean, if you can't be positive take up Classic Cars. They never let you down...

don't get me wrong, I wanted Gase fired. I wasn't happy with 2-14. But this is not that team. And it's one thing to not like how a team is playing, but, really, to act like all the teams are the same team seems a little immature and very depressing.

What would people be like when the Jets win? the same...it's sad really.

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8 hours ago, THE BARON said:

All points well taken.  I did't directly blame Saleh.  His defense was the only thing that performed better than I expected.  And with a boatload of new players to boot.  But.  I repeat.  Same owner and same results.  Or, to be fair at this point, same owner same apparent results.   I stand by it. 

did you hate Woody after he hired Rex? or how about after the 2 AFCCG we went to under him? 

you can blame Idzik on Woody, but Mac? he was hired after Casserly did a GM search. i bet alot of us had no problem with Woody taking the advice from Casserly instead of making his own choice. 

we forget Todd Bowles was a hot candidate when we hired him. and Gase was on Chris. im sure Woody ok it but he wasnt hear to do the research . 

then i guess Chris hires the hot GM in JD who in turn hires the Hot HC in Saleh.

i dont know what else you want from a owner but to hire the hot candidate that everyone wants. 

and i dont know about you but i seen alot of hope yesterday.  

yeah the OL was really bad but i seen Wilson almost get killed and keep making plays. Wilson got sacked 6 times and hit 10 times and still threw for 258 yds and 2 TDs 1 INT.

Sam had 2, 6 sack games last year and threw for 230 0-0 and 120 0-2  see the difference? that is what i always said about Sam, if he was a good QB he would have shown us more with the OL and weapons we gave him. what Wilson did yesterday was show you that more i was talking about.

i seen a secondary that was suppose to get lit up from the fantastic trio of Darnold, Anderson and Moore. but that didnt happen. that Robbie TD was from a safety who was here for 4 days out of position.

i seen a HC who made halftime adjustments that worked. yeah the OL was really bad but there is a lot of hope i see. and im not killing Moore or JD for his drop pass in his FIRST GAME. and lets not all act like he was wide open and it hit his chest, that more drop was a tough catch. defender was all over him and Wilson make a great throw.

we all need to step away from the cliff, its just one game. 

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9 hours ago, Jet9 said:

OP is 100% correct. Zack sacked 6 times and I'm sorry but Carolina is a sh*t team and franchise. They're bad. Terrible loss. It will be hands across America for the new regime until week 6 because that's when Jets fans usually stop acting like Ranger and Yankee fans. 

They have a decent defense this year

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15 hours ago, THE BARON said:

Who hired the GM ?

Yeah I’m not buying this fruit of the poisoned tree stuff, whereby you remain silent about good players or seasons, but bad players or bad seasons are because of the owner.

The idea that most “good” owners are GM/HC savants is imaginary. e.g. The same stellar ownership that shrewdly hired Andy Reid after his Eagles career ended in disgrace was the one who OK’d and was thrilled to “steal” Herm Edwards from us, before hiring Todd Haley right after that.

The worst hiring complaints (the legit ones) by design were:

1. the years of lopsided HC/GM hires, saddling GM candidates with a HC most probably wouldn’t want, and then years later vice versa with a HC search.

2. leaving his brother in charge of GM/HC hiring, with a pair that was already headed in the wrong direction. Chris should have honestly admitted to Woody he couldn’t hire a GM/HC himself, and then hired a head of football operations type instead of extending Bowles/Maccagnan (and then only firing one of them a year after that because he felt he was too incompetent to hire a GM himself). I mean wtf is that? This is a $4BN enterprise, not a candy store, where if you go on vacation you leave cousin Midge in charge for a couple weeks. 

The GM and HC separately reporting to the owner thing was always way overblown, since the Jets were hardly unique in that setup. It’s not my preference, but it does prevent a bad GM from scapegoating his HC: after team failure let the owner hear it firsthand from the HC, too, and maybe it means they both need to go (and if you keep the HC, make damn sure it’s one that the best GM candidates would all have at the top of their short lists for HCs they’d want i.e. don’t fire Tannenbaum but still keep Ryan unless  it’s obvious every top GM candidate was flocking here specifically to rebuild teams for Rex, which wasn’t the case; not “if you don’t like him you can fire him after a year” which incentivizes a GM to keep it in his pants or continue to be saddled with a HC he hates). The crazy thing is, even with that setup after the 2018 season, CJ still let MM scapegoat Bowles anyway since he admitted he didn’t know what to do about it. The very thing it was there to avoid, and he did it anyway.

So there’s plenty to dislike there. That doesn’t therefore mean every loss is squarely on ownership. Douglas and Saleh were plenty qualified and sought after at the time of their hiring. So were other hires that didn’t work out. Most of the time they don’t work out, but that goes for every team. And when a team gets into such a rut of poor planning, it’s not so easy to get out of it even with solid hires. There were a number of Douglas missteps, but it’s not totally fair to assume any good GM would have still done all his good moves plus would have simply replaced his bad ones with still more good moves. Things don’t happen that way. 

Hopefully Douglas gets better at this instead of trying to prove how he’s so smart he can cherry-pick which bleh and/or obscure OL veterans will outperform their moderate contracts. The very green HC and coordinators will get better with experience. But if they don’t improve, as much as I don’t care for him, their collective failures won’t be because of Johnson; it will be of their own makings. 

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15 hours ago, THE BARON said:

As usual, there was optimism regarding the new regime including, JD, Saleh and Wilson.

But... My famous last words seem to hold up pretty well as usual.

Same Owner (Johnson) = Same General Results. 

What else has been common through Idzik, Mr. Coffee, Boles, Gase and now Mac & Saleh ???

Worst post ever

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15 hours ago, THE BARON said:

not patient ?  what team have you been watching and for how long ??? with respect to the current regime.  how many of jd's players are on the field and contributing ??? how many turned out to be excellent players ???

New coaching staff equals new team.

You can't take a running total of years of ineptitude and shoe horn that into this team. They are still learning to play as this team is fabricated.

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7 hours ago, phill1c said:

WHat do the teams of 1986 have to do with today's team? What does the 2010 have to do with it? Nothing except their memories. The present team is not and shouldn't be saddled with past failures.

I don't blame the fans because it's not easy to be optimistic. But if you really can't be, then why are you calling yourselves "fans"? Get a team you can get behind, not one you just like to insult. It's bad enough when the team loses, but when it's 0-1 and they act like it's 0-50 years, well, that's just a needlessly  baselessly critical.

But I also realize that I'm not the arbiter of what makes a good fan. I just realize for me it's hard to listen to a loud stream of negativity after the first game. 

well i hate to break it to you.....but it's kinda 0-52 years

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14 hours ago, peekskill68 said:

Two things led to losing yesterday -  the OL couldn't block and the DL couldn't get to Darnold.  Everything else is just noise...

The most intelligent post of the year..... Seems people don't seem to understand what it takes to have a good team. Yes you EVENTUALLY need good skill players, but until the trenches are in place, your team will pretty much suck...

This is on JD to fix... I'm giving him his plan, but if his plan doesn't work bargain hunting for OL, then he better show the ability to adjust his thinking and figure out how to make the OL better, not just through the draft and bargain hunting FA.

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7 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

It’s called emotional investment year after year that just beats you down, if you don’t understand that your not a fanatic IE fan.

Every fan "should" be emotionally invested, especially ones like me who are old enough to go back since this team was constructed. The team was weak, and needed a new HC in Weeb, and a new QB in JN. Those JETS weren't built in a day, and they needed 4 years once JN was bought to win the SB. Since then we all know what has transpired. I was always one who screamed at the TV, went nuts and had to have a room with sound proofing because nobody in my house wanted to listen to that every JETS Sunday. Well as I've gotten older, I've gotten softer because this kind of stuff doesn't bother me anymore. Take a chill pill, and relax, there are more important things in life to worry about than a football team. You either have faith or you don't on whether JD will get this right. You can't have it both ways, like a guy who sucks because he's always buying the wrong FA, and writing stupid contracts, or a guy who wants to build it from the ground up and might not be the best drafter. We need to give him and the new staff some time to develop this team. I want to see how many change their tune if he and Saleh take us to a SB.

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16 hours ago, THE BARON said:

not patient ?  what team have you been watching and for how long ??? with respect to the current regime.  how many of jd's players are on the field and contributing ??? how many turned out to be excellent players ???

You were thrilled when we hired the top GM available

Happier when we hired the top HC candidate available.

Thrilled to have a new QB, WR, OL, OC, DC etc

All hired by CJ, not Woody, but you get the point

Lose opening day by 5 points to a team favored by close to that and youre whining that Woody somehow lost the game.  

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7 hours ago, phill1c said:

I disagree. The first half was bad. But compared to the last guy's Opening SEASON, this was way better, IMO. 

I've been through several decades Jets teams. This one gives me optimism because 1) the team got better as the game went along. 2) the QB took all his hits and didn't get injured and got better as the game went along.

3) I just can't believe any mature fan would be crying or overjoyed by winning or losing Game One of a new coaching regime. It's just unfair to everyone, the team, the people talking about the team. I could understand if it were Game Four. It's Game ONE.

First half was epically bad for the offense, but I do agree that’s not as important as the team eventually improving. 
 

I agree that Zach getting better is fair reason for optimism. I share that and yes team got better as the game  went on except the line almost hit Zach a concussion late in the game. Zach showed he has the stuff, that’s for sure but couple more games  like this and we both know our conversations here will be,” Mike White sucks, Josh Johnson sucks, should have kept Morgan, should have signed a vet, should have drafted Fields because he’s more durable.”

We won two games last year, I see no issue with any fan being excited or overbites winning a game this year. Im Not judging anyone being frustrated with this team and even appreciate most of the overreaction to losing this game. 
 

The Jets have long used up any sort of understanding or patients from the fan base long ago. This,” it’s a new day stuff is cute until they keep losing games” Yet, you are 100% correct that it’s unrealistic to expect much more than we seen game one and overall it’s possible they improve as the season go’s on, but it’s just as realistic for nobody to believe it till they see it. 

 

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17 minutes ago, 68JET11 said:

The most intelligent post of the year..... Seems people don't seem to understand what it takes to have a good team. Yes you EVENTUALLY need good skill players, but until the trenches are in place, your team will pretty much suck...

This is on JD to fix... I'm giving him his plan, but if his plan doesn't work bargain hunting for OL, then he better show the ability to adjust his thinking and figure out how to make the OL better, not just through the draft and bargain hunting FA.

I’d add a third prong to that, though, for the coaching. If this current OL personnel doesn’t “get it” and start to click and it needs to man up on DLmen to protect the QB and open running lanes this year, so be it.

They probably needed all summer to work with the 5 starters so they wouldn’t look like this, but didn’t have it: 

  • Becton was hardly 100% all summer.
  • AVT missed weeks.
  • GVR split plenty of snaps because he was in a 3+ headed competition.
  • Fant started out in the covid protocol and then Moses split the starter time at RT, giving each half the snaps they needed. 
  • On top of his own blocking issues, McGovern was playing with different guards next to him along the way, while getting the snapping down with a rookie who was primarily in shotgun sets in college. 

Hey, it’s just one game yet, and we don’t get to see what they are in practices (good and bad). But if it doesn’t get any better in games and Wilson takes beatings like this every week, a lot more fans are going to rightly look back and say in terms of blocking scheme they should have known better to go in another direction from the start. 

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I detest Woody for a number of reasons, but I remain bullish on JD and RS. At my age SOJ is a real thing, but I kinda like some of the pieces on this team. I’m willing to wait until the halfway mark before I start the real bile.

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22 hours ago, THE BARON said:

But... My famous last words seem to hold up pretty well as usual.

Same Owner (Johnson) = Same General Results. 

You are 100% correct.  

In all professional leagues the competition starts in the owners-office.

While the Johnson's seem like nice folks, they are no different than Daniel Snyder or Michael Jordan -- incompetent owners.  

None of those franchises will ever have meaningful success until ownership changes.

 

 

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1 hour ago, 68JET11 said:

Every fan "should" be emotionally invested, especially ones like me who are old enough to go back since this team was constructed. The team was weak, and needed a new HC in Weeb, and a new QB in JN. Those JETS weren't built in a day, and they needed 4 years once JN was bought to win the SB. Since then we all know what has transpired. I was always one who screamed at the TV, went nuts and had to have a room with sound proofing because nobody in my house wanted to listen to that every JETS Sunday. Well as I've gotten older, I've gotten softer because this kind of stuff doesn't bother me anymore. Take a chill pill, and relax, there are more important things in life to worry about than a football team. You either have faith or you don't on whether JD will get this right. You can't have it both ways, like a guy who sucks because he's always buying the wrong FA, and writing stupid contracts, or a guy who wants to build it from the ground up and might not be the best drafter. We need to give him and the new staff some time to develop this team. I want to see how many change their tune if he and Saleh take us to a SB.

Faith?  Why should one ever have any faith in the NY Jets any year never mind this one?  Shake your old man fist elsewhere.

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The o-line played poorly Sunday of that there is no question.  Why they played that bad is the question.  As individuals are they poor players,  were they not coached well, did they not communicate amongst themselves during the game, or were the Panthers that much better?  I will give them the benefit of the doubt and see how they do in the next game.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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17 hours ago, THE BARON said:

As usual, there was optimism regarding the new regime including, JD, Saleh and Wilson.

But... My famous last words seem to hold up pretty well as usual.

Same Owner (Johnson) = Same General Results. 

What else has been common through Idzik, Mr. Coffee, Boles, Gase and now Mac & Saleh ???

Correlation does not equal causation.

To make this argument, we'd need examples where Woody has done or not done something to force moves by JD or bar moves by JD.

Do you have such examples? 

By my analysis this argument keeps coming up, but as 100% pure speculation with no supporting evidence.  I can't think of a move Woody stopped JD from making or forced JD to make related, especially, to this 2021 team/roster.  

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9 hours ago, doitny said:

did you hate Woody after he hired Rex? or how about after the 2 AFCCG we went to under him? 

you can blame Idzik on Woody, but Mac? he was hired after Casserly did a GM search. i bet alot of us had no problem with Woody taking the advice from Casserly instead of making his own choice. 

we forget Todd Bowles was a hot candidate when we hired him. and Gase was on Chris. im sure Woody ok it but he wasnt hear to do the research . 

then i guess Chris hires the hot GM in JD who in turn hires the Hot HC in Saleh.

i dont know what else you want from a owner but to hire the hot candidate that everyone wants. 

and i dont know about you but i seen alot of hope yesterday.  

yeah the OL was really bad but i seen Wilson almost get killed and keep making plays. Wilson got sacked 6 times and hit 10 times and still threw for 258 yds and 2 TDs 1 INT.

Sam had 2, 6 sack games last year and threw for 230 0-0 and 120 0-2  see the difference? that is what i always said about Sam, if he was a good QB he would have shown us more with the OL and weapons we gave him. what Wilson did yesterday was show you that more i was talking about.

i seen a secondary that was suppose to get lit up from the fantastic trio of Darnold, Anderson and Moore. but that didnt happen. that Robbie TD was from a safety who was here for 4 days out of position.

i seen a HC who made halftime adjustments that worked. yeah the OL was really bad but there is a lot of hope i see. and im not killing Moore or JD for his drop pass in his FIRST GAME. and lets not all act like he was wide open and it hit his chest, that more drop was a tough catch. defender was all over him and Wilson make a great throw.

we all need to step away from the cliff, its just one game. 

Let me focus on a point that I think is compelling.  I didn't blame Woody for the Rex hire.  I thought it was a great hire and I still love Rex.  He's in the top three of all time Jet coaches, IMHO.  What the problem was is this.

Woody didn't realize that Rex although being a good game coach and wonderful player's coach and fan's coach and media coach, was also an emotional reactionary.  Instead of keeping Rex on the field and away from the front office, Woody gave Rex a free hand to despoil the roster.  Tanny was a push over and Rex was allowed to wreck his own tenure.

A smart owner would have recognized what Rex was and what he wasn't and managed accordingly.

Opposite strengths and weakness with Mangini.   Good administrator, good draft guy, good roster guy, good organizer.  Poor in game coach due to lack of capitol experience.  Again... If Woody was a smart top admin, he would have made sure his GM backed Mangini up with very strong OC and DC.

There were avenues open to sustained success with both Magini and Rex but Woody didnt have the tools as the prime admin to manage them.

I DONT hate Woody.  I dont know him.

He is an inexperienced person with a lot of money that bought a toy. 

 

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20 hours ago, phill1c said:

Wow, not a patient man, are ye?

  • Half the league is 0-1. 
  • And we beat our last-year's PPG by 2.
  • Got better as the game went along.

You guys suck as fans.

STFU

50+ years of ineptitude and I'm amazed anyone still follows this stink fest.

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11 hours ago, phill1c said:

WHat do the teams of 1986 have to do with today's team? What does the 2010 have to do with it? Nothing except their memories. The present team is not and shouldn't be saddled with past failures.

I don't blame the fans because it's not easy to be optimistic. But if you really can't be, then why are you calling yourselves "fans"? Get a team you can get behind, not one you just like to insult. It's bad enough when the team loses, but when it's 0-1 and they act like it's 0-50 years, well, that's just a needlessly  baselessly critical.

But I also realize that I'm not the arbiter of what makes a good fan. I just realize for me it's hard to listen to a loud stream of negativity after the first game. 

Losing the first game had nothing to do with it.  Watching the offensive line (and the GM is supposed to be the guy for that) is what set me off.  They way they played was simply not defensible.  It has much less to to do about "needing time to gel" and far more to do with the quality of the manpower.   And if you go back and look at my posts leading up to the 2020 draft, you'll see I felt the Jets must draft an offensive line player, but should stay clear of Becton. 

If the line plays better as the season goes on, I'll own up to it, but they wont.  Not by much at least. 

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20 hours ago, phill1c said:

Wow, not a patient man, are ye?

  • Half the league is 0-1. 
  • And we beat our last-year's PPG by 2.
  • Got better as the game went along.

You guys suck as fans.

Maybe we do suck as fans, but I'm comfortable that the Jets (with the longest streak of not making the playoffs in the NFL) suck considerably more. 

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20 hours ago, THE BARON said:

As usual, there was optimism regarding the new regime including, JD, Saleh and Wilson.

But... My famous last words seem to hold up pretty well as usual.

Same Owner (Johnson) = Same General Results. 

What else has been common through Idzik, Mr. Coffee, Boles, Gase and now Mac & Saleh ???

It's the first game of the year. If this continues and the results are similar, then you have a point. Although the point is more directed at JD rather than the Johnsons who really have no input here other than hiring the GM's and coaches. So on to the source, JD.  I have been really disappointed, in particular, with JD's  assemblage of the OL.  As far as including Saleh in this conversation, that's pure lunacy. The OL has sucked last year and was equally as bad the previous year. The additions since then have been pedestrian: McGovern, Lewis, van Roten, Khlalil.  They havent or didnt play very well. Fact.  Word is still out on Becton. He has shown some promise but has also raised concerns.  The safer bet would have been Wirfs. JD traded a bunch to get AVT.   He's played 1 game. No camp. Who knows what we got.  JD spent 10M on Fant who ,again, has been average as the rest of his FA's and draft picks.  This is the biggest concern to me. JD was SUPPOSED to be a connoisseur in regard to the OL.  He has been Gase-like.  And his draft picks leave a lot to be desired. It's also way to early to make an educated assessment on JD at this point. It's going to take a few more years. BUT, it's not looking good thus far. 

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