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If we're being honest - are things going well? (Douglas era)


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Looks good on paper. More talent across the board. But that 2020 draft set us back big time.

And more importantly than adding talent is producing results. We need to see results in the W/L column, that’s what Joe Douglas’ job is.

Carolina is one of the worst teams on our schedule. People will be (rightfully) pissed off with a 3, 4, or 5 win season and Joe’s seat will get very warm. 

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Wow wow wow calm down pal.  Jabari Zuniga is ready to breakout

Was about to start ranting before i saw this post - and thought I can just borrow it      But for those preaching patience -- why don't you list WHAT has been going well... Tr

- Traded Jamal instead of compounding Mac's error.  - Cut bait on Sam once it became apparent he wasn't the guy, as opposed to continuing to trot him out there in hopes of him figuring it out.

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9 minutes ago, Paradis said:

This is everything, right here.

We just don't know...

and we fcking should by September 2021. He's held office for 2 years. 

2 years.

WHY don't we fcking know. You blew your load on the Mormon and still have no idea if you can protect him. I'm getting hot just talking about it. It's horsesh*t - this guy is making more in 1 year than I'll make over the next 10. He has one job.

I mean… he’ll be able to cut McGovern and Fant next offseason and then the real rebuild can begin.

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12 minutes ago, Guilhermezmc said:

So by this standards Mekhi Becton giving up 2-3 sacks per practice should've got him on the bench, right?

Wow.  You showed me.  

Like throwing INTs, and making catches, giving up sacks is only part of the guys job.  It isn't just practice.  Maybe he is a douche.  Maybe he was a dick or late to meetings.  Maybe he is running the wrong routes.  It's not hard to understand.  I am not one to act like the staff is infallible and not question them, but there certainly may be valid reasons to keep the kid on the bench.  If there is something behind the scenes, I appreciate them not telling us all the dirty laundry.

It's not like they are afraid to let people learn on the job.  They certainly gave Elijah Moore and AVT enough run despite missing all that time. 

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I think part of the problem is that the draft has become so popular that people spend months convincing themselves that they know which players are good and that a team is supposed to draft 4 all pros a year. This team was stripped to the bone and the only way it was going to be good this year is if every player they drafted over the past two years turned into stars in year one and two which is unrealistic.  I'm by no means a JD ball washer I actually hated the first draft but all this panic is about a year premature. 

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1 hour ago, joewilly12 said:

Most fans including myself were expecting better results yesterday. 

JD did a lot of moving and shaking many new faces. 

On a positive note last season  the NY Jets would have lost that game in the first half and never stood a chance in the 4th quarter. 

Losing with dignity.

An improvement worth celebrating?

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51 minutes ago, sourceworx said:

- Traded Jamal instead of compounding Mac's error. 

- Cut bait on Sam once it became apparent he wasn't the guy, as opposed to continuing to trot him out there in hopes of him figuring it out.

- Focused on the offense in the off-season. When was the last time THAT happened?

- Went after a top pass-rusher in free agency. If you're going to spend big money on free agents, spend it there. 

- Most importantly, the QB he picked looks like he might be for real.

JD isn't exempt from blame. His draft last year isn't looking great right now. It's perfectly fair to criticize that. But I'm willing to let him execute his plan. We can't keep firing guys the second something doesn't go our way.

Half the JD homer’s are literally hanging their hat on the Adams trade overlooking all the other abysmal failures

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1 hour ago, jeremy2020 said:

Look, JD had a plan. He's executing that plan. I'm starting to think we should execute him.

I'm fine that JD does not seem to be far enough along on his plan, but all the people who flip flopped from "JD needs six years to make the playoffs" to now "Should we fire him?" after 1 game are ridiculous. 

Last week, he couldn't be criticized and I got trashed for saying he shouldn't get a pass for this year. Now there's pitchforks. Make up your minds. 

Last years draft being a total flop so far at least needs to put off some sirens.

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1 hour ago, sourceworx said:

- Traded Jamal instead of compounding Mac's error. 

- Cut bait on Sam once it became apparent he wasn't the guy, as opposed to continuing to trot him out there in hopes of him figuring it out.

- Focused on the offense in the off-season. When was the last time THAT happened?

- Went after a top pass-rusher in free agency. If you're going to spend big money on free agents, spend it there. 

- Most importantly, the QB he picked looks like he might be for real.

JD isn't exempt from blame. His draft last year isn't looking great right now. It's perfectly fair to criticize that. But I'm willing to let him execute his plan. We can't keep firing guys the second something doesn't go our way.

Good post.  We were all excited about the approach this offseason, Week 1 shouldnt change that excitement.  It sucks last years draft is seemingly a wash but the team was so badly damaged it was always going to take 3 drafts to get it right.  This year was always going to suck, it was just about the youngsters getting better and giving you hope that you have a foundation to build around next offseason.  Nothing changed, not sure why we're letting overreaction Monday get to us, again.

 

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Way too early. I love the approach the Jets are taking with drafting players and actually playing them. 2020 draft is looking somewhat poor. I did not like the Becton pick at the time, was encouraged by what he did last year but that pick is looking iffy. I know people say he excelled at zone blocking in college but he seems to be really struggling with the pro version. Wirfs seemed an obvious pick.

Mims to my eyes is a good player. Personally I think Mims is Braylon Edwards. He is an introvert and socially awkward and that does not play well with many coaches as that can be viewed as lack of effort and drive.

Team dramatically change over the first 4 weeks in the NFL. At that point we will have a little better idea of what we are and what we will get out of guys.

Our FA pickups have not been awesome but I am and have never been a fan of FA at all because almost every single one is a veteran player that another team does not want and there are reasons for that. The bigger the name the bigger the risk and they almost never work out. 

I have some issues with Douglas.

He values the OL but IMO even with all he has done he has not done enough. I understand the AVT pick but only picking one OL was a mistake. Trading down and drafting 3 or 4 OL and TE may have been a better move. But he was viewed as a cant miss prospect, if that turns out to be true that is great.

But lots is still waiting to be written. I like Saleh and his philosophy and think we have a good vision for the future. And I think Wilson is the real deal which will be key. 

In terms of the zone blocking scheme, if it is really that difficult to learn we should consider using man and adjusting the offense around Wilson. You can't tell me that they can't incorporate many of the same concepts using man blocking at times.

When Rex was here he always started with some uber complicated defense and then simplified it. Maybe we do the same with the OL.

Just watching the game on Sunday you would think OL and DL were our weakest groups. 

 

 

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2 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Way too early. I love the approach the Jets are taking with drafting players and actually playing them.

i disagree. And so will you if Wilson gets David Carr'd... 

Offensive linemen
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Just now, Paradis said:

 

i disagree. And so will you if Wilson gets David Carr'd... 

Offensive linemen

Whats with the chart?

In terms of Zach, he is different. If the OL cannot be improved dramatically through scheme and adjustments I would not be opposed to sitting him and playing Josh Johnson. I think in some ways what Zach showed yesterday was better than anything Sam ever showed, and the #1 rule still HAS to be protect him first. Nothing else really matters this year.

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52 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

Are we though? Is that what ppl tell each other when it doesn't go well.

Sean McVay & Goff and the 2017 LA rams.... Anyone advocating for "hold the line" should at least look how they managed their Oline... why don't you tell me if they rolled the dice on rookies, and a bunch of 2nd team guys like Van Rotten and Fant.

Either end (youth or Peaked) of the talent/roster spectrum is foolhardy. 

What the **** do we have to do with the 2017 Rams?  The Rams had been unsuccessfully drafting offensive line for ages.  They had their RT, RG and LG on the roster.  They added John Sullivan, a fairly low level FA and Whitworth who was 36 and demanding $10M+ for years.  It turned out to be a good move, but don't act like you wouldn't be complaining about locking up all that money in a guy "that isn't going to be here by the time we are good." 

46 minutes ago, Paradis said:

This is everything, right here.

We just don't know...

and we fcking should by September 2021. He's held office for 2 years. 

2 years.

WHY don't we fcking know. You blew your load on the Mormon and still have no idea if you can protect him. I'm getting hot just talking about it. It's horsesh*t - this guy is making more in 1 year than I'll make over the next 10. He has one job.

Why should we know?   We are installing a new system and our two biggest pieces missed almost all of camp.  We added Moses who didn't play much.  I agree that is was a disappointment, but the idea that we should know everything about a team with a new staff after week 1 is kind of silly.  Complain away.  You are more likely to be correct than people acting like this plan is going to result in some great success, but like most of us are saying, it's pretty early.

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1 hour ago, kdels62 said:

Zach Wilson is nice and it looks like we might draft Tyler Linderbaum next year and that makes me emotional. 

If JD has hit on Wilson, and also on Saleh,  then those are the biggest picks for the job he was hired for. Heck, how does the Packers GM keep his job?. Any of you see Jordan Love even in a garbage time role play the other day? He looks worse than putting a HS QB on a pro team.

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19 minutes ago, Ian Fleming said:

Eh, we shouldn’t confuse people exploring the merits of the argument as support for it.

Ehh I was one of a few questioning odd signings on the online starting with Khalil to fant to van rotten to feeney. 
 

I was crucified for saying letting robby walk was silly.

I questioned the lack of depth in many positions. 
 
I questioned this having no real running back situation we find ourselves in with a  young qb

I questioned the no veteran qb backup decision 

Getting rid of Leo for eventually basically getting Ashyton Davis

I said the 2020 draft was bad in 2020. 
 

Listen, I hope I’m wrong because I take wins over being right everyday but after opening day I’m real worried this roster will embarrass us again. It’s clear on this board people are starting to question things to 

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Honestly, the Douglas era is still pretty rough and uneasy. More questions than answers. However, he's barely approaching the middle part of his contract. He's been here since May of 2019. So he's been here a little more than two years. This Jets team is NOT an overhaul. It takes time and we're seeing the complications of that transformation. But at the end of the day, this team is still on the RIGHT path and I couldn't be more satisfied with the job he's doing.

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20 minutes ago, Paradis said:

 

i disagree. And so will you if Wilson gets David Carr'd... 

Offensive linemen

With the Saints already locking up Lattimore and Ramczyk already that leaves Terron Armstead to be the odd man out, if he makes to FA and Joe Douglas don't give him the whole bank i will lose my sh*t. Great player and leader. Armstead at LT, AVT at LG, Tyler Linderbaum at C, Darian Kinnard at RG and Mekhi Becton at RT is a offensive line with some juice. 

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25 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What the **** do we have to do with the 2017 Rams?  The Rams had been unsuccessfully drafting offensive line for ages.  They had their RT, RG and LG on the roster.  They added John Sullivan, a fairly low level FA and Whitworth who was 36 and demanding $10M+ for years.  It turned out to be a good move, but don't act like you wouldn't be complaining about locking up all that money in a guy "that isn't going to be here by the time we are good." 

Why should we know?   We are installing a new system and our two biggest pieces missed almost all of camp.  We added Moses who didn't play much.  I agree that is was a disappointment, but the idea that we should know everything about a team with a new staff after week 1 is kind of silly.  Complain away.  You are more likely to be correct than people acting like this plan is going to result in some great success, but like most of us are saying, it's pretty early.

the point flew over your head like the star trek enterpise. Thats what the rams have to do with it.  

Don't point to two (potentially) over drafted Oline prospects and say - "Look...." it was a god damn U2 concert out there yesterday in the trenches. Now you add in some of the things that been like ehhhh, it's not all rose. 

I didn't say fire him. I just asked... Is it going well? I'd say the report card has quite a few question marks. And yes, i'm acknowledging the hand he was dealt.

Well managed teams have coped with less. 

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1 hour ago, BroadwayRay said:

What are you complaining about, exactly? Really curious, because for things to "not be going well," things have to be, um, going. We are one game into a 17-game season. Kind of like complaining about your race horse a second after the starting pistol is fired. So again, what are you complaining about other than the OL playing like sh*t in the first game or the Jets not drafting the guys you wanted?

They tell us everything is going to be different and nothing is different.  

Dysfunction, check.  Lack of preparation, check.  Dumb penalties, check.  Predictable playcalling, check.  Draft picks disappointing, check.  Free agents looking lazy, check.  Hyped training campers no-showing, check. Injured guys getting injured, check.  Uncompetitive play, check.  Laughingstock of the league, check. 

SAR I

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Looks like the Jets found a QB. A Bona -fide franchise QB. The game slowed down a bit in the 2nd half for him. Time to get this OC to fortify his protection and generate a run game.

This year was never about wins and losses, it’s about the development of Zach and this offense.

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Some of you, please don't be twitter wives. It's not as simple as Joe sucks or he's awesome. Or it's amazing or the worst.

I simply asked -- are we doing ok?...or area we telling ourselves we're doing ok... there's some things to wince at. 

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34 minutes ago, johnnysd said:

Whats with the chart?

In terms of Zach, he is different. If the OL cannot be improved dramatically through scheme and adjustments I would not be opposed to sitting him and playing Josh Johnson. I think in some ways what Zach showed yesterday was better than anything Sam ever showed, and the #1 rule still HAS to be protect him first. Nothing else really matters this year.

He’s making the connection carr is a quality qb who can never truly excel because the team around him never got built good enough 

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1 hour ago, SOJ said:

NY POST 

It’s clear who gets the most blame for Jets’ brutal weakness (nypost.com)

The Jets pass protection had to look familiar to Sam Darnold standing on the other sideline on Sunday. It was the same old story for the offensive line. They struggled against blitzes and stunts. They looked out of sync with each other. They gave up way to many free runners to the quarterback. All of it led to Zach Wilson getting sacked six times and hit four more times. If not for Wilson’s quick feet, it would have been nine or 10 sacks.

There are plenty of places to assign blame for this failure. But it starts with general manager Joe Douglas. When he was hired in June 2019, he set out as his top priority winning at the line of scrimmage. The Jets are still getting pushed around at the line of scrimmage. Douglas has had a long honeymoon here. He came in late in 2019, so he did not get any blame that season. Adam Gase and Sam Darnold took every bullet for 2020. And former GM Mike Maccagnan’s fingerprints were still all over the roster in those years and his mistakes became more and more evident.

But that is over. Gase is on a golf course. Darnold is a Panther. And the statute of limitations on blaming Maccagnan has run out. Douglas has had two drafts and two free-agent periods to address this roster, in particular the offensive line. No one is saying he should have built a Super Bowl contender in that time, but shouldn’t the offensive line look better? He’s used two first-round picks on the line and signed numerous free agents, including the starting center, right guard and right tackle on Sunday. Simply put, this is Douglas’ handiwork. Right now, it does not look good. It is too soon to judge rookie Alijah Vera-Tucker, but he had a rough debut, allowing six pressures, according to PFF. Last year’s first-round pick Mekhi Becton had a shaky training camp and had a few rough moments Sunday before suffering a knee injury. When it comes to Connor McGovern, Greg Van Roten and George Fant, ask yourself this: Do you want these guys to be starters in 2022? Probably not. That is all you need to know. And Douglas signed Morgan Moses in June, which looked like a good move, but Moses could not even beat out Fant in camp.

Douglas’ failures on the offensive line were the story on Sunday and figure to be in other games this season. Protecting Wilson needs to be paramount. The Jets looked incapable of it Sunday. That needs to get fixed … quick.

2. With all the focus on how bad the pass protection was, it got lost a bit on Sunday how bad the Jets were at running the ball. All offseason we have heard about the Shanahan offense that Mike LaFleur would be using and how it is predicated on the run. On Sunday, the Jets averaged just 2.6 yards per rushing play. That is not going to get it done. It is hard to fault the backs. They were getting hit as soon as they touched the ball.  According to PFF, the Jets averaged 0.2 yards before contact per rush. The Jets used the committee approach at running back with Ty Johnson, Tevin Coleman and Michael Carter. The longest run of the day was 12 yards by Johnson.

I do not know about anyone else but it looked a lot like last years OL trying to handle simple stunts, men running free, 6 sacks and 4 more hits.... 

JD and the coaches own this!  Wth BB losing yesterday and his propensity for screwing with rookie QB heads, gotta figure a lot of stunts and zero blitzes coming... hope wilson's health ins is paid up, sigh. 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

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41 minutes ago, JiFapono said:

Good post.  We were all excited about the approach this offseason, Week 1 shouldnt change that excitement.  It sucks last years draft is seemingly a wash but the team was so badly damaged it was always going to take 3 drafts to get it right.  This year was always going to suck, it was just about the youngsters getting better and giving you hope that you have a foundation to build around next offseason.  Nothing changed, not sure why we're letting overreaction Monday get to us, again.

 

Yep. They're a very young and inexperienced team with a new coaching staff (that's also pretty young as well). Anyone who thought there wouldn't be growing pains early on this year was fooling themselves. The hope is to see gradual improvement over the course of the season. 

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I think we're finally, finally on the right path.  Now it comes down to the guys that got picked playing to their potential and filling in where they effed up.  They usually get 4 years or so to prove they should be the guy picking the people, so with his first year being a wash and second year being covid, it's hard to give an easy evaluation.  I'd like to see the guys he picked pan out but I think we need to sit back and wait a bit before freaking out.  I'll complain when I see nothing happening.  These guys at least are making changes that make sense and I see the logic behind many.  Once the season gets going we'll know more.  4 games at least.

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